Can't compete with immigrants.

[fellowtraveller]

which is why they have a more serious problem, a declining population and very little immigration...if we cut immigration we'd have the same problem...

agreed.

Immigrants have been and will remain the lifeblood of the economy.

[Argus]

agreed.

Immigrants have been and will remain the lifeblood of the economy.

Immigrants have been, and remain a drain on the economy. Even the government doesn't try to show otherwise nowadays.

[fellowtraveller]

These people who cannot speak English, ARE hired for positions, they are in many cases PREFERED to the local Canadian population (becuae they never talk back to the boss and are not political at work), and have seen someone first hand get fired because of his English skills.

That is timely, I was just reading job ads in an Edmonton paper and several said a prerequiste was that you must be fluent in English. I don't think I'd ever seen that before.

Would you like a career in aprtment building management, housing included, several openings and your wife would have a job too?

[fellowtraveller]

Immigrants have been, and remain a drain on the economy. Even the government doesn't try to show otherwise nowadays.

How so?

Refugees start out as a drain, then become economic assets.

The bulk are actual immirgarnts and arrive here with skills, education and often money. Many Canadians could not possibly pass the qualifications to emigrate to their own country, and these people do.

Maybe you are referring to immigrants to Quebec, who are selected first because they speak French?

[Argus]

How so?

Refugees start out as a drain, then become economic assets.

The bulk are actual immirgarnts and arrive here with skills, education and often money. Many Canadians could not possibly pass the qualifications to emigrate to their own country, and these people do.

Maybe you are referring to immigrants to Quebec, who are selected first because they speak French?

First, only a small minority of immigrants, something like 20% are qualified due to skills. The rest are refugees and various family members. Second, they all start out as a drain. Getting established, as various government reports have shown, is not as easy as it once was. And getting a job which has a small pay cheque makes one an economic drain, not a surplus. People with low incomes, esp with families, pay no taxes. Instead they consume services; ie, health care.

If you go into the public housing areas of any major city with a lot of immigration you find the united nations. These are the immigrants who don't even get low-paying jobs, but are content to live on welfare. After all, life on welfare here is far, far and away better than ordinary life in most third world countries.

[Smallc]

Maybe you are referring to immigrants to Quebec, who are selected first because they speak French?

Quebec now again has growing anglo and franco populations. It's a very good sign that there should be good things coming in Quebec's future.

[Michael Hardner]

And getting a job which has a small pay cheque makes one an economic drain, not a surplus. People with low incomes, esp with families, pay no taxes. Instead they consume services; ie, health care.

You have said this before, but you're taking out some economic factors in the low wage earner:

They're consuming goods, providing a domestic market for goods and services and they're making money for whomever is paying them the low wage, as well as providing services at a cheaper rate.

[wyly]

First, only a small minority of immigrants, something like 20% are qualified due to skills. The rest are refugees and various family members. Second, they all start out as a drain. Getting established, as various government reports have shown, is not as easy as it once was. And getting a job which has a small pay cheque makes one an economic drain, not a surplus. People with low incomes, esp with families, pay no taxes. Instead they consume services; ie, health care.

more BS...Canadian Immigration figures 2008..for those gaining permanent residency 45.8% are defined as economic migrants, 39.4% are family members(do you have issues with immigrants having families or do you prefer the single male only workers of our Railroad building days)only 8.3% were refugees...as for no taxes I know millionaires that pay no taxes...

If you go into the public housing areas of any major city with a lot of immigration you find the united nations. These are the immigrants who don't even get low-paying jobs, but are content to live on welfare. After all, life on welfare here is far, far and away better than ordinary life in most third world countries.

continued BS, you have bigoted biases with no backing for, the truth is immigrants take low paying jobs Canadians don't want, if fact many work two jobs 6-7 days a week to support their families here as well as the families they leave behind...and most people start out life in rental units even Canadians...

[Bonam]

more BS...Canadian Immigration figures 2008..for those gaining permanent residency 45.8% are defined as economic migrants, 39.4% are family members(do you have issues with immigrants having families or do you prefer the single male only workers of our Railroad building days)only 8.3% were refugees...as for no taxes I know millionaires that pay no taxes...

