Palin says she's been exploited by Couric and Fey

[Shady]

By trolling around in the gutter.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[BubberMiley]

Nope, I'm just skillfully making a point.

Do you really think you can try to sexualize a child and then make it okay by saying "but I'm talking about her 10 years in the future" or "I'm just making a joke"?

[kimmy]

If you two sincerely feel that Shady has posted offensive material, then click the "Report Post" button and let Charles decide what to do with it.

Otherwise, spare us your caterwauling.

-k

[Shady]

Do you really think you can try to sexualize a child and then make it okay by saying "but I'm talking about her 10 years in the future" or "I'm just making a joke"?

Yes.

[Shady]

If you two sincerely feel that Shady has posted offensive material, then click the "Report Post" button and let Charles decide what to do with it.

Otherwise, spare us your caterwauling.

-k

Kimmy is right. You may also take me to a Human Rights Tribunal as well, if you feel offended.

[jdobbin]

Kimmy is right. You may also take me to a Human Rights Tribunal as well, if you feel offended.

I just feel you're acting like an ass who probably has some issues.

[jdobbin]

Otherwise, spare us your caterwauling.

I said it was repugnant coming from someone who scrapes the bottom of the barrel. Spare us you indignation at someone pointing it out as crap.

[kimmy]

I never said Obama's wife was off limits. It is ludicrous of you to suggest I did. I think she was as much a public figure as her husband and therefore open to commentary and yes, parody.

If that's not what you were suggesting, why did you mention "going after Obama's wife as being too this or too that" in response to the complaint about media treatment of Palin's children?

It was done numerous times. You can even re-watch it on Youtube if you so desire with the primetime political episodes of Saturday Night Live. The ripped him on speech patterns, his "change" speech and the far off look that he has so artfully mastered.

Oh, I know they did an impression of him, I just don't recall it being particularly memorable, or particularly biting.

This was the famous one...

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/election08/77752/

...and while the faraway stare you mention was certainly amusing, there's no insight or criticism or commentary about Obama himself in any of this. Campbell Brown, on the other hand, was probably gnashing her teeth when she saw it...

Impervious? No. No one is impervious to parody.

He was teflon.

Fey was a WGA, Golden Globe and Emmy Award-winning writer and actor long before Palin showed up.

She wrote Mean Girls several years ago, which was fairly successful. Since then, "30 Rock" has been her only major project (aside from the guest appearances on SNL), and 30 Rock struggled badly for most of its run.

Before Palin, "30 Rock" averaged 6.4 million viewers and ranked #94 in viewership among network programs. Since Palin, "30 Rock" has averaged 8.6 million viewers and ranks #44.

How much more graphic could that be?

Fey is certainly a bright, funny, talented lady. And now, for the first time in her career, she's also a star.

As for Couric, she is the news anchor of CBS. Her career wasn't made on Palin. It won't survive on Palin either.

Journalists need the kind of moments that people remember them for. Anderson Cooper scorching the ears off the Louisiana senator a few years ago. Wolf Blitzer broadcasting from Baghdad with rockets and bombs exploding in the distance. That sort of thing.

Couric and her employer have certainly tried to portray her interview with Palin as one of these sorts of career-defining moments.

As for Caroline Kennedy, I think the scrutiny on her may well prevent her from being named. In fact, she faces more scrutiny than any of the other possible Senate choices. Certainly none are being parodied like she is.

Perhaps this is a regional thing. I don't watch SNL. Where I live, I receive my American TV from Washington state, and Caroline Kennedy isn't even a blip on the coverage. Perhaps folk in the east are much more aware of the campaign for Hilary's senate seat.

And from what you're saying, perhaps Kennedy is not receiving the kid-gloves treatment as Palin speculated she might. I think it's obvious that Kennedy has not been the subject of the sort of media feeding frenzy that Palin was.

Chelsea Clinton was 12 years old when she moved to the Whitehouse. She did get lots of attention even then and not all of it nice.

While there were undoubtedly some unkind cracks about Chelsea's appearance when she was young, I think you'll find that she didn't have a hard time with the press until her father's 2nd term and later.

It is why I don't know why Palin is complaining.

Well, that's the million dollar question, isn't it.

My guess would be that it's about 50% justifying/defending herself, 50% attempting to leverage this past experience into better or at least different coverage in her future political endeavors whatever those might be, and 50% being actually upset at the hatchet job that was done on her and her family.

I said it was repugnant coming from someone who scrapes the bottom of the barrel. Spare us you indignation at someone pointing it out as crap.

There gets to a point where it comes off as being about as sincere as the "lipstick on a pig" controversy.

-k

[BubberMiley]

So, to paraphrase, you don't recall the Obama parody like you do the Fey parody, so the Fey parody is more exploitive.

