UFC's Lesnar berates Canadian health care...

[Smallc]

I'm not saying Canada doesn't have great clinics/facilities, but most people can't get into them.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Every Canadian has access to every publicly funded facility in the country if needed.

At the Winnipeg HSC, my father made an appointment with an ENT on a Friday. He could have gotten in Monday, but chose not to. It doesn't only happen in America.

Edited January 25, 2010 by Smallc

[bush_cheney2004]

They won't be doing that, because Canada doesn't have a system like that and you know it. That's completely irrelevant to the point of delivering care to Canadians.

Ok...then to be clear...your position is about the lowest common denominator (equal treatment), at least within a province? Not sure how that squares with the national CHA objective, but that's another argument for another thread.

[Smallc]

Ok...then to be clear...your position is about the lowest common denominator (equal treatment), at least within a province?

The Winnipeg HSC takes referrals from outside of the province all of the time, as does the St. Boniface Hospital (Winnipeg), the Princess Margaret Hospital (Toronto), The Alberta Heart Institute, and so many others. We're not limited to the care within our own province.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Every Canadian has access to every publicly funded facility in the country if needed.

This is false from a practical point of view.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Winnipeg HSC takes referrals from outside of the province all of the time, as does the St. Boniface Hospital (Winnipeg), the Princess Margaret Hospital (Toronto), The Alberta Heart Institute, and so many others. We're not limited to the care within our own province.

Of course not, but I don't think Nunavut shares your enthusiasm for such theoretical access to equal services.

Edited January 25, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Every Canadian has access to every publicly funded facility in the country if needed.

The "if needed" is what I'm talking about there, as "if needed" = "referrals," does it not? As I understand it, from what I've seen, without the referral, there is no access.

[Smallc]

That's not completely true either. I can walk into any hospital in the country. I may not get long drawn out treatment there though, unless it is needed. Still, everyone has access to all the facilities.

[Guest American Woman]

That's not completely true either. I can walk into any hospital in the country. I may not get long drawn out treatment there though, unless it is needed. Still, everyone has access to all the facilities.

In case you truly need it spelled out for you, by "access" I meant "treatment."

In case you were trying to make a funny rather than address the issue, ha ha.

Fact remains, everyone in Canada does not have access to treatment at the facilities you referred to. They are at the mercy of a 'referral,' so "if needed" equals "referral." Two very different things.

[bush_cheney2004]

In case you truly need it spelled out for you, by "access" I meant "treatment."

This is a common refrain....access is the politically correct term for actual treatment, services, and wait times that vary considerably by province.

[Smallc]

They are at the mercy of a 'referral,' so "if needed" equals "referral." Two very different things.

The mercy of referrals? You're basically saying they're all the mercy of doctors. I can walk into the Health Sciences centre if I choose to and get the treatment I need there. I may run into some problems for long drawn out treatments out of province, but I may not. It depends on the case. In most cases, I don't need a referral to go to any facility. In some cases, I would. I can't walk in and use the Artiste if I don't need it, but if I do, no matter where I live in Canada, I have access to it.

[blueblood]

That metaphor doesn't work...everyone eats in a mid priced restaurant. There isn't always the very best cuts available, but the ones that are there (often very good) are available to anyone.

That metaphor works fine, I don't know any mid priced restaurants that give their meals away. The soup kitchen is the only one I know that does that. I'll ask you again, what business does a millionaire have of eating in a soup kitchen and taking a meal away from a guy who desperately needs it?

Canadians are missing out on getting better health care because a vast majority of people have smallc patriot syndrome and can't see the forest through the trees.

Having this debate is like comparing CFL to NFL football. Oh we get to have professional football in Canada, but there is a far better product in the states for those who can afford it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Having this debate is like comparing CFL to NFL football. Oh we get to have professional football in Canada, but there is a far better product in the states for those who can afford it.

Ouch! Now that is an analogy that really hurts!

[Smallc]

Canadians are missing out on getting better health care because a vast majority of people have smallc patriot syndrome and can't see the forest through the trees.

