Is slavery a good idea?

[Rue]

..in any case, just as you have figured out, such things are not relative with Chinese economy but human rights in China, child labour is illegal...some criminal cases just some local peasants who wear police uniforms...such cases are really rare...Most Chinese peasants are no longer very poor these years...

Xul your soft pedalling of Chinese child labour and poverty is not something I am going to buy into today. Sorry.

I urge people to find out for themselves why the use of forced labour, including the use of child labour is not the minor problem you suggest it is, for example;

http://www.tulane.edu/~rouxbee/kids99/china2.html

http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=57

http://www.china-labour.org.hk/en/node/15889

http://www.evb.ch/cm_data/clb_Child_labour...hina_Sept07.pdf

http://child-labour.suite101.com/article.c..._labor_in_china

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=14513

http://m6.mailplus.nl/genericservice/code/...ommand=viewPage

http://en.maquilasolidarity.org/en/node/628.

As for the portrayal of Chinese peasants no longer being poor, I again challenge people to find out for themselves whether the Chinese government has manipulated statistics in regards to its alleged poverty reduction programs’ and whether the masses of China are benefitting from a few corupt sob's who use the state organ to oversee nothing more then an opressive state owned and run sweat shop;

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/T...:430367,00.html

http://www.iserp.columbia.edu/research/wor...ads/2006_04.pdf

http://team.univ-paris1.fr/teamperso/sponc...rty%20china.pdf

http://www.princeton.edu/~piirs/calendars/...per%20Apr08.pdf

http://www.gwu.edu/~econ270/Taejoon.html

http://www.columbia.edu/~sr793/china.pdf

http://www.dfid.gov.uk/news/files/china/urban-poverty.asp

http://www.icftu.org/www/pdf/chinatradeemp...development.pdf.

With due respect Xul I am not interested in the official People’s Republic of China propaganda responses to be used with Canadians on their inter-net political discussion forums. Tell them no thanks not today and yes some of us do read and although they censor the inter-net in China they haven’t as of yet in Canada.

With due respect to your handlers Xul, your country is built on slave labour and child labour and precisely because it doesn’t have to worry about such silly things as human rights, worker’s rights, occupational health and safety.

Spin away Xul but 16.6 % of china (250 million) live on less then $1.00 per day and another 700 million (47%) live on less then $2.—per day and you are well aware China is one of the world’s leading nations in regards to economic inequality.

Now of course I know you would argue the World Bank are liars but they claim China’s impoverished went from 100 million to 300 million in a survey released in December of 2007.

Also appears the economy shrank 40% from the year before.

Your country uses prisoners as cheap labour to produce products;

http://www.uscc.gov/researchpapers/2000_20...rts/pris_02.htm

http://www.cleanclothes.org/companies/adidas27-6-98.htm

http://www.amnesty.nl/documenten/forcedlabour.pdf

http://www.businessweek.com/archives/1991/b3210035.arc.htm

http://www.laborrightsnow.org/chinaprisoners.html

http://www.notmadeinchina.org.nz/.

Here people can go on a tour of your sweat shops at;

http://business.nmsu.edu/~dboje/nike/china.html.

For the record I am not a member of Falun Gong, from Tibet, a human rights worker for Amnesty, a CIA operative, Olivia Chow or Kack Layton or a Progressive Conservative of NDP supporter.

I am a well known member however of the Hollywood movie producer-one world government-international financier-Jentucky Fried Chicken franchiser owner, Zionist, conspiracy cabal.

So now and then I like to remind people that Israel and the US are not the only poo nations of the world.

Regards,

Norman Finklestein

[GostHacked]

Slavery is not good idea.

End of thread.

[xul]

Xul your soft pedalling of Chinese child labour and poverty is not something I am going to buy into today. Sorry.

What I talked about come from real independent source--myself observation or my relative's, my friend's observation or story, not come from the figures which some one post on internet who even had not willing to bother himself to make some story to back his figure. Rue, if you and I knew Arabic, I think we could find countless such "information" about how it is sin to be a Jew from internet if we adopt them without any analysis.