Females can work too, not only males, it's the 21st century if you haven't noticed. If people are moving over as a family, all adult members of that family should qualify on economic grounds, having one guy qualify and bring over his whole clan which is not gonna work is not the best policy.

continued BS, you have bigoted biases with no backing for, the truth is immigrants take low paying jobs Canadians don't want, if fact many work two jobs 6-7 days a week to support their families here as well as the families they leave behind...and most people start out life in rental units even Canadians...

What are these jobs "Canadians don't want"? Jobs that people don't want is a myth, especially in the middle of economic downturn where many people lost their jobs and are looking for a way to stay afloat.

[mikedavid00]

I have no need to make up information. You are simply too intellectually lazy to even look into the background of positions you take so strongly.

Exactly.

That's what it always comes down to. People who hold this emotional attatchment to immigration and support it, have never read one lick of research or hard numbers regarding the effects of immigration.

One thing I would disagree with you with is that immigrants do not get hired based off their poor language skills. This is true in some cases and might be true in Ottawa.

But come to Toronto and you will be AMAZED at some of the people you will find in the work place here. They may not be the most senior people, but they are vastly, vastly taking office jobs from Canadians. Especially on the accounting side. Extremely broken English. ALWAYS having to say 'what?' 'sorry?'. You just cannot make out what these guys are saying. They make NO effort to articulate or speak clearly. And one thing anyone who works with them know is they avoid working like the plague. You cannot email them a task. They prolong everything and try to avaid responsibility.

I could spend from morning to night giving story after story about these people taking jobs. I had one Jamaican manager it Microsoft. He got fired. I could barely understand when he spoke. His manager was 'Lebanese' but he was from Montreal and was billingual so he got the job. Remember, in Canada we hire based off language (Mandrin and Russian included). Then the manager to replace the Jamaican was Australian! Immigrant, after immigrant, after immigrant. Meanwhile we were sitting with an 8% unemployment rate at the time and had LOCAL Canadians looking for work.

Most office jobs do not require any sort of real talent. Anyone can do them. They require actually being culturally adapted, and language/communication. However over here, those have been thrown out the window.

Oh yes.. I wonder if I can dig up that email that went out at the microsoft building ASKING PEOPLE TO NOT WASH THEIR FEET IN THE SINK. Someone saw it and got disgusted and complained to HR formally.

These animals are hired in abundance. They are aliens with their alien ways. They chew with mouth open, wives pack them lunches at work, their food SMELLS the office and everyone is too afraid to tell them not to eat at their desk, they talk LOUDLY in their languages on the phone seemingly all day and everyone is too afair to tell them to shut up, they say the wrong things in email, they are ALWAYS doing what it takes to get out of doing a task, they are ALWAYS leaving early for one family even or another.

They are simply aliens on Canadian soil artificially inflating school enrolment criterea, housing and rent prices, retail lease prices, and they are taking jobs and getting away with it while I sit here shoved in the corner looking looking for a job and I can't even get my resume even viewed.

The Canadian people never asked for this, we never had any input on this policy, and the politicians have turned this into a political issue at MY expense.

This is my country as much as it is yours, and the immigration policy belongs to us, it's our policy and we have the right to decide who comes into OUR country.

But the politicians don't see it that way.

[mikedavid00]

Immigrants have been, and remain a drain on the economy.

And don't get me started on healthcare. We had to deal with the medical system last year. And let me tell you. Wow. Our hospitals are TURLY foreign national immigrant care centers. I'll never forget what I saw there.

[Smallc]

And don't get me started on healthcare. We had to deal with the medical system last year. And let me tell you. Wow. Our hospitals are TURLY foreign national immigrant care centers. I'll never forget what I saw there.

I'd still like to know what you saw....and you haven't said yet.

[M.Dancer]

I'd still like to know what you saw....and you haven't said yet.

I'm guessing a doctor...

[Smallc]

I'm guessing a doctor...

buh dum bum....

[Bonam]

Maybe it was a colored doctor

[wyly]

Females can work too, not only males, it's the 21st century if you haven't noticed. If people are moving over as a family, all adult members of that family should qualify on economic grounds, having one guy qualify and bring over his whole clan which is not gonna work is not the best policy.

and who said females can't work? only one needs a job to qualify many once they arrive have both parents working asap, these people are generally harder working than Canadians putting in long hours for low pay...Canadians have this delusion they are the hardest working people on the planet, sorry the average Canadian has no concept of what real hard work is...

