UFC's Lesnar berates Canadian health care...

[bush_cheney2004]

If a Nigerian said about the US system what Lesnar said about ours, I would think exactly the same.

I know...so sensitive you be to any such criticism.

The first time he needed the US system, it failed him with a wrong diagonis. A failure, actually, a lot worse than what he experienced in Brandon, since our doctor was able to immediately take the measure of his condition without a scan. In fact, the worse danger Lesnar got in while in Canada was through his own recklessness in leaving an hospital that was perfectly able to at least stabilize his condition and endangering his life and that of others with three hours of high speeding.

Yep..that's what Canada's system does..."stabilize" and wait.

Interesting, btw, that Lesnar has admitted that he had exxagerated his account of the treatment he received in Canada, for political purposes.

Correct...it is not the big mystery made out to be here.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not really.

Trips to America start early for the youngest Canadians....not enough neo-natal facilities to go around.

Are you going to respond this time? Or are you going to keep propagating this myth?

Respond to which myth...that Canada's system is the greatest on the planet?

[bush_cheney2004]

Good for them, silly though, they could get the same treatment here, already prepaid... no need to spend out of pocket for the same.

Is that why some Canadians choose to suffer in line, while others head for faster treatment...like Ms. Holmes?

[Guest TrueMetis]

Trips to America start early for the youngest Canadians....not enough neo-natal facilities to go around.

Ignoring that these are the type of problems that are being fixed and that these trips are paid for by the provincial governments of these expectant mothers do you want to cite a source showing just how many expectant mothers are sent to the States? Bet it is just as "infinitesimal" as the amount of Canadians that go their for other things.

Respond to which myth...that Canada's system is the greatest on the planet?

That a lot of Canadians go to the U.S. for healthcare.

Is that why some Canadians choose to suffer in line, while others head for faster treatment...like Ms. Holmes?

Faster treatment for a non-deadly cyst that cost her her house. Ya that's what I want.

Although the truly interesting thing is that we don't actually know how much faster the treatment time was.

Edited January 24, 2010 by TrueMetis

[bush_cheney2004]

Ignoring that these are the type of problems that are being fixed and that these trips are paid for by the provincial governments of these expectant mothers do you want to cite a source showing just how many expectant mothers are sent to the States? Bet it is just as "infinitesimal" as the amount of Canadians that go their for other things.

To the parents of the child, it is not "infinitesimal"...just like Lesnar's personal experience.

That a lot of Canadians go to the U.S. for healthcare.

It doesn't have to be "a lot"...obviously the provinces are using America's health care system to fill in gaps with standing contracts.

[Guest TrueMetis]

To the parents of the child, it is not "infinitesimal"...just like Lesnar's personal experience.

So if it is emotional it counts more. That makes sense.

It doesn't have to be "a lot"...obviously the provinces are using America's health care system to fill in gaps with standing contracts.

I can say that same thing about Americans using Canadian healthcare to get pharmaceuticals. They also come for cancer, AIDS, multiple sclerosis, and glaucoma treatments.

Edited January 24, 2010 by TrueMetis

[bush_cheney2004]

So if it is emotional it counts more. That makes sense.

It counts for them....so much so...provinces have standing contracts to the American system to fill in gaping holes.

Record numbers of Ontarians are being sent to the U.S. by their government for routine health care that should be available at home. A Metroland Special Report shows thousands of others are funding their own medical treatments south of the border, at high personal cost. The numbers have been rising for the last 10 years. Government approvals for out-of-country health care funding are up 450 per cent.

http://www.thebramptonguardian.com/news/article/81673

I can say that same thing about Americans using Canadian healthcare to get pharmaceuticals. They also come for cancer, AIDS, multiple sclerosis, and glaucoma treatments.

Not so much for pharma since Medicare Part D became law....besides, where do you think most of the drugs come from?

Edited January 24, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest TrueMetis]

It counts for them....so much so...provinces have standing contracts to the American system to fill in gaping holes.

"gaping holes" for a number of patients you are unable to name. Which I count to be 36 in 2007. My link Well that cleatly a "gaping hole"

So Maybe 50 Canadian women are sent to the U.S. for Neonatal.

Not so much for pharma since Medicare Part D became law....besides, where do you think most of the drugs come from?

Which makes it kind of pathetic. You pay more for meds made in the same country as you.

