Moonlight Graham Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I don't see how the Socialists can argue this. Human Life begins at conception and all abortion is murder of that life. Very simple.If it doesn't then what is it at conception? When does it become human life and why? I'm not very religious at all, nor right wing. But i agree with you. Women want choice. I think the choice occurs when you allow a man to stick his penis in your vagina. I'm against abortion except in cases of rape and when the mother's life/health is at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I'd say that life begins whenever conscientiousness begins.. But I also fail to see how abortion = socialism.. But a newborn baby has no self-awareness, and the brain and consciousness still take months to develop after birth. The cerebral cortex is where our conscious activity is done, so I would draw the line when higher brain development starts along with brainwave activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I'm not very religious at all, nor right wing. But i agree with you.Women want choice. I think the choice occurs when you allow a man to stick his penis in your vagina. I'm against abortion except in cases of rape and when the mother's life/health is at risk. Precisely. One doesn't need to be religious to agree or disagree with one stance or another. I held this pov before I converted to Catholicism, when I was Protestant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drea Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) I'm not very religious at all, nor right wing. But i agree with you.Women want choice. I think the choice occurs when you allow a man to stick his penis in your vagina. And then we make another choice: whether to abort the fetus or carry it to term. If it is, as you say, our choice to have the penis inject sperm, then it is also our choice as to what happens after that. We can choose to run to the pharmacy and get the morning after pill. Or we can make an appointment with our doctor and discuss our options. As of today, in Canada, women have three options. 1. bring the fetus to term and keep the child, and whatever implications this may have on the woman's life. 2. bring the fetus to term and give the child up for adoption, never really knowing what happens to the child. 3. abort the fetus. These options get more convoluted when the male involved is aware of the pregnancy. In that case the woman must discuss the options with him as well, even though she does have the final say. She's like, the "President" of her body and can veto all decisions made by others regarding it. Oh, and imo, life begins when the fetus is at a stage viable enough to survive with today's medical technology. 20 weeks should be the cut off. Edited January 3, 2009 by Drea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) And then we make another choice: whether to abort the fetus or carry it to term. If it is, as you say, our choice to have the penis inject sperm, then it is also our choice as to what happens after that. We can choose to run to the pharmacy and get the morning after pill. Or we can make an appointment with our doctor and discuss our options. As of today, in Canada, women have three options. 1. bring the fetus to term and keep the child, and whatever implications this may have on the woman's life. 2. bring the fetus to term and give the child up for adoption, never really knowing what happens to the child. 3. abort the fetus. These options get more convoluted when the male involved is aware of the pregnancy. In that case the woman must discuss the options with him as well, even though she does have the final say. She's like, the "President" of her body and can veto all decisions made by others regarding it. Oh, and imo, life begins when the fetus is at a stage viable enough to survive with today's medical technology. 20 weeks should be the cut off. Very eloquent and well described post and it's a good starting point in abortion reform which is badly needed, even you concede that much which I applaud Drea. This abortion on demand needs to end. Having abortions every weekend is not a good form of birth control imo. Edited January 3, 2009 by Mr.Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 This abortion on demand needs to end. Having abortions every weekend is not a good form of birth control imo. Withdrawl is a lousy form of birth control too. Abortion is ending a pregnancy - not birth control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) And then we make another choice: whether to abort the fetus or carry it to term. If it is, as you say, our choice to have the penis inject sperm, then it is also our choice as to what happens after that. We can choose to run to the pharmacy and get the morning after pill. Or we can make an appointment with our doctor and discuss our options. As of today, in Canada, women have three options. 1. bring the fetus to term and keep the child, and whatever implications this may have on the woman's life. 2. bring the fetus to term and give the child up for adoption, never really knowing what happens to the child. 3. abort the fetus. These options get more convoluted when the male involved is aware of the pregnancy. In that case the woman must discuss the options with him as well, even though she does have the final say. She's like, the "President" of her body and can veto all decisions made by others regarding it. Oh, and imo, life begins when the fetus is at a stage viable enough to survive with today's medical technology. 20 weeks should be the cut off. Well put. Which is why the whole abortion argument is so contentious and may never end. I see both sides of the debate, and IMO both are legit viewpoints. Edited January 4, 2009 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Life begins at conception and abortion is murder. No matter which way you slice it, abortion is murder. Women have the right to choose atm as the legal system says but it's murder, legal, doctor assisted murder of a defenseless baby. Pro Choicers never say that they always concentrate on the woman and hardly mention the baby. This is done on purpose so that the public won't think of the baby as a person and will only think about "womans rights" Pro Lifers say wait a minute what about the rights of the baby, does a baby not have any rights? Pro Choicers say NO! A baby has no rights and a mother has the right to kill her baby whenever she feels like it, legally. Abortion reform needs to happen. It will help save lives, little defenseless baby lives. It's societies duty to protect those that cannot protect themselves. The Pro Choicers want to be able to kill babies in one breath then be a child advocate in the next. I find it amazing how they can keep a straight face when saying this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Life begins at conception and ... ends at the bottom of a cluster bomb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 There are two deaths mentioned in scripture - the first death...and the second death. The first death