McCain:I will win the Iraq war by the end of my first term

[HisSelf]

John McCain is now saying that he will win the Iraq war by the end of his first term.He would be workng with an army that is already on an extended tour of duty. He will be funding it all with an economy that is sputtering as the price of commodities rise and the dollar declines. Weapons will be more expensive than ever and troops will be hard to find. He will be fighting an enemy that has yet to waver and who will be defending on its own turf.

Can John McCain win the war in Iraq before the end of his first term?

[Guest American Woman]

Where are you getting that from? This is dated May 15: Republican presidential candidate John McCain said on Thursday he believes the Iraq war can be won by 2013, leaving a functioning democracy there and allowing most U.S. troops to come home.

[Oleg Bach]

Where are you getting that from? This is dated May 15: Republican presidential candidate John McCain said on Thursday he believes the Iraq war can be won by 2013, leaving a functioning democracy there and allowing most U.S. troops to come home.

McCain can not win the war in Iraq. There is no war. A war is when you are threatened and both sides square off and have it out - for the sake of the just cause of survivalism. This so-called war is infact histories first hostile corporate merger done in a half baked and ameturism military style...it's not a real war..its a mess..and you can not WIN in a mess..you can only clean it up..we do not need a commander in chief to lead America to big V victory..we need a god-damn realist..a janitor.

[HisSelf]

Where are you getting that from?

CNN. A direct film byte.

[Guest American Woman]

CNN. A direct film byte.

Oops. My mistake. I misread your initial post-- I was reading it as 'the end of my first year' for some reason. Sorry about that.

[Topaz]

It's sad to read but over on Yahoo.com news, they are reporting that a US soldier put 10 bullet holes in the Koran and the military are sending him out. If the US keeps pushing its soldiers, they are going to snap and most of them are on anti-depression medication so what does the military expect and how many have to die and coming home half a person?

[bush_cheney2004]

It's sad to read but over on Yahoo.com news, they are reporting that a US soldier put 10 bullet holes in the Koran and the military are sending him out. If the US keeps pushing its soldiers, they are going to snap and most of them are on anti-depression medication so what does the military expect and how many have to die and coming home half a person?

Bullet holes are no worse than Qu'rans destroyed by suicide bombing. Good shootin' !!!

[Guest American Woman]

Bullet holes are no worse than Qu'rans destroyed by suicide bombing. Good shootin' !!!

Evidently the military doesn't perceive using the Quran as target practice as "good shootin'" since they are removing the soldier from Iraq.

"I come before you here seeking your forgiveness," Maj. Gen. Jeffery Hammond was quoted as saying at the ceremony. "In the most humble manner I look in your eyes today and I say please forgive me and my soldiers."

"The actions of one soldier were nothing more than criminal behavior," he added. "I've come to this land to protect you, to support you — not to harm you — and the behavior of this soldier was nothing short of wrong and unacceptable."

The commander also read a letter of apology by the shooter, who has not been identified, while another military official kissed a Quran and presented it to the tribal leaders, according to CNN.

link

Edited May 18, 2008 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

Evidently the military doesn't perceive using the Quran as target practice as "good shootin'" since they are removing the soldier from Iraq.

Then perhaps the "soldier" got what he wanted The politics of it all is best left to the politicians. Personally, I think target practice is a bit more dignified than the reported toilet flushings of old.

....and it will happen again...if only because he said it won't.

If it makes someone feel better....they can burn another US flag.

Edited May 18, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Remiel]

Flags are so easy to come by though. If they were really serious, they would lift the original copies of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independance from the National Archives and Records Administration in Washington. Burning those would probably provoke something more... angry.

[bush_cheney2004]

Flags are so easy to come by though. If they were really serious, they would lift the original copies of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independance from the National Archives and Records Administration in Washington. Burning those would probably provoke something more... angry.

Maybe...the British tried that and it only backfired. Does anybody know the Al Qaeda approved procedure for destroying a worn out Qu'ran?

