Coalition Government

[blueblood]

lol. You're still underestimating the combined force of the other side. Hell, throw the Greens into the coalition for an election and the Cons are going to have a real problem with an unstoppable left.

But keep telling yourself that the Tories have everything in the bag....it will make it more enjoyable when Harper is disposed of.

And your underestimating the sheer strength of the tory war room. They anhialated Stephane Dion, they made him look like a joke, now Duceppe, and Layton are going to be taken for a ride. The electorate bought that Dion was no good, they'll surely buy into this. The tories have no problems now. Just get the budget out and it's easy street.

The left has brought a knife to a gun fight.

[NDP4Montreal]

And your underestimating the sheer strength of the tory war room. They anhialated Stephane Dion, they made him look like a joke, now Duceppe, and Layton are going to be taken for a ride. The electorate bought that Dion was no good, they'll surely buy into this. The tories have no problems now. Just get the budget out and it's easy street.

The left has brought a knife to a gun fight.

I can't believe you can honestly say that Dion would lead the Libs in a new election with a straight face. His demise has been in the works for a while.

[Smallc]

The left has brought a knife to a gun fight.

And yet the Prime Minister is running from them.

[fellowtraveller]

Hell, throw the Greens into the coalition for

That will make a huge difference when you add all their seats to those held by the Bloc, NDP and Liberals.

Oh wait, our resident Liberal apologist is still pretending that the Bloc are not a part of the coalition.

Why does jdobbin insist on this obvious fiction?

Because he knows the consequences for the Liberals if Canadians perceive them as spreading their legs for the separatists. The biggest job ahead for Dion and Layton is promoting the utterly nonsensical premise that the Bloc is a benign force that wants nothing for propping them up.

[NDP4Montreal]

That will make a huge difference when you add all their seats to those held by the Bloc, NDP and Liberals.

That comment was mainly for our resident Cons who insist that it is illegal/unconstitutional/evil/Uncanadian/whatever to do this without an election.

At least with a coalition including the Greens, the left can cement it's majority vote %age.

The biggest job ahead for Dion and Layton is promoting the utterly nonsensical premise that the Bloc is a benign force that wants nothing for propping them up.

The biggest job ahead for the Conservatives is actually taking the partisan blinders off and realising that it is impossible for this to even be an option without Layton and Dion talking the the Bloc. The Bloc has already been duly informed, the Bloc has noted their support, and the Bloc will be rewarded for their support. This has all been noted already.

[kimmy]

Forget the qualifications. There is nothing undemocratic about two opposition parties forming a coalition government.

Call it unethical, unforgiving, evil, whatever you want. But please stop calling it undemocratic, because it's not.

It is certainly within the rules.

However, the lefties who've gone on for the past 3 years about the injustice of having a Prime Minister who was chosen by only 38% of Canadians seem strangely supportive of having a Prime Minister who only 26% of Canadians voted for.

-k

[fellowtraveller]

That comment was mainly for our resident Cons who insist that it is illegal/unconstitutional/evil/Uncanadian/whatever to do this without an election.

At least with a coalition including the Greens, the left can cement it's majority vote %age.

The biggest job ahead for the Conservatives is actually taking the partisan blinders off and realising that it is impossible for this to even be an option without Layton and Dion talking the the Bloc. The Bloc has already been duly informed, the Bloc has noted their support, and the Bloc will be rewarded for their support. This has all been noted already.

Utter nonsense.

Both the NDP and Liberals deny that the Bloc will share any power in their coalition, and expect Canadians to believe it. Unlike you, they know that to admit to their constituents and fellow citizens that they have not only stood by, but have offered the separatists effective control of the country - they will be vilified and scorned.

Only idiots believe that Canadians of every ideology and party membership won't be disgusted and repelled at the actions of some 'leaders' sharing the control of this country with separatists.

For that reason, I hope that the coalition is formed and brings down the governemnt.

It will ensure a minimum of two Tory majorities, and utterly ruin the careers of Layton, Dion and anybody else associaited with this disgrace. A legion of former PMs would roll over in their graves if Duceppe is invited to hold the balance of power.

[johhny]

And your underestimating the sheer strength of the tory war room. They anhialated Stephane Dion, they made him look like a joke, now Duceppe, and Layton are going to be taken for a ride. The electorate bought that Dion was no good, they'll surely buy into this. The tories have no problems now. Just get the budget out and it's easy street.

