wulf42 Posted November 20, 2008 Author Report Posted November 20, 2008 (edited) I just love how not knowing what you are talking about doesn't stop you from plunging in...for the record I would like to see made in canada jet backs, anti grav boots and death rays... What he is saying makes perfect sense....Mr Canada like me is a Canadian who is sick of Liberal nonsense of trying to be the worlds friend and saying the hell with the Military........didn't you learn anything from the last election? Canada is going anti Liberal...thank God above for that! Edited November 20, 2008 by wulf42 Quote
Mr.Canada Posted November 20, 2008 Report Posted November 20, 2008 (edited) Maybe that came out wrong...what i mean is give our Soldiers the best weapons systems available so they can do the job they are asked to do...starting with getting rid of those damn Sea Kings! Agreed but let's build them here in Canada instead of buying them from some foreign land. Lets have the CF driving, flying and sailing Canadian engineered and built equipment. We have top minds and facilities right here in Canada. Built by Canadians for Canadians. Maple Leaf Forever should be the mantra of the day. Anyone who doesn't know what "Maple Leaf Forever" is should look it up and listen to it on you tube. It should have been our national anthem instead of what we have now but that's history. Edited November 20, 2008 by Mr.Canada Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
wulf42 Posted November 20, 2008 Author Report Posted November 20, 2008 Agreed but let's build them here in Canada instead of buying them from some foreign land. Lets have the CF driving, flying and sailing Canadian engineered and built equipment. We have top minds and facilities right here in Canada. Built by Canadians for Canadians. Maple Leaf Forever should be the mantra of the day. I completely agree with that........i would love to see Canadian designed weapons, we certainly have enough skilled and talented people to do it! Quote
blueblood Posted November 20, 2008 Report Posted November 20, 2008 Agreed but let's build them here in Canada instead of buying them from some foreign land. Lets have the CF driving, flying and sailing Canadian engineered and built equipment. We have top minds and facilities right here in Canada. Built by Canadians for Canadians. Maple Leaf Forever should be the mantra of the day.Anyone who doesn't know what "Maple Leaf Forever" is should look it up and listen to it on you tube. It should have been our national anthem instead of what we have now but that's history. Umm, that'll happen when manufacturing workers realize they don't deserve to be in the same paygrade as doctors and lawyers and will be willing to accept wages that are appropriate for their skill level of work. If that won't happen, there are some other countries that would be happy to build what we want for a fraction of the cost with the added benefit of having money to buy our other exports, what a novel idea!!! Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
M.Dancer Posted November 20, 2008 Report Posted November 20, 2008 One single ship takes over a year to build. Really!?!? Over a WHOLE year for one single ship!!!! Who Knew?!?! Please tell me more about this taxpayer funded make work programme you dreamed up in Mom's basement.... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
wulf42 Posted November 21, 2008 Author Report Posted November 21, 2008 Really!?!? Over a WHOLE year for one single ship!!!! Who Knew?!?!Please tell me more about this taxpayer funded make work programme you dreamed up in Mom's basement.... You do realize that all the Navy Frigates were built in Canada right? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 You do realize that all the Navy Frigates were built in Canada right? Right.....except for the gas turbines, diesel engine, sensors, ASW torpedoes, AAW missiles, surface to surface missiles, deck gun, Phalanx CIWS, helos, and countermeasures suite. Nice ships..... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
M.Dancer Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 You do realize that all the Navy Frigates were built in Canada right? No!!! Really! Wow...Never would have believed that I could learn so much from such well informed bumpkins Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
eyeball Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 If we were really smart we would build Nukes then people might take us seriously, sorry to say but if you have the Bomb people listen! I am in total agreement and many of my detractors here can attest to my often suggesting a simple but effective nuclear deterent makes far more sense for Canada. A couple of handfuls of really big ugly-assed nukes, something almost verging on doomsday devices is all we need for a stick, as for walking softly, that's always come naturally enough for Canadians, we could just keep on truckin' like we always have. If the world is as filled with violent nut-bar regimes as the usual suspect paranoiacs around here would have you believe then why provoke them? We'd be far better off just keeping our heads down and let them shoot it out with each other. I'd just as soon we spend our money on the better things life has to offer and if a final violent nuclear exchange is as inevitable as some think at least we'll still be able to join the party. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
