Palin Derangement Syndrome

[August1991]

Palin Derangement Syndrome exists, why else would otherwise reasonable people on the left behave as above? And now a web site is displaying emails from her personal email account, obtained illegally. These senseless attacks will only help her nomination.

Obama at least seems to understand that denigrating Palin in this manner is counterproductive.

In the case of some Leftists however (eg. posters in thsi thread), it's just stronger than them. They can't help themselves. It is so irritating that an ignoramus like Bush is sitting in the White House.

Then how do you explain Palin's approval rating taking a 10-point drop in the last week and her disapproval rating taking a 10 point jump?

Fer gawdsakes, Bubbler.

You cite Kos to state something that is hardly earthshattering.

Palin arrived on the scene to great fanfare. Her numbers were high simply because she was all over the news. A week later, about 10% of the population has probably forgotten her name. People have lives, businesses and families. They worry far more about their health and their children than about whether Palin is a good VP candidate.

Palin is one of the few VP nominees in living memory who had a truly positive effect on the camapign. (Johnson helped Kennedy in 1960 and Bentsen helped Dukakis in 1988.) The VP choices are largely irrelevant however. The choice is between Obama and McCain.

----

The Kos link shows how obsessive the Left is about Palin. She's just a VP candidate.

[BubberMiley]

The Kos link shows how obsessive the Left is about Palin. She's just a VP candidate.

Obsessive about a candidate on the ticket less than two months before an election? Of course, just as the right is "obsessive" about Obama. But a VP candidate for a president who's 73 years old and has reoccurences of quirky melanoma four times in the past few years is a likely president.

If people are just getting on with their lives, how come her disapproval rating shot up 10 points?

Sadly, the anti-Kos angle to your argument doesn't work either, because, you know, as one might expect, many other polls are finding the same result.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/arc...-to-falter.aspx

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/pal...rs-eroding.html

[CANADIEN]

The Right never makes a similar error with Leftist leaders. The Right may fustigate Leftist leaders but the Right never falls on to the floor writhing in frustration because a Leftist won an election.

You're right. The Right's reaction is not frustration. It's anger on this side of the border, and hatred down South.

[Shady]

Thanks. I'll post where I want and what I want within the rules of the forum but thanks for your contribution.

Good, then don't tell me or anyone else where not to, and what not to post. If I want to post complete adulation regarding Sarah Palin. I will, and so will others. And if you don't like it, then don't read it, and don't respond. Now run along.

[jdobbin]

Good, then don't tell me or anyone else where not to, and what not to post. If I want to post complete adulation regarding Sarah Palin. I will, and so will others. And if you don't like it, then don't read it, and don't respond. Now run along.

I said to give it a rest so as not to embarrass yourself. But by all means, continue on with the fun. Run along now.

[Shady]

I said to give it a rest so as not to embarrass yourself. But by all means, continue on with the fun. Run along now.

Thanks, but I intended to continue on without your permission. If you don't like this thread, stop reading it, and stop posting in it. It's quite simple.

[jdobbin]

Thanks, but I intended to continue on without your permission. If you don't like this thread, stop reading it, and stop posting in it. It's quite simple.

Actually, it is fun to watch and comment on the hilarious sloganeering from the right wing.

[CANADIEN]

The right never falls on the floor and then quickly gets up and claims voter fraud (denial) and conspiracy (more denial).

No. It just claims that "they don't like us" (Albertan rightwinger whining every time the Liberals win a federal election) or "they hate America" (traditional right wing chant). You are right on one thing though... if Gore and Bush's place had been the reverse in 2000, the right would not have mentioned fraud or conspiracy... they would have blamed immigrants, the ppor, gays, lesbians, etc. etc. etc., and probably one or two would have called for the Army to seize power.

It's puzzling to me. Palin is attacked for not having enough experience by the party whose nomination has arguably less

Let's check... Two years as a state governor. Four years as a US Senator. Pretty much the same to me... except that one knows what the questions are about.