You don't know much about the coverage of Caroline Kennedy, so the Palin coverage (even though it consisted of questions about the magazines she reads) was more critical.

And you don't mind slimy insinuations about children, just so long as they're Obama's kids.

Got it.

[kimmy]

I'd say that's not so much "paraphrasing" as building a straw-man, Bubbles.

So, to paraphrase, you don't recall the Obama parody like you do the Fey parody, so the Fey parody is more exploitive.

Fey's portrayal of Palin was played up and promoted like none other in history.

NBC clearly exploited Palin as a means of increasing ratings for 2 of its programs. Towards the end of October, NBC was putting Fey-as-Palin on TV as much as they were putting any of the real politicians on TV, in an effort to raise Fey's profile and boost ratings for SNL and 30 Rock.

On the other hand, how many people can name the actors who portrayed any of the other candidates in any of the parodies?

You don't know much about the coverage of Caroline Kennedy, so the Palin coverage (even though it consisted of questions about the magazines she reads) was more critical.

Coverage of Caroline Kennedy has been nowhere near as ubiquitous or as vicious as coverage of Sarah Palin. I think you'd be foolish to argue otherwise.

And you don't mind slimy insinuations about children, just so long as they're Obama's kids.

Got it.

What "slimy insinuations"? I've seen nothing insinuated at all. I've read that Shady has come up with some sort of work of fiction involving the sexual exploits of the president's daughters in 10 years time, but if you think that's an "insinuation" I'd suggest you should buy a dictionary.

If Shady actually posts this alleged work of fiction he mentioned, I'll be the first to hit the "Report Post" button.

-k

[BubberMiley]

What "slimy insinuations"? I've seen nothing insinuated at all. I've read that Shady has come up with some sort of work of fiction involving the sexual exploits of the president's daughters in 10 years time, but if you think that's an "insinuation" I'd suggest you should buy a dictionary.

If Shady actually posts this alleged work of fiction he mentioned, I'll be the first to hit the "Report Post" button.

-k

I think my paraphrase still accurately depicts what you are trying to say. Ultimately, you think Fey's depiction was more exploitive than other caricatures just because it was more successful.

In terms of the work of fiction, what is "nudge nudge wink wink" but an insinuation? What level of detail do you require before you would be offended? A brief story outline or a complete work?

And a seven-year-old may be 17 in ten years, but when you're talking about a real person, she's still seven years old.

[kimmy]

I think my paraphrase still accurately depicts what you are trying to say. Ultimately, you think Fey's depiction was more exploitive than other caricatures just because it was more successful.

It's exploitive because NBC had it on TV 4 times an hour every hour in an effort to build ratings for SNL and 30 Rock. I saw none of the other caricatures promoted to a fraction of this extent.

Perhaps if Fred Armisen had his own struggling NBC sit-com, maybe his "FauxBama" impression would have been on TV as often as Tina Fey's Palin. We can only wonder. However, the fact remains that Fey's Palin caricature was the only one which was promoted in this way.

In terms of the work of fiction, what is "nudge nudge wink wink" but an insinuation? What level of detail do you require before you would be offended? A brief story outline or a complete work?

And a seven-year-old may be 17 in ten years, but when you're talking about a real person, she's still seven years old.

Shady's only "insinuation" has been that he wrote a dirty story. Nothing about the Obama girls, as far as I have read, has been insinuated in the slightest.

The point at which I'd be offended? That's easy. I'll be offended when he makes insinuations about the Obama girls.

-k

[BubberMiley]

Again, you seem to resent the fact that Fey struck a chord with people.

But what was Shady referring to when he said "nudge nudge wink wink" if he was insinuating nothing?

[kimmy]

Again, you seem to resent the fact that Fey struck a chord with people.

The extent to which NBC used the Fey's Palin impersonation to promote 30 Rock can certainly be considered exploitation by any reasonable definition.

But what was Shady referring to when he said "nudge nudge wink wink" if he was insinuating nothing?

Clearly he was insinuating his story contains lurid content.

And clearly, he has not insinuated anything at all about Malia and Sharia.

I can't imagine why that's such a difficult concept to grasp.

-k

[Oleg Bach]

Liberal Hollywood was responsible in part of the defeat of McCain - the lampooning of Palin by Fey probably cost them the election - Palin is acutally a fine and pragmatic woman - who as a VP would have done wonderfully because of her female charm when dealing with tough types in regards to foreign policy - It's a shame they slandered her.

[BubberMiley]

The extent to which NBC used the Fey's Palin impersonation to promote 30 Rock can certainly be considered exploitation by any reasonable definition.

Clearly he was insinuating his story contains lurid content.

And clearly, he has not insinuated anything at all about Malia and Sharia.

I can't imagine why that's such a difficult concept to grasp.

