Progressive Tory Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) Despite the fact that Harper thinks that artists are nothing but spoiled brats living in ivory towers, according to a report from Heritage Canada: "Arts and culture contributed $46 billion to Canada's economy in 2007, but the overall impact of the sector was a much broader $84.6 billion... That amounts to 7.4 per cent of Canada's gross domestic product. "Canada is a relatively small market dispersed across a large geography," the report says. "Therefore the success of many culture products and services depends significantly on international trade." According to the Government of Canada's website for Trade Routes Canada's cultural exports equal 5 billion dollars annually: http://www.publicbroadcasting.ca/2008/12/t...-arts-cuts.html This seems to contradict the Tory policy of cutting programs that promote trade in the arts. Earlier this month it announced the end of the Trade Routes program, which exposes international buyers to Canada's cultural sector, and PromArt, which helps arts groups and international artists travel overseas. http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/08/26/c...or.html?ref=rss This comes to the surface now because I was forwarded a petition to Michael Ignatieff asking him to make sure that Harper recognizes this in his budget. It is an industry like any other, who could feel the pinch of the economic crisis. During tough times people like to be entertained and we can't allow this vital industry to be lost in the shuffle. Edited January 10, 2009 by Progressive Tory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 LOL. We need to cut irresponsible funding not add to it in economic hardships. People need food and shelter not globs of shaped clay made by some flakey pot head who fancies him/herself an artist. We need to ensure people who need help have enough food to eat and have decent places to live so to raise their self respect and help them get a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterDC Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 some flakey pot head who fancies him/herself an artist. Wow. That was even more ignorant than Harper's statement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Wow. That was even more ignorant than Harper's statement... Out of what I said this is what you pick to argue about? Obviously the rest of my post you agreed with, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterDC Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) Out of what I said this is what you pick to argue about? Obviously the rest of my post you agreed with, thank you. No.. I don't agree with you.. If you knew it was so ignorant, why did you say it? Anyway, the numbers are there.. Culture and arts are a big part of our economy.. Edited January 10, 2009 by LesterDC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 LOL. We need to cut irresponsible funding not add to it in economic hardships. People need food and shelter not globs of shaped clay made by some flakey pot head who fancies him/herself an artist. We need to ensure people who need help have enough food to eat and have decent places to live so to raise their self respect and help them get a job. Globs of shaped clay rarely, if ever, get federal or any kind of funding. Most of this community are called 'starving artists', have other jobs, and sell their art at local artisan markets. The arts for the misinformed; includes concerts, plays, shows, art festivals, documentaries, movies, music, etc. Their ticket sales are taxable so generate revenue, and they employ more than a million people. Canadian Native Art is world renowned, and the publicly funded "National Film Board has won more Academy Awards than almost any other institution." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Film_Board_of_Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 LOL. We need to cut irresponsible funding not add to it in economic hardships. People need food and shelter not globs of shaped clay made by some flakey pot head who fancies him/herself an artist. We need to ensure people who need help have enough food to eat and have decent places to live so to raise their self respect and help them get a job. Humans need more than just food and shelter, and yes it includes the arts. And artists too need decent places to live, enough food to eat, and to keep their jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Despite the fact that Harper thinks that artists are nothing but spoiled brats living in ivory towers More likely he considers them talentless welfare bums who are so out of touch with Canadians that they can't sell any of their goods - except to the government. , according to a report from Heritage Canada: "Arts and culture contributed $46 billion to Canada's economy in 2007, but the overall impact of the sector was a much broader $84.6 billion. Uhm, yeah, have you looked at the report? It's kind of scanty on details. However, I was able to understand that their definition of "arts and culture" was probably somewhat more broad than most would expect. It encompasses the video game industry, for example, and the internet. It includes all broadcasting and printing, including your local newspaper, advertising and architecture, it includes book stores and video rental outlets. Only a small percentage of their figure is directly related to "performing arts" or "visual arts" and those terms aren't defined. This comes to the surface now because I was forwarded a