Obama's "Beer and Popcorn" Moment

[jbg]

These election markets don't behave like any financial market that I know of except maybe the VSE.

Vancouver Stock Exchange?

[August1991]

More than that, Obama's own people surely did not return to Africa or flee anywhere when they were, in 1865, free to go. With all of the US's faults, we are the best place in the world for any black (with the possible minor exception of Barbados).

Obama's "own" people? His father knew what life was like under a colonial regime and his mother, well, his mother knew what it was like to grow up on a Kansas farm. Some have pointed out that Obama doesn't descend from slaves. But to be honest, I'm not sure whether that's a relevant point or not.

In my mind, a significant feature of this comment is that most Americans don't know who Obama is. His success in the polls has been due to people giving him the benefit of the doubt and because people also reckon that the choice is still not critical.

A better known candidate might weather this kind of awkward statement or situation. For Obama, that's difficult.

Early in Clinton's adminsitration, a story circulated that he had held up other planes at LAX while he got a haircut aboard Air Force One. The implication was that Clinton was a country bumpkin who, having made it to the White House, was now on a huge egotrip. Clinton may have his faults but he's not one to put on airs. Obama faces a similar situation now.

Vancouver Stock Exchange?

Yes. Now I think it's the TSX Venture. Edited April 15, 2008 by August1991

[WarBicycle]

It won't any difference which Democrat wins the nomination because most Americans are aware that the Democratic Party has been hijacked by the so-called intellectual left; the same idiots that support Canada's NDP and recently hijacked the Liberal Party of Canada. The silent majority in the U.S. will vote Republican come November.

Edited April 15, 2008 by WarBicycle

[Carinthia]

I believe the journalist published it in a sympatethic column. If you read the contest, the journalist seems as clueless as Obama about the import of the comment.

Actually this Huff reporter commented on Lou Dobbs, that she was so disturbed by Obama's comments that she felt (after 8 days) that she had to turn the tape over to the MSM. I guess she figured he was calling them "hicks" too.

As someone who is anti religion and anti "packin", as both kill, I'm all for whatever Obama misspeaks. Bring it on, it's long overdue.

Edited April 15, 2008 by Carinthia

[WIP]

I would amend your canard about not saying when we're leaving, or the enemy will assume we are leaving. Maybe I'm naive to prefer to surprise the enemy. I don't think it will be much longer anyway, the Iraqis have taken to freedom in a big way and seem to be able to handle themselves when given the chance.

They may be religious fanatics, but they're rational enough to watch the news and are well aware of the fact that the U.S. economy is falling apart, and its military is overstretched and cannot sustain the present troop levels much longer. They know that time is on their side.

I haven't heard of the Saudis having any designs on Iraq, although the Kurds seem to want to become independent.

The Saudis fear that the Shiite-dominated central government is turning Iraq into an Iranian client state, and they are making sure their in position to carve out their share when the Americans leave:

Now, Bush administration officials are voicing increasing anger at what they say has been Saudi Arabia’s counterproductive role in the Iraq war. They say that beyond regarding Mr. Maliki as an Iranian agent, the Saudis have offered financial support to Sunni groups in Iraq. Of an estimated 60 to 80 foreign fighters who enter Iraq each month, American military and intelligence officials say that nearly half are coming from Saudi Arabia and that the Saudis have not done enough to stem the flow.

One senior administration official says he has seen evidence that Saudi Arabia is providing financial support to opponents of Mr. Maliki. He declined to say whether that support was going to Sunni insurgents because, he said, “That would get into disagreements over who is an insurgent and who is not.” http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/27/world/mi...amp;oref=slogin

[WIP]

It has always been a source of surprise to me that leftists who claim to represent the interests of ordinary people have in fact a typical disdain for ordinary people.

WIP, it's nice to know that you think of the ordinary people of Pennsylvania as "hicks". It's also useful to know that Obama explains to rich Californians their attachment to guns and religion is the result of their frustration for being poor and ignorant.

Obama is sure to forge a winning coalition of black folks, limousine Hollywood liberals and white young college students. At the rate he's going, that's all he'll have left in November.

Did Obama call them poor and IGNORANT? Or is that another interpretive embellishment from Limbaugh or his imitators? You provided a link to the audio and transcripts:

"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

If that's the worst he's said, then Obama has more patience for stupid people than I do!

Notice how quick Hillary was to pounce on this! She would not make the mistake of telling the truth unless she thought there were no microphones on. And to me, that's the saddest part of this story. This has nothing to do with left or right! The simple fact is that politicians treat the public like five year olds and mouth simplistic slogans because anything more complicated can be twisted and used against them in campaign attack ads.

