Foreign firms investing in Iraq

[Black Dog]

Iraq is getting there. I too was against the war but I am glad to see that stability is slowly coming to the region.

Well, the ethnic cleansing is pretty much over with, so with that comes stability.

There's no point in looking back. A continued American presence seems to me the best way forward.

No point looking back? Come on. From Day one, this whole thing has been a lesson in how not to run an occupation. Are we to simply forget the lies, errors and malfeasances just because things are slightly better now?

As a general comment: why does anyone bother with b_c20004. He had no opinion and offers no insight. But if it's empty sloganeering you want, he's your guy.

[bush_cheney2004]

...As a general comment: why does anyone bother with b_c20004. He had no opinion and offers no insight. But if it's empty sloganeering you want, he's your guy.

And what do you offer but kneejerk reactions to "b_c20004"....LOL! Why do you bother?

[Shady]

But if it's empty sloganeering you want, he's your guy.

You mean empty sloganeering like this yours?

Well, the ethnic cleansing is pretty much over with, so with that comes stability

Now, it's true that sectarian violence is pretty much over with, but no ethnicity has been cleansed from Iraq. Unless of course you consider Al Qaeda an ethnicity, because it definitely has been cleansed, especially from Anbar province.

[eyeball]

Who gives a crap about how it was "presented"...

Hundreds of millions perhaps even billions of human beings...not that it matters of course.

[bush_cheney2004]

Hundreds of millions perhaps even billions of human beings...not that it matters of course.

Please elaborate.....is this only an issue of packaging? What does it matter to these "billions" how the past, present, and future foreign policy of the United Sates is packaged? I would think that the impact is what matters. Few gave a damn about dead or dying Iraqis before George Bush decided to join the fray.....because of how it was "presented"??????

[GostHacked]

Please elaborate.....is this only an issue of packaging? What does it matter to these "billions" how the past, present, and future foreign policy of the United Sates is packaged? I would think that the impact is what matters. Few gave a damn about dead or dying Iraqis before George Bush decided to join the fray.....because of how it was "presented"??????

Maybe for the fact that billions of people are affected by the US's foreign policy? To them I think it matters. To those dead American soldiers who fought for the control of oil, but their families thought they died for freedom.

Well, even if you don't give a shit about the Iraqi's who have been affected by the fallacy of this war, you should give a shit about your American bretheren who died for oil and not freedom.

I had/have friends that served in Afghanistan. I don't want them to die for the wrong reasons. Some still think it is about freedom, others that know it is about oil, want out badly.

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe for the fact that billions of people are affected by the US's foreign policy? To them I think it matters. To those dead American soldiers who fought for the control of oil, but their families thought they died for freedom.

Oh, so it is just about the sales job, not the violence of military actions. Ditto sanctions and economic blockades. Gotcha....I suspected as much from the start. You want to know that we are bombing men, women, and kids in villages for a really good cause....like Dresden.

American soldiers die for a lot of reasons, and most of those reasons are directly related to freedom....economic freedom. Freedom ain't free.

Well, even if you don't give a shit about the Iraqi's who have been affected by the fallacy of this war, you should give a shit about your American bretheren who died for oil and not freedom.

The resons are one and the same. As a matter of fact, they changed the Code of Conduct since my service to reflect this oily reality.

I had/have friends that served in Afghanistan. I don't want them to die for the wrong reasons. Some still think it is about freedom, others that know it is about oil, want out badly.

I don't want them to die at all, but if they must, they should know all the reasons why.

Edited June 24, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

I don't want them to die at all, but if they must, they should know all the reasons why.

Agreed. And if they knew all the reasons, some won't be happy about it.

Oh, so it is just about the sales job, not the violence of military actions.

Shadey salesmen always screw you in the end.

And this is why I keep saying about the war was packaged. From your statement, you say that it does not matter how it was packaged, and you said that you supported the deceit that brought on the war, and yet you say those people should know the truth.

[bush_cheney2004]

And this is why I keep saying about the war was packaged. From your statement, you say that it does not matter how it was packaged, and you said that you supported the deceit that brought on the war, and yet you say those people should know the truth.

No, I said they should know all the reasons.....the "truth" is a subjective luxury. Like Malcolm X, I support achieving stated objectives "by any means necessary", particularly when faced with adversaries who believe the same thing. Packaging often hides the "truth", because that's what it is suppose to do. Others who are more experienced only need the plain "OEM" wrapper....because they already know what is inside.

[eyeball]

No, I said...blah blah blah...

You are as completely filled with shit as your namesakes were, its just too bad they weren't as honest about it as you. A lot of innocent lives might have been saved otherwise.