What are these jobs "Canadians don't want"? Jobs that people don't want is a myth, especially in the middle of economic downturn where many people lost their jobs and are looking for a way to stay afloat.

it's no myth I know a number of employers who could not find Canadians to work at minimum wage jobs and had to recruit from India to get help working at minimum wage jobs...why now that there is a downturn in the economy should these people hire Canadians who turned their noses up at these jobs before, people who will be gone for better paying jobs the second the economy recovers...

[KeyStone]

Females can work too, not only males, it's the 21st century if you haven't noticed. If people are moving over as a family, all adult members of that family should qualify on economic grounds, having one guy qualify and bring over his whole clan which is not gonna work is not the best policy.

What are these jobs "Canadians don't want"? Jobs that people don't want is a myth, especially in the middle of economic downturn where many people lost their jobs and are looking for a way to stay afloat.

Working the 9-5 shift at Tim Horton's in downtown Toronto.

It's hard work. The pay is not great and living in Toronto is damned expensive.

[Bonam]

and who said females can't work? only one needs a job to qualify many once they arrive have both parents working asap, these people are generally harder working than Canadians putting in long hours for low pay...Canadians have this delusion they are the hardest working people on the planet, sorry the average Canadian has no concept of what real hard work is...

How hard one works is pretty much determined by their job and environment and what is expected of them. Few people, of any national origin, work harder than they have to. It's funny how you are convinced that immigrants work super hard, mikedavid is convinced they are lazy slackers, and neither of you have any way to back those statements up. Next... pay, in Canada, is commensurate with position. Further, being the "hardest working people" is certainly not a claim I have ever heard made by Canadians. Everything you just said in that paragraph is false.

[Bonam]

Working the 9-5 shift at Tim Horton's in downtown Toronto.

It's hard work. The pay is not great and living in Toronto is damned expensive.

Toronto is not that expensive, you can afford to live there on minimum wage, you can even afford Vancouver on minimum wage. The whole minimum wage budgeting discussion has been beat to death in another thread.

What's so bad or hard about working at Tim Horton's? I see plenty of people working at Tim Hortons and other comparable positions, both of European Canadian descent and otherwise.

[Bonam]

Working the 9-5 shift at Tim Horton's in downtown Toronto.

It's hard work. The pay is not great and living in Toronto is damned expensive.

Toronto is not that expensive, you can afford to live there on minimum wage, you can even afford Vancouver on minimum wage. The whole minimum wage budgeting discussion has been beat to death in another thread.

What's so bad or hard about working at Tim Horton's? I see plenty of people working at Tim Hortons and other comparable positions, both of European Canadian descent and otherwise.

Usually these types of jobs are filled by young people working part shifts to pay for college, things like that. That is very appropriate and the way it should be.

[mikedavid00]

mikedavid is convinced they are lazy slackers, and neither of you have any way to back those statements up.

I have countless emails from my old work emails, and my wife that she sends me laughing about it.

Dealing with immigrant in workplace. (Based on a TRUE story... hey.. I would never do something low like actually copy and pasting work emails

"Hey Lee, can you please send me the x numbers for x tender that I need to mail out tommorow"?

"Do you need now?"

"Well by the end of day"

"I need leave 3 today for airport.."

"Can I get tommorow morning?"

"Let me ask chyrel" (the manager. a clevery 'hiding' technique to get out of work)

"chyrel says that she can give you tommorow"

"Ok. But I'll be needing it by noon"

(no response).

(later that afternoon)

"Hey chyrel did Lee tell you about the numbers I needed by noon?"

"Oh you need it for noon?"

"Yes I told him that but maybe he didn't recieve the email and left"

"Oh well Ok.. one sec.. here's the number 452.23." (manager simply logged in to Acpac and copied the number).

Dealing with Canadian:

"Heya! Can I get that x number?"

"Here it is.. 452.23"

"Thanks bro! Let me know when you guys are going for lunch"

"We're taking off soon lets meet at the elevators"

The first is example is the HELL that we have to go through on a REGULAR basis with these people. It's like PULLING TEETH it's SO FRUSTRATING to deal with such fail, such lazy, lazy, work ethic. I can't stand it! It annoys me SO much! I know a lot of people here do not work at all or do not work in the private sector or are not near immigrants anywhere near the amount I am, but DAMN they are SUCH LOUSY WORKERS (with a few exceptions).

