Isn't it time to slow down immigration?

[Sir Bandelot]

Canadians who bother to vote get to pick and choose. On another thread you said you don't vote. I'm curious to know how you pick and choose what you like without casting a vote.

Curiousity is the first step towards learning and intelligence, so keep it up

[M.Dancer]

Curiousity is the first step towards learning and intelligence, so keep it up

And apathy is the final step towards irrelevance.

[capricorn]

Curiousity is the first step towards learning and intelligence, so keep it up

Ditto. That's why you picked this place where knowledge is bound to improve provided one has any brains.

[William Ashley]

There is another cost. That is the salary paid to the employee replacing the worker who is away on language training. I wonder if this expenditure is reported in the total language training program costs. I suspect not.

Je recu une bourse apprendre le francais, c'est seulement $2000 c'est tout. C'est 1 mois en printemps ou ete. Apres quatre ans je pense ca mon chic ce sera tres bonne, non?

Peutetre le majeur point de vue ne serait pas "seulement" les directeurs mais a la place tout le service publique seraient donnent l'option pour augmenter, et suelement les persons avec la chic le recu.

?

THere are programs that run 2000$ all costs, a place to stay food, and tutition for 2000$ for a month long bursary. Why not offer this to all the public service, those that have fluency can get management those who don't can't. Make sense.

It is proposterous to be paying 150,000 per annum to train someone to speak french.

even for a four year program 150,000 seems high. to train a doctor shouldn't take more than this

given 10,000/year = 8 years is only 80,000 and that should be enough to pay tuition books and housing and food costs.

150,000 makes no sense.

In my own program to train civil service employees through a paid tution and books program over the course of 4 years, including coop terms in government support roles for living costs (that is they work in their off term with the government and receive "a living cost allowance, essentially something like 5000 per school term or something or 15,000 annual in grants and income.. this would be 60,000$ over the course of 4 years, with 3 or 4 months being employed in government job training, if possible for coop credit through special academic programs arranged with the universities and colleges.

They still may need to access student loans for living costs beyond the money given Which would depend on their indivudal circumstances resps/scholarships/boursaries, grants etc.. ) though but it dramatically reduces debt load for them, and nearly gaurentees employment on a contract term eg 5 year contract term. etc..

150,000 makes NO SENSE.. it is proposterous.

They would also serve support roles during their time on campus.

Edited October 22, 2008 by William Ashley

[Sir Bandelot]

And apathy is the final step towards irrelevance.

Aww, you guys are like a tag-team. That's nice

[Sir Bandelot]

That's why you picked this place where knowledge is bound to improve provided one has any brains.

yes knowledge will help you grow a brian

[capricorn]

yes knowledge will help you grow a brian

You grow brians? I like davids myself.

[M.Dancer]

yes knowledge will help you grow a brian

You don't need knowledge to grow a brian, or a tom or even a steve...just two kids not caring about tomorrow and hormones will do the rest.

Edited October 22, 2008 by M.Dancer

[M.Dancer]

You grow brians? I like davids myself.

you capricious small pastry!

[Sir Bandelot]

you capricious small pastry!

Hee, there you go. I think she made a chocolate eclair...

Ok, enough now before chuckles gets mad at me

(again)

[William Ashley]

You mean the "S" word? No, please I won't accept any of your conventional labels either. I don't believe in the welfare nanny-state. I would not vote NDP. Politicians to me are inherently tellers of un-truths hence anarchy is better.

I'm an anarcho-cynicalist. We take turns to act as a kind of executive officer of the week but decisions have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...

I'm a newbie politician and i tell THE TRUTH. I understand anarchy is the natural state of things, and only faith can create a basis for order. It is only people with a similar purpose and faith that can work constructively to a goal. Thankfully we as humans may all have some of the same goals and a universal faith should we recognize universal values.

I'm looking for advisers and I highly respect anarachists.. if you would like to act as an adviser for my campaign, party or life, feel open to contact me at either [email protected] or [email protected]

of course if other people are interested you may also contact myself and introduce yourself.

Thought I'd throw it out there because I am a truthful person as much as we each have our own interpretation of the world, and point of view that fills our solitary experience. I lie not.

Edited October 22, 2008 by William Ashley

[Griz]

I really don't think the immigrants will go back to Europe :-)

[PoliticalCitizen]

Walk into any OHIP or Social Service office in any bigger city and tell me what you see there.

No amount of spin will deny the truth.

How long can we afford to do this in these times of economic uncertainty?

We need skilled workers.

I can tell you what I see in an OHIP, MTO or CRA office - everyone working there is an immigrant who speaks more than 1 language.

Spin what? Unlike some Canadians born here who are on wellfare for GENERATIONS most immigrants work and generally fare better then their Canadian counterparts.

How can you afford NOT TO bring in immigrants? The population of Canada is decreasing... who's gonna pay the baby boomers' pension?

Some of the immigrants are skilled workers. But most should be trained here - former manufacturing workers could be re-trained, for example.

[Smallc]

The population of Canada is decreasing... who's gonna pay the baby boomers' pension?

Ok, I was with you until then. No its not.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Ok, I was with you until then. No its not.

Sorry, last time I checked was a long time ago. It is VERY SLOWLY INCREASING:

Recently, Canada's growth rate has been slightly higher than in the United States. In 2004/2005, the last year for which statistics were available, the United States increased at a rate of 9.3 per 1,000, compared to 9.6 in Canada.

Canada's rate of natural increase (the excess of births over deaths) estimated at 3.3 per 1,000 in 2005/2006, is similar to the previous year. Natural increase has been in a long-term decline since the beginning of the 1990s, although it has stabilized since 2000.

