Khadr - Court rules he must be Repatriated

[Radsickle]

Omar Khadr should be returned to Canada... to face justice in the country of his birth.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Radsickle

[benny]

I think Army Guy's bad guys are mine too; the fascist, militant, al qaeda-backed group that calls itself the `Taliban'.

To me, it is just becoming too easy for Westerners to treat some angry and desperate groups of fascists.

[Radsickle]

To me, it is just becoming too easy for Westerners to treat some angry and desperate groups of fascists.

Have we not been studying fascism as fully as Freud?

[benny]

Have we not been studying fascism as fully as Freud?

no

[Radsickle]

Should. It's more important.

[benny]

Should. It's more important.

Just do it then!

[Army Guy]

I'm not a lawyer, but acccording to the defination of treason i think Mr omar fits in there nicely.

Section 46 of the Criminal Code of Canada has two degrees of treason, called "high treason" and "treason." However, both of these belong to the historical category of high treason, as opposed to petty treason which does not exist in Canadian law. Section 46 reads as follows:

"High treason

(1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada,

(a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her;

( levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or

© assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.

Treason

(2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada,

(a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province;

( without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada;

© conspires with any person to commit high treason or to do anything mentioned in paragraph (a);

(d) forms an intention to do anything that is high treason or that is mentioned in paragraph (a) and manifests that intention by an overt act; or

(e) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in paragraph ( or forms an intention to do anything mentioned in paragraph ( and manifests that intention by an overt act."

It is also illegal for a Canadian citizen to do any of the above outside Canada.

The penalty for high treason is life imprisonment. The penalty for treason is imprisonment up to a maximum of life, or up to 14 years for conduct under subsection (2)( or (e) in peacetime.

[Army Guy]

I couldn't find any video evidence of what you continue to narrate from the links you provided but I did find this video:

The video was or should have been in the last link it was shown on 60 Minutes as part of the interview., also the interview which a provided a link is available in text format.

How can he have a `fair trial' when most people have already pre-judged that he committed crimes?

This whole trail is already tilted in his favour, most of the edvidence gathered under combat conditions will not hold up in a civilian court of law. but then again it rarely does......shit we have doubts we can make a treason charge stick...No this trail will be have nothing to do with fair and what is just....he will be returned to his family, and may even be compasated for his troubles....(that is my greatest fear) we have been thru this with is other brothers...a precedent has already been set....

Have there been any adult Canadians caught `fighting on the wrong side' lately? I doubt it.

There are plenty of ongoing trails in process right now or awaiting to be heard....all you need to do is google them....and it would surprise you of how many....

He's spinning the story around his own view, as we all are, I guess.

No, thats not what i'm trying to do....I've spent 3 - 6 month combat tours chasing Omars buddies up and down mountains , valleys, i know how they operate , what thier ideals and moral values are....i know what thier goals in life are...and i wanted to give you a small taste of that....because MR, Omar was deeply involved with all of that....

Here in Canada we see a Small defenceless boy, had we released him back to Afghan you would have seen a hardened killer....would at the age of 15 already had 5 years of combat experience.....more than most Canadian soldiers....

I think Army Guy's bad guys are mine too; the fascist, militant, al qaeda-backed group that calls itself the `Taliban'

They are 2 different groups with 2 different ideals or methods of operation....Al Qaeda is a pure terrorist group, the Talibans henchmen, they got the dirty jobs ...this was the group Omar was a part of ........the Taliban are a religious group, that recieve little training....but a driven by thier goals to force there beliefs upon the masses of Afghanis.....

Omar Khadr should be returned to Canada... to face justice in the country of his birth.

Although this is what is going to happen....Omar should actually be facing the courts in Afghan where his crimes where committed....like any other Canadian has....

Another witness testimony, from soldier that was there.

testimony

[Muddy]

Army Guy has shown that Treason has been committed by this guy and by extension his family led by their deceased father and husband. Meanwhile Army Guys musings about the Taliban and AlQuida are most interesting from someone who has been there. If this terrorists is brought back to Canada I too suspect he will recieve compensation much superiour to that of our wounded loyal soldiers of the Canadian Army ,regs or reserve.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Omar Khadr should be returned to Canada... to face justice in the country of his birth.

I should think that he should be returned to the nation he committed a crime in and prosecuted there under the applicable laws of the land . Keep in mind he went there in support of those laws and customs, and has therefore already stated a desire to submit to those laws and customs. He has rejected Canadian sovereignty and embraced that of Afghanistan. Although he is Canadian, he committed no crime here.

