UFC's Lesnar berates Canadian health care...

[dlkenny]

The supreme court has ruled that the current system of healthcare is inadequate and infringes on people's rights. There has to be some for profit care, 1) it is an avenue to start business and 2) in conjunction with the public system wait times would come crashing down

Right, but it wouldn't replace the public system. It would co exist, which would indeed bring wait times down and create business opportunities. That I have no problem with.

[Smallc]

I'm really not sure how it would bring waits down if it would quite literally be stealing medical professionals. I don't know if you realize this, but there is a shortage of medical professionals throughout the Western world. There are only so many to go around.

[blueblood]

I'm really not sure how it would bring waits down if it would quite literally be stealing medical professionals. I don't know if you realize this, but there is a shortage of medical professionals throughout the Western world. There are only so many to go around.

The Americans are already "stealing" medical professionals. With two tier in Canada, they wouldn't be stealing as much.

Tell that to the medical professionals driving taxi cabs.

[Who's Doing What?]

HE complains because he is rich. He is right in a way. If you have money the US is the better place to go. I am sure in the US he is coddled and fawned over and given extra pillows and the whole works because he has the bank account to afford such treatment.

[BubberMiley]

My cousin in Minnesota, who has been battling cancer for some time, has gone to Mexico for treatment since the Mayo Clinic gave up on him.

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side of the border.

[Smallc]

I wonder if Mexicans go to Guatemala for treatment? There was a nice list of announcements by Manitoba Health today regarding diagnostic equipment. The purchases will allow ultrasound waits to fall and CT waits to fall even further....MRI waits are also tracking downward slowly again.

[Guest American Woman]

My cousin in Minnesota, who has been battling cancer for some time, has gone to Mexico for treatment since the Mayo Clinic gave up on him.

"Gave up on him?" Or had no further approved treatment available? I feel for your cousin, but I suspect it's the latter.

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side of the border.

Depends on what he's getting on "the other side of the border."

Edited January 29, 2010 by American Woman

[wyly]

Right, but it wouldn't replace the public system. It would co exist, which would indeed bring wait times down and create business opportunities. That I have no problem with.

that wouldn't work, two systems will not create more doctors or nurses there will still be a shortage...those who are wealthy won't have to wait and those who not wealthy will wait longer...

[wyly]

The Americans are already "stealing" medical professionals. With two tier in Canada, they wouldn't be stealing as much.

that's not the case, there is always immigration between countries and always will be but Canada gains MD's as well...one of the biggest problems in medicine is there a lot of women MD's and a limited amount of training space...most university students are now women, so if half of all MD spots go to women where as 30-40 yrs ago the overwhelming number were men this result in a shortage of MD's...women often stop their practise to raise familes, men tend to keep working...

Tell that to the medical professionals driving taxi cabs.

those in taxi's aren't qualified, there is a world of difference in quality from one country to another medicine graduates...

[blueblood]

that's not the case, there is always immigration between countries and always will be but Canada gains MD's as well...one of the biggest problems in medicine is there a lot of women MD's and a limited amount of training space...most university students are now women, so if half of all MD spots go to women where as 30-40 yrs ago the overwhelming number were men this result in a shortage of MD's...women often stop their practise to raise familes, men tend to keep working...

What are you talking about. There is a shortage of MD's because they flock to get on the US gravy train. Having a private option here will ensure more med school grads will stay in Canada. The rest of that doesn't make any sense, what's mat leave 1-2 years? Even then we have a lot of immigrants from other parts of the world who want to practice medicine but we have a greedy CMA union that wants to keep them out and make sure their salary is inflated at the expense of the health and well being of Canadians.

those in taxi's aren't qualified, there is a world of difference in quality from one country to another medicine graduates...

It's called learning on the job. canadians suffer because we put non tariff barriers on immigrants wanting to practice medicine that can't afford to write the test to get themselves certified.

[Smallc]

What are you talking about. There is a shortage of MD's because they flock to get on the US gravy train. Having a private option here will ensure more med school grads will stay in Canada.

That's an old problem that doesn't exist anymore. According to the OECD, Canada has 2.2 doctors per 1000 people (and the number is growing) and the US has about 2.4 doctors per 1000 people...and the number is relatively stable, but down from when I first remember looking up the figures. I have also heard that we have more GPs than they do, and they have more specialists than we do. More doctors now stay in Canada, and more doctors are now being certified in Canada. I think you need to get with the times.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Smallc

[bush_cheney2004]

.... More doctors now stay in Canada, and more doctors are now being certified in Canada. I think you need to get with the times.

The times says that Canadian doctors and other medical professionals are still heading south, but the bleeding is made up with emigres from other nations. Brain Drain meets Brain Gain....but it is still a net loss. The United States has no equivalent experience with doctors fleeing the country in such large numbers...before...or now.

http://www.straightgoods.com/Analyze/0018.shtml

[Smallc]

Yeah...we're getting more doctors and professionals...good for you.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah...we're getting more doctors and professionals...good for you.

Yes, it is very important for Canada to count things that way. Security legislation since 9/11 has actually helped slow the bleeding, but it has not stopped.

The United States has no equivalent experience with doctors fleeing the country in such large numbers...before...or now.

Edited January 31, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Smallc]

Oh good you repeated yourself. You deserve a cookie.