[Remiel]

I do not really care what the Al Qaeda method is. All people need to do is consider how incredibly stupid it is to take out your anger at Al Qaeda on a copy of the Qu'ran. I mean, besides being disrespectful of the billion or so Muslims in the world because of a few wackos, I mean, really. Do you think that you are somehow rebalancing the cosmic aura of the universe by defacing someones holy text?

Apparently there are " traditional " ways to get rid of old texts, as evidenced by this from www.catholic.com.

Q: What is the appropriate means to dispose of an old Bible?

A: There is no specifically mandated means of disposing of old Bibles. Some Catholics follow a custom of disposing of religious articles that have been blessed either by burying or burning them, but even that is not mandated by law. If the Bible has been blessed you might choose to follow that custom. If not, dispose of it as you would any other book. If it’s still in fair condition, you might put it on a book donation table to benefit someone else.

It is not like this guy just wanted to go shoot some targets to keep his skills sharp. He could of used anything for that. He deliberately chose a copy of the Qu'ran because of some childish impulse about how he was going to be empowered by his noble destruction of the evil document. There is nothing particular special about just any old copy of the Qu'ran, but by doing that he was the one who actually gave it the significance which caused the incident. There was no need of that.

I do not remember who it is that has the Kim Campell quote in their signature, the one that goes something like, " If, in passing, you never see something that does not offend you, you are not living in a democracy. " Who is not really relevant, it is a great quote. People should expect to be offended. I am offended by many of you, and you are offended by me. Fine. But there is a difference between being offended in passing and someone going out of their way to be offensive. That is trolling. It is not allowed on these boards, and the real life equivalent sure as Hell is not a good idea when you are in someone elses country in a diplomatically sensitive situation. I would think that it would just be common sense to these people that you are there to make things better, not worse.

[bush_cheney2004]

I do not really care what the Al Qaeda method is. All people need to do is consider how incredibly stupid it is to take out your anger at Al Qaeda on a copy of the Qu'ran. I mean, besides being disrespectful of the billion or so Muslims in the world because of a few wackos, I mean, really. Do you think that you are somehow rebalancing the cosmic aura of the universe by defacing someones holy text?

No, exactly the opposite goal, even if it means dragging these guys kicking and screaming into at least the last century. They need lots more of these innoculations, and perhaps one day the Qu'ran can be shot or peed on without so much as a letter to the editor.

Apparently there are " traditional " ways to get rid of old texts, as evidenced by this from www.catholic.com.

It is not like this guy just wanted to go shoot some targets to keep his skills sharp. He could of used anything for that. He deliberately chose a copy of the Qu'ran because of some childish impulse about how he was going to be empowered by his noble destruction of the evil document. There is nothing particular special about just any old copy of the Qu'ran, but by doing that he was the one who actually gave it the significance which caused the incident. There was no need of that.

See above....the soldier had a purpose...he is a political "artist"! What ever happened to cheering the views of disgruntled soldiers in Iraq?

I do not remember who it is that has the Kim Campell quote in their signature, the one that goes something like, " If, in passing, you never see something that does not offend you, you are not living in a democracy. " Who is not really relevant, it is a great quote. People should expect to be offended. I am offended by many of you, and you are offended by me. Fine. But there is a difference between being offended in passing and someone going out of their way to be offensive. That is trolling. It is not allowed on these boards, and the real life equivalent sure as Hell is not a good idea when you are in someone elses country in a diplomatically sensitive situation. I would think that it would just be common sense to these people that you are there to make things better, not worse.

Your sensitive point of view is noted, but please be advised that such diplomatic pronouncements may be incompatible with military invasion and occupation. Oh, and matters such as these are probably more significant than your opinion about what constitutes "trolling".

I say again....good shooting!

[Remiel]

I am glad to see that the penultimate goal of Western society is that you can piss on the Qu'ran without raising any objections. For a while there I was afraid that social justice or world peace, or you know, a little economic prosperity. But being able to engage in pointless displays that prove nothing except how far away from our own enlightenment is obviously far more desirable.

