Left wing hypocrisy

[ironstone]

The left wingers never cease to amaze me.They are hypocrites in every sense of the word.Over the last week the core argument they make over this coalition nonsense is that Stephan Dion is the rightful Prime Minister of Canada by virtue of the fact his backroom deal with the Socialist and Bloc members represents the true wishes of a majority of Canadians.Sounds like selective democracy and cherry picking to me.I read the comments of one VMG where he dismisses the recent poll numbers outright.So that's what it boils down to?Anyone that does not favour this poorly thought out coalition idea is poorly informed?Looking at the most hard core supporters of Dion-Layton-Duceppe,government union bosses and their soldiers are front and centre.Deep down,we know full well that they are concerned about one thing and one thing only!They have an insatiable greed that cannot be fulfilled under any circumstances.Their pay and benefits easily outstrip most of their private sector counterparts in every way,higer salaries,substancially more time off,better better working conditions,fantastic job security.Sadly,all of this is not enough it appears.PSAC and all the other greedy government unions have little to fear in the future.Even if the Conservatives one day got a huge majority election victory,we will ALWAYS have a massive public service in this country.Governments of all stripes have historically caved in to union demands more often than not.By the way,can anyone tell me what party was in power the last time there were big layoffs in the public service?

I wish Canadians on both sides of this argument were better informed.I am of the impression that those on the right have more common sense and reason than those on the left.You can't deny we are fighting an uphill battle here.There is unquestionably a pro left wing bias in the media,not only here but south of the border as well.

It's amusing to hear the crying from the left over the GG's decision.In their view,the coalition is perfectly legal and legitimate,while what Harper has done,is not.Now I beg you,who are the uninformed one's here?

[Smallc]

It's amusing to hear the crying from the left over the GG's decision.In their view,the coalition is perfectly legal and legitimate,while what Harper has done,is not.Now I beg you,who are the uninformed one's here?

The coalition was completely legitimate and democratic. What the Prime Minister asked for was completely legitimate and democratic being that the Governor General agreed with him. Both were completely legal maneuvers.

[wulf42]

The coalition was completely legitimate and democratic.

Maybe so but it signed the political death blows for the NDP and liberals!

[Smallc]

Maybe so but it signed the political death blows for the NDP and liberals!

You say that about everything. If there is one constant about politics, its that its never constant...or predictable.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Smallc

[Griz]

Maybe so but it signed the political death blows for the NDP and liberals!

WHy did they even say anything about the vote of non-confidence? Did they have to? Had they not and just went about business as usual, then went in and voted without all the public hoopla it may very well have been very different. It all seems ridiculous now that it will just lead to another election

[Topaz]

Ironstone, everything you`ve said I`ve heard from the US Republicans supporters like Rush. It`s always the `left wing`or the far left wing`that causes all the problems but that is not the cases here. No one and no party is perfect but there are parties in the Fed. government that is trying to help Canadians in their hour of need! Harper started out with 12 Billion and 3 Billion as emergency fund, so what did he do with it? He spent on pre-elections to buy votes and alot of it went to Quebec, as Baird said one day in the Commons, the government gave Quebec more money than it asked for!! They admitted this was coming, so why didn't they tell the rest of the world and stop their spending? How was taking away rights to Fed. workers going to help the economy? They had 54 Billion in EI and put 2 Bil in a fund for the new EI and that amount is going to be gone because of the mass unemployment in the manufacturing sector. I heard all workers are going to pay more in premiums next year. What has Harper done for Canadians? Yeah he gave back some GST and an income tax rebate but now we are going into a deficit we couldnt afford the pay backs and we cant afford to be in a war either and under Harper we are going back to big debt even if he takes crown property and sells for nothing just to cover their a****! If Harper keeps doing what he is doing he will take over from Mulroney Canadas worse PM!

[-VMG-]

I won't deny "left wing" hypocrisy if you won't deny "right wing" hypocrisy.

[eyeball]

It`s always the `left wing`or the far left wing`that causes all the problems...

If the poor and the rich and the powerful and the weak are that determined to go to war against each other for causing the problems of the world I say bring it on.

Personally I've just about lost all faith in the institution of government and I'm willing to give anarchy a try. On the other hand, I don't think I have the pagan ethos required to just take something I might need away from someone else but that could change depending on the circumstances. I'd probably have little trouble preying on bullies that prey on weaker people, in fact I think it could be a real pleasure to do so. My sense of justice still seems to be holding but I'm starting to feel like the old buzzard who said to the other, "patience my ass...I'm going to kill something."

[ironstone]

I certainly agree with you on the bit about Quebec.Harper gave away too much money and power to them,something every federal government is guilty of.

