Time to cut down immigration?

[Mr.Canada]

Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said he expects uncomfortably high levels of unemployment to persist "well into" next year, and that he is prepared to do more to help the jobless if the problem becomes worse than he currently foresees.

Source

With Flaherty stating that unemployment rates are expected to rise in to next year is it responsible of our government to allow mass immigration to continue at the rate of 25,000 new Canadians per month?

Perhaps it's time to pare down t he numbers we allow in under certain circumstances. People who are bringing money and starting businesses inot Canada should continue but perhaps it's time to start cutting down or halting altogether allow entry to immigrants who are going straight onto the public dole and are unskilled workers who don't bring skills Canada needs at this time.

I think we need to find jobs for Canada's workers who are unemployed now and are already here instead of allowing more unemployed workers to come here.

With the number of unemployed set to rise into next year maybe it's time to start looking at some measures like this. I don't see how allowing unskilled labour into Canada at this time can possibly help our economy when these new immigrants will need language training, social assistance, government funded housing, etc. Doesn't seem like Canada can afford it right now.

[Smallc]

Perhaps not.

[Mr.Canada]

Perhaps not.

Please explain how in times when the unemployment rate is going up it is responsible to allow the poorest of immigrants to come to Canada and live off of the public purse.

[Smallc]

It would be short sighted to change policy because of a recession that is already over. Stopping immigration now would put as at a disadvantage in terms of skilled workers later.

[Argus]

It would be short sighted to change policy because of a recession that is already over. Stopping immigration now would put as at a disadvantage in terms of skilled workers later.

There's no evidence to support this as the vast, vast majority of immigrants are not skilled workers.

They drive taxis, clean floors, wait on tables, and operate convenience stores.

[noahbody]

Immigration needs to be fixed. Bring in immigrants who value and can contribute to Canada. Bring in doctors and other professionals that are needed. No more Suaad Hagi Mohamuds who even make Hedy Fry look smart... well almost. And let's try to weed out the fanatics. Ask pointed questions about training camps, etc so if they lie, there's reason to boot them out. Letting terrorists in and then paying millions of dollars to follow them around isn't a good use of taxpayers' dollars. Of course this is what needs to be done, but try it and the opposition will yell "racist."

[ToadBrother]

Please explain how in times when the unemployment rate is going up it is responsible to allow the poorest of immigrants to come to Canada and live off of the public purse.

Recessions are temporary. Labour shortages are long-term issues that can have substantially damaging effects on the economy.

[Mr.Canada]

Immigration needs to be fixed. Bring in immigrants who value and can contribute to Canada. Bring in doctors and other professionals that are needed. No more Suaad Hagi Mohamuds who even make Hedy Fry look smart... well almost. And let's try to weed out the fanatics. Ask pointed questions about training camps, etc so if they lie, there's reason to boot them out. Letting terrorists in and then paying millions of dollars to follow them around isn't a good use of taxpayers' dollars. Of course this is what needs to be done, but try it and the opposition will yell "racist."

Here, here!

[Michael Hardner]

The topic of immigration and the economy is often a shell game with those who will oppose immigration anyway. If there's a recession, then we should reduce immigration. If there are no jobs, then we should only bring in professionals. If professional jobs are threatened, we should reduce immigration.

A lot of this discussion falls into the 'lump of labour' fallacy that says there are only so many jobs and so much economy to go around. In fact, economic activity is what we're talking about, not dividing up a pie or such. The job bank for Toronto currently lists 1000 jobs

Edited October 4, 2009 by Michael Hardner

[dlkenny]

With Flaherty stating that unemployment rates are expected to rise in to next year is it responsible of our government to allow mass immigration to continue at the rate of 25,000 new Canadians per month?

Perhaps it's time to pare down t he numbers we allow in under certain circumstances. People who are bringing money and starting businesses inot Canada should continue but perhaps it's time to start cutting down or halting altogether allow entry to immigrants who are going straight onto the public dole and are unskilled workers who don't bring skills Canada needs at this time.

I think we need to find jobs for Canada's workers who are unemployed now and are already here instead of allowing more unemployed workers to come here.

With the number of unemployed set to rise into next year maybe it's time to start looking at some measures like this. I don't see how allowing unskilled labour into Canada at this time can possibly help our economy when these new immigrants will need language training, social assistance, government funded housing, etc. Doesn't seem like Canada can afford it right now.