[Army Guy]

Terrorist with a Canadian conection....Poke around in this web site find out just how serious Canada's terrorism problem really is....and why we need a JTF 2 counter terror unit....I want to remind you these are the ones that have been made public, it does not include any that have not made the list "for public awareness" nor the ones that we don't know of yet.....

Canadian terrorist

Almrei, Hassan. Born in Syria, this Ontario resident is suspected by CSIS of being an al Qaeda member.

Amhaz, Ali Adham. A Hizbollah operative who immigrated to Canada, he helped to launder hundreds of thousands of dollars through Canadian banks for the terrorist group and used some of the proceeds to purchase demolitions material, night vision goggles, new computers, and camera equipment for the group. He lived in Burnaby BC.

Ayub, Fauzi Mohammed. Detained in Israel as a leading Hizbollah operative, he appears to have been recruited by the group in Canada in the early 1990s. After training in Lebanon, he entered Israel in 2000 to set up stores sites for weapons and explosives. He arrived in Canada in 1988 and has a family here.

Atmani, Karim Said. A Moroccan who fought in Afghanistan and became a Bosnian citizen, he has also been convicted in France for charges related to passing fraudulent passports to al Qaeda members in Europe.

Bagri, Ajaib Singh. A BKI member from British Columbia, he is on trial for the1985 Air India Bombing. The ISYF is fervently backing his defence.

Bhullar, Davinder Pal Sing. A one-time leader in the Khalistan Commando Force, he is fighting extradition from Surrey BC to India, where a death sentence awaits him for a bomb attack that killed nine people.

Boumezbeur, Adel. A Montreal Salafist and Algerian, he has also lived in Vancouver and has been convicted of terrorist-related offenses in France.

Boussora, Faker. A wanted al Qaeda member believed to be hiding in Montreal in 2002. Born in Tunisia, he was trained in Afghanistan and was unknown to Canadian authorities until a videotape in which he pledged commitment to martyrdom turned up.

Daher, Kassen. A suspected al Qaeda member, he lived in Canada before being arrested in Lebanon.

Dahoumane, Abdelmajid. Originally from Algeria, and a member of the Salafist cell in Montreal. He also lived for a while in Alberta.

Dbouk, Mohammed Hassan. A Hizbollah member in British Colombia, he was the brother in law and partner to Ali Amhaz. He has fled to Lebanon and taken up another role within the terrorist group.

Farahat, Hassan (aka Abdul Jaber). Accused of being a senior member of Ansar Al Islam, and has been arrested by Kurdish guerrillas in northern Iraq, he was the Imam of the Salaheddin Mosque in Toronto from 1997 to 2002.

Haouari, Mokhtar. An Algerian who arrived in Canada via France, he supported Ahmed Ressam’s attempts to get false documentation and was a member of the same Salafist Cell in Montreal in the 1990s. He also lived in Surrey, BC.

Hardeep, Singh. A leading member of the Khalistan Commando Force, he was deported from Canada in 1995 — the same year the KCF was mounting a major recruiting campaign here and in the UK.

Harkat, Mohamed. Arriving in Canada from Pakistan (via Malaysia) with a fake Saudi passport, he lived quietly in Ottawa at a variety of menial jobs, after winning his refugee claim in 1997 and marring a Canadian citizen. A CSIS investigation has accused him of being involved in the GIA, and having worked for al Qaeda before leaving Pakistan.

Al Husseini, Mohammed Hussein. An alleged hijacker and Hizbollah member, he provided valuable insights on the group to CSIS before being deported in 1994 after living on welfare in Montreal. Part of his role was to coordinate reconnaissance for the group on potential targets inside Canada.

Ikhhlef, Mourad. A refugee who had been involved in the Algerian GIA, he was involved in the Salafist cell in Montreal.

Jabarah, Abdul Rahman. Arrived with his brother Mohamed and parents as immigrants from Kuwait in 1994, and settled in St. Catherine’s Ontario. Recruited by al Qaeda in 1990, he was killed in Saudi Arabia in July 2003 as police moved in on his terrorist cell after a series of truck bombings.

Jabarah, Mohamed Mansour. Raised in St. Catherine’s Ontario, he led an al Qaeda cell in Singapore that was planning a mass bomb attack (with 21 tonnes of improvised explosives) before he was arrested while passing through Oman in 2002.

Jabbalah, Mahmoud. Accused of being tied to Islamic Jihad, and had worked for Osama bin Laden’s construction and development projects in the Sudan in the early 1990s, this Toronto resident has been jailed since August 2001, after being deemed a national security risk. He arrived in Canada as a refugee claimant.