petition to Michael Ignatieff asking him to make sure that Harper recognizes this in his budget. It is an industry like any other, who could feel the pinch of the economic crisis. Harper has not cut arts funding, though he ought to. Your prioritizing it seems bizarre, to say the least, given there are so many other industries in real trouble. In reality, very little of the "arts and culture" industry as defined in this report seems to have much correlation with government subsidies to actors who can't act, directors who can't direct, singers who can't sing, painters who can't paint, sculptors who can't sculpt, and writers who can't write - who are the ones who constantly snivel about their need for more welfare - er, subsidies. During tough times people like to be entertained and we can't allow this vital industry to be lost in the shuffle. Funny, that's what Larry Flynt said the other day. Do you think we should help subsidize the porn industry too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Humans need more than just food and shelter, and yes it includes the arts. And artists too need decent places to live, enough food to eat, and to keep their jobs. Then let them find a job, given their talents appear t0o scanty for Canadians to be willing to pay them for what they produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Humans need more than just food and shelter, and yes it includes the arts. And artists too need decent places to live, enough food to eat, and to keep their jobs. Nope...humans who have the necessities of life will make their own art as needed. We don't "need" a professional class of artisans...it is not required for living. If there is a market for such things...go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) Then let them find a job, given their talents appear t0o scanty for Canadians to be willing to pay them for what they produce. Nice to see that you don't mind artists losing their JOBS because of the current government dislike of any artistic expression that fails to meet the approval of the bigoted. I am surprised you don't propose enslaving them. Edited January 10, 2009 by CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Nope...humans who have the necessities of life will make their own art as needed. We don't "need" a professional class of artisans...it is not required for living. If there is a market for such things...go for it. It is a revenue generating industry that employs Canadians. And yes he did cut funding to the arts, though he tried to cover it up by rolling the arts and sports into one. Much of his supposed increase was for the 2010 Olympics. http://www.straight.com/article-160119/har...ts-cuts-slammed David Cronenberg (The Canadian government provided financing for Cronenberg's films through the 1970s.); Paul Haggis (an Academy Award-winning Canadian screenwriter, producer and film director who spent his early career producing and directing various Canadian television network series.), Norman Jewison ( once a production trainee for CBC Television in Toronto.), James Cameron who still hold the box office record for Titanic, are all Canadian. And yes the broad definition of the arts includes video games, but they are not part of a unique Canadian culture. I'm sure if one was designed to promote Canadian culture they would and should receive government support. As for Larry Flint, if he runs a tax revenue industry that employs taxpaying Americans, he shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. The majority of Canadians do not support the war in Afghanistan, but our tax dollars go to it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 No.. I don't agree with you.. If you knew it was so ignorant, why did you say it? Anyway, the numbers are there.. Culture and arts are a big part of our economy.. If they're so successful they don't need to be subsidized by me, the taxpayer. Stop looking for a handout and get corporate sponsership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 And yes the broad definition of the arts includes video games, but they are not part of a unique Canadian culture. I'm sure if one was designed to promote Canadian culture they would and should receive government support. Art...Fart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellowtraveller Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Humans need more than just food and shelter, and yes it includes the arts. And artists too need decent places to live, enough food to eat, and to keep their jobs. Agreed, and when an artist produces something worth buying and I can afford it, I buy it. No need for govt intervention in that most basic of transactions. If I built sidewalks to nowhere in the wilderness, would I also be worthy of govt funding because I need a place to live and food for my family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Tell, me...what did artists do before government funding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Humans need more than just food and shelter, and yes it includes the arts. And artists too need decent places to live, enough food to eat, and to keep their jobs. If humans need "the arts" they should be prepared to pay for it voluntarily though purchasing it. If artists need "decent places to live, enough food to eat, and to keep their jobs" they need to produce art good enough, that someone besides the government is willing to pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 If humans need "the arts" they should be prepared to pay for