www.teammartinsaid.ca

[August1991]

www.teammartinsaid.ca

This campaign is going to be one of the more interesting ones in a long time.

PS: Why is there no www.whatjacklaytonsaid.ca? Maybe because nobody cares what Layton says?

[maplesyrup]

Let the two right wing parties fight each other off. Looks good to me.

[Bro]

After reading some of your posts Maplesyrup,you are

definitley one of the problems this country has to deal with.

We need a liberal defeat,and promoting the NDP as the party to do so,is just wasting a vote.

Whether you like it or not,you need a conservative win,so that in another four years you will have some federal tax money to play with again,to promote your left of center dreams.The more votes the liberals or ndp get in this election will further delay your party's dreams.Your party and the liberals need taxes from the average working Canadian,but if either of you are left in a power position too long,the jobs will disappear,and your funding source will diminish greatly or be vanished.If your party wants to exist at all,you and your fellow socialists should think twice before they mark an X that might spell their demise.

[Hjalmar]

maplesyrup

Do you know the difference between a socialist and a communist? They are one and the same. The only difference is that the socialist is less mature. Are you advocating communism for our country? Why? So that we can align ourselves with Cuba?

We have two parties now in Canada that could form the next government... Liberals and Conservatives. The leaders of both these parties know that and their election promises are well thought out because they have to follow through if they win. Along comes Jack Layton of the NDP who knows he hasn't a snowballs chance in Hell of forming government and he is free to make any promises he wants to buy votes knowing full well that he'll never have to see them through. What a cozy position to be in!!!!

[Michael Hardner]

Do you know the difference between a socialist and a communist? They are one and the same.

Do you mean from your perspective ? Or do you actually think these words have the same meaning ?

The only difference is that the socialist is less mature. Are you advocating communism for our country? Why? So that we can align ourselves with Cuba?

So Francois Mitterand was less mature than Engels ?

We have two parties now in Canada that could form the next government... Liberals and Conservatives. The leaders of both these parties know that and their election promises are well thought out because they have to follow through if they win. Along comes Jack Layton of the NDP who knows he hasn't a snowballs chance in Hell of forming government and he is free to make any promises he wants to buy votes knowing full well that he'll never have to see them through. What a cozy position to be in!!!!

Well - you're in the cozy position of never having to be in any kind of office at all. Do you think it makes YOU less careful with your words ?

Could be...

[Hjalmar]

Do you mean from your perspective ? Or do you actually think these words have the same meaning ?

I would like to hear your definitions of both Socialism and Comminism.

[Michael Hardner]

You can look up the dictionary definition. Those would be the definitions I would follow.

[Hugo]

Do you mean from your perspective ? Or do you actually think these words have the same meaning ?

Marx and Engels used those words interchangeably.

[scribblet]

From my perspective, socialists want all people to be equal - that is - equally poor.

The conservatives are getting my vote.

[Black Dog]

PS: Why is there no www.whatjacklaytonsaid.ca? Maybe because nobody cares what Layton says?

The Liberals have an anti-Jack site too, called "Say Anything Jack."

Whether you like it or not,you need a conservative win,so that in another four years you will have some federal tax money to play with again,to promote your left of center dreams.The more votes the liberals or ndp get in this election will further delay your party's dreams.Your party and the liberals need taxes from the average working Canadian,but if either of you are left in a power position too long,the jobs will disappear,and your funding source will diminish greatly or be vanished.If your party wants to exist at all,you and your fellow socialists should think twice before they mark an X that might spell their demise.

I can't even begin to do decipher this mangled syntax enough to respond.

Do you know the difference between a socialist and a communist? They are one and the same. The only difference is that the socialist is less mature. Are you advocating communism for our country? Why? So that we can align ourselves with Cuba?

Bzzt! Wrong! There are many, many differnt varietie sof socialism. just as consvatives have various subgroups (like anarcho-capitalist libertarians), so too does socialism.

We have two parties now in Canada that could form the next government... Liberals and Conservatives.

In other words: do you want to be f**ked softly or f**ked hard?

Marx and Engels used those words interchangeably.

Marx used socialism to describe a phase of human society that would follow capitalism and precede communism (communism being a classless society in which all property is owned by the community as a whole and where all people enjoy equal social and economic status).

[Hugo]

Marx used socialism to describe a phase of human society that would follow capitalism and precede communism

"The Socialist and Communist systems... spring into existence in the early undeveloped period... of the struggle between proletariat and bourgeoisie."

"The significance of Critical-Utopian Socialism and Communism bears an inverse relation to historical development."