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/060927/d060927a.htm

And even then, most births may be happening in the immigrant families.

[Argus]

THere are programs that run 2000$ all costs, a place to stay food, and tutition for 2000$ for a month long bursary. Why not offer this to all the public service, those that have fluency can get management those who don't can't. Make sense.

I assume these are nothing more than brush-up courses. Language training is expensive, GOOD language training is extremely expensive. One woman I know barely missed her B ratings. We let her take part-time language training on her own time after work over the next two months. That cost us about $5,000. But she was almost there to begin with. We sent one manager who had already spent a year on language training to a 1 month special tutorial across the river and that was $11,000 for tuition alone - not counting any salary or extra expenses.

[Argus]

I can tell you what I see in an OHIP, MTO or CRA office - everyone working there is an immigrant who speaks more than 1 language.

Probably because so many of the clientelle are immigrants who speak no English.

Spin what? Unlike some Canadians born here who are on wellfare for GENERATIONS most immigrants work and generally fare better then their Canadian counterparts.

That used to be the case, but is no longer. Immigrants in recent years fair worse than Canadian born, probably because the gap between their third world education and job skills is now too great compared to the requirements in Canada.

How can you afford NOT TO bring in immigrants? The population of Canada is decreasing... who's gonna pay the baby boomers' pension?

The population is increasing, and in any event, immigrants are about the same average age as Canadians anyway.

[Argus]

I really don't think the immigrants will go back to Europe :-)

This hoary old cliché wasn't worth posting a first time, but evidently you are quite taken with it and think it clever.

[Mad_Michael]

That used to be the case, but is no longer. Immigrants in recent years fair worse than Canadian born, probably because the gap between their third world education and job skills is now too great compared to the requirements in Canada.

Please cite a credible reference for this assertion.

You are contradicting every known study on immigration in Canada with this remark.

Immigrants in Canada have a higher level of education, lower levels of welfare usage, lower levesl of unemployment claims and way lower rates of prison incarceration time than white-Canadian born citizens. The numbers aren't even close.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Language training is expensive, GOOD language training is extremely expensive.

So you think Dion saved money by not learning how to speak the main state language?

[PoliticalCitizen]

Probably because so many of the clientelle are immigrants who speak no English.

And possibly because there are much fewer Canadians born in Canada that speak more than one language.

That used to be the case, but is no longer. Immigrants in recent years fair worse than Canadian born, probably because the gap between their third world education and job skills is now too great compared to the requirements in Canada.

I don't believe that's true.

The population is increasing, and in any event, immigrants are about the same average age as Canadians anyway.

The population is increasing at a VERY slow rate. With baby boomer aging and then dying it is aging and may start decreasing. The immigrans come here with at the very least the equivalent of high school - something Canada DID NOT PAY for.

[Mr.Canada]

We do need immigrants but we need skilled ones. However it has been reported that 30% of immigrants that come here with qualifications are on social assistance or are working in fields not pertaining to their expertise. Canada needs to do something about this. If Canada is admitting these skilled people they would be better serving Canada by working in their area of training.

Not by slackening the requirements but by getting these people certified to Canadian standards quicker so they aren't languishing in a taxi cab or on the public dole.

[William Ashley]

I assume these are nothing more than brush-up courses. Language training is expensive, GOOD language training is extremely expensive. One woman I know barely missed her B ratings. We let her take part-time language training on her own time after work over the next two months. That cost us about $5,000. But she was almost there to begin with. We sent one manager who had already spent a year on language training to a 1 month special tutorial across the river and that was $11,000 for tuition alone - not counting any salary or extra expenses.

This is messed up, it is far too expensive, the price are clearly jacked up. Why not send them to live in Quebec (not montreal) for a year or something instead, let them work there have them take instructional lessons and quizes at work .. it is far too expensive IMO.. the 2000$ 1 month program did increase my knowledge quite a bit... I figure if I had two more of these sessions or about 4 months I should be somewhat knowledgeable of the language.. it comes with regular use, so why not train all public service employees with a language element in their work - eg 10 new words in the day, based on their level, and a weekly quiz etc... 5 minutes a day etc..

that is quite a bit for language training. bad policy the government should be abe to run a program for less than 10,000 per enrollee

GIve them a bonus at the end of the year based on how well they did on quizes or promotion based on fluency as a factor.

Edited October 22, 2008 by William Ashley

[PoliticalCitizen]

We do need immigrants but we need skilled ones. However it has been reported that 30% of immigrants that come here with qualifications are on social assistance or are working in fields not pertaining to their expertise. Canada needs to do something about this. If Canada is admitting these skilled people they would be better serving Canada by working in their area of training.

Not by slackening the requirements but by getting these people certified to Canadian standards quicker so they aren't languishing in a taxi cab or on the public dole.

I certainly agree with that.

ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR MEDICAL DOCTORS AND DENTISTS.

It's not like people have a different anatomy or their teeth grow in a different place in other countries.

[DogOnPorch]

The low birth rate in 'the West' is caused by a number of factors coming together. Woman's emancipation plus birth control being the main factors. Not to mention babies are expensive to have without government support. Immigration from countries with neither birth control nor women's rights is somehow supposed to fix this 'problem'. Is it really a problem, though? Wasn't the 'battle-cry' of the past supposed to be zero population growth? WTF has changed? Suddenly overpopulation is now a good thing? I f**king hate politicians.

-------------------------------------------------

Trouble's like a bubble,

And the clouds will soon roll by,

So let's have another cup of coffee,

And let's have another piece of pie.

---Irving Berlin