She's attacked for not staying at home with her children by the party who's been pushing abortion on demand and daycare so moms can enter the workforce faster.

And the party of choice of those who believe women should adopt June Cleaver as a role model makes an exception when it comes to her, because of her political views.

They're freaked out about her abortion and religious stands when after 8 years with Bush, Roe v Wade is just fine thank you.

Over the past eight years, the Bush Administration and its allies have made opposition to Roe vs Wade the litmus test of what made a good candidate to the US Supreme Court. Social conservatives are counting on Palin to help influence McCain towards getting more conservative minded judges on the bench.

Oh, and she's not RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

Biizarre, isn't it, that the Republican line is that she is eminently qualified to sit in the Oval Office if needed (the sole reason for the existence of the Office of the Vice-President), but the moment that is questionned the alternate line is "who cares, she is not running for the job".

She's attacked for being the mayor of a small town by the party whose nomination's experience includes community organizer, and then they get hot under the collar when they're asked just what in the Sam hill does a community organizer do.

You mean the people who think helping others getting trained for jobs, helping youth at risks, supporting tenant groups and organizing voters' drive is something wrong also want voters to believe that someone who needed to hire an administrator to run a city of 7000 inhabitants could manage a country of over 300 million people if needed.

And now a web site is displaying emails from her personal email account, obtained illegally. These senseless attacks will only help her nomination.

You are talking about her personal e-mail account that she has allegedly used to conduct state business in an effort to circumvent state laws that mandate retention of government electronic records? hacking is a crime, and the individuals who broke the law should be punished accordingly. So should Palin, if she indeed used her own personal e-mail account in order to avoid legal public scrutiny of her activities and dealings as governor.

Edited September 19, 2008 by CANADIEN

[bush_cheney2004]

Over the past eight years, the Bush Administration and its allies have made opposition to Roe vs Wade the litmus test of what made a good candidate to the US Supreme Court. Social conservatives are counting on Palin to help influence McCain towards getting more conservative minded judges on the bench, and they are not even hiding it.

Why would they hide it? It is a viable political and social position for some conservatives.

Biizarre, isn't it, that the Republican line is that she is eminently qualified to sit in the Oval Office if needed (the sole reason for the existence of the Office of the Vice-President)....

False...the Office of Vice President also has a very important constitutional role as President of the US Senate, which entails at least two primary responsibilities: casting the deciding vote in a deadlock and certifying the results of the Electoral College.

But thank you for pretending to know.

Edited September 19, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[August1991]

Of course, just as the right is "obsessive" about Obama. But a VP candidate for a president who's 73 years old and has reoccurences of quirky melanoma four times in the past few years is a likely president.

McCain old? 73 is the new 69 - the age of Reagan when he first became president.

If people are just getting on with their lives, how come her disapproval rating shot up 10 points?

Sadly, the anti-Kos angle to your argument doesn't work either, because, you know, as one might expect, many other polls are finding the same result.

I didn't check the numbers except for glancing at the Kos site to realize that they were obsessed.

Here's spin for you: Palin's numbers aren't down; they were exaggerated before. During the convention, everyone was talking about Palin so her ID numbers were high. Now, the name Palin isn't in the news.

If Michael Jackson were to do something weird this week, I'll bet that his approval ratings would go up too for the simple reason that, after the publicity, many people would recognize his name.

The US is a country of 300 million people. Most of them are busy with life. To them, Palin pales into insignificance.

Edited September 19, 2008 by August1991

[WIP]

A bit lose with a few facts, aren't we? Sarah Palin was never a member of the Alaska Independence Party

Oh! And what are the facts? Should we take the word of a woman who lied about selling the plane on Ebay for a profit, and falsely claimed to have always been opposed to the "bridge to nowhere," lied about opposing earmark spending, in reality, Wasilla received almost 12 million in federal earmarks while she was mayor, Is her claim not to have been a member of the party more reliable than top officials of the Independence Party such as Vice Chairman Dexter Clark, who says she and her husband were members before she became mayor of Wasila.