-k

It would be easy to grasp if he weren't insinuating lurid content about his children.

[jdobbin]

If that's not what you were suggesting, why did you mention "going after Obama's wife as being too this or too that" in response to the complaint about media treatment of Palin's children?

You have no idea what I was suggesting. I simply said that it happens to all politicians and yes, their wives or husbands. I made no evaluation on it.

Oh, I know they did an impression of him, I just don't recall it being particularly memorable, or particularly biting.

That is your right. It doesn't mean they were not trying to do an effective parody.

This was the famous one...

...and while the faraway stare you mention was certainly amusing, there's no insight or criticism or commentary about Obama himself in any of this. Campbell Brown, on the other hand, was probably gnashing her teeth when she saw it...

It is probably because Obama gave the parody creators not as much to work with. You're faulting him for that?

He was teflon.

No more than Reagan who was a great communicator. Eventually, something sticks and if it isn't image, it is actions.

She wrote Mean Girls several years ago, which was fairly successful. Since then, "30 Rock" has been her only major project (aside from the guest appearances on SNL), and 30 Rock struggled badly for most of its run.

She had Baby Mama out last year that was not too bad in the box office. Not boffo but then it wasn't large budget to begin with but it did number 1 when it came out. She has got critical acclaim for her performance in 30 Rock and awards. I could care less what the ratings were. I don't think I'd categorize her as having a flagging career. She seems to go back between film and television effortlessly and this year, it was her film career that got people talking again about her being a comedy star.

Fey is certainly a bright, funny, talented lady. And now, for the first time in her career, she's also a star.

And you insist that it was Palin that made her a big star. Come on. It is like saying Bush made Ferrell a star.

Fey had piles of awards for her writing and performances before Palin ever came along.

Fey had the number 1 movie in the U.S. *before* she did a Palin imitation.

Journalists need the kind of moments that people remember them for. Anderson Cooper scorching the ears off the Louisiana senator a few years ago. Wolf Blitzer broadcasting from Baghdad with rockets and bombs exploding in the distance. That sort of thing.

Couric and her employer have certainly tried to portray her interview with Palin as one of these sorts of career-defining moments.

As I said, who is exploiting who? Palin chose Couric? Why? Because she thought she'd be a soft touch?

Perhaps this is a regional thing. I don't watch SNL. Where I live, I receive my American TV from Washington state, and Caroline Kennedy isn't even a blip on the coverage. Perhaps folk in the east are much more aware of the campaign for Hilary's senate seat.

Kennedy is in a struggle to make sure the parodies don't her an afterthought in the race for the appointment.

And from what you're saying, perhaps Kennedy is not receiving the kid-gloves treatment as Palin speculated she might. I think it's obvious that Kennedy has not been the subject of the sort of media feeding frenzy that Palin was.

Never said it did have higher exposure. I said Kennedy was subject to parody and it was working. You seem concerned that it reach the same level as Palin who ran for a higher office.

While there were undoubtedly some unkind cracks about Chelsea's appearance when she was young, I think you'll find that she didn't have a hard time with the press until her father's 2nd term and later.

There was some pretty nasty stuff said and some pretty cruel parodies. However, I don't recall anyone proposing a porno about her. That seems reserved for Obama's kids.

Well, that's the million dollar question, isn't it.

I think if she plays the victim on this, it will not work. She's no one's victim and should just plow on.

My guess would be that it's about 50% justifying/defending herself, 50% attempting to leverage this past experience into better or at least different coverage in her future political endeavors whatever those might be, and 50% being actually upset at the hatchet job that was done on her and her family.

This is all about 2012. Maybe she will be able to handle a softball interview next time.

There gets to a point where it comes off as being about as sincere as the "lipstick on a pig" controversy.

What seems sincere is that you think someone describing a porno for pre-teen youth is anything but scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Edited January 11, 2009 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

Liberal Hollywood was responsible in part of the defeat of McCain - the lampooning of Palin by Fey probably cost them the election - Palin is acutally a fine and pragmatic woman - who as a VP would have done wonderfully because of her female charm when dealing with tough types in regards to foreign policy - It's a shame they slandered her.

Didn't you have something to say about her not being a good mother for running for office?

[sharkman]

In reading this thread, it's a little sad that something as obvious as media bias of Palin and Kennedy can not be seen by lefties. But it's not surprising.

Edit: Reading August1991's response in the very next post, it occurs to me perhaps I didn't fully explain myself. Palin and Kennedy are on opposite sides of the political spectrum, Palin being the conservative. The media bias on Palin was overwhelmingly negative, while on Kennedy it's been positive(except for Fox) for a woman with no experience, but her last name is Kennedy, and she's a liberal.