it voluntarily though purchasing it. If artists need "decent places to live, enough food to eat, and to keep their jobs" they need to produce art good enough, that someone besides the government is willing to pay for. I agree. Pretty much all the subsidization of the arts is totally wasted as regards my own tastes, at least in music. I nearly sprain my finger hitting the remote button to skip past the likes of Ben Mulroney and George 'Snuffleupagus'. The entire Canadian content program from the CRTC has never fulfilled its official mandate of promoting Canadian artists by ensuring they get airplay. Instead, stations fill up their CanCon with the same old tired cuts of Rush and Kim Mitchell, with the lite stations playing Rita MacNeil and Anne Murray. They NEVER play a new artist! New artists are left to drift on their own. Only after they reach a certain level do any subsidies kick in. Its a game of 'who you know' and its all about the transient pop music world. Canadian music artists largely succeeded on their own and the scene is no different today. Try talking to Burton Cummings of the Guess Who or better yet, Bryan Adams about how much CanCon actually helped their careers! It's just the same old brokerage politics applied to the arts & culture area. Lots of cash for multicultural artists of niche-market ethnic persuasions, like Lutonian Cheese Dancers or whatever. Buys votes for acts that very few actually care about. I would get more enjoyment for my tax money watching them burn the money! I like fires, particularly in the wintertime. Maybe I could get a grant to buy me a bottle of Drambuie to sip on while I watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Then let them find a job, given their talents appear t0o scanty for Canadians to be willing to pay them for what they produce. Where? Have you read that unemployment is on the rise. Why is their industry being punished, just because they're not autoworkers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 If they're so successful they don't need to be subsidized by me, the taxpayer. Stop looking for a handout and get corporate sponsership. For the same reason that the War is subsidized by me, the taxpayer. It's of national interest. Promoting Canadian culture and the creation of artists gives us not only bragging rights, but helps to put us on the map. We could argue that the Olympics, funded by taxpayers, have no benefit. The Arts is an industry that generates revenues and taxdollars. If the one million plus employed in the arts, lost their jobs, they'd be a far bigger expense to you the taxpayer. So even if you're bereft of culture, surely you understand the nature of capitalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 All, Interesting discussion. We don't discuss Arts funding here very often. Why don't performance arts deserve funding like other industries ? The argument that "if the market can't support it, then it should die" doesn't seem to apply to other sectors of our economy so why the arts ? And, to be clear, did Harper cut funding overall or did he remove one single inefficient program ? I think it's the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 A few of you people think the arts is a waste of money and I think it depends on what ART are talking about. There's film, music, paintings, what exactly are you all against? As far as wasting money, where did the 12+ 3 Billion go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 A few of you people think the arts is a waste of money and I think it depends on what ART are talking about. There's film, music, paintings, what exactly are you all against? As far as wasting money, where did the 12+ 3 Billion go? To us... Or did your toaster think fairies took it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 To us... Or did your toaster think fairies took it? From what I see the super rich banking class in Canada really don't like art or music - sure they will patronize the arts to look good and get status - for the most part they believe that making money is art..Art and Music elevate the human spirit - and when humans are happy and of lofty thinking - they prosper finacally - the by product of art is the generation of a bright and joyous culture - when you are happy money flows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 All,Interesting discussion. We don't discuss Arts funding here very often. Why don't performance arts deserve funding like other industries ? The argument that "if the market can't support it, then it should die" doesn't seem to apply to other sectors of our economy so why the arts ? And, to be clear, did Harper cut funding overall or did he remove one single inefficient program ? I think it's the latter. The cuts were widespread, but the big issue was his once again attacking Canadians. I can't say it enough. The arts is an industry that generates a revenue. To suggest that if they were any good they wouldn't need tax money is ludicrous, and frankly a little unpatriotic. If Canadian cars were any good they wouldn't need tax money. If Alberta Oil from the tar sands wasn't 'dirty', they wouldn't need tax money. New businesses wouldn't need start up capital and in fact why have a cabinet minister in charge of industry, if only those who NEVER NEED money to keep Canadians employed have any validity. One million employees, 45 billion dollars in taxable revenue. Hell...let's scrap it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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