Haha, if Ruby Dhalla has her way we'll have every impoverished person coming here to collect their free OAS pensions and since they won't be required to work it really won't impact the unemployment rate...just the rate at which we are taxed.

[wulf42]

Immigration Policy needs to be redone over completely...letting just anybody in

and giving them free everything must stop, it is time to slam the door on immigration

except for highly skilled persons only!!

Edited October 4, 2009 by wulf42

[punked]

No see this is false premise. There are a finite amount of jobs but when immigrants create jobs for themsleves and Canadians then limiting it would cause more unemployment. Like a Chinese family here operates a booth in the local shopping centre. They Employ themselves and some students. That creates jobs there aren't a finite amount of jobs and immigrants aren't taking Canadians jobs.

[Mr.Canada]

No see this is false premise. There are a finite amount of jobs but when immigrants create jobs for themsleves and Canadians then limiting it would cause more unemployment. Like a Chinese family here operates a booth in the local shopping centre. They Employ themselves and some students. That creates jobs there aren't a finite amount of jobs and immigrants aren't taking Canadians jobs.

I'm not suggesting closing the door to people who are bringing money here to set up business or to skilled workers like Doctors. We need those people. We do not need any more UNSkilled labour, we have enough. With unemployment set to rise Canada has more than enough bodies to fill the positions for unskilled work available. Time to rethink Canada's policy of admitting 25,000 new immigrants a month, it's time to be more selective and only admit what Canada needs.

[wyly]

With Flaherty stating that unemployment rates are expected to rise in to next year is it responsible of our government to allow mass immigration to continue at the rate of 25,000 new Canadians per month?

Perhaps it's time to pare down t he numbers we allow in under certain circumstances. People who are bringing money and starting businesses inot Canada should continue but perhaps it's time to start cutting down or halting altogether allow entry to immigrants who are going straight onto the public dole and are unskilled workers who don't bring skills Canada needs at this time.

I think we need to find jobs for Canada's workers who are unemployed now and are already here instead of allowing more unemployed workers to come here.

With the number of unemployed set to rise into next year maybe it's time to start looking at some measures like this. I don't see how allowing unskilled labour into Canada at this time can possibly help our economy when these new immigrants will need language training, social assistance, government funded housing, etc. Doesn't seem like Canada can afford it right now.

the vast majority of immigrants to Canada are skilled, those who are unskilled are generally refugees or sponsored family members, those unskilled generally take the jobs Canadians will not do regardless...

Canada has ZPG(zero population growth)we need immigartion to to grow in population, lowered immigration equals no growth, a stagnant economy under our present economic system.... something the Cons could not cope with as their free market mentality envisions limitless growth which is impossible...

[Mr.Canada]

the vast majority of immigrants to Canada are skilled, those who are unskilled are generally refugees or sponsored family members, those unskilled generally take the jobs Canadians will not do regardless...

Canada has ZPG(zero population growth)we need immigartion to to grow in population, lowered immigration equals no growth, a stagnant economy under our present economic system.... something the Cons could not cope with as their free market mentality envisions limitless growth which is impossible...

This is bunk and untrue. Canada does not have a zero population growth. What's wrong with having the same population anyways? Does Canada really need more and more people to use up our natural resources?

I've said this in almost everyone of my posts in this topic so I'm not sure why people keep saying it. I know and want Canada toallow skilled workers and people who have money into Canada. In my view that is all we should let in at this time until the unemployment rate improves. We need to look after unemployed Canadians first before trying to help other people from far away lands.

I'm not saying to close all immigration but be more selective so we only allow in exactly what we need. It is Canadians who are unemployed and living in squalor and until that situation improves we need to tell the other poor people of the world to stay home. We send aid to many countries around the world hopefully their government isn't to corrupt that it doesn't help their people with it.

How does letting in immigrants who have zero skills and go right on to the social assistance, uses our health care and other benefits without paying anything at all into the Canadian system help Canada? All this at a time when the unemployment rate is climbing and more and more Canadians are out of work everyday. Explain that to me please.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[Michael Hardner]

This is bunk and untrue. Canada does not have a zero population growth. What's wrong with having the same population anyways? Does Canada really need more and more people to use up our natural resources?

I've said this in almost everyone of my posts in this topic so I'm not sure why people keep saying it. I know and want Canada toallow skilled workers and people who have money into Canada. In my view that is all we should let in at this time until the unemployment rate improves. We need to look after unemployed Canadians first before trying to help other people from far away lands.