[CANADIEN]

I know...so sensitive you be to any such criticism.

Nope, just able to nitice crap when I see it.

Yep..that's what Canada's system does..."stabilize" and wait.

Beats giving the wrong diagnosis.

Edited January 24, 2010 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

Respond to which myth...that Canada's system is the greatest on the planet?

Now now now... Nobody is claiming that. Only the fact that, by most measures, it's better than the American system

[bush_cheney2004]

"gaping holes" for a number of patients you are unable to name. Which I count to be 36 in 2007. My link Well that cleatly a "gaping hole"

So Maybe 50 Canadian women are sent to the U.S. for Neonatal.

Looks like the Brampton Guardian is calling you a liar!

Which makes it kind of pathetic. You pay more for meds made in the same country as you.

No...that's the idea....make a profit!

[Guest TrueMetis]

Looks like the Brampton Guardian is calling you a liar!

Link?

No...that's the idea....make a profit!

[bush_cheney2004]

Link?

See post #57 in this thread....I guess eye care ain't so good up there either!

[Guest TrueMetis]

See post #57 in this thread....I guess eye care ain't so good up there either!

You edited it after I had read it. I don't usually re-read posts.

First off this has no relevance to Neonatal which was what I was speaking of. Second these are still people who are having their medical payed for by the province. Third this only goes for Ontario. And fourth they are trying to fix the problem, which is more than can be said about U.S. healthcare.

[Guest American Woman]

"gaping holes" for a number of patients you are unable to name. Which I count to be 36 in 2007. My link Well that cleatly a "gaping hole"

So Maybe 50 Canadian women are sent to the U.S. for Neonatal.

Canada's U.S. baby boom

Excerpts:

More than 100 Canadian women with high-risk pregnancies have been sent to United States hospitals over the past year – in what a doctors' group attributes to the lack of a national birthing plan.

“Neonatologists are very stretched right now,” Dr. Lalonde said in a telephone interview from Ottawa. “We're so stretched, it's kind of dangerous.

Canada, once able to boast about its high rank in the world for low infant-mortality rate – sixth place in 1990 – saw its rank plummet to 25th place in 2005....

So what would happen if the U.S. were in the same situation as Canada? What would happen if the U.S. were lacking neonatal facilities too?

I have to agree that those who don't support Canada's system have just as much a right to speak out against it as those who speak out against the U.S's health care situation. Evidently it's ok to berate us, but not Canada?

Canada's system is not perfect by any means. For Americans who don't have insurance and can't afford health care, then Canada would provide better treatment. For those with good insurance, then the U.S. would provide better treatment. Therein lies the problem; people don't want to give up what they have for less.

It's a fact that people come from all over the world to go to clinics such as Mayo, and they come in large numbers.

Edited January 24, 2010 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

First off this has no relevance to Neonatal which was what I was speaking of. Second these are still people who are having their medical payed for by the province. Third this only goes for Ontario. And fourth they are trying to fix the problem, which is more than can be said about U.S. healthcare.

Correct...the neonatal disaster has gotten even more media attention. Just makes for more Seahawks and Bills fans!

As for fixing the problem, at least you now acknowledge the obvious.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Canada's U.S. baby boom

Excerpts:

More than 100 Canadian women with high-risk pregnancies have been sent to United States hospitals over the past year – in what a doctors' group attributes to the lack of a national birthing plan.

“Neonatologists are very stretched right now,” Dr. Lalonde said in a telephone interview from Ottawa. “We're so stretched, it's kind of dangerous.

Canada, once able to boast about its high rank in the world for low infant-mortality rate – sixth place in 1990 – saw its rank plummet to 25th place in 2005....

Thanks AW

So what would happen if the U.S. were in the same situation as Canada? What would happen if the U.S. were lacking neonatal facilities too?

Canada would then send them somewhere else. Not sure what the U.S. would do.

I have to agree that those who don't support Canada's system have just as much a right to speak out against it as those who speak out against the U.S's health care situation. Evidently it's ok to berate us, but not Canada?

People berate Canada all the time, and about a lot of things. It is not ok though to make shit up or exagerate, especially when it gains you something.

Canada's system is not perfect by any means. For Americans who don't have insurance and can't afford health care, then Canada would provide better treatment. For those with good insurance, then the U.S. would provide better treatment. Therein lies the problem; people don't want to give up what they have for less.

