Racism on the reserve

[g_bambino]

M.Dancer hates his kids...now g_bambino is a racist.

eyeball will say anything to avoid looking stupid, it seems.

[c/e]

Edited February 19, 2010 by g_bambino

[eyeball]

The latter being the result of the former does not in any way separate the two from each other; the bearing of the policies is intrinsically tied to whether or not people decide to enforce them.

Yes, but its the fact they can decide to enforce them that allows their policies to come to bear. You're tying things in a certain given direction - that the inherent racist attitudes of the leaders compels the Indian Act to give them the heavy hand they need to enforce their policies. Why you're doing this appears to be intrinsically tied to somehow proving I am blaming native racism on the evil white man. Of course that's intrinsically tied to your conviction that I'm a self-loathing, terrorist-loving, American-hating, bleeding-heart left-wing, tin-foiled loon isn't it?

The Kahnawake leaders have obviously chosen to enforce them, making a "race based decision" as part of their heavy-handed leadership.

You mean as a result of it not a part. I think we've got enough of your double entendres on our hands to deal with right now thanks.

which you have said is the fault not of the leaders themselves and their free will to make decisions, but of an Indian Act that can't reign in the evidently inate racism of Kahnawake heads.

I haven't said a thing about what the Indian Act can or can't reign in. I've only talked about what it empowers band leaders to do, which is to govern...with a lamentably heavy hand, and how generations of this has suppressed the power ordinary natives have to do anything about it.

The leaders were free to decide the way they wanted to because of the Act, not in spite of it - which is probably what the people would do hence the need for the Act in the first place, as a tool of colonial oppression.

Edited February 19, 2010 by eyeball

[g_bambino]

I haven't said a thing about what the Indian Act can or can't reign in.

The leaders were free to decide the way they wanted to because of the Act...

Watching you utter such contradictions with full seriousness is truly a wonderous event.

[eyeball]

Watching you utter such contradictions with full seriousness is truly a wonderous event.

If Ottawa could have used the Act to stop this decision don't you think they would have?

The fact remains, you have repeatedly tried to put your words into my mouth and haven't even come close to making it clear why.

[g_bambino]

If Ottawa could have used the Act to stop this decision don't you think they would have?

I've never been concerned with the Indian Act. It's you who's all along, and just now once again, pointed to that document at the root of the problem here, rather than the Mohawk band leaders, and the accommodating, hand-wringing politicians, Human Rights commissars, and media - all hypocrites - themselves.

The fact remains, you have repeatedly tried to put your words into my mouth and haven't even come close to making it clear why.

On the contrary, the fact that remains is that you have repeatedly tried to deny the words you yourself typed out, despite contradicting yourself in the process.

[+]

Edited February 19, 2010 by g_bambino

[eyeball]

I've never been concerned with the Indian Act.

Obviously.

It's you who's all along, and just now once again, pointed to that document at the root of the problem here, rather than the Mohawk band leaders, and the accommodating, hand-wringing politicians, Human Rights commissars, and media - all hypocrites - themselves.

That's right, I pointed to our hypocritical government's Indian Act then the Mohawk leaders who used it. Up until now you've aways pointed at the leaders then the Act. You finally seem to be getting that straight at least.

On the contrary, the fact that remains is that you have repeatedly tried to deny the words you yourself typed out, despite contradicting yourself in the process.

Show me where you mean, in the actual words I used not your's.

[g_bambino]

Up until now you've aways pointed at the leaders then the Act.

No, I only ever pointed at the people involved, never the Indian Act.

Show me where you mean, in the actual words I used not your's.

Can't, ATM, as MLW software is malfunctioning and won't give me the urls for your posts.

[charter.rights]

Obviously.

That's right, I pointed to our hypocritical government's Indian Act then the Mohawk leaders who used it. Up until now you've aways pointed at the leaders then the Act. You finally seem to be getting that straight at least.

Show me where you mean, in the actual words I used not your's.

All your posturing aside, the Mohawks did not use the Indian Act to make their citizenship laws. They are using the Great Law as the basis for prescribing who can live on their territory. It has nothing to do with race as I have pointed out on many occasions and everything to do with their nationality and sovereign rights.

The Mohawks are not Canadians. And only Mohawks, and those that have complied with the immigration requirements of the Great Law are permitted at Kahnesetake. Many haven't. and after notice, they are being asked to leave immediately, or be deported.

Honestly, I can;t understand why people refuse to understand that.