I'm not saying to close all immigration but be more selective so we only allow in exactly what we need. It is Canadians who are unemployed and living in squalor and until that situation improves we need to tell the other poor people of the world to stay home. We send aid to many countries around the world hopefully their government isn't to corrupt that it doesn't help their people with it.

How does letting in immigrants who have zero skills and go right on to the social assistance, uses our health care and other benefits without paying anything at all into the Canadian system help Canada? All this at a time when the unemployment rate is climbing and more and more Canadians are out of work everyday. Explain that to me please.

Mr. Canada, you're right. We actually have negative population growth. What's wrong with having the same population ? The economy will get smaller, is one commonly cited reason. Immigration provides economic growth and vibrancy to Canada. By the second generation, children of immigrants will be producing and paying taxes in excess of whatever social support they needed to come here.

Does Canada really need more people to use up our natural resources ? I think your question is immaterial since we export our natural resources anyway. Canadian oil, water and power is consumed by Americans, not just Canadians.

And Canada currently allows skilled workers in, such as doctors and engineers, but they face major barriers to practicing their professions, so they become taxi drivers. How exactly are we going to benefit by allowing more skilled immigrants in if they can't get jobs in their field ?

Your posts seem to reflect tired old beliefs of immigration, but they're useful to the rest of us as we can get good practice in deflecting these common but misguided arguments.

[Mr.Canada]

I think I need to be more clear.

We don;t have negative population growth anymore either. We've been allowing in 250,000 immigranst a year for the last 10 years or more. That's 2.5 million people plus all the illegals. Immigrants on average are having 8.1 children for each family.

Unskilled immigrants aren't needed by Canada at this time. Our unemployment rate is climbing what will non skilled workers give to Canada in terms of monetary value?

[Michael Hardner]

Mr. Canada,

They'll fill jobs at lower wages, that Canadians won't take, and will purchase goods and services with the money they earn.

Here's an article on Canada's fertility rate.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/09/22/...stics-boom.html

It has been below the replacement rate for years.

[Argus]

the vast majority of immigrants to Canada are skilled, those who are unskilled are generally refugees or sponsored family members, those unskilled generally take the jobs Canadians will not do regardless...

It is a fallacy that Canadians will not do those jobs. More properly, Canadians will not do the jobs at the very low wages they command - because of the abundance of unskilled immigrants desperate for work, and who have very low standards for wages.

As for the "skilled workers". Approximately 50,000 out of 250,000 immigrants who came to Canada in 2008 are listed under "primary applicant" in the skilled category. That's 1 skilled person out of ever 5 people who come to Canada. And just how "skilled" they actually are is perhaps under some doubt.

[Mr.Canada]

Mr. Canada,

They'll fill jobs at lower wages, that Canadians won't take, and will purchase goods and services with the money they earn.

Here's an article on Canada's fertility rate.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/09/22/...stics-boom.html

It has been below the replacement rate for years.

If Canada slammed the door on unskilled workers those wages would go up.

[Michael Hardner]

Or those jobs wouldn't be filled and the work wouldn't be done, and there would be less economic activity and prices would go up as well.

[Mr.Canada]

Or those jobs wouldn't be filled and the work wouldn't be done, and there would be less economic activity and prices would go up as well.

It's already been proven that I'm right. People were getting paid $12-13/hr to work in Timmies and MCdonalds in Alberta due to a labour shortage a few years ago. Proof positivethat the companies would be forced to raise wages. If the left wing is really concerned about raising the living wage of entry level workers it would be on side with restricting the number of unskilled workers Canada lets in. The less competition we have in the workforce the more valuable those workers become. Supply and demand.

[Michael Hardner]

Mr. C

Why not restrict trade then as well ? Why have markets at all ? Maybe we should just determine wages through central planning ?

[blueblood]

If the left wing is really concerned about raising the living wage of entry level workers it would be on side with restricting the number of unskilled workers Canada lets in. The less competition we have in the workforce the more valuable those workers become. Supply and demand.

Do you know what hyper-inflation is??

[Mr.Canada]

One doesn't need complex formulas and Igtnatieff-Harvard words and concepts to understand a basic format.

The less people you have to fill positions makes those few people much more valuable. In being so valuable the employer must pay higher wages in order to entice the worker to them.

As it is now there is an overabundance of unskilled labour, the companies pay rock bottom wages and pocket record profits. This is wrong.