, not as she banned any library books (although she has raised the issue as an hypothetical question when she was mayor, and btw some of the books appearing on a list of titles she allegedly banned had not even been written yet at that time).

She asked a librarian what the procedures were to get books banned, and then threatened to fire her because she didn't feel that she had her full support as mayor...........but that's okay with you!

Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor.

[WIP]

Your post and indeed this entire thread merely gives credence to the idea of "Palin Derangement Syndrome".

There's something about Palin and Bush Jr that drives some Leftists around the bend. Ronald Reagan had a similar effect. Maybe it's the Left's perception that these people are "stoopid" and yet they are successful in politics. It leads to the Left's major tactical error: they play the man not the ball. It's like watching Lucy and Charlie Brown.

The Right never makes a similar error with Leftist leaders. The Right may fustigate Leftist leaders but the Right never falls on to the floor writhing in frustration because a Leftist won an election.

Really! Never! I seem to remember Clinton Derangement Syndrome back in the 90's. Guys like Limbaugh couldn't shut up about how Bill Clinton was using a triangulating strategy of offering policies that would appeal to social conservatives and seniors, such as funding the V-chip and hiring more police. It wasn't a lot different than the Bush Administration's "No Child Left Behind" education policy was concocted to win some liberal support, but guys like Limbaugh were outraged that Bill Clinton wasn't following the gameplan and was denying his dream of making America a one party state with Republicans as the permanent ruling class.

[CANADIEN]

Oh! And what are the facts? Should we take the word of a woman who lied about selling the plane on Ebay for a profit, and falsely claimed to have always been opposed to the "bridge to nowhere," lied about opposing earmark spending, in reality, Wasilla received almost 12 million in federal earmarks while she was mayor, Is her claim not to have been a member of the party more reliable than top officials of the Independence Party such as Vice Chairman Dexter Clark, who says she and her husband were members before she became mayor of Wasila.

She asked a librarian what the procedures were to get books banned, and then threatened to fire her because she didn't feel that she had her full support as mayor...........but that's okay with you!

Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor.

Sinc I have put the link once and I am putting again (link), pay a visit to Fact check; it is a non-partisan site that debunks "facts" put forward by both campaiiiigns, through checking the facts and analysing them; beats the "if it's bad, it must be true".

If you believe the Vice-Charman of the Independence party, will you believe the President of the Party (who happens to be his wife, but hey), who after saying that Palin had been a member, Apologized ON THE PARTY'S WEBSITE, stating that she hadn't checked the information provided by another party official. The Director of Alaska's Division of Elections confirmed that Palin has always registered as a Republican, and that her husband was at one point registered as a member of the Independence Party. According to the Party, Sarah Palin paid a visit to their convention twice: in 2000 in Wasilla, when she was mayor, and in 2006, when she was campaigning. It is not clear if she attended the 1994 convention, also held in Wasilla.

As for the librarian, the story reported by the local newspaper Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman and later corraborated by Anne Kilkenny, a local resident who was at the meeting and has since written opinion pieces critical of Palin, is that Palin did not ask how she could go about banning book, but what would be her (the librarian's) reaction to a request to ban certain books. Not the same. It is interesting to note that the list of books some claim were banned by Palin before 2000 include some Harry Potter novels written AFTER 2000; the infamous list is actually an exxact copy of a list on the Florida Institute of Technology's web site of books banned at one point or another in some US libraries (complete with typos). And while it is a fact that Palin briefly fired the librarian for lack of support, ALL of the department heads who had supported Palin's opponent in the election were either fired or threatened with firing.

There is enough that is wrong with Palin without taking at fact every tidbit of misindormation.

[scribblet]

PDS is an apt description of left wing lunacy, the hysterical hyper ventilating over Palin is - well - mind boggling. The stuff posted on that hate site Kos has been removed (well some of it) and rightly so. All that hysterical hot air is turning people off the democrats, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

[Argus]

That was the point...your criteria for political experience does not pass the test of time for many presidents.