Personally, I was impressed that Barach Obama took the risk of trying to explain some of the attitudes of Rev. Wright, instead of throwing him under the campaign bus. This is a refreshing change from the typical "do anything to win" politicians. But I'm not enthusiastic about some of his economic policies, especially his hammering of free trade. He's likely to be a real trade protectionist, unlike Hillary Clinton, who's just trying to make the right noises at the campaign stops.

America won the Cold War. In any war, you can't win every battle but every battle counts. Vietnam like Korea was one battle in a long Cold War.

This war in Iraq is a minor skirmish in comparison. America will prevail in the end. At least, we should all hope so. (WIP, if you gave it some thought, you shouldn't wish for some things - because you may just get them.)

The Cold War was a strategic policy, not a real war. Vietnam and Korea were more than mere battles, and the Vietnam War should have been the last time America rushed in to war without understanding who they were fighting for: they were oblivious to the fact that the President of South Vietnam - Diem, was considered a vestige of French colonial ruling class, but had already committed themselves to defending South Vietnam at all costs, and ended up replacing France as the colonial occupier. They jumped into a war, in a part of the world they didn't understand, and Iraq proves once again that lessons of history are soon forgotten. Wishing doesn't win wars! It takes clear objectives and the abilities to carry them out, in order to win.

----

Look, Obama's fall campaign was snookered before this latest gaffe. He'll win the nomination but there is no way that the American people are going to elect him president. Walter Mondale had more chance of getting elected than Obama. Heck, George McGovern and Barry Goldwater had more chance too. Obama is way out there.

Do you honestly believe John McCain has a hope in hades of winning the election? He wants to keep American troops in Iraq for 50 or a hundred years, if necessary. And he's already admitted that he knows little or nothing about economics. Once the Democrats pick their leader, a little light will start shining on John McCain, and most voters will see him as third term for George Bush. He'll be lucky to win more than two states whether Clinton or Obama is the Democratic candidate.

[WIP]

I happen to be Jewish and left-wing but side with "Christians" on this one.

Could you enlighten me as to what issues you don't side with fanatical rightwing Christians on?

Osama Obama has no understanding of the country he seeks to lead or its common-sense common people. Whether Christian or Jewish America is a deeply religious country. This is somewhat ironic in the face of the strongest separation betweeen government and religion anywhere in the free world. This is a country where religion and conservative patriotic values spring from the very rock, dirt and city streets.

The Republicans are chipping away at that "wall of separation" with their faith-based initiatives, not to mention - faith-based wars!

And, the Religious Right continually declares that America is a Christian Nation. They do not accept the concept of separation of church and state, and will turn your country into a theocracy.

For Obama to believe this is the result of "bitterness" he'd have to believe that our land has been a "bitter" place for 232 years. More than that, Obama's own people surely did not return to Africa or flee anywhere when they were, in 1865, free to go. With all of the US's faults, we are the best place in the world for any black (with the possible minor exception of Barbados).

I don't know whether it's a point worth arguing, but there are black minorities in Canada and Western Europe also. How do they rank on the quality of life scale compared to American blacks.......I'll wait for someone else to look it up.

FYI, some did go back to Africa. Ever hear of Liberia, in West Africa? The nation was founded by freed American slaves in 1847.

As far as getting governments we deserve, are Bob Rae and Glen Clark your speed? If that's what you like, keep it up there.

Aren't you the one claiming to be a leftist? I supported Mike Harris in 95 - who kept his conservatism to cutting taxes and government spending, not demagoguing religious and social issues. The present leader of the Ontario PC's, John Tory, tried to make a play for the God vote in the last election by offering funding to private religious schools. It must have been a tip from Harper's team of advisers!

[bush_cheney2004]

The Cold War was a strategic policy, not a real war. Vietnam and Korea were more than mere battles, and the Vietnam War should have been the last time America rushed in to war without understanding who they were fighting for: they were oblivious to the fact that the President of South Vietnam - Diem, was considered a vestige of French colonial ruling class, but had already committed themselves to defending South Vietnam at all costs, and ended up replacing France as the colonial occupier. They jumped into a war, in a part of the world they didn't understand, and Iraq proves once again that lessons of history are soon forgotten. Wishing doesn't win wars! It takes clear objectives and the abilities to carry them out, in order to win.

