Time to cut down immigration?

[Hydraboss]

Safety inspector? Building inspector? Ever seen a Chinese owned apartment complex? Maintenance isn't #1 on the runway.

He has a one year certificate in OH&S from Manitoba. Newbie.

[DogOnPorch]

Incan empire at it's peak 2,000,000 sq km and 20 millon people

That's the Inca Empire. But you can have Incan myths...Incan gold. It was the largest...but nowhere like Rome at its height. Nobody knows if there was 20 million people. Estimates range from 1 million to 40 million depending on what source one uses. Since it is such a wide margin, we really don't know how many Inca there were.

and size is irrelevant, do we question the tiny Greek city states contribution to knowledge?.. and Eygpt was quite small as well but it had great regional importance but that was a western bias as it held no importance for far eastern asian cultures...

Hellenic civilization at its height included all the known world. See Alexander and the Diadochi.

you may find roads following ancient routes but they don't use their base construction for any modern roads...

Not the M4, but quite a few are. Fosse Way was one I remember...Watling Street another. Hard Knot Pass another still. Britain was crisscrossed with Roman roads. Upon further research, both the A2 and A5 in the UK are major highways built on top of Roman roads. So I guess you're wrong...again.

[Argus]

So this would be an eternal thing...unaffected by outside influences? Why are some countries steaming crap-holes while others are like Canada?

Culture. And by culture I don't mean violins and sculptures. The culture of a people is what I'm talking about, their values and behaviour. Ours is simply better than theirs, more sophisticated, a combination of American and British with a little French thrown in for Quebec (which is why they're both more laid-back and more inept financially).

[Argus]

I'm sure there are a variety of reasons, but I don't think that bringing immigrants here and allowing them to become part of this country is going to cause it to become second rate.

Depends on what type of immigrant, and how many.

I think you'll agree that if we brought over 100 million Indians, this country would not much resemble what it is now. Culture, language, laws, would all change and we would be much more like India than Canada.

Now, of course, no one is suggesting bringing over 100 million people. However, the point remains the same. The more we bring over, the more we are like them and the less like us.

Unless....

We don't bring over too many too fast, and we focus on bringing people over who are intent on leaving behind their old ways and aclimimating to Canada, including embracing its culture and values.

Whenever I meet or see a visible minority who has obviously grown up here and appears to hold the same attitudes and beliefs as the Canadian mainstream I get a feeling that immigration can work. Unfortunately, I rarely see such people.

[Argus]

There's no proof of that and there's no reason to think so. The trend in North America is for ever higher standards, especially when it comes to safety.

I'm not doubting our standards. However, I think that a lot of our rules are based on the honour system. It is actuallyt the same here at my agency. One of the things we've been scrambling to update is our detection and compliance programs in light of determined, widespread fraud from certain ethnic communities mainly focussed around Toronto and Vancouver. The government will never say so publicly, but at the Agency, it is talked about frequently and openly in meetings to discuss systems improvements and screening criteria to detect fraud.

[wyly]

That's the Inca Empire. But you can have Incan myths...Incan gold. It was the largest...but nowhere like Rome at its height. Nobody knows if there was 20 million people. Estimates range from 1 million to 40 million depending on what source one uses. Since it is such a wide margin, we really don't know how many Inca there were.

so 20 million is a good middle estimate , size is irrelevant Inca was smaller than many but larger than many othersRome was tiny compared to other empires...Rome 5mil sq Km, Mongol 33mil sq km

Hellenic civilization at its height included all the known world. See Alexander and the Diadochi.

Alexander's emipre collapsed and disintergrated with his death so it lasted what 9 yrs? and "all known world" is a western bias, those in India a China and the americas were known from their own perspective...those in China

Not the M4, but quite a few are. Fosse Way was one I remember...Watling Street another. Hard Knot Pass another still. Britain was crisscrossed with Roman roads. Upon further research, both the A2 and A5 in the UK are major highways built on top of Roman roads. So I guess you're wrong...again.

read my post earlier post, using the same route is not the same as using the same road...roman roads averaged 8 feet accross were built for foot traffic and carts, not modern multi ton vehicles...engineers are not going to rely roman technology to support multi lane roadways with large vehicles...