[eyeball]

All your posturing aside, the Mohawks did not use the Indian Act to make their citizenship laws. They are using the Great Law as the basis for prescribing who can live on their territory. It has nothing to do with race as I have pointed out on many occasions and everything to do with their nationality and sovereign rights.

The Mohawks are not Canadians. And only Mohawks, and those that have complied with the immigration requirements of the Great Law are permitted at Kahnesetake. Many haven't. and after notice, they are being asked to leave immediately, or be deported.

Honestly, I can;t understand why people refuse to understand that.

I understand what you're saying, but doesn't the Indian Act enable native government's power similar to the way our government's power is enabled by the act of another government?

[charter.rights]

I understand what you're saying, but doesn't the Indian Act enable native government's power similar to the way our government's power is enabled by the act of another government?

For most Band governments, yes. But the Mohawks are not like the others. While they elect Chiefs and Councilors through the Indian Act, they also take control of their own laws and customs. The Citizenship Code is something that has been around since before the 1850s and has been updated regularly. They are still using it today, in a more modern and modified form.

The problem is that Kahnesatake is a fractured community. The Seignority through the power of the Governor of Quebec took their land and left them with individual plots here and there that make up their territory. They have a land claim for the entire Seignority and so while they await the resolution of it, they must protect the land from further exploitation. What had been happening long ago (and it is still feared will happen) is that if they do not clearly define their members, then anyone claiming Mohawk ancestry can claim the land back from the Church and sell it privately - making land claims for those parcels a nightmare.

The Church has used this method to maintain their ownership over land claims that have already been settled. So the preservation of their membership and ultimately their land base is the incentive for enforcing their membership code and they get their authority through the Great Law, as members of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy.

Edited February 20, 2010 by charter.rights

[M.Dancer]

All your posturing aside, the Mohawks did not use the Indian Act to make their citizenship laws.

Exactly. Same with Germany's citizenship laws in the 30s....racism does not need Canadian approval.

[charter.rights]

Nope. Not racism at all little thinker.

The Great Law is based on nationhood, and provides the rule of immigration and adoption into the nation. If you had of done the homework I gave you, you would have seen that ANYONE can become a Mohawk - even you - if you comply with the requirements in the Great Law. But I don't think you would since you wouldn't even know the first thing about making a string of wampum.

Since all you seem to be good at, is fallacy argument, I wonder it you even have a brain?

Edited February 20, 2010 by charter.rights

[M.Dancer]

Nope. Not racism at all little thinker.

The Great Law is based on nationhood, and provides the rule of immigration and adoption into the nation. If you had of done the homework I gave you, you would have seen that ANYONE can become a Mohawk - even you - if you comply with the requirements in the Great Law. But I don't think you would since you wouldn't even know the first thing about making a string of wampum.

Since all you seem to be good at, is fallacy argument, I wonder it you even have a brain?

you would have seen that ANYONE can become a Mohawk

Anyone aparently except those who marry mohawks...

But I don't think you would since you wouldn't even know the first thing about making a string of wampum

Correct....you think that arcane useless knowledge is a reasonable requirement? Would sopmeone who knows how to arreange bridge financing have more value to the community than someone who can string pretty beads together?

|Appremntly these picayune nonsensical requirements based on styone age superstitions have only one real purpose....keeping out non mohawks.

Can you show any stats as to the number on immigrants that the Mohawks have accepted as "citizens" and there nationality of origin.

I bet you can't.

Edited February 20, 2010 by M.Dancer

[g_bambino]

I bet you can't.

Given that you never got the Mohawk citizenship forms you asked for, I'd wager on your side as well.

[charter.rights]

Anyone aparently except those who marry mohawks...

Those married to Mohawks can also become Mohawks BUT they haven't, and many won't give up their Canadian citizenship, as is required.

Correct....you think that arcane useless knowledge is a reasonable requirement? Would sopmeone who knows how to arreange bridge financing have more value to the community than someone who can string pretty beads together?

Again, your ignorance shines, in that symbolism is as important to the Mohawks as is it to Canada. I mean who would bring a big club into Parliament for peaceful purposes? You're silly....

|Appremntly these picayune nonsensical requirements based on styone age superstitions have only one real purpose....keeping out non mohawks.

Yep! Just like Canada keeps out non-Canadians! In order to qualify as a Canadian you have to meet the citizenship requirements. Silly you for not getting that. Mohawks are within their rights to required conditions to be met for citizenship.

Can you show any stats as to the number on immigrants that the Mohawks have accepted as "citizens" and there nationality of origin.

I bet you can't.