Patently false....the "wars" in Korea and Southeast Asia were extensions of American "Cold War" strategic policy, counted in trillions of dollars and millions of lives. Alas, the Americans had much prior experience in dying for French (and British Commonwealth) colonial folly.

[BubberMiley]

Could you enlighten me as to what issues you don't side with fanatical rightwing Christians on?

Aren't you the one claiming to be a leftist?

Like the Republicans, some people on this board think their audience are complete idiots.

[jbg]

It won't any difference which Democrat wins the nomination because most Americans are aware that the Democratic Party has been hijacked by the so-called intellectual left; the same idiots that support Canada's NDP and recently hijacked the Liberal Party of Canada. The silent majority in the U.S. will vote Republican come November.

Very good analysis and welcome (apparently new member) to this Board. This may be on eof the few elections where either New York or California (or maybe both) go Republican since Hispanic voters generally don't vote for people like Obama.

[August1991]

If that's the worst he's said, then Obama has more patience for stupid people than I do!

Unfortunately, we're not all brilliant like you and Obama. Most of us are pretty ordinary.

So, how about this? We'll just let people like Obama and you decide for the rest of us. Obama even has the patience to understand what motivates ordinary people.

[Carinthia]

Hispanic voters generally don't vote for people like Obama.

How would you know that? White males have always dominated the run for President. So how can anybody realistically gage the voting tendencies of Hispanics?

[eyeball]

Patently false....the "wars" in Korea and Southeast Asia were extensions of American "Cold War" strategic policy, counted in trillions of dollars and millions of lives. Alas, the Americans had much prior experience in dying for French (and British Commonwealth) colonial folly.

Now you die in folly for corporate colonialism.

Yup, I imagine Obama is kicking himself good and hard for the folly of playing the intellectual card.

[bush_cheney2004]

Now you die in folly for corporate colonialism.

What do you think Canadians are dying for now? They use to die for a fallen empire.

Yup, I imagine Obama is kicking himself good and hard for the folly of playing the intellectual card.

He sure is....that big "intellectual" mouth can't save him this time.

[BubberMiley]

Unfortunately, we're not all brilliant like you and Obama. Most of us are pretty ordinary.

That's why no one would vote for you for presdient. You should have a pretyy high regard for yourself to run for that job. The U.S. already experimented with a less-than-"elite" president and, if you haven't noticed, it's been a total disaster.

So far, there's been no bitter aftertaste in terms of the polls, however. Obama is still showing exactly where he was a week ago. It may have, at worst, slowed his gains on Hillary in Pennsylvania, but people have not been so significantly offended that it has really hurt his numbers.

[White Doors]

That's why no one would vote for you for presdient. You should have a pretyy high regard for yourself to run for that job. The U.S. already experimented with a less-than-"elite" president and, if you haven't noticed, it's been a total disaster.

So far, there's been no bitter aftertaste in terms of the polls, however. Obama is still showing exactly where he was a week ago. It may have, at worst, slowed his gains on Hillary in Pennsylvania, but people have not been so significantly offended that it has really hurt his numbers.

I'd vote for August as PM. Do I count?

[jbg]

If that's the worst he's said, then Obama has more patience for stupid people than I do!

I see your attitude towards the working class is no better. People have many reasons for not being able to move from areas such as rural Pennsylvania, such as elderly relatives, having houses that have lost value relative to mortgages, etc. Heck, there are still English speakers in obviously hostile Quebec.

Personally, I was impressed that Barach Obama took the risk of trying to explain some of the attitudes of Rev. Wright, instead of throwing him under the campaign bus.

If the "attitudes" relate to "anger" why aren't blacks leaving the US in droves?

Do you honestly believe John McCain has a hope in hades of winning the election? He wants to keep American troops in Iraq for 50 or a hundred years, if necessary. And he's already admitted that he knows little or nothing about economics. Once the Democrats pick their leader, a little light will start shining on John McCain, and most voters will see him as third term for George Bush. He'll be lucky to win more than two states whether Clinton or Obama is the Democratic candidate.

McCain will likely win, for reasons I have explained. If you need a repeat I'll be glad to oblige.

[WIP]

Unfortunately, we're not all brilliant like you and Obama. Most of us are pretty ordinary.

There's nothing wrong with being ordinary. My formal education ended after high school, but I make an effort to keep learning. What is inexcusable is being wilfully ignorant, like continuing to support the same people and the same policies that are ruining your life!

So, how about this? We'll just let people like Obama and you decide for the rest of us. Obama even has the patience to understand what motivates ordinary people.