No one has said Canada is perfect.

It's a fact that people come from all over the world to go to clinics such as Mayo, and they come in large numbers.

Good for them doesn't mean the treatment they get is better, and how many of them are like Holmes who go because they react foolishy to a minor situation?

Correct...the neonatal disaster has gotten even more media attention. Just makes for more Seahawks and Bills fans!

As for fixing the problem, at least you now acknowledge the obvious.

"neonatal diasater" you sure do like to over dramatize.

This is the type of thing I'm talking about AW

Edited January 24, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Smallc]

Canada's system is not perfect by any means. For Americans who don't have insurance and can't afford health care, then Canada would provide better treatment. For those with good insurance, then the U.S. would provide better treatment.

The level of service for insured individuals on both sides of the border is quite similar if health outcomes are any indication.

[bush_cheney2004]

..."neonatal diasater" you sure do like to over dramatize.

This is the type of thing I'm talking about AW

No, I am "dramatizing" at the personal level (same as Lesnar), not some macro per-capita statistic that makes you happy. Why do you want to shut those people up?

[bush_cheney2004]

Wait...it get's better!

When Canadian Karen Jepp gave birth to identical quadruplets girls in Montana last week because the neo-natal intensive care facility at her local hospital was full, Journal Sentinel columnist Patrick McIlerhan used it as an example of the failure of Canada's national health care system.

Lost in the news is that the $200,000 cost of delivering the children in America (vs. $66,000 in Canada) will be borne by the Canadian health care system, which will pay the American hospital. If the Jepp family had been Americans, they quite likely would have faced a personal hardship covering a $200,000 bill, and the hospital could have been stiffed, or the family could have been forced to "sell" their story to cover their bills.

But that's a minor point.

What McIlheran failed to note is that by allowing Jepp to give birth to her children here, the United States of America now has four brand new citizens, according to the 14th Amendment to the Constitution. They can move across the border any time they want, take jobs away from our people, marry our menfolk, and vote for president beginning in 2028. He skips over that completely.

http://www.milwaukeeworld.com/blog/2007/08/canadian-quads-us-citizens.html

[Guest American Woman]

Thanks AW

You're welcome.

Canada would then send them somewhere else. Not sure what the U.S. would do.

Where do you think they would send them? The proximity of the U.S. is why they are sent here. Time is extremely important when dealing with a high-risk pregnancy/birth. Not to mention the increased cost that a trans-Atlantic or Pacific flight would incur; it would be astronomical.

People berate Canada all the time, and about a lot of things. It is not ok though to make shit up or exagerate, especially when it gains you something.

Yet people do that regarding the U.S. all the time, and that includes our health care system. Don't get me wrong; I believe everyone has the right to health care. I do believe in public health care, but I believe in a choice along with it. I don't agree with no private option.

Edited January 25, 2010 by American Woman

[Guest TrueMetis]

No, I am "dramatizing" at the personal level (same as Lesnar), not some macro per-capita statistic that makes you happy. Why do you want to shut those people up?

They can talk as much as they want but I'll be here to make sure everyone knows the truth whenever possible. I deal in facts not dramatized propaganda bull.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Where do you think they would send them? The proximity of the U.S. is why they are sent here. Time is extremely important when dealing with a high-risk pregnancy/birth. Not to mention the increased cost that a trans-Atlantic or Pacific flight would incur; it would be astronomical.

Good point. Though we are working on increasing medical care, and that type of thing would increase the incentive to increase the amount of neonatal facilities.

Yet people do that regarding the U.S. all the time, and that includes our health care system. Don't get me wrong; I believe everyone has the right to health care. I do believe in public health care, but I believe in a choice along with it. I don't agree with no private option.

I think a two-tiered system would be good for Canada (U.S. to) and I think we are heading in that direction. There are privately funded clinics in Canada and although illegal no one has seen fit to shut them down.

[bush_cheney2004]

They can talk as much as they want but I'll be here to make sure everyone knows the truth whenever possible. I deal in facts not dramatized propaganda bull.

Apparently...only half the "truth".

[bush_cheney2004]

....I think a two-tiered system would be good for Canada (U.S. to) and I think we are heading in that direction. There are privately funded clinics in Canada and although illegal no one has seen fit to shut them down.

Canada already has n-tier medical care....it's just politically unacceptable to admit it.