UFC's Lesnar berates Canadian health care...

[Smallc]

Ha! Reality says otherwise. That isn't the case at tax time, or when we have poor people electing MPs with a platform to raid the rich person's bank account. You keep telling yourself that bed time story.

Reality doesn't say otherwise at all. Obviously you didn't understand what I said, as you just proved my point.

As a taxpayer I have a right to say something sucks just as much as the next guy. Lots of people don't agree with what you say, I don't think you should have to move. Free speech is a two way street, deal with it.

You do....so do many other people. They don't have to agree with you...or listen.

A two tier option would improve funding to the public system with the tax dollars it pays.

Yeah...taking away doctors that are now staying in Canada and moving to Canada in record numbers would be such a good idea.

The US competes with our system right now, why can't Canadians set one up?

Why duplicate what already exists?

Our system is doing just fine with the Americans next door. That argument is bogus.

I'm glad you admit that our system is just fine. Admitting the truth is half the battle.

Good for them, I could care less of what city people think of me.

And the feeling is mutual...especially when you make ignorant comments about being embarrassed to be Canadian and not caring what "city people" think.

I'm tired of having the same argument over and over. I'm done playing.

[Shakeyhands]

The "if needed" is what I'm talking about there, as "if needed" = "referrals," does it not? As I understand it, from what I've seen, without the referral, there is no access.

If I break my leg, bump my head, throw up, get a fever or even have an itch that just won't go away... I can walk in to any facility in this great country and be seen by a doctor. Further, I won't be billed. Does that cover it?

[blueblood]

Reality doesn't say otherwise at all. Obviously you didn't understand what I said, as you just proved my point.

Oh no I understand, you just don't understand that at tax time rich people take a bath, and the homeless person gets paid. But when it comes to healthcare, everyone's in the same boat. That's a double standard.

Yeah...taking away doctors that are now staying in Canada and moving to Canada in record numbers would be such a good idea.

If there was a two tier system in Canada, wouldn't more doctors have work? Wouldn't more Canadians get faster and better care? Wouldn't the poor people still get their care? It's a better idea than the gong show we have now. Just ask some taxi drivers with their medical papers!

Why duplicate what already exists?

More money

I'm glad you admit that our system is just fine. Admitting the truth is half the battle.

I meant to say "fine" as in its not in danger as some fear mongerers would like us to believe if we had a two tier system in Canada.

And the feeling is mutual...especially when you make ignorant comments about being embarrassed to be Canadian and not caring what "city people" think.

I'm tired of having the same argument over and over. I'm done playing.

Not my problem if you don't want things to constantly improve and improve on a large scale. That's a poor attitude to have, and it's unfortunate so many Canadians have it. That would be an arrogant comment, not an ignorant one.

[Guest American Woman]

If I break my leg, bump my head, throw up, get a fever or even have an itch that just won't go away... I can walk in to any facility in this great country and be seen by a doctor. Further, I won't be billed. Does that cover it?

No, it doesn't. If you have a problem that needs diagnosis, you will have to wait for a referral. Then you will have to wait for a diagnosis. Then you will have to wait until surgery is scheduled.

I'm not talking a broken leg, a bump on the head, an rash, or the flu. I'm also not talking 'urgent care.' I'm talking a problem that requires a diagnosis and then treatment such as surgery. And when all is said and done, you go to the doctor you are referred to and treated where ever it is set up.

As I already said, having to wait several weeks for this, unable to work, cuts into one's finances even if you're not ultimately billed for the treatment.

Edited January 25, 2010 by American Woman

[Smallc]

. And when all is said and done, you go to the doctor you are referred to and treated where ever it is set up.

No you don't. You can tell them that you want a different doctor or facility.

[Smallc]

Not my problem if you don't want things to constantly improve and improve on a large scale.

Things are constantly improving. You just aren't paying attention.

[blueblood]

Things are constantly improving. You just aren't paying attention.

By your standards hiring one nurse is a major improvement. I'll take that comment with a grain of salt.

[Smallc]

Manitoba has added 2000 nurses in 10 years and 300 doctors in 6 years. If you had been to any of the major health centres and hospitals, you would see the difference, and the work that is still ongoing.

[bush_cheney2004]

Manitoba has added 2000 nurses in 10 years and 300 doctors in 6 years. If you had been to any of the major health centres and hospitals, you would see the difference, and the work that is still ongoing.

Yet some of those nurses, recruited from the Philippines, boogied to the USA for more dinero, like so many other health care professionals.

[Oleg Bach]

When your system breaks down, apparently they prefer the American "coersion"....check or credit card?

Our system broke down a long time ago..what's left of it is still much much better than yours or anything you will attempt to build through reformation - that will never come anyway - so carry on my friend..and good luck...as for my advice on this matter...strickly cash please.

[Smallc]

Yet some of those nurses, recruited from the Philippines, boogied to the USA for more dinero, like so many other health care professionals.

There are 2000 more nurses than there were 10 years ago. That's the end of it. Nurses that have left have already been subtracted.

[bush_cheney2004]

There are 2000 more nurses than there were 10 years ago. That's the end of it. Nurses that have left have already been subtracted.

Yet...the beat goes on:

Yes, the grass IS greener: Why Canadian nurses go -- and stay -- in the USA

May 14, 2009 (Toronto: May 14, 2009) A study looking at Canadian-educated registered nurses working in the USA found that opportunities for ongoing education, including formal support for graduate education and ease of licensure, in addition to full-time employment, were key factors that contribute to the migration of Canadian nurses to the USA, particularly baccalaureate-educated nurses.