The metaphor doesn't work because the product isn't given away and it isn't generally inferior (though there are some specific cases). We pay for it, just not at the end use.

If you love America so much, then move there. Don't try to turn this country into America, because it isn't, it never was, and it never will be.

Edited January 25, 2010 by Smallc

[Smallc]

Ouch! Now that is an analogy that really hurts!

It's another bad analogy though. Which sport you see as better comes down to personal preference....I hate them both.

[bush_cheney2004]

The metaphor doesn't work because the product isn't given away. We pay for it, just not at the end use. If you love America so much, then move their. Don't try to turn this country into America, because it isn't, it never was, and it never will be.

Amen to that.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's another bad analogy though. Which sport you see as better comes down to personal preference....I hate them both.

The actual sport is not his point...the level of play is.

[Smallc]

The actual sport is not his point...the level of play is.

It's still a bad analogy, because it still comes down to personal preference. What you see as more important (level of play) isn't necessarily shared by others (the sport).

[bush_cheney2004]

It's still a bad analogy, because it still comes down to personal preference. What you see as more important (level of play) isn't necessarily shared by others (the sport).

It is if I need a working scanner, faster revascularization, or a neo-natal bed.

[blueblood]

The metaphor doesn't work because the product isn't given away and it isn't generally inferior (though there are some specific cases). We pay for it, just not at the end use.

If you love America so much, then move there. Don't try to turn this country into America, because it isn't, it never was, and it never will be.

Everybody has access to a soup kitchen, just like our healthcare. Why should a millionaire eat in a soup kitchen?

Is this more do as I say, not as I do? I have every right as a taxpayer to be critical of a health system that is soviet, I'm not getting my money's worth. Better tell the supreme court to move to the US, because they think that monopoly BS that the health care system that you brag about infringes on people's rights. We could have a two tier option in Canada with everybody winning, but people like you scream bloody murder because there are private companies involved.

I like America, why not, they're the best possible neighbours a country like ours could have. They are far better to deal with than any country in the world. What I want is something better, it's what most rational people want. Unfortunately you don't want something that is better and think that we should be happy with what we have even though there are superior options. If that's the attitude of Canadians, I'm embarassed to call myself one.

It's another bad analogy though. Which sport you see as better comes down to personal preference....I hate them both.

CBC covers the NFL playoffs on its website, and CTV pays big dollars to broadcast games. I wonder how much TSN dishes out to cover CFL games. Why won't CTV show CFL games on the main network? Why do they leave it to TSN to cover it?

[Smallc]

It is if I need a working scanner, faster revascularization, or a neo-natal bed.

Scanners don't break in the US?

Keep trolling away.

[bush_cheney2004]

Scanners don't break in the US?

No...we have plenty of 'em. Even drive through like Macdonalds.

Keep trolling away.

So sensitive!

[Smallc]

Everybody has access to a soup kitchen, just like our healthcare. Why should a millionaire eat in a soup kitchen?

They don't have to, they can go to the US. They can if they want to though. In Canadian society, the millionaire isn't anymore important than the homeless person in terms of life saving treatment. The value of life isn't based on worth.

Is this more do as I say, not as I do? I have every right as a taxpayer to be critical of a health system that is soviet, I'm not getting my money's worth. Better tell the supreme court to move to the US, because they think that monopoly BS that the health care system that you brag about infringes on people's rights.

No actually, they don't. They said that things weren't working fast enough in some places. Because of that, you can now buy wait time insurance. As a taxpayer, you have no more right than any other citizen. The majority doesn't agree with you...so either live with it, or move.

We could have a two tier option in Canada with everybody winning, but people like you scream bloody murder because there are private companies involved.

We have a two tier option...in the US. A two tier option here would simply take away from the public system by competing with it.

I like America, why not, they're the best possible neighbours a country like ours could have.

Didn't say that they weren't.

They are far better to deal with than any country in the world.

That depends what we're talking about.

