Just one more dead soldier

eyeball · October 31, 2009

...and you don't want your current form of government to work whenever there is an issue that you disagree with.
I'll bet you don't even vote!

You'd lose that bet and I strongly suspect you'd advise the government to ignore the will of the people, should it ever become known what it is.

Wilber · October 31, 2009

You'd lose that bet and I strongly suspect you'd advise the government to ignore the will of the people, should it ever become known what it is.

That's what elections are for. Why have a Parliament at all?

bush_cheney2004 · October 31, 2009

As to my "impotence", when I say "leaders", that includes all of them in this alliance, Canada, Britain, France, Italy, USA, and other. I picked on Obama in particular, as there's been some talk lately about him dithering on the decision. There is no reason to wait on his decision, for the outcome of another corrupt Afghani election. I say he IS dithering. Mr. Bush would have made a decision much sooner. Probably, the WRONG one, but a decision no less.

Yet you are ignoring the previously made decision in Ottawa.....2011. Perhaps in some far flung hope that Obama will rescue you from your own decision....marvelous. That's what I mean by impotence.

So you are fretting about the dithering of another national leadership while ignoring the decisions that were already made by Canada's government.

No decision is also the wrong one, in my view. But it probably wouldn't have saved these lads from being just another statistic.

Correct....the soldier's "decisions" are held in higher regard.

M.Dancer · October 31, 2009

What a nice looking kid. He should be playing on my hockey team, not dead in some bleak dusty hell hole.

He wasn't a kid

Sapper Steven Marshall, 24,

He was a man.

M.Dancer · October 31, 2009

Wait a minute. Those people had the Taliban running the country with the help from the west(USA) to fight the Russians .....

No they didn't but why start letting facts get in the way of a Topaz post....

M.Dancer · October 31, 2009

I can't imagine anything that would transcend political partisanship better than holding a public referendum before deciding to go to war. Then the people would really own it don't you think?

Why? Your whining is cheaper and a heck of a lot funnier.

Sir Bandelot · October 31, 2009

He wasn't a kid
He was a man.

He was.

More a man than most of you. Or anyone who works on the hill, thats for sure.

And now he's food for the worms

M.Dancer · October 31, 2009

He was.
And now he's food for the worms

We will all be. Few will even be of service to their country.

Topaz · November 1, 2009

Tonight, on the Fifth Estate, they did a story of 3 former military guys, that fought in Afghanistan and the living hell each was going through with the stress after coming home. One of them said he joined and he thought it was going to be like you see in the movies, since he hadn't been in the military how did he know it was nothing like it at all. They had guilt of not dying, wondering why didn't I, why did he have to and putting up a front of being strong at all times, cause after all you are a SOLDIER and soldiers don't cry or show weakness. Some of theses people who come home won't be able to live with what they experience over there and they will kill themselves. The present government won't say how many have and Senator Romeo ?, is trying to help these people and the new General is also. The Senator said that the Nam war, 55,000 lost their lives but by 1997, over 100,000 had commit suicide. No one wins in a war and the scars go on forever.

bush_cheney2004 · November 1, 2009

...... The Senator said that the Nam war, 55,000 lost their lives but by 1997, over 100,000 had commit suicide. No one wins in a war and the scars go on forever.

I guess the Senator didn't include the NVA or Viet Cong.

Wilber · November 1, 2009

I think I'll buy This Book

bush_cheney2004 · November 1, 2009

I think I'll buy This Book

Salute !

Topaz · November 1, 2009

I guess the Senator didn't include the NVA or Viet Cong.

Now that you mentioned that, one has to wonder how the Taliban mental out look is too. Having a very different life style from the west, and seeing more wars than the soldiers from the west would probably give them more of advantage , would it not? Are their suicide bombers, a way of expressing their stress?

wulf42 · November 1, 2009

I can t believe the comments on here........honestly it s a war what did you think would happen??

of course we will take losses but in comparison to ww2 they are light, unfortunately when you sign

up for the Army you are told right from the start you could be killed...it was a risk these brave

young men took.....this i a just fight! it is our freedoms and liberty against low life Ilsamic Militants

trying to set up terrorist training bases to attack the west!

Sir Bandelot · November 1, 2009

this i a just fight! it is our freedoms and liberty against low life Ilsamic Militants
trying to set up terrorist training bases to attack the west!

Keep repeating that to yourself, to make sure you actually believe it.