5 minutes in my copy of Manifesto of the Communist Party found those quotes. What's your source?

[Bro]

PS: Why is there no www.whatjacklaytonsaid.ca? Maybe because nobody cares what Layton says?

The Liberals have an anti-Jack site too, called "Say Anything Jack."

Whether you like it or not,you need a conservative win,so that in another four years you will have some federal tax money to play with again,to promote your left of center dreams.The more votes the liberals or ndp get in this election will further delay your party's dreams.Your party and the liberals need taxes from the average working Canadian,but if either of you are left in a power position too long,the jobs will disappear,and your funding source will diminish greatly or be vanished.If your party wants to exist at all,you and your fellow socialists should think twice before they mark an X that might spell their demise.

I can't even begin to do decipher this mangled syntax enough to respond.

Do you know the difference between a socialist and a communist? They are one and the same. The only difference is that the socialist is less mature. Are you advocating communism for our country? Why? So that we can align ourselves with Cuba?

Bzzt! Wrong! There are many, many differnt varietie sof socialism. just as consvatives have various subgroups (like anarcho-capitalist libertarians), so too does socialism.

We have two parties now in Canada that could form the next government... Liberals and Conservatives.

In other words: do you want to be f**ked softly or f**ked hard?

Marx and Engels used those words interchangeably.

Marx used socialism to describe a phase of human society that would follow capitalism and precede communism (communism being a classless society in which all property is owned by the community as a whole and where all people enjoy equal social and economic status).

Seems pretty straightforward to me,common sense when governments are spending tax money,but that might be above you,considering your political leanings.

[phgnome]

Does it seem to everyone that all the existing parties have shifted right? There is no left party to balance the whole thing. That's pretty scary. We used to have PC's at the right, Liberals in the middle, and NDP leaning left. But Liberal policies seem to have shifted towards right of center and PC's have gone far right where the Alliance party was (the shift towards more right was more evident when they actually merged the two parties), and NDP seems to have gone towards the middle.

I'll admit NDP used to bow to the unions a lot but I don't feel that's the case anymore. We need a left party to balance the whole thing because all the parties are too right leaning and there is no voice representing far left to put a check on all the right-leaning policies being introduced in government.

Scary times these are, I tell ya.

[Alliance Fanatic]

Is anybody else getting sick of these goddamn left wingers bemoaning about how their are no left wing parties to stem the tide of right wing thinking. I mean Canada is one of the most left leaning countries in the world for godsakes, criminals first justice system, government sponsored multiculturalism, political correctness enforced by human rights boards, legalized prostitution, age of consent at 14, pedophilia considered as art, gay marriage, and decriminalization of marijuana, not to mention progressive taxes. So can you left wingers shut up about Canada moving to the right, maybe if we moved to the right, Canadian's could actually have pride in the country that Canadian's fought and died for, a country that the left wing hates.

I mean, what do you guys want the communists to come in to the political field or what. Not to mention I get sick of people praising Trudeau as the man who made us what we are, oh yeah he was the one that DID'NT fight for this country, and mocked those who joined up with the army to fight the nazis. My grandfather lived in a country were the family was valued. We also all valued hard work.

What, do you guys want everybody to be poor in the name of equality, last time I remember the NDP wants to tax those that work their asses off to provide a good standard of living to their families.

[Michael Hardner]

Is anybody else getting sick of these goddamn left wingers bemoaning about how their are no left wing parties to stem the tide of right wing thinking. I mean Canada is one of the most left leaning countries in the world for godsakes,

Economically, this is not the case. Compare us against similar economies and democratic systems and we have lower tax rates than many.

criminals first justice system, government sponsored multiculturalism, political correctness enforced by human rights boards, legalized prostitution, age of consent at 14, pedophilia considered as art, gay marriage, and decriminalization of marijuana, not to mention progressive taxes.

The progressive tax system exists in pretty much all of the Western economies.

As far as the issues things you mention, we're probably around the same as many European countries.

Harper's position on marijuana decriminalization seems to be pretty similar to Martin's now, and I wonder how many of those other issues will be mentioned by him during the campaign.

So can you left wingers shut up about Canada moving to the right, maybe if we moved to the right, Canadian's could actually have pride in the country that Canadian's fought and died for, a country that the left wing hates.

You're projecting your own feelings about the country over the whole populace here, I think.

I mean, what do you guys want the communists to come in to the political field or what.

As I mentioned in another post, even the Communists have moved to the right. In the 2000 election, they weren't even advocating mass nationalization of industries which has been a Communist manstay.