The left has brought a knife to a gun fight.

Maybe so but I know sitting on the political action comity the unions have allot of money socked away for such case. You could look at Ed's campain in Alberta we were running smear adds every 5 minutes. Now with Harpers idea to take away the right to strike this will go nation wide with the unions they will put up a fightm we don't need to donate to a party we will smear Harper on our own. I know Gil with the federation of labor is already got things in the works.

This will get interesting on;y 59% of Canadians voted but people are becoming interested now from all this, people thought things were working well in government, now they see it is not they will come out and vote, and chances are not with for a leader who refuses to make things work.

[NDP4Montreal]

It is certainly within the rules.

However, the lefties who've gone on for the past 3 years about the injustice of having a Prime Minister who was chosen by only 38% of Canadians seem strangely supportive of having a Prime Minister who only 26% of Canadians voted for.

-k

And again, a con forgets that when the parties who garnished 28% of the vote support the party leader of the one that garnished 26%, then that means that PM has 54% of the voter electorate behind them.

Utter nonsense.

Both the NDP and Liberals deny that the Bloc will share any power in their coalition, and expect Canadians to believe it. Unlike you, they know that to admit to their constituents and fellow citizens that they have not only stood by, but have offered the separatists effective control of the country - they will be vilified and scorned.

Only idiots believe that Canadians of every ideology and party membership won't be disgusted and repelled at the actions of some 'leaders' sharing the control of this country with separatists.

For that reason, I hope that the coalition is formed and brings down the governemnt.

It will ensure a minimum of two Tory majorities, and utterly ruin the careers of Layton, Dion and anybody else associaited with this disgrace. A legion of former PMs would roll over in their graves if Duceppe is invited to hold the balance of power.

I think your period after "nonsense" meant to be a colon.

Everyone realises that the opposition can't take power without the Bloc's support. But to believe the Bloc will have a stranglehold on the government and Quebec will suddenly jump out of the confederation is a ridiculous slippery slope that the Cons seem to want to portray.

Oh, and it will only ensure two Tory majorities if the coalition is awful at governing. Somehow, I doubt that happens. Can't be any worse than the Cons during the Mulroney and now Harper eras.

[NDP4Montreal]

Oh, and might I add, that the Bloc's separatist views certainly didn't concern Harper and the Cons in 2004 when they started their little plot, now did it?

[fellowtraveller]

Everyone realises that the opposition can't take power without the Bloc's support. But to believe the Bloc will have a stranglehold on the government and Quebec will suddenly jump out of the confederation is a ridiculous slippery slope that the Cons seem to want to portray.

That is the problem with the Liberal idiocracy: they believe all will be forgiven(Adscam for example). A formal alignment, a coalition with separatists will never be forgiven, never be forgotten by some members of your own party, and many citizens in general. And simply doing the math (try harder, it is just addition) means that yes, the Bloc will have a stranglehold on the govt, their votes are absolutely essential to the passage of anything.

What part of that don't you get?

I don't see Quebec jumping anywhere but on the bandwagon, why would they go anywhere now when the country is suddenly, unexpectedly and gloriously available for wholesale looting?

Or are you one of those that believe the Bloc will support the NDP and Liberals out of goodwill, no thanks no need to pay ? It is insulting to the Candian population when these two parties try to pretend they are not including the Bloc in the coalition.

[scribblet]

How long do you really think such a 'coalition' would last and do you really think this election gave these guys a mandate to form a coalition government, cos this is not what they were elected to do.

How can a National Political Party join forces with a separatist party that wants to destroy our Country? It would be the height of irresponsibility on the part of the GG, possibly stepping into the territory of treason, to appoint a prime minister who is clearly dependent for survival on a Bloq faction that is openly dedicated to the break-up of the country.

If such a move occurs, Canada would be justified in recommending to the Crown that its Canadian representative be replaced forthwith.

[White Doors]

Yet you completely ignored my earlier question as to what exactly is 'undemocratic' about a coalition government.

Nothing, but I imagine that alot of people who voted for the Liberals and NDP didn't envision them forming a coalition to run the nation with a seperatist party.

I say let them go for it.