NorthernThunder Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 That's hitting the million dollar nail on the head, with an $80,000 hammer. All being said, the solution is not an easy one. How can we claim sovereignty or a say on the world stage if we have no way to back up our claims? A start would be more people. That's the only conclusion I keep coming to as well. Unfortunately, Canada's birth rate is disproportionately low compared to other countries of similar economic and geographic size. The federal government has had to make up for this by having what is arguably the most liberal immigration rate in the world. I wish I understood why Canadians seem to be so reluctant to have bigger families. The government (federal/provincial) needs to create more incentive for that. It would also mean lower taxes, if our population was larger. Quote
White Doors Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 Wulf we agree on many points but even I don't want to see Canada become "armed to the teeth", it's overkill.I would like to see the cf-18's replaced with something better like the raptors or better yet, a jet designed and fab'd in Canada. Along with a revamped Navy stocked again with Canadian built ships and subs. Not ot mention ground force armaments. All built in Canada. That would provide Canadians with jobs for decades and would work to reverse the tide of anti-nationalism we as Canadians seem to be adverse to. Canada's military is not a make-work program, sorry. Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
Army Guy Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 One single ship takes over a year to build. It may of only taken a year to kick out some of the last ships in the yard, but the orginal ship took over 5 years to construct, so your info is alittle misleading.... Halifax class (FFGHM) IN SERVICE: 12 Name No Builders Laid down Launched Commissioned HALIFAX 330 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 19 Mar 1987 30 Apr 1988 29 June 1992 VANCOUVER 331 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 19 May 1988 8 July 1989 23 Aug 1993 VILLE DE QUÉBEC 332 Marine Industries Ltd, Sorel 17 Jan 1989 16 May 1991 14 July 1994 TORONTO 333 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 24 Apr 1989 18 Dec 1990 29 July 1993 REGINA 334 Marine Industries Ltd, Sorel 6 Oct 1989 25 Oct 1991 30 Sep 1994 CALGARY 335 Marine Industries Ltd, Sorel 15 June 1991 28 Aug 1992 12 May 1995 MONTREAL 336 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 8 Feb 1991 28 Feb 1992 21 July 1994 FREDERICTON 337 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 25 Apr 1992 13 Mar 1993 10 Sep 1994 WINNIPEG 338 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 19 Mar 1993 5 Dec 1993 23 June 1995 CHARLOTTETOWN 339 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 5 Dec 1993 10 July 1994 9 Sep 1995 ST JOHN'S 340 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 24 Aug 1994 12 Feb 1995 26 June 1996 OTTAWA 341 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 29 Apr 1995 22 Nov 1995 28 Sep 1996 Janes Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 I am in total agreement and many of my detractors here can attest to my often suggesting a simple but effective nuclear deterent makes far more sense for Canada. A couple of handfuls of really big ugly-assed nukes, something almost verging on doomsday devices is all we need for a stick, as for walking softly, that's always come naturally enough for Canadians, we could just keep on truckin' like we always have. Having a wpn that you have no intention of using is well a waste of time and money and offers no deterent at all. A nation with nuk wpns must show, or prove that it has the will, the means, and the support of it's people to use such wpns.... Canada has none of those...if we can not convince them to buy a few tanks how would you convince them to purchase serveral nuks....Eyeball for someone who looks for an easy way out i don't think you've thought this one through. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Wild Bill Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 That's the only conclusion I keep coming to as well. Unfortunately, Canada's birth rate is disproportionately low compared to other countries of similar economic and geographic size. The federal government has had to make up for this by having what is arguably the most liberal immigration rate in the world. I wish I understood why Canadians seem to be so reluctant to have bigger families. The government (federal/provincial) needs to create more incentive for that. It would also mean lower taxes, if our population was larger. Why do some folks keep asking this question? The answer is so flippin' obvious! Money! Things have slowly changed from the Ozzie and Harriet family days. The norm today is that it takes 2 incomes to have the typical family lifestyle. Of course Mom can stay home if they lower their expectations and live in Shantytown but the double income lifestyle has become the norm. There just isn't enough disposable income to provide for as many children as families used to have. Double incomes also means more stresses on available family time in raising children. So people limit the number of children in order to provide sufficient attention. Even at that, there's a good argument that things have been pushed too far and the kids are suffering. Day care costs take a large chunk out of that extra income, further limiting numbers. I know there are some that will pick apart my model and not my point, coming up with theoretical methods that we can use to allow Moms to stay home. Methods that never seem to actually work in the real world. To these folks I simply say, you're wasting your time arguing with me! You have to convince virtually all Canadians who wish to have children! Even if you totally slay my argument you'll have changed nothing in the real world. Having fewer children is simply a logical choice in today's world. Only those parents who lack the foresight to see the factors or are in privileged positions, either through their own incomes or government assistance, tend to have larger families. