Marijuana

[CanadaRocks]

Willy, this last point you've made may well be the most valid and significant ever made in this forum or beyond as to why marijuana remains illeagal.

Currently, we harrass, arrest, prosecute, criminalize, and incarcerate otherwise innocent Canadians not because we truly believe they are a potential threat to our Society, harming themselves or others, but rather because we are afraid we might incur the harrumphs of our neighbors to the south. We are teaching our children ..to be cowards.

Where will it stop? If the United States decides to demand that we draft our young People into their wars we must say yes if we agree or not? If the United States says we must outlaw religion then we must? Where does that line of thinking end willy?

Either we are a soveriegn People who determine for ourselves what is right or wrong based on the facts as we understand them, or we are only cowardly puppets pretending to be soveriegn, slaves of whatever bully who cares to demand we lick their boots.

There is a price for soveriegnty, and that price is standing up for what you hold to be right and true. Are we Canadians, or are we cowards?

[willy]

There is a price for soveriegnty, and that price is standing up for what you hold to be right and true. Are we Canadians, or are we cowards?

I will be a coward if that is what you would determine my course of action would make me. I don't think destroying thousands of jobs, shrinking our economy and hurting our economic ability to provide social services as standing up for the right and true. One must choose what they fight for carefully. This is just a recreational drug.

The US would not determine our course of action. They would be exercising their sovereign right of restricting the access of Canadians within there boarders. Do they not have a sovereign right to disagree with us?

[Black Dog]

The US would not determine our course of action. They would be exercising their sovereign right of restricting the access of Canadians within there boarders. Do they not have a sovereign right to disagree with us

They have a right to disagree with us. They have a right to object to our policy decisions. They do not have a right to bully us into adhering to their own policies. So, while the ramifications of liberalized drug laws should be considered, it should not be the primary consideration. The needs of Canadians should be.

Were Canada take the steps to relaxing its drug laws, I would expect that in such a situation our two nations would be able to come together and work out solutions diplomatically and in accordance with existing agreements without resorting to threats and economic bullying. But then, I probably expect too much...

[jccc]

Willy

Legal or illegal, it ain't goin away!! May as well legalize.....now put that in your pipe & smoke it!!

Jim

[August1991]

The Americans had prohibition and we didn't. They lived with all the bootlegging (of a "drug" that is far more common than marijuana). We have decriminalized (and the smell of marijuana on downtown sidewalks in Montreal is quite common). An Amsterdam situation (c 1960s) is not far.

It is interesting that Revenue Quebec is changing its status in part to collect, I suspect, from such activities.

The US fear factor is greatly, greatly exaggerated. The historical evidence is there.

[theWatcher]

A few thoughts from a different angle.

1. It's considered an illegal substance by the United Nations. Now I am not big on the UN, but it is a world body that is trying to deal with this stuff.

2. I am not aware of any methods that the police can use to detect marijuana impairedness. An equivelant to the breathalizer. People shouldn't be driving, flying, operating, teaching, etc stoned. And there is no legal method to determine this short of blood tests or other invasive tests that can be refused by the subject.

And what about combinations of drugs. .08 alchohol + how much THC means impairment?

3. Some countries shoot people for selling a joint. Yet we are telling our people its ok to do that. Big big difference here. On our side of the line do whatever you want. On their side of the line you get shot in a firing line. Do you think any of our little stoners will ever take a holiday and forget this little point?

4. Crossing the border into the US. They take this stuff pretty seriously down there. If they find one seed in your car they can confiscate your car and any other property they feel like and toss you in jail. Ask Tommy Chong about that some time. I can see the day that the stoner gets out of the American jail and then procedes to sue the Canadian government for $400 million for not protecting him or some other equally stupid reason.

5. How can you make end user consumption legal but leave cultivation/importing/distribution illegal? It makes no sense. You're just giving an incentive for people to perform illegal acts. If you just make it all legal then the consequences could be very dire. Every criminal organization in the world would move to Canada and make it their base of operations.

6. Quality control. I've seen all sorts of sick stuff being laced into marijuana. How do you know what exactly is in that reefer? By having the authorities condone the action or legalize it, what sort of liability is the government incurring if some poor stoner gets his brain fried?