I'll get the popcorn

[cybercoma]

CTV is reporting:

[cite]A new Liberal-NDP coalition government would introduce a $30 billion economic stimulus package and roll back $50 billion in planned corporate tax cuts, the New Democrat caucus was told on Sunday.[/cite]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...ada&s_name=

When the rest of the world is bailing out corporations because of the economic crisis we are facing, why is this mutinous coalition planning to raise corporate taxes? Can someone with a modicum of knowledge in the economy explain to me why they would tax business to pay for a stimulus package FOR BUSINESS? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

[cybercoma]

PS: I'm calling it right now. With a Liberal/NDP Alliance, the natural leader of such a governing party is Bob Rae. Mark my words.

[White Doors]

CTV is reporting:

[cite]A new Liberal-NDP coalition government would introduce a $30 billion economic stimulus package and roll back $50 billion in planned corporate tax cuts, the New Democrat caucus was told on Sunday.[/cite]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...ada&s_name=

When the rest of the world is bailing out corporations because of the economic crisis we are facing, why is this mutinous coalition planning to raise corporate taxes? Can someone with a modicum of knowledge in the economy explain to me why they would tax business to pay for a stimulus package FOR BUSINESS? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

It doesn't make any sense, that is the NDP's price of admission.

[cybercoma]

It doesn't make any sense, that is the NDP's price of admission.

It's Robin Hood confused: Stealing from the rich to give back to the rich.

[Argus]

Must watch video almost pissed myself lauphing

How old are you? I mean, honestly. I can't think of a poster we've had in a long time who'se posts were as consistently juvenile as yours.

[Argus]

Take your complaint to the Governor General. However, stop saying it is unfair when Harper attempted the same thing himself and didn't any steps to correct it once in office.

I, for one, don't think it's unfair or undemocratic. However, what aggravates me is the blatant, in your face, lying on the part of the opposition leaders. Anyone who says this is about economics is simply lying through his teeth. This has NOTHING to do with economics or any other issues facing Canada. This was plain and simple about the outrage provoked when Harper threatened the Opposition parties feed bags. Now even though that's been withdrawn, they scent blood in the water, and more importantly, power in the air. They want that power. Dion himself wants it desperately, at almost any cost. Duceppe sees an opportunity to screw over Canada. And Layton just doesn't care about anything but pushing his narrow, parochial issues into the limelight.

As I said, it's legal, but they should have done it after the election, not seized on this pretext and then pretended it's about the economy. As it is I consider them all nothing more than grasping, venal, self-serving, liars who couldn't care less what damage they might do to the economy by creating instability in government.

[capricorn]

It doesn't make any sense, that is the NDP's price of admission.

John McCallum was interviewed on CFRA radio 30 minutes ago and he said the corporate tax cuts would go ahead under a coalition. He also said Dion would be interim PM until the new leader is chosen in May. Who to believe?

He said the coalition's economic plan would be made public by week's end. The names of the Ministers would not all be available until the coalition takes over.

The interview is not yet posted on CFRA. I'll link it when it becomes available.

Edited to add link to interview dated today Dec. 1.

http://www.cfra.com/interviews/default.asp

Edited December 1, 2008 by capricorn

[Argus]

With a minority. Confidence applies and if the Governor General believes the Opposition can form a government, it is all democratic no matter what the screaming is from Tory quarters.

So are you supporting Baird or Prentice as some of your colleagues are now?

Have you read the polls on what confidence people have in leadership? Harper is waaaay out in front of any of the opposition. And in confidence in dealing with the economy? Harper is wayyyyy out in front of any of the other opposition leaders. He certainly screwed up here, but I don't see him as being a drawback to the party. I'm not fond of the guy, but still, fair's fair.

[Argus]

Bingo. We can't keep having elections every two months just because some group doesn't like the results when there are other, legal, constitutional means of obtaining a government.

You really think a coallition between these guys would last much more than two months?

[capricorn]

I, for one, don't think it's unfair or undemocratic.

I agree. Our system provides for it and it is up to the GG to accept or reject.

However, what aggravates me is the blatant, in your face, lying on the part of the opposition leaders. Anyone who says this is about economics is simply lying through his teeth. This has NOTHING to do with economics or any other issues facing Canada. This was plain and simple about the outrage provoked when Harper threatened the Opposition parties feed bags.

This could not be plainer.