Ironstone, everything you`ve said I`ve heard from the US Republicans supporters like Rush. It`s always the `left wing`or the far left wing`that causes all the problems but that is not the cases here. No one and no party is perfect but there are parties in the Fed. government that is trying to help Canadians in their hour of need! Harper started out with 12 Billion and 3 Billion as emergency fund, so what did he do with it? He spent on pre-elections to buy votes and alot of it went to Quebec, as Baird said one day in the Commons, the government gave Quebec more money than it asked for!! They admitted this was coming, so why didn't they tell the rest of the world and stop their spending? How was taking away rights to Fed. workers going to help the economy? They had 54 Billion in EI and put 2 Bil in a fund for the new EI and that amount is going to be gone because of the mass unemployment in the manufacturing sector. I heard all workers are going to pay more in premiums next year. What has Harper done for Canadians? Yeah he gave back some GST and an income tax rebate but now we are going into a deficit we couldnt afford the pay backs and we cant afford to be in a war either and under Harper we are going back to big debt even if he takes crown property and sells for nothing just to cover their a****! If Harper keeps doing what he is doing he will take over from Mulroney Canadas worse PM!

[/quot

[Goat Boy©]

I would say the political spectrum in Canada looks like this.

NDP--------------------------Green-----Liberal-------Centre----------Conservative.

And I mean that to scale, as in the Left get's far more radical than the right. As a resident of British Columbia I would tell you that the extreme Left's mistakes are far more costly than the rights. I think the real worry here, is what is happening to the liberal party?

[Canadian Blue]

Smallc, you have way too much intelligence for this place. It's obvious that the only acceptable answer is that either Stephen Harper is a Fascist, or that Stephane Dion hates democracy.

Either way, I'm going to get solace from reason magazine.

[Slim MacSquinty]

They admitted this was coming, so why didn't they tell the rest of the world and stop their spending? How was taking away rights to Fed. workers going to help the economy? They had 54 Billion in EI and put 2 Bil in a fund for the new EI and that amount is going to be gone because of the mass unemployment in the manufacturing sector. I heard all workers are going to pay more in premiums next year. What has Harper done for Canadians? Yeah he gave back some GST and an income tax rebate but now we are going into a deficit we couldnt afford the pay backs and we cant afford to be in a war either and under Harper we are going back to big debt even if he takes crown property and sells for nothing just to cover their a****! If Harper keeps doing what he is doing he will take over from Mulroney Canadas worse PM!

Why is it so many people have such a poor understanding of economics?

The federal government is not your rich uncle, its not their job to sit on savings, it is their job to keep as much money in the economy as is possible and keep the government as lean as possible. In fact to follow your own skeptic logic, you should be even more worried if the evil Tories accumulated money as think of all the bad they could do with it.

There are many in the economic world who believe the Tory spending and tax cuts have been one of the things that have provided the insulation between our economy and that of the US. In fact several have noted that by lowering taxes (especially consumer taxes) and leaning out the government is actually a form of economic stimulus as it keeps money in the economy for consumers.

So instead of having a big fat social welfare war chest they are trying to keep the economy working, that makes a hell of a lot more sense to me.

[Bryan]

The coalition was completely legitimate and democratic. What the Prime Minister asked for was completely legitimate and democratic being that the Governor General agreed with him. Both were completely legal maneuvers.

Legal and democratic are not the same thing. The coalition attempt was legal, and within the constitution, but it was absolutely undemocratic.

[eyeball]

I would say the political spectrum in Canada looks like this.

NDP--------------------------Green-----Liberal-------Centre----------Conservative.

And I mean that to scale, as in the Left get's far more radical than the right. As a resident of British Columbia I would tell you that the extreme Left's mistakes are far more costly than the rights. I think the real worry here, is what is happening to the liberal party?

Actually its more like this and I mean this to scale. The center is smaller than we think and the proximity to extremes is closer to the truth.

NDP---------Green-Social Liberal-Centre-Fiscal Conservative--------Corporatist----------Social Conservative--Nazi's

Edited December 6, 2008 by eyeball

[Canadian Blue]

NDP---------Green-Social Liberal-Centre-Fiscal Conservative--------Corporatist----------Social Conservative--Nazi's

You obviously have no clue what corporatism is, eh.

http://www.moral-politics.com/xpolitics.as...lIdeologies.All

[eyeball]

You obviously have no clue what corporatism is, eh.

http://www.moral-politics.com/xpolitics.as...lIdeologies.All

Its just a label. What I really mean is, there's a bunch of greedy pricks who could care less about the planet or the people living on it. For some reason this seems to resonate more with the right side of the spectrum than the left.

If there's a better term than corporatist feel free to suggest it and I'll edit my post.

Edited December 7, 2008 by eyeball

[Canadian Blue]

What I really mean is, there's a bunch of greedy pricks who could care less about the planet or the people living on it. For some reason this seems to resonate more with the right side of the spectrum than the left.