What I want is something better, it's what most rational people want

And what you consider as better is not necessarily better. The same goes for me.

Unfortunately you don't want something that is better and think that we should be happy with what we have even though there are superior options. If that's the attitude of Canadians, I'm embarassed to call myself one.

And I'm sure most of Canada is embarrassed of you, too.

CBC covers the NFL playoffs on its website, and CTV pays big dollars to broadcast games. I wonder how much TSN dishes out to cover CFL games. Why won't CTV show CFL games on the main network? Why do they leave it to TSN to cover it?

I don't know and I don't care. It still doesn't change anything. The product isn't necessarily superior, it all comes down to personal preference.

[Smallc]

No...we have plenty of 'em. Even drive through like Macdonalds.

Manitoba also has plenty of scanners, far more than most other places. As I said, there was another not very far away. The exact same situation could happen in the US, especially in a relatively rural area.

So sensitive!

Such meaningless posts.

[bush_cheney2004]

Because of that, you can now buy wait time insurance. As a taxpayer, you have no more right than any other citizen. The majority doesn't agree with you...so either live with it, or move....

Holy Wait Time, Batman. What a concept! The market at work...even in Canadian Health Care:

WHAT IS MAI PLUS+?

Medical Access Insurance Plus+ provides Canadians with expedited access to specialist consultation, diagnostics, and surgery for over 135 treatments and conditions. Medical treatment for covered conditions will be provided in weeks, not months or years. Our policyholders are serviced independently, resulting in shorter waiting times for others.

HOW DOES IT WORK?

If a physician recommends a covered diagnostic procedure or surgery and you are placed on a medical waiting list more than 45 days long,

MAI Plus+ will arrange to expedite your diagnosis and treatment in the United States

, or in Canada, when services are available. Specialist Coverage Rider is also triggered by a 45-day wait list.

DO I HAVE TO WAIT 45 DAYS BEFORE TREATMENT BEGINS?

No. Call us right away. Once services are approved we will expedite your treatment immediately.

ARE TRAVEL EXPENSES COVERED?

Approved travel expenses are covered for the basic program which also covers approved companion travel expenses. However, travel expenses are not covered for the Specialist Coverage Rider.

WHAT IS THE SPECIALIST COVERAGE RIDER?

MAI Plus+ provides you with insured access to Specialist consultation in 10 Specialist categories. Recent studies show that seeing a Specialist within 21 days of referral by your GP may result in a reduction of the intensity of treatment and reduce recovery time by as much as 75%.

Medical Wait Times

815,000 Canadians are waiting for treatment and this number is growing

Heart bypass wait is over a year; hip and knee replacement can be 2 years

These times are after you have seen a specialist

May be even longer if you have to wait for tests

Waiting for services frequently causes stress, anxiety, loss of income and physical deconditioning

http://www.acurehealth.com/faq.aspx#what_is

Edited January 25, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[blueblood]

They don't have to, they can go to the US. They can if they want to though. In Canadian society, the millionaire isn't anymore important than the homeless person in terms of life saving treatment. The value of life isn't based on worth.

Ha! Reality says otherwise. That isn't the case at tax time, or when we have poor people electing MPs with a platform to raid the rich person's bank account. You keep telling yourself that bed time story.

No actually, they don't. They said that things weren't working fast enough in some places. Because of that, you can now buy wait time insurance. As a taxpayer, you have no more right than any other citizen. The majority doesn't agree with you...so either live with it, or move.

As a taxpayer I have a right to say something sucks just as much as the next guy. Lots of people don't agree with what you say, I don't think you should have to move. Free speech is a two way street, deal with it.

We have a two tier option...in the US. A two tier option here would simply take away from the public system by competing with it.

A two tier option would improve funding to the public system with the tax dollars it pays. The US competes with our system right now, why can't Canadians set one up? Our system is doing just fine with the Americans next door. That argument is bogus.

And I'm sure most of Canada is embarrassed of you, too.

Good for them, I could care less of what city people think of me.