The First Official Cpc Debate

[The Baron of Banality]

For my sins, I watched the Conservative Party's two hour leadership debate on Sunday. I was highly impressed by and could confidently support both Tony Clement and Stephen Harper in competition with the tired old Martin-Chretien cabal led by an increasingly beleagured Paul Martin. However, I found Belinda Stronach to be farther out of her depth than Britney Spears would be if she were explaining shakespearean acting to Sir Lawrence Olivier.

Mr. Harper was impressive in his systematic, logical approach to questions and his clear and confident answers. Mr. Clement brought new policy ideas, passion, humour and aggressiveness to the debate and, to me, beat Stephen Harper by a slim margin. Ms. Stronach brought ten minutes of obviously rehearsed and uninspiringly delivered vague, simplistic policy material and slogans proferred to her by her high priced political operatives and spin doctors. Unfortunately for her and for those of us watching, she had to fit this ten minutes of material learned by rote into more than thirty minutes of speaking time. So she repeated the same material at least three times during the debate, often with only a tenuous connection to questions asked or points made by her opponents.

Indeed, if I hear one more time about fresh (but totally unspecified) ideas, baking a bigger pie or growing a broader base, I shall be ready to heave. The one saving grace is Belinda's presence provided unintentional comedy that made us laugh during this long and mostly serious afternoon. For example, after Belinda's third repetition of the need for the nation to bake a bigger pie and for the party to grow a broader base, I pointed out to my wife that whenever I ate a bigger pie, I always seemed able to grow a broader base. (Actually, if my base gets any broader, I'll have to cut out even smaller pies or get a much wider dining room chair.) In her opening statement, she bragged about running a 75,000 employee company and 45 minutes later she spoke about a 72,000 employee company, causing my wife to wonder if the 3,000 staffers who went missing in just 45 minutes were simply unable to watch her any longer even for money and had turned off their TV sets. At another point, Belinda asked for us to give her 40 days with Paul Martin on the campaign trail and my wife allowed as to how on the basis of her debating prowess this might be even harder for her to handle than 40 nights with her good pal Zipper Billy Clinton.

I remember high school debaters who were better informed and prepared for their task than was Ms. Stronach yesterday. Choosing her as leader would bring the party into disrepute even more than the then new CA party's choice of Stockwell Day dogged it painfully for years. The only question now is will someone on her political payroll have the integrity, ethics and decency to do the party and her the good turn of telling the Empress that she really has no political coattails nor clothes of any kind and should drop out. Given the cynicism in politics today, I tend to doubt it.

[Galahad]

Baron-

How can you put down Belinda? My god...she managed to get to the helm of a huge corporation all on her own merit!

She CHOSE to be born to that family. VERY smart lady.

Ru

[August1991]

NOTE: I did not see this debate but I heard excerpts on the radio.

1. These people sounded serious. Did they agree beforehand not to whine?

2. Stronach sounded intelligent. (Bush strategy: Lower expectations and you win for sure.)

3. The last time the Tories picked a "pig in a poke" or a "dark horse" (whatever happened to these journalistic cliches); that is, when the Tories picked Kim Campbell, it was an utter disaster. Once burned , twice shy. I don't thin k it'll happen again.

4. They may be on the front benches, together. Canadians are Rodney Kings: We love when everyone just gets along. Maybe it's time for a Mondale Westerner to get along visibly with Ontario flashes.

[Galahad]

3. The last time the Tories picked a "pig in a poke" or a "dark horse" (whatever happened to these journalistic cliches); that is, when the Tories picked Kim Campbell, it was an utter disaster. Once burned , twice shy. I don't thin k it'll happen again.

Kim wasn't exactly a pig in a poke. She was a brainiac with political experience behind her.

Sure she & Belinda are both blonde & female...but Harper & Hitler are both brunette males with odd little hairdos....but I don't think it would be appropriate to compare them strictly for that reason, would it?

Maybe a few other reasons...but that's another post.

Ru

[August1991]

I never met Kim Campbell (although I heard first hand stories). Belinda Stronach is completely foreign to me.

For Campbell, I like John Crosbie's description of her in his book "No Holds Barred" (the best book about Canadian politics written since Dafoe or so...)

My point is that the Tories once before chose an unknown quantity with the idea that it would seduce Canadian voters and sink the Liberals.

Stronach is the same story. Well, I've seen that video. The ending is silly.

[theWatcher]

I thought Stronach started off better than expected but her main problem was that she had only memorized 10 minutes worth of canned responses and about 30 minutes of time to fill.

She started off ok but become more of a non issue the further the debate went. She never really answered any of the questions she just repeated her canned responses.

What exactly was her opinion on sending troups to Iraq, or two tier health care?

I thought her post debate media scrum was not handled well at all. Snapping at the reporters who were asking her questions won't earn her many brownie points with the journalists.

Tony was energetic but seemed to be very narrowly focussed on trashing the other two candidates. Continually calling Stephen a wallbuilder is starting to get annoying, we got the point the first 100 times you said it Tony, please come up with something new.

I tend to use the debates to assess what the candidate will look/sound like for the nect term of office. I can't say I would want to listen to Belinda and her inbaility to answer or even ask quality questions. Tony might be interesting, if only too see if he chews Martin's arms off.

After seeing the last two debates my preference is still for Harper but I could put up with Clement even though he's a distant second on my ranking list.

[Goldie]

I tend to agree with the Watcher.

Tony will make a great minister or critic along with those that are already there, like Mckay, Kenny, Day.

Belinda still doesn't fit and I hope sticks around and developes some spontaneity and french.

Some of the best comments came from the mediator though, maybe he should run.

Why did CTV question period laugh at the thought of Prime Minister Stephen Harper? They acknowledge he is smart and understands issues. Craig Oliver defended him but damage done.