is what you were prior to conception...for all intent and purpose prior conception ...you are dead...The second death is the one that follows after conception...and hopefully a full and long life. Either you are dead or you are not...I would say prior to the sperm and egg touching and making a big human bang.....there is no life - the mili second that is conception - BANG - we have life...might be small - and a spark in the darkness...but it's life...If woman had glass window on the front of their bodies...and you could see what was going on - there would be less abortions - out of sight - out of mind....It's easier to kill a mouse with a brick if it's in a bag than in a bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 There are two deaths mentioned in scripture... The scriptures also describe many other types of deaths and killings that are acceptable - because they were instructed by God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Killing in the name of God is always permitted. Killing babies isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Killing in the name of God is always permitted. So you must really be happy with what Islamic radicals are doing then, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Life begins at conception as the Pope says. The RCC is very old and wise in all things concerning morality. I am a child of God and will be shot down. His glory will raise me up above it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Life begins at conception as the Pope says. The RCC is very old and wise in all things concerning morality.I am a child of God and will be shot down. His glory will raise me up above it. The Pope is wrong and clinging to an emotional argument. Life begins at birth. A fetus is not alive by legal definition until about a month or so after conception. Until then it is a woman's appendage. Even though you can make all the opinionated emotional arguments you want it still does not change the fact that abortion is legal and morally acceptable in Canada. If the Pope was right we would all be Catholic. And since I see him as just another elevated misfit Priest who protects pedophiles and adulterers I would suggest that he does not have the moral standing to decide what is publicly moral in any society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) I don't see how the Socialists can argue this. Human Life begins at conception and all abortion is murder of that life. Very simple.If it doesn't then what is it at conception? When does it become human life and why? The answer is not as clear as you make out. Please define how you determine if something is "life"? For example is a virus "life"? Is a person who is brain-dead "life"? Is blood which flows from a cut "lfe"? Perhaps if you can answer these we can address when life begins. (Ironiclly, I feel compelled to ask Mr Canada for "the meaning of life" The second point, is what makes something "human"? Is a whole person required to make someone human or is a single cell composed of dna sufficient to be considred "human"? Edited January 5, 2009 by Renegade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) Killing in the name of God is always permitted. Priceless quote! BTW, who's "God" are you referring to, yours or mine? Or are you maintaining that only killing in the name of your God is permitted but no others. Edited January 5, 2009 by Renegade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) *duplicate Edited January 5, 2009 by Renegade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Life begins at conception and abortion is murder. No matter which way you slice it, abortion is murder. Women have the right to choose atm as the legal system says but it's murder, legal, doctor assisted murder of a defenseless baby. Pro Choicers never say that they always concentrate on the woman and hardly mention the baby. Hmm. Fully grown, sentient adult or lump of tissue. Who to side with… This is done on purpose so that the public won't think of the baby as a person and will only think about "womans rights" Pro Lifers say wait a minute what about the rights of the baby, does a baby not have any rights? Pro Choicers say NO! A baby has no rights and a mother has the right to kill her baby whenever she feels like it, legally. Yup. Beats the alternatives. Abortion reform needs to happen. It will help save lives, little defenseless baby lives. It's societies duty to protect those that cannot protect themselves. And whose going to look after all these little bastards? You? Pope Benedict? The Pro Choicers want to be able to kill babies in one breath then be a child advocate in the next. I find it amazing how they can keep a straight face when saying this. I don’t see the conflict. Apples and oranges, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahbody Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Killing in the name of God is always permitted. Killing babies isn't. Woman have miscarriages all the time. Is this God choosing to abort or is he murdering babies? And while you're at it, why does he give babies cancer and watch them suffer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) Killing in the name of God is always permitted. Killing babies isn't. So, when Crusaders were killing Muslim babies, some in their mothers' womb, was it permtted, or not? Same when it was done in the name of God to Jewish, Aboriginal, Protestant babies. Either it was permitted by God, or it wasn't. Those who kill and claim it's in the name of God are doing the Devil's work. God does not demand murder in His name. Edited January 11, 2009 by CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyStone Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I don't see how the Socialists can argue this. Human Life begins at conception and all abortion is murder of that life. Very simple.If it doesn't then what is it at conception? When does it become human life and why? Life begins long before conception. Sperms are alive. So are toadstools and penguins. How is an unborn fetus more important than the life of a full-grown rabbit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 .....How is an unborn fetus more important than the life of a full-grown rabbit? The unborn fetus doesn't taste as good or make a very warm hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Life begins long before conception.Sperms are alive. So are toadstools and penguins. How is an unborn fetus more important than the life of a full-grown rabbit? Neither the sperm or the egg have sentience. They are not "alive" but are part of the body. A fetus is nothing more than a woman's appendage and until it begins to have a thought process that is separate from the women, it is no more alive than a fingernail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeyhands Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 The unborn fetus doesn't taste as good or make a very warm hat. nor are they good for hanging on your keys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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