It might have been a "just" fight eight years ago when this started, but it has dragged on and is going the wrong way. If our butthead leaders had done the right thing from the beginning, this war would be over now. But in typical Canadian style we marginalized our troops by not providing enough resources to win it effectively. Thats why it drags on and on, like cruel slow death. Yet, they clearly have the resources to pay big companies and banks, to the tune of billions of dollars, and came up with the cash very quickly too. Thats injustice, and the leadership should be blamed and made to pay for their mistakes. If they did it right, many of these soldiers would not have to die, let alone the civilians. This war should have been over by now.

But you don't get that simple fact, do you, keyboard jockey boy. You just keep chatting away about how you think its a good thing.

I ask, I implore our government to end this fight now.

Sir Bandelot · November 1, 2009

Perhaps in some far flung hope that Obama will rescue you from your own decision....marvelous. That's what I mean by impotence.
So you are fretting about the dithering of another national leadership while ignoring the decisions that were already made by Canada's government.

You don't get it, do you. Let me be clear about this- it's not about the GOP vs Dems here, at all. It's about the colour of that flag you're waving.

bush_cheney2004 · November 1, 2009

You don't get it, do you. Let me be clear about this- it's not about the GOP vs Dems here, at all. It's about the colour of that flag you're waving.

And you just don't get it either....stop worrying about the flag, the colour, or whatever else "we" are doing.

Own your decisions...and the process that created them.

The Americans can not rescue you from yourself.

M.Dancer · November 1, 2009

I ask, I implore our government to end this fight now.

The fight will go on whether we collectively woman out or not.

Implore the Taliban, they respect women

Sir Bandelot · November 1, 2009

The fight will go on whether we collectively woman out or not.
Implore the Taliban, they respect women

"Woman out", is a denigrating sexist comment. Can't you think of a better adjective? Too late for you, you deluded macho man. As indicated previously your credibility = zero. And now, respect = zero too...

But let me be clear about what I'm saying. This war should be brought to a swift end, not dragged on in the sickly fashion it has been. This war is fought by half measures.

If the war can be won quickly with a massive surge, so be it, get it done. If there is any confidence left to do so. But now it seems that there isn't, not because the troops are not willing and able, but because the same weak leadership that carried it to this point still continue to sit on their hands. They are too ham-strung by their own pathetic political entanglements to make such brave decisions. I seriously doubt that they have the mental capacity, or the will to do it.

And if not, then some kind of negotiating option should be considered. In other words negotiate with the Taliban. They probably have too many of their own political elements in the Afghanistan government anyway for this to be ignored.

And BC, no I don't have any faith or confidence in your new president. He's sitting on the fence too, with his 40,000 troops. Or is it 60,000, or 80,000, or 90,000. All those numbers have been making the media rounds. McCrystal said it clearly, if you can't give us the numbers we need, don't bother giving us anything less. No more war by half measures. Yet lately we hear exactly that. Maybe SOME troops, maybe a smaller surge. Bullshit, from weak minded bureaucrats.

bush_cheney2004 · November 1, 2009

And BC, no I don't have any faith or confidence in your new president. He's sitting on the fence too, with his 40,000 troops. Or is it 60,000, or 80,000, or 90,000. All those numbers have been making the media rounds. McCrystal said it clearly, if you can't give us the numbers we need, don't bother giving us anything less. No more war by half measures. Yet lately we hear exactly that. Maybe SOME troops, maybe a smaller surge. Bullshit, from weak minded bureaucrats.

Sir, no matter what or when that number may be, it is vastly more than Canada's contribution (and has been since Day +1), and Americans do not look to Ottawa to save the day, as Canada's departure date has already been set in stone.

Your absence of faith in my or any other president is irrelevant. Mind your own knitting.

M.Dancer · November 2, 2009

"Woman out", is a denigrating sexist comment. Can't you think of a better adjective?

The fight will on whether we collectively pussy out or not.

There, are your delicate sensitivities less offended by reality?

The fight will go on, we can be part of it or we can sit on the side like frightened old women watching the men ..or we can man up to the job

Edited November 2, 2009 by M.Dancer

GostHacked · November 2, 2009

The only way we can 'man up' to the war and win it, is to flood the place with NATO troops and get the job done. Or will there be another distraction that will take resources away from the mission in Afghanistan?

We can come back to this in another 3 years and we can debate the endless debate then too.

Army Guy · November 2, 2009

He was.
More a man than most of you. Or anyone who works on the hill, thats for sure.

And now he's food for the worms

He was a man who choose to be a soldier, whom believe that there is a higher calling or sense of duty towards ones country, he joined his chosen profession so that he could be apart of that brotherhood that shares the same morals and values that he does....And he gave his life for those beliefs...and they should not be slighted, or reduced to to the term WORM FOOD....