Bloomberg Faculty of Nursing's Dr. Linda McGillis Hall, Associate Dean, Research, is the lead author of the study, published online today in the International Nursing Review.

"These findings are important for Canadian health services policy-makers to consider, as they develop strategies to retain nurses in Canada," says Hall. "The emigration of Canadian RNs to the USA worsens existing shortages in Canada, and creates shortages where none might have existed if these RNs had remained."

The study also found that:

- A greater proportion of Canadian RNs working in the US were employed full-time than their American counterparts, or their Canadian counterparts in Canada

- A higher proportion of Canadian nurses working in the US hold graduate degrees, compared with those working in Canada

- Canada is viewed as a rich source of young, well-educated RNs with the added advantage of low recruitment costs due to geographic proximity, similar cultures and language, reciprocally recognized orientation and basic nursing training

http://www.physorg.com/news161529190.html

Edited January 26, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Oleg Bach]

The most respect I have within the confines of a hospital are for the nurses. They are treated as inferiors by most Canadain doctors..most have a better sense of nurturing along with natural healing abilities than most doctors..It is usually up to a skilled and caring nurse if you survive rather than the arrogant doctors. Now with a high influx in foreign doctors in Canada who have figured out that they are some sort of ruling class..the nurses are held in even more contempt and loathing by these people. So as for the female nurses...and male nurses are not really nurses...just usually gay guys that could not cut medical school - the nurses like abused wives get up and go to a kinder husband with a southern drawl.

[blueblood]

There are 2000 more nurses than there were 10 years ago. That's the end of it. Nurses that have left have already been subtracted.

And if there was a private component those numbers would be higher, and BC2004's sources would say less medical professionals are fleeing the country.

That's just not good enough.

[Smallc]

According the OECD, The US has around 9 nurses per 1000 people. Manitoba has 13 per thousand. Try again.

[bush_cheney2004]

According the OECD, The US has around 9 nurses per 1000 people. Manitoba has 13 per thousand. Try again.

..and according to Nationmaster, the gap isn't that large for both nations, not your apples to oranges comparison...nice try.

Manitoba probably has more moose per 1000 people too.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_nur-health-nurses

[Smallc]

You're right, Canada and the US have very similar numbers. Manitoba has far more nurses (16K for 1.2M people) and a few less doctors (2.1 per 1000 people).

[bush_cheney2004]

You're right, Canada and the US have very similar numbers. Manitoba has far more nurses (16K for 1.2M people) and a few less doctors (2.1 per 1000 people).

That's because they have to wait at least a year to run across the border for more money!

[Smallc]

The number of nurses and doctors in Manitoba (and Canada) is increasing every year. It's been that way for a while now. Try again. Nurses here are paid quite well now too.

[bush_cheney2004]

The number of nurses and doctors in Manitoba (and Canada) is increasing every year. It's been that way for a while now. Try again. Nurses here are paid quite well now too.

Sure...everything is peaches and cream...the number of beavers is increasing too...just wait until the next federal budget cuts to the provinces, just as before. We'll leave the light on for them.

Edited January 26, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[blueblood]

According the OECD, The US has around 9 nurses per 1000 people. Manitoba has 13 per thousand. Try again.

And just imagine what it would be if we opened up the door to private care. Still not good enough. We lose out on economic gain so you flag wavers can have a pissing match with the US.

If its so good, why did the supreme court tell you guys to go fly a kite?

Edited January 26, 2010 by blueblood

[Smallc]

That was all about Quebec....and I've already told you, it only opened the door to wait time insurance....something that would usually be useless in Manitoba.

Oh, and all care is private (unless you're getting your care at a public health centre)...the payment just isn't. I'm not opposed to private care in the public system.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Smallc

[blueblood]

That was all about Quebec....and I've already told you, it only opened the door to wait time insurance....something that would usually be useless in Manitoba.

Oh, and all care is private (unless you're getting your care at a public health centre)...the payment just isn't. I'm not opposed to private care in the public system.

No your just opposed to the fact that people can pay to jump the line and Canada cashing in on it.

People are born equal, however as time goes on some become better than others.

[Smallc]

People are born equal, however as time goes on some become better than others.

My goodness I'd hate to live in your world.

[Shakeyhands]

No, it doesn't. If you have a problem that needs diagnosis, you will have to wait for a referral. Then you will have to wait for a diagnosis. Then you will have to wait until surgery is scheduled.

I'm not talking a broken leg, a bump on the head, an rash, or the flu. I'm also not talking 'urgent care.' I'm talking a problem that requires a diagnosis and then treatment such as surgery. And when all is said and done, you go to the doctor you are referred to and treated where ever it is set up.

As I already said, having to wait several weeks for this, unable to work, cuts into one's finances even if you're not ultimately billed for the treatment.

Well actually no. If I walk into a hospital into the Emerg. Dept. or an Urgent Care (which I would have to if I was elsewhere from my family DR) that is exactly what woyuld happen. I would see the Dr who would refer me to the specialist. I can tell you that if I was away, say in a different Province, and it was a serious issuethat may requiresurgery, I would beseen right away. Our system is set up on a triage system where the most serious are dealt with first, no different than your current system. And btw, the same happens if I am at my family Dr.