[bush_cheney2004]

You are as completely filled with shit as your namesakes were, its just too bad they weren't as honest about it as you. A lot of innocent lives might have been saved otherwise.

But you have your cat, so all is well, eh? Haven't you heard...there are no innocent lives. I guess "shit" wins and you lose.

[eyeball]

Oh, you win all right, you have definitely taken the cake hands down - now all you have to do is eat it.

To paraphrase, few give a damn about dead or dying Americans after George Bush decided to join the fray.....because of how it was "presented".

[eyeball]

QUOTE(Topaz @ Jun 5 2008, 11:02 AM)

Today, the British paper the Independant, got their hands on Bush and Cheney plans to keep Iraq under US ruler forever! ...

DUH! That's why I told you about our big-ass honking fortress embassy that cost $600 million. For the umpteenth time...the USA has been in Germany, Japan, and Korea for over 50 years.

Connect the dots!

Link

Connect the dots... I'm betting you were falling all over yourself in your haste to deny this had anything to do with oil or colonizing Iraq back when people like me were saying...connect the dots...

[Peter F]

Connect the dots... I'm betting you were falling all over yourself in your haste to deny this had anything to do with oil or colonizing Iraq back when people like me were saying...connect the dots...

Actually, if memory serves me right, BC has consistently claimed that Oil, Power and Influence were the reasons from the get-go.

[GostHacked]

Actually, if memory serves me right, BC has consistently claimed that Oil, Power and Influence were the reasons from the get-go.

I will grant the same to BC, he is consistant at least, which is something I do admire. I have a personal love/hate relationship with BC BC is refreshing to me because he is the way he is. Bold, to the point, no fluff. I hate fluff.

If our leaders could be so bold and to the point with more fluff, this world would be a better place.

And when we look at the oil, power and influence, we do get a bigger and better picture of what has happened and what will happen. BC and other posters including myself, have said long ago it was about oil and power. Hell, not many beleived me, thought I was a crackpot.

Example (and this has happened in more than one occasion)

Debating with a friend about the war and what it was about. He thinks it is about freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Freeing a population from an oppressive rule. I tell him this was never the case, just like BC tells it. My friend calls me an idiot or conspiracy nut. But once I showed him some information and the descrepencies in the rhetoric compared to the action, he starts to understand what the war is really about. To sum it all up, this guy had a blank look on his face, depressed almost in a way. He felt duped, he also felt stupid because he felt duped.

I was in the same situation for some time. Thinking it was about freedom. Yes, I was duped for some time. There are many that are still duped.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I was in the same situation for some time. Thinking it was about freedom. Yes, I was duped for some time. There are many that are still duped.

OK...but to your credit, you figured it out. Doesn't mean that you agree with such policies, but at least you are working from a more objective vantage point. Cynically, Americans who were "duped" never understood the nature of Yankee power, and how it is projected around the world. They most certainly have not seen the sharp end of Uncle Sam's killing machine.

I welcome the debate at a pragmatic level, eschewing the feel good but ultimately dead end paths of morality and justice...even justice sips from the fountain of power. Several members contribute at this level, while others are happy to slog about in moral quicksand.

History will provide several perspectives on the "Invasion of Iraq", just as it always has for such things.

And before you know it...."we" will do it all over again someplace else, complete with a great sales campaign. The Hun are coming!

[Shady]

More good news from Iraq!

New Iraq report: 15 of 18 benchmarks satisfactory

Link

[sharkman]

Yup, good for the Iraqi people, they deserve some good times. Within a few years they could be rivaling Iran in the region. After Israel bombs their nuclear envy back to the stone age, Iran will have someone else to pay attention to, and Iraq will be free of Iran's meddling. Such a bombing run could have a greater initial impact for Iraq than anyone else!

Edited July 3, 2008 by sharkman

[Black Dog]

Now, it's true that sectarian violence is pretty much over with, but no ethnicity has been cleansed from Iraq. Unless of course you consider Al Qaeda an ethnicity, because it definitely has been cleansed, especially from Anbar province.

Oh, my apologies, o pedantic one. Sectarian cleansing it is. Doesn't change the fact that people tend to stop killing each other when they run out of people to kill.

[GostHacked]

Oh, my apologies, o pedantic one. Sectarian cleansing it is. Doesn't change the fact that people tend to stop killing each other when they run out of people to kill.

Or when you take the reason to kill away from them. From now on we should ditch the PC terms. Genocide and murdere is what is happening.

Sharkman

Yup, good for the Iraqi people, they deserve some good times. Within a few years they could be rivaling Iran in the region. After Israel bombs their nuclear envy back to the stone age, Iran will have someone else to pay attention to, and Iraq will be free of Iran's meddling. Such a bombing run could have a greater initial impact for Iraq than anyone else!