I'm rarely wrong

[wyly]

Unfortunately, I rarely see such people.

you obviously don't get out much...

[DogOnPorch]

so 20 million is a good middle estimate , size is irrelevant Inca was smaller than many but larger than many othersRome was tiny compared to other empires...Rome 5mil sq Km, Mongol 33mil sq km

Being that all of Europe circa 900AD was about 20 million, I'd say the Inca Empire was much smaller in size population-wise due to numerous factors...climate, sickness, warfare, human sacrifice, etc. But, you're rarely wrong.

Alexander's emipre collapsed and disintergrated with his death so it lasted what 9 yrs? and "all known world" is a western bias, those in India a China and the americas were known from their own perspective...those in China

Best read up on the Diadochi, Alexander's successors...they were Greek/Macedonian and lasted some 400 years until Cleopatra and the Battle of Actium. But, why bother? You're rarely wrong. BTW...the word is 'disintegrated'. No 'R' after the 'E'. I assume you merely transposed a few letters re: your spelling of 'empire'. But, why am I pointing out spelling errors to you? You're rarely wrong, after all.

read my post earlier post, using the same route is not the same as using the same road...roman roads averaged 8 feet accross were built for foot traffic and carts, not modern multi ton vehicles...engineers are not going to rely roman technology to support multi lane roadways with large vehicles...

Somebody has never driven on English roads, I gather. Eight feet is about right for oh...85% of UK's roads. Fosse Way and Watling Street, etc are exceedingly narrow. But, why bother explaining that to you as you're rarely wrong.

I'm rarely wrong

I should have realized that you are capable of changing things to suit your whims. Impressive. So if you so desire, does 5+5=12 ? Can you pick winning Loto numbers, as well? I'd be interested in exploiting you if so.

Edited October 20, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[wyly]

Being that all of Europe circa 900AD was about 20 million, I'd say the Inca Empire was much smaller in size population-wise due to numerous factors...climate, sickness, warfare, human sacrifice, etc. But, you're rarely wrong.

900ad Incan empire was 15th and 16th population of europe was 80-100 million you were WRONG! population of the america's in 1492 have been estimated as high as 112 million...

Best read up on the Diadochi, Alexander's successors...they were Greek/Macedonian and lasted some 400 years until Cleopatra and the Battle of Actium. But, why bother? You're rarely wrong. BTW...the word is 'disintegrated'. No 'R' after the 'E'. I assume you merely transposed a few letters re: your spelling of 'empire'. But, why am I pointing out spelling errors to you? You're rarely wrong, after all.

these were separate countries and not an empire, countries that actually warred with each other... Macedonia and Eygpt were not the same countryagain you are WRONG you point out spelling because you have spell check lol! where as I'm visually impaired...

Somebody has never driven on English roads, I gather. Eight feet is about right for oh...85% of UK's roads. Fosse Way and Watling Street, etc are exceedingly narrow. But, why bother explaining that to you as you're rarely wrong.

8' is common for many european roads that doesn't make them all roman...and you can't read I clearly stated that roman roads are not used for modern road bases and that modern roads still do follow roman routes...so once again you are WRONG! and you're reading comprehension sucks...

don't you just hate when I'm right

Edited October 20, 2009 by wyly

[DogOnPorch]

No point arguing with a revisionist.

[whowhere]

And who says that we are now? We are one of the wealthiest countries on earth with one of the highest standards of living. There's nothing second rate about Canada.

40 percent more at the pumps for Gas than the US

8.99 US for 24 cans of bud 5% alcohol, 44 Can for same beer.

Canadians get 8 to 12 stats many European Countries get in excess of 20, The UK has twenty, go figure.

Canadians get two weeks that they have to beg and scream for, in Germany, France, Sweden, they get six weeks vacation.

Denmark with their oil rich wealth went about buying cars for those that needed them. Canadians get world oil prices for their oil.

Many arab countries pay for their citizens to go to University abroad. What does Canada do with its resource wealth?

What exactly it is that Canadians get? Canada is bottom feeding Country that aspires to the depths of hell rather than shoot for the heavens. Canada is the land of the devils.

Canada can start by,

Lowering taxes to equal the US. Lower Retail Costs to Equal the US. Increase Stat Holidays to equal the UK. Increase vacation time to equal many european Countries.