As long as people like you who do not see how the little details are connected to the big picture are allowed to have their way, it will continue to be an occupation for a long, long time. Sensitivity to the vital interests of others is a component of victory, not a component of weakness. Though it is not like McCain would care about looking after the details. I mean, it is not like he wants to finish this " war " peaceable by the end of his hypothetical first term... Oh, wait a minute.

[bush_cheney2004]

I am glad to see that the penultimate goal of Western society is that you can piss on the Qu'ran without raising any objections. For a while there I was afraid that social justice or world peace, or you know, a little economic prosperity. But being able to engage in pointless displays that prove nothing except how far away from our own enlightenment is obviously far more desirable.

It is economic prosperity...."penultimate" means next to the last, easily acommodating any such lesser activities in political expression. By your own admission, freedom from being offended is very problematic for a "free" society. Seems to me that putting bullet holes in people should rank a bit higher than simply ventilating a Qu'ran.

As long as people like you who do not see how the little details are connected to the big picture are allowed to have their way, it will continue to be an occupation for a long, long time. Sensitivity to the vital interests of others is a component of victory, not a component of weakness. Though it is not like McCain would care about looking after the details. I mean, it is not like he wants to finish this " war " peaceable by the end of his hypothetical first term... Oh, wait a minute.

But thats the idea....occupation for a very, very long time. See Germany, Japan, and Korea. And yes....we need more "cartoons".

[Moonlight Graham]

Bullet holes are no worse than Qu'rans destroyed by suicide bombing. Good shootin' !!!

No, exactly the opposite goal, even if it means dragging these guys kicking and screaming into at least the last century. They need lots more of these innoculations, and perhaps one day the Qu'ran can be shot or peed on without so much as a letter to the editor.

Its attitudes like these that make people want to fly airplanes into office buildings. Thank you for perpetuating this war of religions. I hope you have many children and grandchildren in your lifetime so that you may instill this wisdom upon them also.

Seems to me that putting bullet holes in people should rank a bit higher than simply ventilating a Qu'ran.

At least that made a bit of sense. But its understandable that this story is making news since there are a massive amount of people in the world, and many of whom are not terrorists, who would (and have) give(n) their own lives defending that book.

Edited May 19, 2008 by Moonlight Graham

[Remiel]

Ventilate, a very nice word. I think it is one that I was reaching for in an earlier post but could not quite bring to mind.

I do not think you seem to get it yet. Let us try an analogy. Say that you have a cold. You have a stuffy nose, and you have been sneezing all day. We are packed into the back seat of a car together and I am concerned about you sneezing on me. Now, I have a cure for your cold, or at least I think I do, but it is a rather slow acting one. I say, " I want to help you cure your cold, but first I insist you stop sneezing. " Do you honestly think that I am holding the high ground by insisting that you have to stop showing the symptoms of your cold before I give you the cure?

Back in the real world, Muslims do not like having their holy book defaced. You are saying, " They have to suppress their anger at having the Qur'an spit on, if they are to progress. " I am saying, " Let us concentrate on being their friends and not making them unnecessarily angry so that we can make progress on turning Iraq into a more democratic society, and then a more free society. " You are so focused on the symptoms you forget that curing the illness is our priority. Help them solve the problem, and the other issues will eventually fix themselves.

Also, if you want to equivocate on the meaning of " occupation " , go ahead. In the mean time, I will worry about the country where they actually have soldiers patrolling the streets, not swilling Heineken or Sapporo comfortably far away from conflict.

[bush_cheney2004]

Its attitudes like these that make people want to fly airplanes into office buildings. Thank you for perpetuating this war of religions. I hope you have many children and grandchildren in your lifetime so that you may instill this wisdom upon them also.

These "people"....that's a very strong stereotype...even racist..oh my! I don't have any urges to fly passenger aircraft into office buildings when offended...and neither do the vast majority of Muslims. Shame on you!