Not to mention I get sick of people praising Trudeau as the man who made us what we are, oh yeah he was the one that DID'NT fight for this country, and mocked those who joined up with the army to fight the nazis. My grandfather lived in a country were the family was valued. We also all valued hard work.

What, do you guys want everybody to be poor in the name of equality, last time I remember the NDP wants to tax those that work their asses off to provide a good standard of living to their families.

I think they're looking more towards restoring tax rates for the very rich to where they were ten, fifteen years ago.

[Michael Hardner]

Communist Party of Canada Platform

Here's a referrence.

Far from advocating nationalization of ALL industry, or nationalization of LARGE industry, the Communists are advocating corporate tax rates be set at... 19 % !

That's a pretty good sign that things are shifting to the right, economically anyway.

Socially, the west has been shifting away from religious values for at least fifty years. I don't know that the left can be blamed for something that's so globally pervasive.

[Bro]

Well,as far as I can see,this country is about as far left as it can be.In my opinion,this is not the direction prior generations had in mind when building this great country.

[Michael Hardner]

Bro:

Your statement is evocative but meaningless.

Would the average citizen in 1867 have the opportunities that we have today ? I doubt it.

[Free Thinker]

Actually Alliance Fanatic the vast majority (>70%)of Canadians are left Wing being that the liberal, ndp, greens, and Bloc are all left wing. The Cons with there 27% repersent Canada's right, a number too small to ever form a government.

The left wing loves Canada, it's right wing fanatics and people like Alliance Fanatic that hate it.

[Alliance Fanatic]

No, its more like 40% are right wing, 40% are left wing, and 20% are centrist. Look at the polls and I'll be proven right. As for how the right wing hates Canada, was'nt Trudeau the one that said that Canada was as bad as the nazis in 1940, and supported the Chinese Communists, even as they were helping kill Canadian soldiers. Trudeau hated Canada, and made it in his own image.

So I guess that you must believe that children getting raped is art, and that Robine Sharpe is an artist my liberal friend.

You must also believe that it is okay for a 14 year old girl to have sexual relations with 45 year old.

So the right wing wants to protect people from scum, the left wing lets the scum come after the innocents.

[Michael Hardner]

Trudeau hated Canada

Trudeau hated Canada ? The Prime Minister of Canada hated his own country ? Wow.

So he entered politics and devoted his life to it because he hated his country ? Strange behavior, but if you really believe this then you must admire his ability to conceal this fact from the public at large for so many years, even if he did fail to destroy his country during his term of office.

Seriously, though, if you're not interested in even trying to present facts and reasonable arguments you should find another forum. FreeDominion is chock full of people who enjoy posting things like "Trudeau hated Canada" "Martin hates Canada" to the general agreement of all.

This forum is for debate.

[playfullfellow]

Team Martin figures that what worked in the past will work in the present so they will try the smear campaign again. It worked very well with Day nad even managed to split the party itself. The only reason that the Libs are not attacking the NDP in the same way is that they do not fear the NDP as being a threat. If the NDP was in the position of being a serious threat to the Libs, then you would see Layton smeared the same way. Right now the Libs are not saying anything about the NDP because if they end up with a minority government, then they will need the NDP. Is the average Canadian going to fall for this crap again? I doubt it because the Liberals look openly dishonest right now and will receive some backlash from the public at election time. The public debates is where the politicians will make or break their political futures and with 3 green (newbies) guys at the helm of each party, it should be interesting to watch.

Websites that are about what he said and what they said are a small portion of the whole election campaign. It is just another smear tactic. Just as an example, MS has his own personal Consevative smear campaign going here. Does anyone here take his opinions seriously? (that was not meant as an insult) BUT MS does open some very interesting threads to discuss from all angles and we do see a very wide variety of opions due to MS's view and smear campaign. It is all a matter of who has the best offence and defense like a good nail biting hockey game. In the end, people will vote for whoever they feel will benefit them the most via the wallet.

[Michael Hardner]

I doubt it because the Liberals look openly dishonest right now and will receive some backlash from the public at election time.

Harper took a new tack on the scandal in his opening statements today.

He put the onus on Canadians to be responsibe, to make them feel that they had a duty to hold the government responsible for the scandal. A very smart political move, IMO.

[Kliege]

The leadership debate is going to be so importent in this election.

[Free Thinker]

A child getting raped is not art, it's a criminal offence under the criminal code of Canada. And yes I belive that a 14 year old is old enough to consent to sex.