Will this happen, not likely, because Canada is full of self centered selfish people looking to sell out the next generation of Canadians just to get what they didn't work for nor deserve. They did this by racking up Canada's national debt, inflating real estate prices through loose credit to the torrent of immigrants and no inheritance tax for the assets passing from the boomers parents to their hands.

Talk about feathering the nest. One thing is for sure boomers figured out all the angles on how to screw anyone and everyone.

[Smallc]

Now go take a look at the HDI. I don't really care how much you have to pay for beer. You whine about nothing.

[M.Dancer]

8.99 US for 24 cans of bud 5% alcohol, 44 Can for same beer.

Same name, different different recipe, different beer.

24 for 37.95

[Michael Hardner]

Whowhere

40 percent more at the pumps for Gas than the US

8.99 US for 24 cans of bud 5% alcohol, 44 Can for same beer.

Canadians get 8 to 12 stats many European Countries get in excess of 20, The UK has twenty, go figure.

Canadians get two weeks that they have to beg and scream for, in Germany, France, Sweden, they get six weeks vacation.

Denmark with their oil rich wealth went about buying cars for those that needed them. Canadians get world oil prices for their oil.

Many arab countries pay for their citizens to go to University abroad. What does Canada do with its resource wealth?

What exactly it is that Canadians get? Canada is bottom feeding Country that aspires to the depths of hell rather than shoot for the heavens. Canada is the land of the devils.

Canada can start by,

Lowering taxes to equal the US. Lower Retail Costs to Equal the US. Increase Stat Holidays to equal the UK. Increase vacation time to equal many european Countries.

Will this happen, not likely, because Canada is full of self centered selfish people looking to sell out the next generation of Canadians just to get what they didn't work for nor deserve. They did this by racking up Canada's national debt, inflating real estate prices through loose credit to the torrent of immigrants and no inheritance tax for the assets passing from the boomers parents to their hands.

Talk about feathering the nest. One thing is for sure boomers figured out all the angles on how to screw anyone and everyone.

Strangely, you want the socialism of Europe with the tax rates of the US.

And Canada is pretty much half way between Europe and the US as it is. Like it ?

[Guest TrueMetis]

Whowhere Canada is number four in the UN's Human development index you don't get much better than that. Canada beats all of the countries you mention, the only countries that do better are #1 Norway, #2 Australia, #3 Iceland (And Iceland was hit pretty hard by the recession). In effect your asking us to make our country worse and to that I have to say, fuck you.

[wyly]

No point arguing with a revisionist.

don't be so hard on yourself I don't mind correcting you, in time you'll learn...

Inca's 10thc

[lictor616]

With Flaherty stating that unemployment rates are expected to rise in to next year is it responsible of our government to allow mass immigration to continue at the rate of 25,000 new Canadians per month?

Perhaps it's time to pare down t he numbers we allow in under certain circumstances. People who are bringing money and starting businesses inot Canada should continue but perhaps it's time to start cutting down or halting altogether allow entry to immigrants who are going straight onto the public dole and are unskilled workers who don't bring skills Canada needs at this time.

I think we need to find jobs for Canada's workers who are unemployed now and are already here instead of allowing more unemployed workers to come here.

With the number of unemployed set to rise into next year maybe it's time to start looking at some measures like this. I don't see how allowing unskilled labour into Canada at this time can possibly help our economy when these new immigrants will need language training, social assistance, government funded housing, etc. Doesn't seem like Canada can afford it right now.

immigration is the most irresponsible way of dealing with unemployment ... instead of creating new jobs ... you merely to foreigners who are highly likely to become government dependents!

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Its just about crunch time people. We all watched the fall of communism, and we are now watching the fall of capitalism. Those two models haven't exactly worked as well as folks thought they would , but the question is what will be next. I will suggest that a hybrid of both would be the next logical step. We are half way there now, yet I think that this too will prove to be a failure.

It is my belief that we need to separate the economy from politics the same way we separated religion from politics. We need to realize that the two don't mix well.

[DogOnPorch]

don't be so hard on yourself I don't mind correcting you, in time you'll learn...