Al-Jiddi, Al Rauf bin Al Habib bin Youssef (aka Abderraouf Jdey). A wanted al Qaeda member believed to be hiding in Montreal in 2002. His involvement in al Qaeda was unknown until videotape of his pledge to martyrdom turned up in a cache of intelligence materials in Afghanistan.

Kadr, Abdul Rahman. A son of Ahmad Said Kadr, he was captured by Northern Alliance troops in Kabul in November 2001 while fighting as a member of the Taliban.

Kadr, Ahmad Said (also spelled as ‘Khadr’). A one-time Toronto resident who arrived in Canada from Egypt in the 1970s, and served as an aid worker in Afghanistan and Pakistan before becoming involved in al Qaeda. His current whereabouts are unknown and it is possible he may have recently been killed (along with a third son) along the Afghan-Pakistani frontier. Two of his other sons have fought for al Qaeda or the Taliban.

Kadr, Omar. The teenaged son of Ahmad Said Kadr, this under-educated boy killed a US Army medic in Afghanistan in 2002 with a grenade while fighting as a member of al Qaeda.

Kamel, Fateh. Born in Algeria, and a one-time member of the GIA, he was the leader of the Montreal Salafist Cell in the 1990s. He has been convicted in France for passing black-market passports to Islamic militants.

Labsi, Mustapha. An Algerian, he came to Montreal as a part of the Salafist cell there.

Mahjoub, Mohamed Zeki. A Toronto area convenience store clerk, he is also suspected of being a senior ‘fixer’ for Islamic Jihad. He came to Canada with a doctored passport, and is fighting deportation .

Malik, Ripudaman Singh. A BC resident and senior fundraiser for the BKI in the province. He is being tried for his involvement in the Air India Bombing.

Al-Marabh, Nabil. A Toronto area resident (a sometime welfare recipient who also worked in his uncle’s photocopy shop) from Kuwait, he is suspected of being involved in a support role for the 9-11 attacks. Arrived in Canada as a refugee claimant, he was convicted by the US of conspiracy to enter the US illegally. When arrested in the US in September 2001, he was carrying $20,000 in cash and $25,000 in jewelry.

Marzouk, Hessam Mohamed Hafez. An Egyptian al Qaeda member, he once lived in Surrey BC, and was arrested in Azerbaijan before facing charges in Egypt.

Mohamed, Samir Ait. Lived in Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto, and is currently awaiting extradition to the US. In 1996, he facilitated Ahmed Ressam’s acquisition of a silenced pistol, and helped to provide him with fake ID and a counterfeit credit card in late 1999.

Muhammad, Saeed Sobrhatolla. Accused of being a member of Ansar Al Islam, and has been arrested by Kurdish guerrillas in northern Iraq — he arrived in Canada in 1995 and maintains a family here.

Nadarajah, Muralitharan. A senior fundraiser for the LTTE, and possibly involved in an assassination cell, he arrived in Canada as a refugee claimant from Switzerland in 1998, and was ordered deported in 2002 — but is still fighting that decision.

Nawar, Nizar Ben Muhammed Nasr. One of some 1,300 Tunisian students who entered Montreal in 1999 (and one of 100 who dropped out of sight after the WTC attacks), he appears to have recruited there and delivered a suicide attack on a historic synagogue in Tunisia in early 2002 that killed 19 people.

Ouzghar, Abdellah. Born in Algeria, he was an associate of the al Qaeda Salafist cell in Montreal in the 1990s, but also lived in Hamilton. He was convicted of passport fraud in absentia by a French court.

Ressam, Ahmed. A member of the GIA in Algeria, he arrived in Canada in 1994 and was a member of a Salafist cell in Montreal. After acquiring a Canadian passport under a fake identity, he was trained in Afghanistan and was arrested in December 1999 when attempting to enter the US with a car trunk full of explosives and sophisticated timers.

Reyat, Inderjit Singh. A BKI member and one of the defendants in the Air India Bombing trial. Normally a resident of BC, he has already been convicted in the UK for charges related to the incident.

Sabanayagam, Loganathan. One of the six founders of the LTTE, he had been involved in their 1975 assassination of the mayor of Jaffna, and is a first cousin of the organization’s founder. He was convicted in 1994 of a number of fraud related charges pertaining to passport forging. He entered Canada from the US as a refugee claimant in 1988.

al-Sayegh, Hani. A Saudi who is suspected of being involved in the murder of 19 US personnel in a 1996 truck bombing in Saudi Arabia (an al Qaeda operation,) he was arrested in 1997 as he tried to settle in Canada.