Edited January 12, 2009 by sharkman

[August1991]

In reading this thread, it's a little sad that something as obvious as media bias of Palin and Kennedy can not be seen by lefties. But it's not surprising.

Palin and Kennedy are both women - other than that, they have little or nothing in common.

Draw your own conclusion.

[bill_barilko]

Liberal Hollywood was responsible in part of the defeat of McCain - the lampooning of Palin by Fey probably cost them the election - Palin is acutally a fine and pragmatic woman - who as a VP would have done wonderfully because of her female charm when dealing with tough types in regards to foreign policy - It's a shame they slandered her.

Whatever you're smoking it sure must be strong-I don't think I've ever read anything more idiotic on the subject from anyone-ever.

[sharkman]

Whatever you're smoking it sure must be strong-I don't think I've ever read anything more idiotic on the subject from anyone-ever.

Then your reading material is pretty much confined to left wing(except for this site) sources. Stick around and you may broaden your perspective.

[kimmy]

It is probably because Obama gave the parody creators not as much to work with. You're faulting him for that?

I'm certainly not faulting Obama for that, if that's what you're asking.

But as SNL themselves pointed out, Obama got an awfully soft ride.

Why did their Obama parody fail to interest anybody? Who knows. Perhaps Fred Armesin just wasn't very good. Maybe they were unable to think of anything worthwhile to say. Maybe they were already so intimidated from the criticism they received for not casting a black man in the role that they were walking on egg-shells. Really, who knows. They'll have 8 years to figure something out, I guess.

She had Baby Mama out last year that was not too bad in the box office. Not boffo but then it wasn't large budget to begin with but it did number 1 when it came out. She has got critical acclaim for her performance in 30 Rock and awards. I could care less what the ratings were. I don't think I'd categorize her as having a flagging career. She seems to go back between film and television effortlessly and this year, it was her film career that got people talking again about her being a comedy star.

And you insist that it was Palin that made her a big star. Come on. It is like saying Bush made Ferrell a star.

No, Dobbins, it's not much like that at all. "Baby Mama" doesn't really stack up against the more or less continual string of movies Ferrell has had out over the past 5 years, of which at least a few were major hits.

I think we all recognize that it wasn't "Baby Mama" that boosted 30 Rock's audience by 35%.

I think we all recognize that it wasn't "Baby Mama" that boosted 30 Rock from #94 show on TV to #44 show on TV.

I think we all recognize that it wasn't "Baby Mama" that earned Fey the title of "Entertainer of the Year".

Co-starring in the #49 movie of the year didn't make Fey a star. Having the #94 show on TV didn't make didn't make Fey a star. Having the absolutely, undeniably most-talked about entertainment performance of the year DID make Fey a star and a household name in a way she had never been before, and the resulting benefit for her network and her sit-com has been immense. The effect of the Palin-related publicity on 30 Rock has been night and day. The effect on Fey's profile as an entertainer has been epic. She's a household name right now. She never was before.

Tina Fey was on the Barbra Walters "Most Fascinating People" special a few weeks ago, and Barbra wasn't showing clips from 30 Rock, and she wasn't showing clips from Baby Mama. Can you guess what they were showing clips of? Yeewwwww Betcha!

I don't know how you could dispute any of this, unless you've suffered a concussion of some sort.

Certainly Tina Fey is a talented and funny and likable performer. And certainly her career would have continued on without the Palin thing. But I am pretty sure that if you asked her if she'd be happier if 30 Rock remains on the air or was cancelled, she'd be much happier with it remaining on the air. I am sure that if you asked NBC whether they're happier with 30 Rock drawing 8.6 million viewers a week or 6.4 million viewers a week, they'd chose 8.6. And none of that happens without cashing in on Palin. They had Fey-as-Palin on TV 4 times an hour during primetime in the weeks leading up to the election as a means of hyping Fey and the return of 30 Rock. They knew they'd won the lottery.

-k

[BubberMiley]

I know brevity is not your strong suit, but can you remind me why anyone should care if Fey exploited a VP candidate by impersonating her?

[kimmy]

I know brevity is not your strong suit, but can you remind me why anyone should care if Fey exploited a VP candidate by impersonating her?

Well, Bubber, if I'm boring you, feel free to go back to Protecting The Children ™.

I was responding to Dobbins' claim that Fey didn't need Palin because she already had a low-rated sitcom and a modestly successful movie. Which is kind of like me saying that I don't need to win the lottery because I already make enough money pay my bills. Sure... but if Super 7 drops $10 million on me, I'm still taking it.

To summarize: the Palin impersonation is the only political parody I know of that has been used to promote a program (30 Rock) that's completely unrelated to political parody. The extent to which NBC put Fey-as-Palin clips on prime time TV in advertising during the campaign is unprecidented (as far as I can recall) which gives merit to Palin's claim of having been singled out.

-k