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh good you repeated yourself. You deserve a cookie.

The United States has no equivalent experience with doctors fleeing the country in such large numbers...before...or now.

[Guest TrueMetis]

The United States has no equivalent experience with doctors fleeing the country in such large numbers...before...or now.

The numbers aren't even that large. What is with you and these myths?

[Smallc]

The numbers aren't even that large. What is with you and these myths?

He also ignores that fact that about half as many Americans move up here every year as leave here for there, and that Canada takes in more immigrants per capita than any other country and still has a backlog. But, he'd never let facts get in the way.

[bush_cheney2004]

He also ignores that fact that about half as many Americans move up here every year as leave here for there, and that Canada takes in more immigrants per capita than any other country and still has a backlog. But, he'd never let facts get in the way.

Fuzzy math indeed considering the relative population sizes. More Canadians (millions more) have migrated to the US of A. My Canuck neighbor joined the Stars and Stripes just last year because of oppressive taxes back home in Manitoba.

The United States has no equivalent experience with doctors fleeing the country in such large numbers...before...or now.

Edited January 31, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest TrueMetis]

He also ignores that fact that about half as many Americans move up here every year as leave here for there, and that Canada takes in more immigrants per capita than any other country and still has a backlog. But, he'd never let facts get in the way.

He's also very good at looking like he is saying something while saying nothing at all.

[bush_cheney2004]

He's also very good at looking like he is saying something while saying nothing at all.

I'm very good at many things.

The United States has no equivalent experience with doctors fleeing the country in such large numbers...before...or now.

[bush_cheney2004]

Welcome to the USA!

Frustrated foreign doctors leaving Canada for U.S.

There are thousands of them in Canada. They’re called IMGs, international medical graduates — trained doctors whose degrees are not recognized in this country. Consequently, many are going to the United States.

April 27, 2007

OTTAWA —There are thousands of them in Canada. They’re called IMGs, international medical graduates — trained doctors whose degrees are not recognized in this country. Consequently, many are going to the United States.

This group, which has been estimated at 7,000 doctors, has long been touted as a solution to the shortage of doctors in Canada.

But many who come here to practise still find themselves left idling outside the health-care system, as tough licensing standards and limited resources for training and support make finding a position in Canada a tedious, drawn-out process.

In 1993, when there were only 24 residency positions available for such doctors in Ontario, Dr. Abera Abay, an Ethiopian-trained gastroenterologist, found he could go no further. Although he wanted to make Canada his home, Dr. Abay ended up finding success south of the border.

He applied for his first American test in March 1994 and, by July 1995, was in an American residency program after attracting the attention of the Beth Israel Medical Center in Manhattan, where he was recognized as resident of the year in 1998.

“Getting the (visa) paper was way harder than passing the exams,” he remembers.

He is now in a successful practice in Connecticut.

“I’m doing extremely well financially and in my profession here, so it’s not a case of trying to protect the public,” he said of Canada’s application process for foreign doctors.

“It’s a case of bad judgement and protecting their own turf.”

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=ff90ad9a-27fc-40e5-bd16-369bb739f6fe&k=68609

Meanwhile, back at the ranch....

The United States has no equivalent experience with doctors fleeing the country in such large numbers...before...or now.

Edited January 31, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

And then there is this....

Africa says Canada is stealing MDs

South Africa needs doctors. The country is home to the worlds worst HIV epidemic, a growing tuberculosis problem, and high infant mortality rates. But rather than helping the struggling nation, South Africas high commissioner says Canada is doing the opposite: through intense recruiting campaigns, were poaching as many South African doctors as we can to help ease our own doctor shortage at home.

In a report, Dr. Abraham Sokaya Nkomo, South Africas high commissioner to Canada, complains that the doctors migrate at a very high cost to South Africa, causing a huge loss of investment in education and training. The report adds that Canadas doctor poaching makes it difficult to deliver good quality, easily accessible and equitable services in South Africa.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/08/19/africa-says-canada-is-stealing-mds/

Did I mention.....

The United States has no equivalent experience with doctors fleeing the country in such large numbers...before...or now.

Edited January 31, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

That's an old problem that doesn't exist anymore. According to the OECD, Canada has 2.2 doctors per 1000 people (and the number is growing).....

That figure is from 2005, while this article is from 2006: Canada's doctor shortage to worsen without changes: Fraser report

The number of doctors per capita in Canada will decline by 2015 without more foreign-trained doctors, but increasing the number of spots for qualified Canadian students is a better solution, the Fraser Institute concludes in a report Monday.

So evidently, regardless of the 2.2 doctors per 1000 people, it's perceived as a problem.

Canada's Physician Shortage: Effects, Projections, and Solutions (Date Published: August 1, 2006): Most discussions and studies have come to the conclusion that there are too few physicians practicing in Canada today. That conclusion is supported by the available evidence on Canadians’ unmet health care needs and the relative supply of physicians in this country.

Btw, the first link I provided backs up what BC said about the need for doctors in South Africa: Relying on foreign-trained doctors is negatively affecting the supply of physicians in lower-income countries such as South Africa and India, a 2005 study in the New England Journal of Medicine found.

[bloodyminded]

The numbers aren't even that large. What is with you and these myths?

Nationalist cowardice, of course.