[Galahad]

Why did CTV question period laugh at the thought of Prime Minister Stephen Harper? They acknowledge he is smart and understands issues.

EVERYBODY acknowledges that he is smart, & understands issues, etc. etc.. It's easy to praise someone who you know is an absolutely zero threat.

I too laughed my butt off trying to imagine him as "Prime Minister Stephen Harper".

Never in a million years, Goldie, never in a million years.

[August1991]

I liked theWatcher's comment. I too have watched politicians in debate and wondered whether I would want to watch them day after day. Are these people interesting? Do they have something original to say?

Ralph Klein is an example. As were Pierre Trudeau and Rene Levesque. In a press conference, they have/\had something original to say. In meetings with their staff, I'm sure it's the same. As much as I disliked/disagreed with Trudeau, I always wanted to listen to his thoughts.

That's what CTV/Goldie mean I think. Harper is not original. Or he's too quiet.

I'm an Easterner and I know only too well that Canada is boring. (Nothing to be ashamed about if it's clear what "boring" really means.) I'm willing now to listen to a quiet, honest, straight Canadian. We'll see if he's really boring.

In eastern speak, I think the country needs a reality check.

[Galahad]

As much as I disliked/disagreed with Trudeau, I always wanted to listen to his thoughts.

I always get increasingly beleagured listening to people I "dislike" until I stop listening to them all together. Yet I can listen to people I "disagree" with forever and NEVER get beleagured enough to stop.

Are you SURE you disliked Trudeau?

I don't think so.

[August1991]

Agreed. At first I disagreed then I came to dislike him.

(To be honest though, I believe we should live and let live)

But why dislike?

I met his comrade in arms Jacques Hebert who, holding a scotch in his hand, totally ignored me - indeed went out of his way to do it.

This happened in Montreal's Ritz-Carlton, he was a Senator and I had just before joked about whether I should greet him as a Newfoundlander or a Torontonian. I went with Toronto and got the brush-off, as predicted.

Trudeau, like Hebert, was an inverted snob. He believed in the perfectibility of humans. I suspect Trudeau was very lonely as a human. Canada is an interesting country because it has two languages and as a result, we have wound up with strange leaders.

[theWatcher]

Here's a link to Belindas scrum.

Belinda's postdebate scrum

Can anyone guess at what she is really saying?

[August1991]

Wonderful link. Thank you.

Was I wrong to notice how she wanted to make herself clear? "Let me make myself clear..." And she seemed to say "I" often. Why not "we"? Or even better, she could have returned the question to the interlocuters using a question to answer a question... She would have seemed smart then.

I consider myself left-wing and I strongly disagree with people like P. J. O'Rourke. But check out this article about PM PM by some guy named Mark Steyn : Link

[Galahad]

I suspect Trudeau was very lonely as a human.

Yeah...he had three adoring children , an ex wife who still thought the world of him & his funeral was attended by hundreds of personal friends who mourned his passing.

Sounds very lonely to me.

[August1991]

Well, he had two when he died and that's the start of the story.

He was a human, and a lonely one I suspect. I have spoken to too many of his generation in Quebec. Have you ever heard of the Frere Untel? Or Georges-Henri Levesque? Good men, in their way. But missionaries. And somehow lonely, but less I suspect than Trudeau.

[Goldie]

That's what CTV/Goldie mean I think. Harper is not original. Or he's too quiet.

Yes Harper is quiet but I've seen him rip into the front bench of the Liberals when he has to.

Paul Martin starts too many sentences with, Let me be perfectly clear and stammers like porky when the script writers have failed to hand him that response about why he didn't do something or say something about the scandal prior to it being tabled in the house.

I'll take Harpers emotionless but logical and actually clear response over porky Paul anyday.

[RB]

i actually caught the latter part of the debate with the much anxious exhibition of french, and the stumbling and mimicking styles, and good someone provided a link that i listened for a bit

i was impressed with Harper, and Clement who wanted to impress upon Harper

anyway i thought Harper sounded like one of those good government folks you just listen to

Clement reminded me of major, so i questioned some folks whether they'd be interested in helping him, and they had not really followed Clement but are patriotic. i didn't realise a naturalized person can become PM.

anyway, i thought about this whole politics and what's in this for me? and so I decided to write openly to the chairman of Magna for starters

Dear Mr STRONACH

I would like to tell you, in plain words, why I seek to apply for the top position of CEO

Why I have the qualifications to lead Magna in the 21st century.

why I can lead Magna to create a the bestest of world class companies through sheer charm

Because I have never worked in the automotive manufacturing sector.

This means that I can only offer a fresh approach

I meet with companies and ordinary folks looking for work all day long. In fact my target of the amount of people I should meet is set at 44,000 per year, and I am always concern about the bottom line, i.e. the money and production lost that could have been gains

But I have a plan, it is usually to bring these entities successfully together, only I do exceed my own targets by 5,000%

So you see there are successes to speak of, and here is some added value, I offer the only pair of fresh eyes to Magna from the very top

You are looking at someone with a global perspective, in case size matters .. see it is zero zero, and different leadership style

I believe a company should get what it deserves just like we want to give a country what we think it deserve

[maplesyrup]

I think the problem with Canadian politics these days is that there is nothing there to excite us.

And hasnt been since Trudeau left the scene.

god, what a boring group, all of them except for perhaps Jack Layton and the NDP.

[Cameron]

Responce to The Watcher - She sounds like a robot. There is no spontanious responces. As said before, all of her responces sound like they are pre-written and she doesn't have any of her own personal views on things, just what the speech writers say.

I don't know about her. I don't think she is ready to run the party RIGHT now, maybe after awhile in politics.