I'm sorry I have not time to analysis every post you searched from internet, most of them even can not be considered as "western media" . I think they are just some anti-china organizations funded website.

But I still can spend some time to analysis the first one to show you how it is incredible:

One of the major social problems in China is child labor. Children in China are an abundant source of labor. In some areas of China children make up ten to twenty percent of the work force.

If you account out the proportion of Children in a country's population, then deduct those kids whose parents are not dirt poor (I think you would agree that most parents will not let their underage children working if they can afford them, it's nature.), you will find that "children make up ten to twenty percent of the work force" is incredible. Of course, the "writer" of the post is dodgy, he used the words like "in some areas of China", so he is "expression-correct", though he did not point out where is the "some area" located....

Many companies prefer child labor because children are cheap, obedient and agile enough to maneuver in small machine-cramped work areas.

Another dodge statement. Which part of which kind of factories are the "small machine-cramped work areas" only a kid can fit in? How many factories have such place to hire millions of kids? But the writer doesn't need to worry about these, because there always are a lot of people who have never go into a factory all their life.

The Compulsory Education Law of the Chinese constitution states that all children under the age of 16 must go to school and are not allowed to hold full-time jobs. However, the government does little to prevent privately owned industrial or commercial firms from hiring children. Up to ten percent of Chinese children hold full time jobs instead of going to school each year.

If we define the term "children" as "a person whoes age between 0 to 16", and we define the suitable age of a child worker is 13 to 16, according this guys' figure, you may find about 40% suitable aged "Chinese children" are in factory.

and the second one:

The International Labor Organization (ILO) has estimated that of the 250 million children between the ages of five and fourteen work in developing countries, 61 percent are in Asia.

My son is five, I can not figure out which kind worker he could be even if being a beggar---for he can not sit in a place or concentrate on something more than one hour...

Though, Titled with The International Labor Organization (ILO) sounds great, just as CIA and International Atomic Energy Agency ever said that Sadaam was making atomic bomb or they told us today no such things happened.

Let's go back some philosophy from those boring 007's work:

Rue, I know you and almost everyone here may have fully confidence on your system's correctness and fairness and I agree it is more correct and fair in your country's internal affairs. But it doesn't mean on everything it is correct and fair especially it is involved in other country's affairs which it have not deep understanding on or being "unfair" might benefit its interests. You believe in some guys "information" because they are "non-state-runned" organization. But have you ever considered that who fund them or they might also have any jobs irrespectively with "China-accusing" business to sustain themselves? Are they really neutral and independent or do they also need to cater to their funders?

And do you think it is "political-correct" that almost every discuss I ever joined, would eventually become a "China fault beating" farce far away from its original topic? I spend many times time to explain what happened in China than state my opinion. How different is this way from that way of some countries in 1930s had ever adopted---"whatever you would say you are wrong because you are a Jew"?

Edited July 16, 2008 by xul

[Black Dog]

I liked it better when Jon Swift did it, like, 279 years ago.

[Oleg Bach]

I liked it better when Jon Swift did it, like, 279 years ago.

I am master and you are slave because I love you...

[Argus]

Slavery is not good idea.

End of thread.

I must have missed where you got the authority to end threads and I don't think this one is quite done yet.

We haven't even gotten into the price attractive young women would bring at the auctions.

Edited July 16, 2008 by Argus

[RB]

We haven't even gotten into the price attractive young women would bring at the auctions.

I don't mind seeing some young, muscular non-balding men up for auction at the market-square. Hugh Hefner forever have more than a few girlfriends to suit the whims and fancies. I mean I haven't heard of women collecting males, so this slave idea might very well open up some possibilities.

[August1991]

Slavery is not good idea.

End of thread.

Agreed, for readers of this thread. When Argus first proposed this idea in the OP, I suggested that we make Argus a slave so that White Doors could have someone cut his lawn. Who among us would want to be a slave?

Well, we have pets (animals) that are in effect slaves. Is it wrong to treat a horse or a dog as a slave?