This is a patently invalid statement. Simply because some people with experience have not done particularly well, that is no indication that experience is not a vitally important criteria in the selection of someone for a powerful position filled with stress and complexity.

We've already covered this....President Woodrow Wilson had less experience than Governor Palin when he took office.

Nonsense. Wilson, an well-read intellectual btw, not to be compared with Palin, who, so far as I know, has never read much of anything, much less written anything, had a lot of experience in academia and the politics and infighting which goes on there prior to becoming governor. It was certainly better preparation than being the "mayor" of a town of 5,000 people. Not to mention that there was no risk of Wilson blowing up the world while leading a largely rural nation.

[bush_cheney2004]

This is a patently invalid statement. Simply because some people with experience have not done particularly well, that is no indication that experience is not a vitally important criteria in the selection of someone for a powerful position filled with stress and complexity.

No, it is completely valid....undermining the notion that "experience" is an essential criteria at all. That's what happens when you play the "experience" game in politics....just ask President Reagan

Nonsense. Wilson, an well-read intellectual btw, not to be compared with Palin, who, so far as I know, has never read much of anything, much less written anything, had a lot of experience in academia and the politics and infighting which goes on there prior to becoming governor. It was certainly better preparation than being the "mayor" of a town of 5,000 people. Not to mention that there was no risk of Wilson blowing up the world while leading a largely rural nation.

Poppycock....you have no direct knowledge of what either had "read" before taking office, and as we know, President Wilson committed the United States to another one of your empire's wars. Your post smacks of elitism, sexism, and a poor grasp of history. Governor Palin actually has more experience in elected office than did Governor Wilson.

[Liam]

...If Senator McCain wins the election due in part to his VP choice, then it will have been a very wise move...

Correction: if he wins due to Palin, it will be seen as a political gamble that paid off. The wisdom of his choice is something that cannot be assessed until a President McCain is six feet under.

[bush_cheney2004]

Correction: if he wins due to Palin, it will be seen as a political gamble that paid off. The wisdom of his choice is something that cannot be assessed until a President McCain is six feet under.

No...Palin's contribution to an election win and administration can easily be assessed whether McCain lives or dies. This is not rocket science.

[jdobbin]

PDS is an apt description of left wing lunacy, the hysterical hyper ventilating over Palin is - well - mind boggling.

The empty sloganeering by the right wing certainly rallies the base of the party. However, McCain is slipping in the polls in part because initial interest in Palin is losing steam as people look at the issue of the economy.

Moreover, the investigation into Palin that McCain didn't think was worth a cup of warm spit has not gone away.

[Shady]

worth a cup of warm spit

Nice slogan, for someone who finds slogans so troublesome!

Edited September 19, 2008 by Shady

[GostHacked]

The Kos link shows how obsessive the Left is about Palin. She's just a VP candidate.

Anyone who is saying anyone is just 'a VP candidate' is downplaying the imortance of the VP role. I mean it is the second only to the President. And if McCain dies during his time in office, she becomes VP. If you don't treat them as equally important (they are a team don't forget), then you are going down a dangerous path.

You are voting a team into office, plain and simple. If you want a good example, Dick Cheney is the most powerful VP in the USs history. Having a staff that is larger than Bush's staff. This is the first time in history this has happened in the US. Cheney called most of the shots from the back. Palin might be able to do the same, and put together a large staff. Cheney set the precedent, and now Palin can call the shots from the back. That is if they are elected.

Obama is still pretty green, I agree, but Palin is greener.

Obama chose a guy who has 20+ years experience. Obama knows he is shoring up his weaknessses and lack of experience with an experienced man. MCCain is shoring up his weaknesses buy choosing Palin as his running mate.

What are those weaknesses of MCCain and Obama that their running mates will make up for it??