Hardy har, har! The problem is the number of people who rely on trusted authority figures to do their thinking for them..........I think there's one of them on his way over to America right now! The point is that people should have reasons for their beliefs, and put them to the test when new information and new knowledge comes along.

In my lifetime I have supported the N.D.P, then moved over to the Liberals, moved further right and joined the Reform Party and supported the Mike Harris campaign, and bailed when Ernie Eves took over. And, I think I've made it clear that I'm not happy with the Harper's attempt to make the Conservative Party the Northern branch of the Republican Party. Next federal election, I'll probably vote for the Green Party unless there is a good chance that Dion can knock off Harper when he feels confident enough to call an election and try for a majority in the House.

[WIP]

I see your attitude towards the working class is no better. People have many reasons for not being able to move from areas such as rural Pennsylvania, such as elderly relatives, having houses that have lost value relative to mortgages, etc. Heck, there are still English speakers in obviously hostile Quebec.

Excuse me, but I am working class! And I live in a city that's in decline and where the majority of young people cannot find decent jobs unless they either leave home or join the already overcrowded commute to Toronto and the surrounding area.

The fatal flaw in the political attitudes here is the same as many American industrial cities: the steel mills and other heavy industries in Hamilton were viewed as cash cows that could always deliver extra money when needed. As a result, increasing commercial property taxes kept a lot of new businesses from coming into this area. Now that the factories are closing, there's nothing to fill the gap. It's a similar story that people from Buffalo and my relatives in Michigan tell me.

And, at one time, young people had no choice except to leave areas that were going downhill. My father left Eastern Quebec when he was 15 during the Depression. Along with his brothers, they had to ride the boxcars across Canada looking for work, until they heard about the hydro-electric projects and other big construction jobs that were happening in Niagara Falls at the time. Back then, there was no welfare or unemployment insurance, so people left Quebec and the Maritimes in droves. Out of his seven brothers and sisters who survived to adulthood, I only had one uncle who was able to stay down east and make a living by opening his own store. On our trips back home in later years, he told us that most of his customers were either on welfare or some form of disability pensions. And that's why many people become complacent and stay in the poverty zones. Leaving home for a new life in a new town is scary and uncertain. People who lack confidence will take the government cheque and the substandard quality of life, rather than take the risk of leaving.

If the "attitudes" relate to "anger" why aren't blacks leaving the US in droves?

Same reason the hillbillies and others are staying put, as noted above.

McCain will likely win, for reasons I have explained. If you need a repeat I'll be glad to oblige.

I'll leave that up to you. I haven't been here that long, and either I wasn't paying attention to the thread or it was before I joined.

Even though I consider McCain a step up from George Bush, the only way he could really separate himself from being viewed as Dubya's third term is if he changed his extreme war hawk position on Iraq and other foreign interventions. He believes the Neocon strategy too much to put any distance between himself and the Bush Admins disastrous war policy.

[BubberMiley]

I'd vote for August as PM. Do I count?

Most people have higher standards for a leader than an anonymous internet poster who admits to being of "ordinary" intelligence.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Even though I consider McCain a step up from George Bush, the only way he could really separate himself from being viewed as Dubya's third term is if he changed his extreme war hawk position on Iraq and other foreign interventions. He believes the Neocon strategy too much to put any distance between himself and the Bush Admins disastrous war policy.

Why would Senator McCain want to distance himself from the policies deemed good enough for NATO/Canadian "interventions" (e.g. Serbia, Haiti, Afghanistan) ? Have you seen the new US embassy in Iraq....it's bigger than the Vatican!

[BubberMiley]

....that big "intellectual" mouth can't save him this time.

On the contrary, it appears that, after days of media elites speculating on how "working class" people would react to a person who is seeking an elite job speaking in a way that, in a stretch, could be perceived as "elitist," Obama now has his best numbers yet this year. http://www.gallup.com/poll/106537/Gallup-D...Clinton-40.aspx

[Carinthia]

Have you seen the new US embassy in Iraq....it's bigger than the Vatican!

And bridges and infrastructure is crumbling in your own country. Makes sense to me. McCain will keep pumping your hard earned dollars into Iraq for the next 4 years after January. You well deserve him.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Carinthia

[bush_cheney2004]

And bridges and infrastructure is crumbling in your own country. Makes sense to me. McCain will keep pumping your hard earned dollars into Iraq for the next 4 years after January. You well deserve him.

Oh, you mean like the highway overpass collapsed in Laval? All while Canada is off building new infrastructure in Afghanistan.

See how easy that was?

[BubberMiley]

See how easy that was?

It's always easy to respond with irrelevance.