El Sayed, Omar. A Hizbollah member caught living in Edmonton with a false ID (after entering Canada in 1998 with a fake Dutch passport,) he was arrested after the RCMP determined that Germany wanted him to face charges related to heroin and cocaine trafficking, selling firearms and threatening a police officer. An Alberta judge ordered him released on bail in 2002, and he has since disappeared.

Saygili, Aynur. A PKK member, she entered Canada under a false name and helped to take over a Kurdish cultural organization. She was arrested here in 1996 as a threat to national security.

Shanmugam, Tharmalingam. The chief weapons buyer for the LTTE. He travels around the world on a fake Canadian passport, but has probably never lived in Canada.

Singh, Iqbal. Arrived in Canada in 1991 as an undocumented refugee (after hopping through several countries with false documentation,) he was a member of the Babbar Khalsa International and the Sikh Students Federation. He was deported to Belize from Toronto in 2001 as a threat to Canadian security after a lengthy legal battle.

Slahi, Mohamedou Ould. An al Qaeda member who was recruited as a student in Europe, he also lived in Montreal for two years after fleeing Germany (where he was wanted for welfare fraud). In 1999, he carried a message from Bin Laden to Ahmed Ressam, ordering him to prepare an attack on Los Angeles International Airport.

Suresh, Manickavasagam. A senior LTTE leader who arrived in Canada in 1990 to take command of their front organizations here, he has been fighting deportation since 1995. The case has set a number of important legal decisions, including a ruling that refugees can be deported to countries where they face torture if there is a serious risk to Canadian security, and a dismissal of arguments that fundraising and propagandizing for terrorist groups in Canada is a form of free expression and free association.

Tobbichi, Adel (aka Mezbar, Amine). An Algerian, he was extradited from Montreal to the Netherlands in 2002 to stand trial with six al Qaeda members who were planning a series of attacks in France and Belgium.

Vignarajah, Kumaravelu. A one-time LTTE combatant, he also worked for the RCMP as a wiretapping translator, before the Mounties discovered he had concealed his part in the murder of Indian troops in Sri Lanka and suspected he was stealing intelligence documents. He entered Canada as a refugee in 1989.

War criminals:

war crimes

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I'm not a lawyer, but acccording to the defination of treason i think Mr omar fits in there nicely.

Section 46 of the Criminal Code of Canada has two degrees of treason, called "high treason" and "treason." However, both of these belong to the historical category of high treason, as opposed to petty treason which does not exist in Canadian law. Section 46 reads as follows:

"High treason

(1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada,

(a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her;

( levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or

© assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.

Treason

(2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada,

(a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province;

( without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada;

© conspires with any person to commit high treason or to do anything mentioned in paragraph (a);

(d) forms an intention to do anything that is high treason or that is mentioned in paragraph (a) and manifests that intention by an overt act; or

(e) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in paragraph ( or forms an intention to do anything mentioned in paragraph ( and manifests that intention by an overt act."

It is also illegal for a Canadian citizen to do any of the above outside Canada.

The penalty for high treason is life imprisonment. The penalty for treason is imprisonment up to a maximum of life, or up to 14 years for conduct under subsection (2)( or (e) in peacetime.

I will suggest that at the time the crime was committed the individual was not in Canada.

[Army Guy]

"High treason

(1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada,

(a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her;

( levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or

© assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.

Treason

(2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada,

(a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province;

( without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada;

© conspires with any person to commit high treason or to do anything mentioned in paragraph (a);

(d) forms an intention to do anything that is high treason or that is mentioned in paragraph (a) and manifests that intention by an overt act; or

(e) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in paragraph ( or forms an intention to do anything mentioned in paragraph ( and manifests that intention by an overt act."

It is also illegal for a Canadian citizen to do any of the above outside Canada.

The penalty for high treason is life imprisonment. The penalty for treason is imprisonment up to a maximum of life, or up to 14 years for conduct under subsection (2)( or (e) in peacetime.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

"High treason

(1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada,

(a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her;

( levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or

assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.

Treason

(2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada,

(a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province;

( without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada;

© conspires with any person to commit high treason or to do anything mentioned in paragraph (a);

(d) forms an intention to do anything that is high treason or that is mentioned in paragraph (a) and manifests that intention by an overt act; or

(e) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in paragraph ( or forms an intention to do anything mentioned in paragraph ( and manifests that intention by an overt act." It is also illegal for a Canadian citizen to do any of the above outside Canada.[/color]

The penalty for high treason is life imprisonment. The penalty for treason is imprisonment up to a maximum of life, or up to 14 years for conduct under subsection (2)( or (e) in peacetime.