At least that made a bit of sense. But its understandable that this story is making news since there are a massive amount of people in the world, and many of whom are not terrorists, who would (and have) give(n) their own lives defending that book.

Defending "that book"? Do tell.......

Edited May 19, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Moonlight Graham]

Commenting on McCain's comments: It doesn't matter if you are for or against the war, this man is dillusional if he thinks he can win the war in 4 years. And he's just plain nuts that he's making this into an election promise.

Same goes with him claiming he will capture and/or kill Bin Laden in those same 4 years.

[sharkman]

The war is, what, about 5 yrs old? Add another 4 to what's been done and it is entirely doable, despite your doubts. Iraq rounded a corner some time ago and could even be approaching McCain's goal in 2 of his yrs at the helm.

Bin Laden I'm not so sure. The guy could die by then, however, as his health is poor.

But what is deluded is Obama's thinking. Pulling the troops out in short order could undo 5 yrs of hard work and betray the people of Iraq, let alone the 4000+ who have died for that cause. Further, talking to any tin pot dictator without pre conditions (I know, I know, Obama has changed his story at least twice on this one, but the main thing is he wants to do it different than Bush), is just talk, and lends the office of the President of the US to the tin pot's cause.

What you do is, send emissaries to talk in private behind closed doors, away from the press. If anything approaching a realistic agreement happens, then you can get serious about it. But always remember Reagan's policy of Trust But Verify. Clinton did neither and was badly embarrassed by North Korea, who politely signed the treaty Carter gave them and then politely ignored it, and joined the Nuclear club anyway.

Clinton tried the Obama method before he left office with Israel and the Palestinians. He did it in the press with updates, and it went nowhere of course. Bush is now trying to broker a deal, but it's being done in private, so both parties can operate without the glare of the press and Clinton's ego.

[GostHacked]

It is just a book as I see it. Like any other book.

Shoot away. Line up some of your other faves like the Bible, old and new testament, ect. A nice .50 cal maching gun should rip those suckers apart like nothing.

But I am of the non religious type. So they are all just books to me.

But anyways, mission accomplished in 2003 when Bush hit the carrier deck. There is no war. The US is establishing a permanent presence in Iraq. The troops are not comming home anytime soon.

The shock and awe of 2003 and the quick mission accomplished shows us in clarity that this war on terror and especially in Iraq, will not end.

Remember McCains quote of 'why not 100 years' when asked about his thoughts about Bush's comments that the US could be there for 10 to 20 years. That is more than enough for me.

[Moonlight Graham]

Hey i just figured out how McCain is going reach this goal. He'll invade Iran, take all their nukes, and then drop them on Iraq on the way home. 2 birds with one stone!

[M.Dancer]

Remember McCains quote of 'why not 100 years' when asked about his thoughts about Bush's comments that the US could be there for 10 to 20 years. That is more than enough for me.

If anything McCain is the only one with the balls to be honest. Ameica broke it, they should stay till they fix it. If it can be done in 5 years, bully. If it takes 100, hat's the cost of a major error.

[bush_cheney2004]

If anything McCain is the only one with the balls to be honest. Ameica broke it, they should stay till they fix it. If it can be done in 5 years, bully. If it takes 100, hat's the cost of a major error.

The US has been in Germany, Japan, and Korea for over 50 years....were these major errors too?

[M.Dancer]

The US has been in Germany, Japan, and Korea for over 50 years....were these major errors too?

No and neither are they similar to the bungle in Iraq.

1) The invasions of Germany and Japan were logical conclusion to end a war of agression started by Germany and Japan.

2) The occupations weren't a litany of cock ups, boondoogle and political incompetance.

3) There was no asymetrical warfare, insurgency or a complete breakdown of order in Japan or Germany.

Korea

You could argue by failing to win the war America has been forced to stay....so yes, 50 years because of an error...

I never said btw that being in Iraq is an error....I believe america should be there, to fix what they broke.....the error was invading in the first place.

What's the 1st rule? Never get involved in a land war in Asia.....