Inca's 10thc

Says the fellow that spells disintegrate with two 'R's. This suggests while you're a loudmouth and believe your opinion always right...you're simply not.

Many sections of the Fosse Way form parts of modern roads and lanes, and parish, district or county boundaries.

Several place names on the route have the suffix -cester or -chester, which is from the Latin castra meaning military camp. Some settlements are named after the road itself, such as Fosse-, or -on-Fosse, while others have a more generic form, such as Street, Strete, -le-Street, Stratton, Stretton, Stratford, and Stretford, from the Latin strata, meaning paved road.

Traveled it myself. As well as numerous other Roman roads in Britain...like this one. I guess they moved the fort for the tourists.

You may now continue to be almost always right.

[whowhere]

Whowhere

Strangely, you want the socialism of Europe with the tax rates of the US.

And Canada is pretty much half way between Europe and the US as it is. Like it ?

Oh, I forgot to mention the $1800 US bush gave to families before he left office. Every American received $600 each and kids received $300. Oddly, Canadians get taxed like Europe and receive less than Americans.

It's not hard to see how Canada is led by donkeys.

http://www.labor.state.ny.us/workerprotect...ards/faq.shtm#0

Q: What is the current minimum wage in New York State?

A: For covered employees, the New York State Minimum Wage rate is $7.15 per hour. The Minimum Wage will increase to $7.25 per hour on July 24, 2009.

http://www.michigan.gov/dleg/0,1607,7-154-27673---,00.html

For michigan the minimum wage is $7.40.

Ontario is $9.50 soon to be going to 10.25. All this does is drive up the cost of retail prices and stalls the economy. On the one hand Canada wants to have an economy tied to the US but it screws business with $2.00 or more an hour, in turn hurting Canada's competitveness. Maybe Canada's minimum wage should be tied to the value of the dollar to keep business costs equal. If wages are equal and the dollar is at par, Canadians should get equal retail prices. With a dollar at par, Canada's businesses are to expensive and has to logically increase unemployment.

Canada fails to justify why it has higher taxes and retail costs over the US. What does Canada have? Comparing Canada to the US, Canada is a horse and buggy country, the US is the jetson family, hovering around in flying cars. They have well maintained interstate highways and state parks. They have a vast military and coast guard. The world as we know it, including the internet, and the software which makes mapleleafweb possible, is american inovation. I fail to see what Canada and Canadians have brought to the table in the last twenty years. In the cosmic order of things Canada and Canadians do not deserve to be regarded by the world as they have brought nothing and have contribute nothing to the evolution of the world. Really Canada and Canadians are parasites and disease to the world that requires vacination against.

Canada is this way because of the garbage political parties we have, the conservatives and liberals alike. They are not about success and prosperity. They are about corruption and enriching themselvs and their buddies.

[Smallc]

Oddly, Canadians get taxed like Europe and receive less than Americans.

No, we don't. You're quite wrong. We're right in the middle in both regards. You, well you're out in left field.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...rcentage_of_GDP

[whowhere]

Its just about crunch time people. We all watched the fall of communism, and we are now watching the fall of capitalism. Those two models haven't exactly worked as well as folks thought they would , but the question is what will be next. I will suggest that a hybrid of both would be the next logical step. We are half way there now, yet I think that this too will prove to be a failure.

It is my belief that we need to separate the economy from politics the same way we separated religion from politics. We need to realize that the two don't mix well.

Actually what we are is a democratic capital economy. The democracy creates the laws/rules of engagement. The capital from our collective fruits of our labour is provided as a wheel of economics. North America is filled with corrupt politicians and judiciaries. Although the US is guilty of being slack, they are busy indicting and sending people to jail. Canada usually looks the other way for most white collar corruption. Because Canada's politicians and bureacrats over the last 30 years have played God on Canada they have wrecked Canada's democratic voice. Because Canada's democratic voice has been watered by immigrants it has weakened Canadians demands of increasing expectation as to what they should have beein getting from the government over the years. In this communist era of Canadian Government entitlement crats, => Canada is over run by high taxes with no regard and enforcement for the rules created by the democratically elected politicians.

Capitalism works. Democracy works. They can't work if the political parties such as the Liberals and Conservatives are corrupt. Nor Can Capatalism and Democracy work if the Governance and Judiciary is also Corrupt.