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Army Guy Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 After reading alot of post here , I'm not really sure your fully aware of the current state of our military...I won't talk about the Navy or airforce, because i know little of what is going on in those elements, but remember the Army is the rich cousin and if the army is bad, the other elements are worse.. Don't get me wrong we like most of the equipment we operate now, in fact some of it is top of the line, our Lav III is a world class veh, however, the Lav IV and LAV H are already in production putting our vehs 2 generations behind....Afgan is taking a toll on these vehs using them up at incrediable rates, wearing them out, or lost to battle damage....Units in Canada are lucky to have more than 1/3 there compliment....which means there are not alot to go around, not many for training, and because there is fewer... means they are in constant motion, so we are wearing out those ones quicker as well.... What does get purchased is equipment for use in Afgan, and a few samples to train on in Canada....which is good, but is becoming a problem as most of this equipment, is seen by the soldiers for the first time preparing for Roto to afgan, regular units in Canada rarely see the new stuff.... which means they are using some equipment that they are still becoming familar on, when it should be second nature to them.... What we need is for equipment purchases be made in qty's to outfit not just all reg force units in Canada, but also amounts for our res units as well, which means much bigger contracts....keep in mind that all this nice to have equipment is sitting in Afgan, not Canada..... Anyways i think you get the piont, our military is in sad shape, and while i applaud the cons for moving us forward, serious action needs to be taken, quickly, as our shape erodes daily and there will come a time when regardless of what you put into it, it will be nothing more than an empty shell....and we will be force to rebuild everything from the bottom up... we have just over 59,000 personal in the Army, Navy, and Airforce...Just to give you something to compare that to, The US marines have more women in uniform than we have military....An Avgerage NHL staduim could comfortably seat everyone charged with defending this nation.... keeping in mind that 1/3 of out fighting forces are in Afgan, either there or preparing to go....Anyways i'm done venting...time to get some rack time... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
NorthernThunder Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 Why do some folks keep asking this question? The answer is so flippin' obvious! Money!Things have slowly changed from the Ozzie and Harriet family days. The norm today is that it takes 2 incomes to have the typical family lifestyle. Of course Mom can stay home if they lower their expectations and live in Shantytown but the double income lifestyle has become the norm. There just isn't enough disposable income to provide for as many children as families used to have. Double incomes also means more stresses on available family time in raising children. So people limit the number of children in order to provide sufficient attention. Even at that, there's a good argument that things have been pushed too far and the kids are suffering. Day care costs take a large chunk out of that extra income, further limiting numbers. I know there are some that will pick apart my model and not my point, coming up with theoretical methods that we can use to allow Moms to stay home. Methods that never seem to actually work in the real world. To these folks I simply say, you're wasting your time arguing with me! You have to convince virtually all Canadians who wish to have children! Even if you totally slay my argument you'll have changed nothing in the real world. Having fewer children is simply a logical choice in today's world. Only those parents who lack the foresight to see the factors or are in privileged positions, either through their own incomes or government assistance, tend to have larger families. What makes the United States so different that they have TEN times the population? Quote