[Bonam]

I have encountered many examples of both of those scenarios (the good and the bad) from both Canadians and immigrants. If you want to make a definitive statement about work habits of certain groups, you need statistical evidence, or, lacking that, a well reasoned theory of why you believe your statement to be true. Anecdotal evidence, on the other hand, is not sufficient, as can be clearly seen by the contradiction between your and wyly's experiences with immigrants.

[Visionseeker]

Hey Mikedavid00,

You should apply to the OPP. I here they have an opening north of London. Some guy name Vu Pham was felled in the line of duty. No doubt because he was lazy and inarticulate... Not. People like you make me sick.

Not too long ago, I was on a board that promoted a recently hired black woman in an internal competition. Her test score was the highest ever registered in the 3 years the test has existed and at the interview, she nailed every question. Add to this her superior performance in all measured variables in the work place; she made it an easy decision to offer her the job because she earned it.

On a Friday night two weeks after the announcement was made, I was at a pub where a number of subordinates often gather. One of them had the temerity to come right up to me and vocally proclaim that the spot was awarded "to satisfy diversity in the workplace" for the benefit of a wide audience. As the room stood still my mind raced as the professional in me screamed IGNORE while the humanist in me demanded a retort such as: "if diversity were our primary concern, we'd let you go as we already have too many assholes". But I managed to compromise and state: "you are entitled to your uniformed opinion."

Last week, the individual was suspended subject to a hearing (read: fired) after calling the promoted woman a "coon" in public. I, for one, will not miss him.

[whowhere]

No offense you are young and in Winnipeg. A place that does not represnt what 'really goes on' in Canada.

I would consider myself to be more Canadian than most here because I am truly in touch first hand with life in the private sector in Canada.

Let's get some things straight first.

These people who cannot speak English, ARE hired for positions, they are in many cases PREFERED to the local Canadian population (becuae they never talk back to the boss and are not political at work), and have seen someone first hand get fired because of his English skills.

Secondly, my wife right now works at a company in the private sector. This company has offices all over the world. The company WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY, to bring over some lady from the China office, AND HER FAMILY, to come work here in Canada. She does absolutely nothing all day, gets her own office, and took a job that a Canadian could have worked. Her first week there, she sent a CANADA WIDE email with this poem about Diversity! Then the head regional director emailed back and said 'wow that's a great poem Lee'. Then when Canada one the hockey game in the Olympics, she sends another CANADA WIDE email talking about 'even though I am China, I welcom Canada as my team'. PEOPLE WERE LIKE WHAT???

Her company WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY TO FILE IMMIGIRATION PAPERS TO BRING HER AND HER FAMILY OVER for a silly office job that is a waste and requires no talent. Does she do accounting? No. Payroll? No. What does she do all day? NOTHING. One of 'those' positions that only a few here with private sector office experience would understand. At LEAST they could have given this job to a Canadian. I mean, where the HELL are our immigration policies to allow these sorts of games to go on in this economy when our own brothers and sisters need work. I NEED WORK.

My gov't FLOODS the job market. I am an A+ interview. I've been told by recruiters that my resume is the best they have ever seen. My study is filled with certs and certificates. 5 of them including the college diploma. I have 8 years experience. I've been at NINE -- 9.. yes 9 different companies and have vast experience.

Don't anyone lecture me on how to do a good resume or interview.

There are nothing here but a bunch of tired, old hacks that are disconnected from the real world. Here is what I get told get a job:

-'Contact companies directly'

-'Improve your resume'

-'Improve your interview skills'.

I got news for you guys - THIS ISN'T 1986 ANYMORE. GET WITH THE TIMES!

The real problem is I have HUNDREDS of people from other countries competing with me for jobs. My last 6 week contract, I was the token white guy. The programmers where 2 Russians, and 3 Chinese people. I had to wear HEADPHONES to block out the language.

Upstairs, where the Canadians were (project managers and such), they kept telling how BAD they were and how they didn't understand anything and didn't understand emails. These guys were trainwrecking bad.

And who was RUNNING that development department? A muslim Pakistani with a beard with his kids in an Islamic school as he SHUT THE DOOR and started SINGING PRAYERS in his office.

So dont lecture me on how to get a job or what the status of the work place is. You guys have NO idea. I can sit here for HOURS telling story after story after story about how we lose jobs CONSTANTLY to these people who cannot speak English and have just landed in Canada. People LOVE hiring immmigrants. They work for less, don't start politics, and hey.. as far as actual skill? Let's be honest, VERY FEW employers hire off that.