----

When it comes to China, it is a wonder that so many so quickly have been raised above dire poverty. They are well on their way to being free people with more choices. One generation accepts to limit its choices so that its children or grandchildren will have greater choices.

Slavery, like poverty, is the lack of choice. The way to free people is to give them choices.

In the future, hundreds of millions of Chinese people will be richer. They will be free to choose.

Edited July 16, 2008 by August1991

[CANADIEN]

Slavery - thqat is, in other words, legal possession of a HUMAN BEING by other human beings.

If you are so keen on it, Argus, volunteer to become one. Perhaps we could find you gay male owners.

No wonder that you have a problem with the notion of people having rights.

[gc1765]

Well, we have pets (animals) that are in effect slaves. Is it wrong to treat a horse or a dog as a slave?

Personally, I would draw the line for what is slavery by what is consented to and what is not. I can't speak for all animals, but most pets choose to live with their owner and wouldn't leave if they could. Try an experiment: take Fido out to the woods, get in your car and drive away...see how fast he chases you.

Besides, most of us (myself included) eat animals. Isn't that more wrong than owning a pet?

[peter_puck]

Well, I don't know where you live, but I can pretty much guarantee there are many, many healthy young people in your city on welfare doing pretty much nothing but drinking, doing drugs and fornicating. Perhaps we could find a way to have one of them do your yard work.

You would probably wind up with them drinking, doing drugs and fornicating on your lawn.

[White Doors]

I have 3 acres of lawn too Argus!

[guyser]

I have 3 acres of lawn too Argus!

Thats a lot of fornicating.

Got a camera ?

[GostHacked]

I must have missed where you got the authority to end threads and I don't think this one is quite done yet.

We haven't even gotten into the price attractive young women would bring at the auctions.

Well, if the slavery debate wages on in this thread, it is because some of you support slavery, or this thread would not exist, or gotten past the first page.

Slavery is not a good idea... so nothing more needs to be said .. hence end of thread. It is not an authoratative 'EOT' but more or less a statement of what should be. I use this on other forums regularly. Good example of the use of EOT is on shacknews.com ....

So slavery = bad idea.

If you support slavery, be a slave to show us how much you support it. If not, then it really is the end of the thread.

[guyser]

Well, if the slavery debate wages on in this thread, it is because some of you support slavery, or this thread would not exist, or gotten past the first page.

Apart from the poster, the rest of the posts are joking with the thought.

No one, at least in their right mind , would ever consider the thought serious.

[Argus]

Agreed, for readers of this thread. When Argus first proposed this idea in the OP, I suggested that we make Argus a slave so that White Doors could have someone cut his lawn. Who among us would want to be a slave?

Well who said that was the point? In fact, I was discussing this with a (liberal) friend, and he pointed out a fellow we both know, quite healthy, but never wanting to hold a job. He's been given all sorts of retraining (he has to take to keep his welfare cheques) and then he claims he can't find work. When they find him work he goes, then deliberately screws up to get fired, or claims a bad back or other mysterious ailment so he can't go any more. He's been doing this for 20 years now.

Why am I paying for him to sit around and download porn all day? Why is my tax money going to support this guy and his ilk? Why do we as a society not have the right to stick him in a work camp somewhere and say "There's your bunk, here are your clothes, your meals will be three times a day. Work or leave and find your own food somewhere." Why is this inhumane?

----

When it comes to China, it is a wonder that so many so quickly have been raised above dire poverty. They are well on their way to being free people with more choices.

They are? How much more freedom do they have now then then had ten years back. Can you give a list of improvements to their freedom?

[Argus]

Slavery - thqat is, in other words, legal possession of a HUMAN BEING by other human beings.

If you are so keen on it, Argus, volunteer to become one. Perhaps we could find you gay male owners.

No wonder that you have a problem with the notion of people having rights.

I have no problem with people having rights. In fact, I'm rather keen on it. I get money deducted every month from my credit card for the Canadian Civil Liberties Assocation.