Regardless of what the general population believes this mission is all about...To us soldiers, this is our conflict, our mission, and we are making all the sacrafices....as it has been long forgotten by most Canadians....And for us this is truly the sad part of todays Canadian history....

It might have been a "just" fight eight years ago when this started, but it has dragged on and is going the wrong way. If our butthead leaders had done the right thing from the beginning, this war would be over now. But in typical Canadian style we marginalized our troops by not providing enough resources to win it effectively. Thats why it drags on and on, like cruel slow death. Yet, they clearly have the resources to pay big companies and banks, to the tune of billions of dollars, and came up with the cash very quickly too. Thats injustice, and the leadership should be blamed and made to pay for their mistakes. If they did it right, many of these soldiers would not have to die, let alone the civilians. This war should have been over by now.

We can't just drop this at our governments feet and piont the finger, we are all well aware of how our government works, and what drives them into taking action....and yet they have not done anything, let me rephrase that, they certainly spoke up when some professor accussed our soldiers of mishandling taliban prisoners, it flooded the media, for months, so much so that new policies were written new guidelines set out....and although it proved false , we are still living with the new guide lines....ONE MAN in ottawa made this happen....just one vioce out of millions....

SO while it's nice to piont the finger at our government ....i think Canadians should also take up thier share of the blame....and either spring into action or Shut TFU....like BC said earlier we should own every descision our government makes on our behalf, don't like it change it....use the freedoms that have been given to all of us....sometimes all it takes is to reach down and give them alittle squezze....Sorry ladies....

Our soldiers are waiting as we have been for over 8 years for the majority to reach down and give them a squezze...

take them for alittle test drive either we are at WAR and you support us totally , or we are not and you bring us home.....

Sir Bandelot · November 2, 2009

We can't just drop this at our governments feet and piont the finger, we are all well aware of how our government works, and what drives them into taking action....and yet they have not done anything, let me rephrase that, they certainly spoke up when some professor accussed our soldiers of mishandling taliban prisoners, it flooded the media, for months, so much so that new policies were written new guidelines set out....and although it proved false , we are still living with the new guide lines....ONE MAN in ottawa made this happen....just one vioce out of millions....
SO while it's nice to piont the finger at our government ....i think Canadians should also take up thier share of the blame....and either spring into action or Shut TFU....

Oh yes we can point the finger at them. Someone has to. Canadians are asleep on this issue, either oblivious or don't care. I say its both. Which is part of my criticism in this thread in the first place. But we expect our government to live up to their part of the deal because they are in charge of the money we give them. If our troops must go to war we expect they should have the right equipment, or whatever else is needed to get the job done. Thats what will win and end the war. And thats also brought up plainly by me in this thread. If you didn't read it go back and read it.

Now who else has something to say about this? I don't hear a lot of protest from Canadians about the war, either for it or against it. If this site is an indicator, people would rather argue about flu vaccines, or what should women wear, or other useless (to me) garbage but only a few bother to voice their concerns in these threads. If I, and perhaps a couple of others don't keep raising the war as a topic there wouldn't be much discussion on it, at all.

You say, people should spring into action or stfu, well you know what, you can't have it both ways. This is my small amount of action, to try and criticize whats going on at least it's better than doing nothing. Most people don't even get to hear about it, the media is controlled to keep us from knowing much about whats going on. I get some news from foreign news sites, or try to put the story together from scattered bits of information, but thats because I care enough to take the time to look for it. You won't hear much on CTV news at 6pm.

like BC said earlier we should own every decision our government makes on our behalf, don't like it change it....use the freedoms that have been given to all of us.
Our soldiers are waiting as we have been for over 8 years for the majority to reach down and give them a squezze...

take them for alittle test drive either we are at WAR and you support us totally , or we are not and you bring us home.....

Thats right, thats what I also want to see happen. I outlined those two options, stop trying to win by half-measures. we can't get to a vote, thanks to the political cluster-f*ck we are in this country. and sadly even if we did get a vote, I doubt it matters when the vast majority are only interested in getting the kids to their soccer match on time, and that little suzy's sweater matches with her new pair of corduroys.

Don't tell me to shut up... if it wasn't for me and a few others trying to say something, hardly anyone would know this guy had died, and that we are in a kind of political limbo, putting brakes on the war effort. Heck maybe giving it a final date of 2011 has just exacerbated the problem. There's no need to invest any more into it, since we expect to be getting out of there.