So the government ends up regulating it and you end up with the garbage being grown in Flin Flon that nobody wants anyways.

[Alliance Fanatic]

I don't think that de-criminalizing marijauna displays any courage. All this country is doing is surrendering to the drug dealers. I also doubt that most Canadian's want to become an Amsterdam of the North. I don't really want to live in a country with rampant prostitution and drug abuse, do you???

[willy]

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?...84-b8f1892bddd0

No suprise.

[August1991]

It is wrong to say that the US takes marijuana possession more seriously than Canada. I believe 10 of the 50 States have decriminalized possession of small quantities of marijuana. (And think of San Francisco...)

US Marijuana Info Links

In addition, the UK, Portugal and Belgium have also apparently decriminalized it. In Amsterdam, of course, there are many cafes selling it for consumption on the premises.

Marijuana Info

The Canadian Senate has recommended that marijuana be legalized.

Check out this photo

[KrustyKidd]

If Canadians choose to legalize pot, our boarders will be shut right down. We can make threats of "trade war" but really we are in no position to do that. Threats are only good if you can act on them and we will cripple ourselves economically and socially by fighting this battle. We are interdependent with our neighbors like it or not. I am not willing to take the chance for a recreational drug. If the US had a big problem with soccer balls and they might close our boarders I would have to encourage a new sport.

Let me ask you this: do you really think the U.S would close the borders to Canada if we proceed with marijuana reforms? I doubt it, as the economic costs to the States would be great (probably be greater than the costs of continuing to enforce their stupid drug policies). In other words, by punishing us, they would punish themselves.

So, once we rule out that possibility as a likliehood, what's holding us back? There's no reason we can't address drug law reform while still addressing other priorities. Plus, the money saved from ceasing the pointless drug war would undoubetdly be welcome in a number of other areas.

My business is cross border trade. It adds $$ for border crossings in order to get guys to drive for me and endure two to five times the wait at the border they did before 9 11. If we legalize the stuff the wait will even go up. Yes Black Dog, the trade will continue and the cost of doing so will go up, not only for us, but for them.

That said, they may find that a cheap product might be found in Mexico rather than Canada, in a factory opened up by a person who realizes that cross border trade between Canada and the US makes for a less lucrative business than a more open border between Mexicq and the US, or even the hated Europe.

Serious, there reaches a point where after paying a driver an extra $50 a load to clear US cutoms when it cost $0 before that it adds so much extra expense to a minimally expensive product. When it goes there and beyond, it makes that source of the product more vulnerable to outside competition.

[August1991]

My business is cross border trade. It adds $$ for border crossings in order to get guys to drive for me and endure two to five times the wait at the border they did before 9 11.

That's the tip off, KK. It's security, not drugs.

The Americans are freaking about security, not drugs.

We Canadians should be co-ordinating with Americans all entry of people and goods to North America. For example, we should have a common tourist visa for both countries. We should let Americans participate in entry checks of containers from outside North America.

[d4dev]

What do you want to do? Make Canada a US colony? We already have hardly any indigenious big companies, except for, maybe, a few like Nortel. We've already been colonised economically.

Why not hand over the entire administration of Canada to the US? Then you'll probably be satisfied.

[August1991]

Make Canada a US colony?

Certainly not.

Canada is Canada. Or rather, there are several million people living in northern North America, and several hundred million living in North America.

For collective questions, we Canadians have our own way of doing things and we think this works, more or less. (Les quelques millions de francophones de ce continent méritent autant.)

The club/family next door is worried. What could be better than to say to a neighbour, "Give us the key and we'll check your house. If we see a thief show up, we'll do something."

We Canadians belong to a community. Our community includes those big, loud Americans. True, they're sometimes irritating, but they generally leave us alone.

[d4dev]

The club/family next door is worried. What could be better than to say to a neighbour, "Give us the key and we'll check your house. If we see a thief show up, we'll do something."