I know Canada is a extremely corrupt Country. The axiom of right/wrong is beyond Canada but replaced with political jockeying to extract Canada's wealth for the benefit of the narrow few tied with the political winner. Under this, Canada is doomed to continue to spiral further into the immigration sess pool of shit.

[Oleg Bach]

Family must stick together and be loyal to it's national members. When times get tough you have to downsize..whether it be national family or personal. Sure we want to help the rest of the world and welcome in the desperate and down trodden...but we are approaching the neccesity of going into survival mode.

[whowhere]

Family must stick together and be loyal to it's national members. When times get tough you have to downsize..whether it be national family or personal. Sure we want to help the rest of the world and welcome in the desperate and down trodden...but we are approaching the neccesity of going into survival mode.

Canada can start by chopping federal Government Costs. If this means wage and pension adjustments to the federal labour force to get Canada's finances back in the black, get on it.

Sadly, we have a conservative government that refuses to cut government costs to restore the solvency of Canada. Harper wants to follow in Mulroneys steps of taking Canada from 100 Billion to 600 Billion in debt and leaving office with a 40 Billion dollar deficit. Because of this Canada got kicked with the introduction of the GST. A tax the US is able to function without. Over the years Canada got its finances in order but refused to scrap the GST at the height of Canada's prosperity to put Canada on par with the US. In this rise of prosperity Canada had a chance to scrap the GST and sell debt to the world (as the US and the UK did). Now that the economies have tanked the US and the the UK have been paying these debts back with printed money. Can't fix stupid. Had Canada been pushing debt out to the world in tandem with the US and the UK and burying that money in a mattress for this global collapse, they could have paid back Muloroneys 600 Billion in Debt with the money in the Mattress and went to the printing press as the US and UK to pay off the rest of the debt.

Had the conservatives and liberals had a brain between them Canada would be sitting debt free right now and riding a soaring dollar in tandem with Canada's oil and fertilizer exports. The fact is, the Liberals and Conservatives have cost Canada 1 trillion dollars in lost wealth.

Canada is to expunge itself of the haters and grab prosperity by the horns. The conservatives and the liberals couldn't navigate themselves out of wet paper bag.

[Oleg Bach]

Canada can start by chopping federal Government Costs. If this means wage and pension adjustments to the federal labour force to get Canada's finances back in the black, get on it.

Sadly, we have a conservative government that refuses to cut government costs to restore the solvency of Canada. Harper wants to follow in Mulroneys steps of taking Canada from 100 Billion to 600 Billion in debt and leaving office with a 40 Billion dollar deficit. Because of this Canada got kicked with the introduction of the GST. A tax the US is able to function without. Over the years Canada got its finances in order but refused to scrap the GST at the height of Canada's prosperity to put Canada on par with the US. In this rise of prosperity Canada had a chance to scrap the GST and sell debt to the world (as the US and the UK did). Now that the economies have tanked the US and the the UK have been paying these debts back with printed money. Can't fix stupid. Had Canada been pushing debt out to the world in tandem with the US and the UK and burying that money in a mattress for this global collapse, they could have paid back Muloroneys 600 Billion in Debt with the money in the Mattress and went to the printing press as the US and UK to pay off the rest of the debt.

Had the conservatives and liberals had a brain between them Canada would be sitting debt free right now and riding a soaring dollar in tandem with Canada's oil and fertilizer exports. The fact is, the Liberals and Conservatives have cost Canada 1 trillion dollars in lost wealth.

Canada is to expunge itself of the haters and grab prosperity by the horns. The conservatives and the liberals couldn't navigate themselves out of wet paper bag.

To be honest I agree. As long as we are down here hating the banksters just love the economic and social fog of war that results. You know and I know that both conservative and liberal have to answer to our quite and very skilled elite. Vote as you wish but the young boy who wanted his own bank now has his own hobby farm called Canada. That's what I see. As a kid I believed in the mutual co-operation of mankind. I believed in friendship and closing the gaps world wide - but I learned that the sytem thrives on adversity. Adversity is the glue that devides. Even the mythical Satan figure was called the ADVESARY....and this mentality is what rules the planet.