Mr.Canada Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 Canada's military is not a make-work program, sorry. Canada's military has been neglected to the point where every single branch needs an overhaul and new equipment. Why not build it in Canada putting Canadians to work instead of relying on outsiders to build it for us. We need it no matter what so let's have Canadians build them for Canadians. It would create many many jobs for decades. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Oleg Bach Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 Canada's military has been neglected to the point where every single branch needs an overhaul and new equipment. Why not build it in Canada putting Canadians to work instead of relying on outsiders to build it for us. We need it no matter what so let's have Canadians build them for Canadians. It would create many many jobs for decades. Not only do they need to be better equipped - they need an influx of high grade persons to form a good and intelligent marshall class. The military's reputation must be repaired in an honourable manner in order to attract persons of quality. At present the military is set up as a destination of last resort for young Canadians. This does not cut it. No bright person will enter law enforcement at this time or the military. Our brighter youth want to embrace honour and duty.....The crux of the problem with out military is our new parroting envolvement with the out going American administration that were and are dishonourable. Bring back the honour and then equip our fine knights with the best. Quote
guyser Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 Why not build it in Canada putting Canadians to work instead of relying on outsiders to build it for us. We need it no matter what so let's have Canadians build them for Canadians. It would create many many jobs for decades. Of course lets make sure they are unionized, and we make lots of weapons too. I think GM in Oshawa et al should add a new line and start pumping out more cars. Who cares if no one wants to buy them. People wil have jobs and pay dues. All good. Quote
M.Dancer Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 It would create many many jobs for decades. ...and take decades longer to get the material to where it is needed. Industries to not pop out of the aether...they have to be built before they can build. So if you want to re-invent the wheel... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Oleg Bach Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 Looks like our auto execs have the daunting task of re-inventing the wheel. Seems they were not paying attention as the wheel warped from round to square. This crisis may be a new opportunity in the making - just hope that there are replacements for the Lear Jet boys - replacements with vision and a true concern for people that they only viewed thus far as consummers. Upper middle management should leave and let some young blood take over. Quote
Mr.Canada Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 (edited) Of course lets make sure they are unionized, and we make lots of weapons too. I think GM in Oshawa et al should add a new line and start pumping out more cars. Who cares if no one wants to buy them. People wil have jobs and pay dues. All good. LOL, well this is one of the funnier things I've ever read here. Canada can make it's own military equipment. I know everyone's scared in these times where society seems to have the Bart Simpson syndrome. It's time to look inward. It's time to take responsibility for ourselves as Canadians. It's time to stop pointing fingers and searching for someone to blame. It's time to get Canadians back to work! Let's get Canadians working for Canada instead of some foreign dictators who are flaying the backs of Canadians with their far flung bull whips. We shall be whipping boys no longer, we must stand together, united and strong! Let's make the <MADE IN CANADA> label mean something again and not just a punchline for drippy history books. We have a lot of work to do, Canada is sick. Lets all pull together and nurse her back to health. Just like the six million dollar man....we have the technology. Edited November 21, 2008 by Mr.Canada Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Oleg Bach Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 My garden rake broke...brand new - Made in China...seems that they use a exactly three drops of glue per unit. Every bit of Walmart garbage ends up in our land fill sites within a few months.....China does not give a damn if they send you a cigarette lighter that does not light...and they are to far away for our disappointed consumers to reprimand or complain to. I don't want junk - I want a rake that lasts for more than 2 minutes - It looked like a Canadian rake - and it was falsely labled as Canadian - but on closer examination I saw the tiny "made in China" sticker......................................................................... ................................forget about enriching those that do not enrich us - It's bad trade and it's bad buisness - make a rake here! Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 Building weapons in Canada makes a great deal of sense, but it is not cheap. If we are serious about this rebuilding of our forces then I side with those who would see those funds spent in Canada. Let's build what we need in Canada. Quote
eyeball Posted November 21, 2008 Report Posted November 21, 2008 Building weapons in Canada makes a great deal of sense, but it is not cheap. If we are serious about this rebuilding of our forces then I side with those who would see those funds spent in Canada.Let's build what we need in Canada. Only if we keep it here. Otherwise forget it. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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