I don't know, from what I've read of history the old USSR had a fairly dismal environmental and human rights record. As for greedy pricks who don't care about the planet or the people living on it, I think that would fall under humanity in general.

However, the proper name for the people you're talking about are Sneerists, named after the business tycoon Cyril Sneer.

Here's some info on corporatism:

http://www.fee.org/publications/the-freema...le.asp?aid=2699

The state comes before the individual. Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary defines fascism as “a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized, autocratic government.” This stands in stark contrast to the classical liberal idea that individuals have natural rights that pre-exist government; that government derives its “just powers” only through the consent of the governed; and that the principal function of government is to protect the lives, liberties, and properties of its citizens, not to aggrandize the state.

[Smallc]

Legal and democratic are not the same thing.

Your right, but in this case, they both apply. What they tried to do is part of our democratic system. Whether or not you approve of it or like it is another matter entirely.

[Goat Boy©]

Your right, but in this case, they both apply. What they tried to do is part of our democratic system. Whether or not you approve of it or like it is another matter entirely.

What was it, 45% of Canadians currently support Harper, 61% say absolute NO to coalition, something like 28% support the coalition? How can that be called democratic were they to accomplish the coup? How can you have a democratic government without the support of the people?

Edited December 7, 2008 by Goat Boy©

[Goat Boy©]

Its just a label. What I really mean is, there's a bunch of greedy pricks who could care less about the planet or the people living on it. For some reason this seems to resonate more with the right side of the spectrum than the left.

If there's a better term than corporatist feel free to suggest it and I'll edit my post.

Been watching some michael moore movies?

[Wild Bill]

Maybe so but it signed the political death blows for the NDP and liberals!

No, it won't. In fact, don't be surprised if it makes less difference than you think!

There seems to be a constant about the left. They tend to be less objective and more emotional. Their heroes are all angels who can do nothing wrong. Their villains are all totally evil, just for the sheer joy of it.

Apparently, Harper has denied Canadians their democratic rights by shutting down Parliament to avoid a confidence vote. Meanwhile, the coalition wants to take power by avoiding having Canadians vote! That's a GOOD thing, according to Bob Rae on the telly Friday night. Same thing, different judgement.

The core support for the Liberals and NDP is not likely to change one iota. Fortunately, there is that portion of voters in the middle who swing their vote. Likely that will be more than enough to give Harper his majority.

The Liberals and the NDP will still be around.

[Oleg Bach]

No, it won't. In fact, don't be surprised if it makes less difference than you think!

There seems to be a constant about the left. They tend to be less objective and more emotional. Their heroes are all angels who can do nothing wrong. Their villains are all totally evil, just for the sheer joy of it.

Apparently, Harper has denied Canadians their democratic rights by shutting down Parliament to avoid a confidence vote. Meanwhile, the coalition wants to take power by avoiding having Canadians vote! That's a GOOD thing, according to Bob Rae on the telly Friday night. Same thing, different judgement.

The core support for the Liberals and NDP is not likely to change one iota. Fortunately, there is that portion of voters in the middle who swing their vote. Likely that will be more than enough to give Harper his majority.

The Liberals and the NDP will still be around.

The lefts job is to stay on the left side of the body and provide heart. The rights job is to provide cold calculating brain power and manage the emotional foolishness - it's about survival and joining the rest of the worlds socialists will simply empoverish and further de-stablize the nation. At present Harper is working on a budget - not one that will make one group rich and the other poor - He will carefully devide up the cash so we all have just enough to get by - and getting by is what is important - These are dire times and if we have wealth we had better continue to conserve and be truely conservative so we weather the storm...best the left can do is look at old style conservatism and study it - THEN constantly remind Harper to return to the parties roots. Opportunism by the oppostion will only give temporary satisfaction to the political ego - even if the coaltion is successful - the success will be sort lived....DON'T CHANGE HORSES IN THE MIDDLE OF A RAGING STREAM.

[Alta4ever]

You obviously have no clue what corporatism is, eh.

http://www.moral-politics.com/xpolitics.as...lIdeologies.All

That person obviously has no idea what Nazi's are either.

Facism is a perversion of socialism.

[Smallc]

Facism is a perversion of socialism.

No its not. Nazism is a perversion of fascism and socialism.

[-VMG-]

What was it, 45% of Canadians currently support Harper, 61% say absolute NO to coalition, something like 28% support the coalition? How can that be called democratic were they to accomplish the coup? How can you have a democratic government without the support of the people?

The fact you call it a coup shows how ignorant you are.

Along with the rest of the Canadian public who have no idea whats going on but decides to vote in a pole anyways.

The fact you put numbers of different poles in the same sentence really damages your credibility.