But I'm keen on responsibilities going with those rights, and I'm keen on those who shirk those responsibilities being held to task. Is it a "human right" to get welfare cheques? I don't think so. I think we have a responsibility as a society to not let people starve or freeze to death in the streets, but if you can work but choose not to then you're on your own - or you can work for whoever we assign you to. If you won't work to support yourself, then slavery seems to be a reasonable option.

[Argus]

You would probably wind up with them drinking, doing drugs and fornicating on your lawn.

That's why we need the whipping post!

[Argus]

Well, if the slavery debate wages on in this thread, it is because some of you support slavery, or this thread would not exist, or gotten past the first page.

I know you lack the imagination for such things, but I, for one, can debate (argue) in favour of almost anything, whether I support it or not, either for amusement value or as an intellectual exercise.

Slavery is not a good idea...

Why?

See, that's called debate.

If you support slavery, be a slave to show us how much you support it. If not, then it really is the end of the thread.

But I don't support slavery for productive, self-supporting citizens. I support it for lazy, good for nothing people who leech off my taxes.

[Argus]

Apart from the poster, the rest of the posts are joking with the thought.

No one, at least in their right mind , would ever consider the thought serious.

Why?

And clearly you're mistaken since slavery still exists in many parts of the world.

[HisSelf]

I think slavery is a great idea Argus and I now designate you as my personal slave. Is there anybody here who will help me whip Argus if he does not do what I tell him?

[Argus]

I think slavery is a great idea Argus and I now designate you as my personal slave. Is there anybody here who will help me whip Argus if he does not do what I tell him?

When you start paying for my bills rather than the reverse, as I suspect is now the case, you can put forth that case.

[GostHacked]

Argus

But I don't support slavery for productive, self-supporting citizens. I support it for lazy, good for nothing people who leech off my taxes.

Then what I suggest, is that we abolish welfare. No more leeching.

And even if you have a work program in order to receive welfare, this is not slavery, but actually an untapped cheap labour force. I have to work for my money. More or less I guess I am a slave to the dollar. So welfare people should work for their money as well.

This I don't see as slavery, since most people who get themselves into welfare are lazy. I do understand that some on welfare are there for reasons beyond their control, but for the most part, people are too lazy to get a job when the welfare state gives them a pretty easy life, granted with little cash left over from buying the essentials.

You also have to look at how some people spend their welfare. Rent, food, clothes, ect ect ect... They still pay for most of the same essentials that others work and get paid.

I had a friend who was on welfare, he was working a crappy job like me, not getting paid much, had a wife, and a kid .... and felt less than human. The man has a concious. He realized and understood that he could not raise his kids the way he wanted to on a welfare cheque. He started his own company. He eventually closed up shop 5 years later, but he got out of welfare, bought a house, and him and his wife now have jobs that pay well.

[guyser]

Why?

And clearly you're mistaken since slavery still exists in many parts of the world.

I am guessing it is because we are all free men and women?

Progression not regression.That sort of thing.

[CANADIEN]

I have no problem with people having rights. In fact, I'm rather keen on it. I get money deducted every month from my credit card for the Canadian Civil Liberties Assocation.

But I'm keen on responsibilities going with those rights, and I'm keen on those who shirk those responsibilities being held to task. Is it a "human right" to get welfare cheques? I don't think so. I think we have a responsibility as a society to not let people starve or freeze to death in the streets, but if you can work but choose not to then you're on your own - or you can work for whoever we assign you to. If you won't work to support yourself, then slavery seems to be a reasonable option.

We already know that you have a problem with gays and lesbians being free from discrimination, French-speaking Canadians receiving equal services, and now it is with pne of the most fundamental human rights, freedom.

As many of us have stated, if slavery is such a good idea, volunteer to become a slave. To become the PROPERTY of another human being. Who can sell you and treat you like a table or a chair. Who decides where you sleep, who you talk to do, what you wear, what you eat, everything you do. So go aheadthe walk and then come back to us to tell us how it feels to be a slave.

And don't hide behind excuses like "I work, there is no reason why I should become a slave", You are so jeen on responsibility, be respnsible enough to demonstrate through your own personal experience that slavery is a good thing.