[kimmy]

Link

Quite a collection, August. If one disregards the quotes from folks like Roseanne Barr and Lindsey Lohan, who don't presume to be deep thinkers, it's still quite a collection. The two themes that are most striking are the motherhood one, as you mentioned, and this one:

14) "Sarah Palin may be a lady, but she ain't no woman. I confess, it was pretty riveting when John McCain trotted out Sarah Palin for the first time. Like many people, I thought, "D*mn, a hyperconservative, f*ckable, Type A, antiabortion, Christian Stepford wife in a 'sexy librarian' costume -- as a vice president? That's a brilliant stroke of horrifyingly cynical pandering to the Christian right. Karl Rove must be behind it." -- Cintra Wilson, Salon

6) "Her greatest hypocrisy is in her pretense that she is a woman." -- Wendy Doniger at the Washington Post

For years, feminists have bemoaned that "feminist" has somehow become a dirty word. To paraphrase, "Somehow people have bought into this caricature of a hairy-legged academic with no male partner and no kids who calls women "womyn" and talks about "herstory" instead of history and makes a career of complaining about stuff that's completely disconnected from real life. But that's not really feminism! Feminism means that you can reach for the stars and be what you want to be and when we actually talk to women about what they believe, we still find that women really are still feminists even thought they don't identify themselves as such."

And yet here you have this person who has been able to combine professional success and motherhood in a way that many women obviously find admirable and inspiring... but according to the Sistahood "she ain't no woman".

The same people who'd be complaining that feminism somehow came to mean this ridiculous stereotype in the popular imagination, are now furious at Palin because she opposes abortion, I guess, or because she goes to church or maybe she didn't stop at the Sistahood-mandated 1.76 children, or doesn't wear lime-green pant-suits. "Hey, feminism isn't just that ridiculous cartoon stereotype, but we object to the idea of some woman who doesn't fit with our political agenda seeking prominent political office."

The "Stepford Wife" blast has been made by a couple of people here as well, and I find it utterly baffling. How? Because she's a conservative? Christian? Because she's got 5 kids instead of 1.76? Everything I've read seems to indicate that she is the exact opposite of the term "Stepford Wife" in the way that the term is normally understood.

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

Anyone who is saying anyone is just 'a VP candidate' is downplaying the imortance of the VP role. I mean it is the second only to the President. And if McCain dies during his time in office, she becomes VP. If you don't treat them as equally important (they are a team don't forget), then you are going down a dangerous path.

So what? The US has a long presidential line of succession, complete with offices and people you have never even heard of.

You are voting a team into office, plain and simple. If you want a good example, Dick Cheney is the most powerful VP in the USs history. Having a staff that is larger than Bush's staff. This is the first time in history this has happened in the US. Cheney called most of the shots from the back. Palin might be able to do the same, and put together a large staff. Cheney set the precedent, and now Palin can call the shots from the back. That is if they are elected.

Nope....the current trend was started by Walter Modale during the Carter Administration. Mondale had at least if not more influence than Cheney does today, excepting of course that Carter and Mondale were turfed after one term!

Obama is still pretty green, I agree, but Palin is greener.

But Obama is leading the ticket....or doesn't that matter?

Obama chose a guy who has 20+ years experience. Obama knows he is shoring up his weaknessses and lack of experience with an experienced man. MCCain is shoring up his weaknesses buy choosing Palin as his running mate.

Correct...Biden has 20 years experience running for president....and losing.

What are those weaknesses of MCCain and Obama that their running mates will make up for it??

Who cares...if they were perfect they sure as hell wouldn't be in politics.

[Liam]

No...Palin's contribution to an election win and administration can easily be assessed whether McCain lives or dies. This is not rocket science.

I think there's a difference between being shrewd and being wise. If McCain wins because he picked Palin, I think it would be considered a shrewd move. But I think wisdom is different. I reiterate that we can't know the wisdom of selecting her until and unless she is asked to serve in the White House.

Edited September 19, 2008 by Liam

[Shady]

Obama is still pretty green, I agree, but Palin is greener.

I see, so a green Presidential candidate is acceptable, but a green VP, my God, that cannot be!

I reiterate that we can't know the wisdom of selecting her until and unless she is asked to serve in the White House.

Don't worry, she'll be asked to serve in the White House, by the voters, in about 4 - 8 years.