I believe that you need to consider that in both cases; high treason and treason, that the offense is committed in Canada. The wording is relevant and in both cases of the definition each instance prefaces that definition with "in Canada"

Edited May 22, 2009 by Jerry J. Fortin

[waldo]

And like you i do want him to have a fair trail, but i also want him to answer for his crimes...

child soldier

Human Rights Watch Commentary: Omar Ahmed Khadr

Nationality: Canadian

Omar Khadr, a 21-year-old Canadian, was just 15 when he was captured and seriously injured in a firefight in Afghanistan on July 27, 2002.

The US has accused Khadr of throwing the grenade that killed US Army Sergeant First Class Christopher Speer and injured two others. He is charged with murder and attempted murder in violation of the laws of war, conspiracy to commit terrorism, providing material support for terrorism, and spying.

In spite of his juvenile status at the time of his capture, the United States has refused to acknowledge his status as a child, or to apply universally recognized standards of juvenile justice in his case.

Both US and international law allow for detention of juveniles only as a last resort, require juveniles to be provided educational opportunities and housed separately from adults, and mandate a prompt determination of all cases involving children. Yet, Khadr has been incarcerated with adults, reportedly subjected to abusive interrogations, and not been provided any educational opportunities (as have other children at Guantanamo). In addition, he was detained for more than two years before he was provided access to an attorney, and for more than three years before he was charged. He was initially charged in the first round of military commissions, which were ultimately struck down by the Supreme Court. Another two years passed before he was re-charged before the current military commissions.

I'm not a lawyer

which obviously isn't holding you back within this thread... in a purposeful manner... in a targeted manner

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The Gitmo detainees are not in the USA for good reason. Under US law there are a number of rights that would serve to free these people. Henceforth they were never on US soil that is subject to civilian law.

[Muddy]

The Gitmo detainees are not in the USA for good reason. Under US law there are a number of rights that would serve to free these people. Henceforth they were never on US soil that is subject to civilian law.

[/quote

If they are set free from Gitmo they will make tracks back to Afganistan to try once again to kill more Canadians and our allies.

I really am astounded that there are so many Canadians who wish to once again integrate this Khadr guy and his family and afford them all the rights they have enjoyed without any loyalty to our country and would kill our soldiers if given the opportunity.

Should not our loyalty be to guys like Army Guy first and for most?

[benny]

The Gitmo detainees are not in the USA for good reason.

Also, how can we call a country that runs, all by itself, such a prison outside its borders? An Empire I think.

[noahbody]

I'm not a lawyer, but acccording to the defination of treason i think Mr omar fits in there nicely.

If I'm his defense lawyer, I'd only have to argue that Omar was in Afghanistan before Canada entered the war and that he had no outside communication. Therefore he wasn't aware that he was committing treasonous acts.

[Army Guy]

I believe that you need to consider that in both cases; high treason and treason, that the offense is committed in Canada. The wording is relevant and in both cases of the definition each instance prefaces that definition with "in Canada"

So what you are impling is that a one can not commit treason outside of Canada...that the disclaimer on the bottom just implies it is just illegal to be defined under another law....i've researched it and can not find it...any suggestions ?

Waldo:

which obviously isn't holding you back within this thread... in a purposeful manner... in a targeted manner

So are you saying your a subject matter expert on all the posts you've commented on, in a purposeful manner, in a targeted matter....

[Army Guy]

If I'm his defense lawyer, I'd only have to argue that Omar was in Afghanistan before Canada entered the war and that he had no outside communication. Therefore he wasn't aware that he was committing treasonous acts.

Not knowing is not an excuse for breaking the law....

[benny]

Not knowing is not an excuse for breaking the law....

He had certainly access to satellite communications; the American soldiers (and some mercenaries) discover him through them.

[Oleg Bach]

Not knowing is not an excuse for breaking the law....

Yes it is - all laws should be obvious and known to all - If a law states that if you J walk the penalty is to cut off your feet - the there should be a sign 50 feet tall in bold red letters stateing that law on every street corner - any law that is ubscure...is usually put in place by legalist who are deviant in spirit..................

[noahbody]

Not knowing is not an excuse for breaking the law....

Not in most cases, but for treason it is.

For the crimes he did commit, he should stand trial in Afghanistan, IMO.

[noahbody]

He had certainly access to satellite communications

The thing is you can't prove he had knowledge.