But what am I saying? Notwithstanding the hundreds of column-inches attacking the Tories for their intolerable affront to opposition sensibilities, it is important to remember that the opposition’s sudden lurch for power had nothing to do with the impending loss of public funds. No, the reason they are absolutely forced to defeat the government this time, having declined to do so over Afghanistan, or global warming, or budgets 2006, 2007 ot 2008, is on account of the fall update. Nothing bespeaks the fierce urgency of now so much as an annual statistical review.

Again, the commentariat is as of one maddened mind. How could the government be so blind? Can it not see that unemployment has soared to 6.2%? Why, that’s four-tenths of a percentage point above its recent, thirty-year low. And what about Canadians’ fears of losing their home, what with the proportion of mortgages more than 90 days in arrears standing at an all-time record 0.2%? Okay, it’s an all-time record low, but still. When will it realize there’s a Depression on? Or coming? Or quite possible, certainly, in other countries.

While this laissez-faire, do-nothing government contents itself with spending more than any government in the history of Canada — 25% more, after inflation and population growth, than at the start of the decade — and pumping tens of billions of dollars into the banking system, what Canadians demand is “stimulus.” And stimulus, we all know, in a sophisticated, 21st century economy, can be delivered in only one way: by hiring large numbers of unionized men to dig holes in the ground (see “infrastructure.”) Loosening monetary policy doesn’t count. Tax cuts don’t count. It only counts as “stimulus” if the government spends it.

Or rather, it only counts as stimulus if a Liberal government spends it. The Tories have already promised to deliver billions more in “stimulus” in the next budget. But that’s, like, 58 days from now. We can’t possibly wait until then. We cannot wait to see how the economic situation evolves, or what effect the extraordinary series of measures countries around the world have taken to date will have. We cannot wait to see what the Americans will do. By then the polls might have shifted. By then the crisis might have passed. The government must fall now — so that it can fall again in a month’s time.

Because, as absolutely everyone agrees, the Conservatives made them do it. Not that that had anything to do with it.

http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/11/30/the-tor...ade-them-do-it/

The opposition parties are flinging mixed messages all over the place. I can just imagine the circus on the Hill that awaits us if this coalition passes the GG's smell test.

[Argus]

.

The biggest job ahead for the Conservatives is actually taking the partisan blinders off and realising that it is impossible for this to even be an option without Layton and Dion talking the the Bloc. The Bloc has already been duly informed, the Bloc has noted their support, and the Bloc will be rewarded for their support. This has all been noted already.

And there we have the problem for any opposition coallition.

Every consession the Liberals make to the Bloc threatens to cost them dearly in the inevitable election which cannot now be long down the road. You think Harper is a bully because he pushes when his opponents are weak? That's not being a bully. That's being a political leader. Once this starts rolling the BQ will be in the drivers seat to some extent. They'll know the Liberals will do almost anything to avoid a quick election, and Duceppe will push and push and push to get ever possible consession for Quebec. The Liberals will try desperately to limit those consessions, knowing how much they will cost them with the rest of Canada some election time. The NDP, of course, will be in there pushing, as well. They'll want credit for getting some of their left wing agenda into play. This too might cost the Liberals dearly come next election. Which, btw, the NDP would like very much. The NDP would love nothing better than for the Liberals to be nearly annihilated, for that would push them forward as Official Opposition. You think they won't be manoeuvring for that? So you'll have a weak Liberal party as the figurehead leaders, and two strong leaders in two strong "coallition" partners, both looking to stick it to the Liberals and make themselves look good.

How long will it last? God knows. But the only way it continues on for any length of time is if the Liberals continue to make consession after consession to the BQ and NDP. In the end, that could destroy them in the following election.

[Argus]

CTV is reporting:

[cite]A new Liberal-NDP coalition government would introduce a $30 billion economic stimulus package and roll back $50 billion in planned corporate tax cuts, the New Democrat caucus was told on Sunday.[/cite]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...ada&s_name=

When the rest of the world is bailing out corporations because of the economic crisis we are facing, why is this mutinous coalition planning to raise corporate taxes? Can someone with a modicum of knowledge in the economy explain to me why they would tax business to pay for a stimulus package FOR BUSINESS? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I said earlier that if this coallition actually came into being they would rush forward with a pretend-stimulus package that really had no point other than PR. This looks to be it. It'll have big, eye-catching numbers, but won't actually accomplish anything. But then, it's not really designed as anything but window dressing.

Remember, this coallition has nothing to do with the opposition's crocodile tears about the economy. It's about power, that's all.