The REAL REASON I cannot get a job is becuase:

1 - There are NO JOBS open

2 - When there is, the resumes FLOOD the mail server and mine gets lost.

Now WHY is the resume inbox flooded with hundreds of resumes? (my last job 80 resumes). Becuase OUR GOV'T is HELL BENT on letting these people FLOOD into our country when we DO NOT have jobs for them. This has become a political issue and is completely ILLOGICAL. There is NO financial beneftis to immigration. If there was, so many small businesses wouldn't be going under right now. Immigrants do NOT spend into the local economy and drive up HOUSING prices for the rest of us creating housing bubbles and forcing us to take out mortgages WAY MORE than what we should be making ALL OF US POOR.

I suggest people here leave the old 1986 'Just improve on your interview skills' nonsense in the past. This is a new ara, a new day, foreign languages ARE being spoken at the workplace in Canada. There ARE 'chinese', 'indian', and especially 'russian' ghettoiesation directly in the workplace where they speak their own language and have 'taken over' departments (I have seen this first hand.. you wont believe it till you see it.. in order to work in the dept, you must speak Mandarin, Russian, etc. It will even say on the job posting).

Leave your old hack media beleifs on how the private sector works behind you. The Canadian market place is simply FLOODED with too many employees, not enough jobs, and too many of us looking for work with our palms out just begging for something.

The thing is, the only people beggining for a job should be myself and other Canadians, NOT 80 other foreign nationals who landed 2 years or 2 months ago.

This is INSANE what is going on in this country and it's directly effecting my well being and quality of life.

You are absolutely right. You have to realize the genie is out of the bottle and there is no political force to stop it.

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/60.htm

And The Children Shall Lead

KIRK: That could be what destroyed him.

SPOCK: Possible, Captain. Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth.

MCCOY: Or by misleading the innocent.

KIRK: Spock, they're not the alien beings. They're children being misled.

SPOCK: They are followers. Without followers, evil cannot spread.

KIRK: They're children.

SPOCK: Captain, the four hundred and thirty men and women on board the Enterprise and the ship itself are endangered by these children.

KIRK: They don't understand the evil that they're doing.

SPOCK: Perhaps that is true, but the evil that is within them is spreading fast, and unless we can find a way to remove it

KIRK: We'll have to kill them.

I suspect the only ones drumming the support of Canada's immigration whoredome are those who are insulated from the onslaught of the evil immigration policy. Canada doesn't need immigrants. If Canada requires immigrants it's because Canada is moving towards communism and communism requires a divide between the people and the people who make the decisions. The country's only point is to serve the elite at the expense of the people. Canadians have no way to stop the evil Conservatives from wrecking Canada. The fact is if Canadians were not so inwardly ugly as a people Canada wouldn't have gone down the Road of immigration. The Garbage boomers with their hand out for a pension check are to blame 100%

David is right, the Trash who control the decisions as to who gets employed favors immigrants over Canadians. I have seen this first hand and experienced it first hand. All I can say to those people enjoy your fleeting heaven while it lasts. Their money and their vanity is not going to save them from being expunged out of the Book of Life.

I recoginized something was amiss twenty years ago, so I evaluated and assessed Religion and History to draw an acute understanding. There is no value in immigrants. The Immigration Policy is the Conservatives and the Liberals Playing God. Immigrant are equal to when the people were building a tower to heaven to honor God after Noah's ark. God didn't approve, so he scattered the people around the world so they wouldn't understand each other and they all spoke differently languages.

Odd sounds like pockets of Canada. Go to sections of Toronto and there are immigrants who don't understand English. What is the value of these people? God did it to confuse the people to NOT build the tower to heaven. Bringing Immigrants and dumping them onto the Canadian population accomplishes what?

AS spock said, Evil cannot spread without followers. The Conservatives and Liberals are indeed Evil doers. The Canadian people who make up the business segment are also themselves the evil doers. If you read through this thread the evildoers indeed have their followers.

[bush_cheney2004]

.....AS spock said, Evil cannot spread without followers. The Conservatives and Liberals are indeed Evil doers. The Canadian people who make up the business segment are also themselves the evil doers. If you read through this thread the evildoers indeed have their followers.

Dude...Mr. Spock was a Vulcan.