OHHHHH... you are being sarcastic. Interesting.

Shady

More good news from Iraq!

When you lower your standards everything is achievable.

[eyeball]

I welcome the debate at a pragmatic level, eschewing the feel good but ultimately dead end paths of morality and justice...even justice sips from the fountain of power. Several members contribute at this level, while others are happy to slog about in moral quicksand.

It was always obvious Iraq was about the projection of power just as it was obvious within minutes of the 2nd plane's impact that 9/11 was an act of retaliation for the same. It was just as obvious that the US would soon be mired in economic quicksand if it continued to project its power ahead of its virtue.

So what's the plan now, ruin the economy and create as much misery as possible then create some scapegoat and harness all that hate and turn it into a weapon and project it at the world? Its a dead end but ultimately that seems to be the plan. The only question that remains is, why on Earth you think this is such a pragmatic idea?

Perhaps you're a sociopath. You remind me of a serial arsonist who wants to bask in the glow of a burning world.

[bush_cheney2004]

It was always obvious Iraq was about the projection of power just as it was obvious within minutes of the 2nd plane's impact that 9/11 was an act of retaliation for the same. It was just as obvious that the US would soon be mired in economic quicksand if it continued to project its power ahead of its virtue.

See History of the United States.....long on power...short on virtue. How do you like us now?

So what's the plan now, ruin the economy and create as much misery as possible then create some scapegoat and harness all that hate and turn it into a weapon and project it at the world? Its a dead end but ultimately that seems to be the plan. The only question that remains is, why on Earth you think this is such a pragmatic idea?

Because it is our idea...not yours. We already know what your ideas bring.

Perhaps you're a sociopath. You remind me of a serial arsonist who wants to bask in the glow of a burning world.

Perhaps you are a lost soul...found by a cat.

[Shady]

Oh, my apologies, o pedantic one. Sectarian cleansing it is. Doesn't change the fact that people tend to stop killing each other when they run out of people to kill.

You've tried this attempt as misinformation in other threads as well. No ethnicity has been cleansed from Iraq or Baghdad. There are still millions of Shia and Sunni living in the Capital. Your attempt to downplay the success over the last year or so, just doesn't jive with reality.

More good news:

Iraqis lead final purge of Al-Qaeda

American and Iraqi forces are driving Al-Qaeda in Iraq out of its last redoubt in the north of the country in the culmination of one of the most spectacular victories of the war on terror.

After being forced from its strongholds in the west and centre of Iraq in the past two years, Al-Qaeda’s dwindling band of fighters has made a defiant “last stand” in the northern city of Mosul.

A huge operation to crush the 1,200 fighters who remained from a terrorist force once estimated at more than 12,000 began on May 10.

Operation Lion’s Roar, in which the Iraqi army combined forces with the Americans’ 3rd Armoured Cavalry Regiment, has already resulted in the death of Abu Khalaf, the Al-Qaeda leader, and the capture of more than 1,000 suspects.

Nouri al-Maliki, Iraq’s prime minister, who has also led a crackdown on the Shi’ite Mahdi Army in Basra and Baghdad in recent months, claimed yesterday that his government had “defeated” terrorism

Times Online

This is a monumental step in progress. Because, as most people know, the sectarian violence was being fueled by Al Qaeda in Iraq, starting most significantly with their bombing of the Golden Dome Mosque in Samarra, which started the violent downward spiral. With Al Qaeda being purged from Iraq, it leaves great opportunity to meet the last 3 of 18 benchmarks left in Iraq.

[WIP]

Yeah, too bad the Iraqi-led purge of Al Qaeda is being run by a national army that is stocked with former Badr Brigades militia that are loyal to the Ayatollahs in Iran. Maybe the next U.S. policy will be to sponsor Al Qaeda militias to lead a Sunni uprising against the Iranian-backed government in Baghdad!

Meanwhile, back in Afghanistan:

Last month turned out to be the deadliest for US troops since the war began in late 2001. June was also the second consecutive month in which more US and Nato troops were killed in Afghanistan than in Iraq. If we were genuinely serious about our foreign policy this might at least have raised the odd eyebrow.

This summer, Afghanistan is increasingly the deadlier war of America's two, but there's not much that can be done. Most U.S. forces are preoccupied in Iraq or preparing to cycle out and too exhausted to be reassigned to Afghanistan. NATO forces want no part of supplementing America's brave troops, and the Taliban is marshaling recruits daily, building a formidable and violent counterinsurgency. This was the war that should have been won but for the Bush administration's arrogance.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/b...,0,395802.story

[bush_cheney2004]

...This was the war that should have been won but for the Bush administration's arrogance.

Gee...why didn't Canada win the war in Afghanistan?