That's not what you proposed. Your proposal comes closer to saying "We'll give you the key to our house so that from now on, you can decide to whom we're going to open the door"

[CanadaRocks]

So I reckon when all is said and done about why marijuana's illegal, about why we take otherwise innocent Canadians from their lives, their families to prosecute, imprison and label them criminals its not for valid reasons a thinking ethical Person would respect and agree with.. its for a few dollars more in the pockets of those who value money more than what they think is right.

"For what shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world, yet lose his own soul" ..remember that?

Selling out Canadians freedom for money? sounds a lot like 30 pieces of silver story to me.

Shame on ya.

[maplesyrup]

PM Martin announced today he is going ahead with decriminalizing possession of small amounts of marijuana.

It's about time Canada came out of the Dark Ages on this issue.

[maplesyrup]

Canada goes to pot

[KrustyKidd]

Great! So they have a roadside test for impairment then?

[Stoker]

And a way to stop even longer delays at the boarder crossings?

[caesar]

Why all the concern about the Americans; I don't know why Bush is so concerned. Many American states have already decriminalized marijuana already.

[Cartman]

I think that regardless of what the feds do, people will continue to smoke dope anyways and have no problem getting it. When I was at an Xmas party at Science World in Van, there were dozens of people smoking dope (outside) in front of their bosses. In fact, they outnumbered tobacco smokers. I think that it probably should be legalized, but I wonder if it is even worth it. Perhaps the police should just take a hands off approach. Does anyone know of recent cases where the police have come down hard on someone? They do sometimes here in Alberta. I think BC is really liberal in this regard.

[KrustyKidd]

I agree and in fact see nothing more hrmful than alcohol. I do not think the idea that people can drive around stoned and have no way of legally detecting that is good. In fact, it makes for a lot of safety issues. As well, scince 80% or our financial life lies with the Red Necks down south, and there is a border to cross that takes a truck two to three hours at this point in time, I dare not imagine the cost in $ that having legalized MJ in Canada will add to the price of transport, not to mention security at the border in searches and all. Nothing is free and the money will come from somewhere. I don;t want it to come from my pocket is all. Legalize it and sell it, tax the living daylights out of it and have the proceeds go directly to US customs to pay for all the new dogs they will have as well as our trukers that will endure countless hours at the border. Take drivers, pilots, docotors, gun, heavy equipment, captains licences away from those who wish to smoke and have weekly drug tests for those that don't. Until of course we have a reliable roadside test.

Hey, I'm all for it!

[Dragon]

Unfortunately, right now legalization just isn’t an option for marijuana. We have signed up to numerous international conventions (UN Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs (1961), UN Convention on Psychotropic Substances (1971), UN Convention Against Narcotics Trafficking (1988)) , and pulling out of these would cause a lot of international headaches.

Fact is we don’t supply the US with that much pot, they import mainly from south of their border. I really don’t see long border waits a problem for very long after C-10 is passed for two reasons. First, the border patrol will realize that the amount of pot coming across the border won’t be increasing much if any. When that happens, I believe they will cut back inspections so they can use the money in other places. Second, American businesses waiting for things from our side of the border will bitch and whine to the government about the extended wait times for things. My field, the automotive sector, relies on just in time deliveries, and longer wait times at the border would screw up production lines which would cost the big 3 plenty of $$$. When that happens, you can be guaranteed the government will hear from their lobbyists...a lot.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Here is a list of reasons so you don't miss it this time.

1. Trade with the U.S.

2. Causes cancer

3. Inhibits judgment

4. Lowers motivation

5. Effects the brain

6. Reduces perception of harm for kids (the normalizing of pot has a harmless drug is influencing kids trying it)

7. Acts as cognitive depressant that causes psychological dependence

8. Makes for a boring population

1. What kind of pathetic, craven losers do you want us to pose as? Are we whores?

2. Skiing causes death too. Ban skiiing.

3. Used privately, so what?

4. So what? Are people obliged to maintain some particular level of 'motivation'??? Phooey.

5. Of course. So does meditation, sunlight, yoga, color, ...

6. This presupposes that there is a reason to worry about marijuana. It begs the question, and is therefor a faulty argument.

7. Only a nanny-state thinks it should protect people from their private vices. Is that the state we want?

[Big Blue Machine]

It should remain illegal.