Of course! There are many Mohawks who can trace their family trees back to non-Mohawks. Pauline Johnson (among many others) was born to Sir William Johnson, but met the citizenship of the Mohawk Nation and so was considered a Mohawk. Joseph Brant, was also from a non-Mohawk mother and when he was recognized as a Chief all they could do is "hang a name around his neck" because he was not a "naturalized" citizen. You can do your own research if you are too lazy, and just type in Brant, or any other typical Mohawk name into Ancestry.com. There are lots of non-Mohawks who over the years have emigrated to the Mohawk Nation.

I know you don't want to "get it" because your finger pointing soothes your retched soul BUT, Mohawks are not Canadians, just like Americans are not Canadians and they have every right to decide who can and cannot become Mohawks. They have their law, and we have ours. It is just that simple.

[M.Dancer]

Those married to Mohawks can also become Mohawks BUT they haven't, and many won't give up their Canadian citizenship, as is required.

Well how could they? Mohawk citizenshiop isn't real. It's a figment.

Quick...how many UN nations accept a Mohawk passport?

What license plate do Mohawks use on the southshore?

When did the Mohawks koin the UN?

What is mohawk currency called?

There is no mohawk citizenship to be had....it is sophistry for plastic shamans and other fruads.

[bush_cheney2004]

....What is mohawk currency called?

Wampum?

[charter.rights]

Well how could they? Mohawk citizenshiop isn't real. It's a figment.

Quick...how many UN nations accept a Mohawk passport?

At least 20, where different Haudenosaunee have traveled so far, which includes the US. Presently the Haudenosaunee Confederacy is finalizing the Secure Passport intended to meet the requirements of Homeland Security. As well the status card which identifies Mohawk people is all the identification need to travel back and forth across the border.

What license plate do Mohawks use on the southshore?

Mohawks do not need a licence plate to travel within any Haudenosaunee Territory - on the north shore or the south shore. But it is prudent to use a Quebec, Ontario, or New York plate when traveling outside of their territory. However, this too is only temporary since the Mohawks from Kahnawake, Akwesanse, Tyendinaga and Six Nations are in the process of getting the OPP to recognize their own nation licence plates. Not that they need their permission, but they certainly do not need the hassle either.

When did the Mohawks koin the UN?

The Mohawks do not belong to the UN. However, the Haudenosaunee Council has presented at the UN a number of times and is also in the process of getting recognition there. The US doesn't have a problem, since they already recognize Haudenosaunee sovereignty, but Canada has stood in the way.

What is mohawk currency called?

Actually most of the transactions are done in American currency, although Canadian money is also used on the local reserves. Money doesn;t define a nation chum, so you have lost points for this childish question.

There is no mohawk citizenship to be had....it is sophistry for plastic shamans and other fruads.

Incorrect. You might want to brush up on your current events. The Courts in the Tyendinaga protest cases have recognized Mohawk sovereignty and have released people back to the community warning the the Crown should not be involved in internal issues (such as the police station protests). The Mohawks are very much a sovereign people complete with a constitution and citizenship laws. You really aren;t all that well read, now are you.....

I will forgive all the terrible spelling and grammar to excessive drinking. When you sober up you might want to do a little more research before you go spouting your prejudice in public.

[charter.rights]

Wampum?

Nope. Wampum is a form of record-keeping / history. It was never traded as currency.

[Smallc]

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=wampum+as+currency&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[bush_cheney2004]

Nope. Wampum is a form of record-keeping / history. It was never traded as currency.

I can't believe you typed that...amazing. Never say never....

[charter.rights]

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=wampum+as+currency&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

All myths. No substance to any of them. It was never used as "currency". It was barter for, being a precious item. But it was never used to purchase good or services.

[bush_cheney2004]

All myths. No substance to any of them. It was never used as "currency". It was barter for, being a precious item. But it was never used to purchase good or services.

Nonsense...better quit while you are behind....way behind:

European traders and politicians, using beads and trinkets, often exploited gift exchange to gain Native American favor or territory. With the scarcity of metal coins in New England, Wampum quickly evolved into a formal currency after European/Native contact, it's production greatly facilitated by slender European metal drill bits. Wampum was mass produced in coastal southern New England. The Narragansetts and Pequots monopolized the manufacture and exchange of wampum in this area.

[Smallc]

All myths.

Unlike almost everything you post, it's completely true.

[charter.rights]

Unlike almost everything you post, it's completely true.

Nonsense. It is all myth. The use and trade of wampum was totally misunderstood by people who put monetary value on everything. Gifts of wampum has no financial value. Early settlers thought they could make in into something. They didn't and it was never used as money.