Obama's "Beer and Popcorn" Moment

[jbg]

Barack Obama has had a "beer and popcorn" moment. In discussing his difficulties with working-class voters he stated, on Sunday, April 6: "It's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." His "retraction" wasn't much better (link to article):

The campaign has been quick to react, hoping to defuse any damage caused with working class voters that Obama needs to win over in upcoming primaries in Pennsylvania and Indiana.

"Lately there has been a little typical sort of political flare up because I said something that everybody knows is true, which is that there are a whole bunch of folks in small towns in Pennsylvania, in towns right here in Indiana, in my hometown in Illinois who are bitter," Obama said Saturday morning at Ball State University. "They are angry. They feel like they have been left behind. They feel like nobody is paying attention to what they're going through."

"So I said, well you know, when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on. So people, they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country or they get frustrated about you know how things are changing."

After acknowledging that his previous remarks could have been better phrased, he added:

"The truth is that these traditions that are passed on from generation to generation those are important. That's what sustains us. But what is absolutely true is that people don't feel like they are being listened to.

"And so they pray and they count on each other and they count on their families. You know this in your own lives, and what we need is a government that is actually paying attention. Government that is fighting for working people day in and day out making sure that we are trying to allow them to live out the American dream."

This just shows a certain focus on "elites". The ordinary voters are ignored, at the peril of these politicians, whether PMPM or Obama.

[bush_cheney2004]

....This just shows a certain focus on "elites". The ordinary voters are ignored, at the peril of these politicians, whether PMPM or Obama.

Hard to say how much Senator Obama wil pay for this mistake....he will not lose his "elite" base, or black voters of all economic stripes. This certainly gives Senator Clinton reason for hope in PA, but it is too little too late.

Methinks the biggest beneficiary from this brain fart is probably Senator McCain.

[Carinthia]

My, my, between Pastor Wright and Obama, the raw truth is finally coming out. Obama now just needs to worry that he may have offended the religious or gun lovers. But these folks would probably have voted for McCain anyhow, so not much to worry about there really.

There was an elderly Republican "ordinary dude" from Pennsylvania interviewed on Fox News this morning. He said Obama speaks the truth as far as he's concerned, although he said he has always been a McCain supporter. So if it isn't offending elder Reps, I doubt it will have much of a negative impact on Obama Dem supporters.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Carinthia

[August1991]

This just shows a certain focus on "elites". The ordinary voters are ignored, at the peril of these politicians, whether PMPM or Obama.

Thanks jbg for drawing my attention to this. I think the context of the original quote is as damning as the quote itself. Obama was speaking privately to wealthy Californians.

Obama has somehow gone from John F Kennedy to John F Kerry.

[bush_cheney2004]

Obama has somehow gone from John F Kennedy to John F Kerry.

Perfect! This explains the Harris-Decima poll in Canada too.

[BubberMiley]

Bitter people never like you to say how bitter they are?

[Carinthia]

I find it curious that the reporter from the Huffington Post waited 8 days to make her little tape public. Gee, do you think maybe some loot may have exchanged hands in the course of this revelation?

Edited April 13, 2008 by Carinthia

[bush_cheney2004]

I find it curious that the reporter from the Huffington Post waited 8 days to make her little tape public. Gee, do you think maybe some loot may have exchanged hands in the course of this revelation?

Nope...it took 16 years to get the MP Tom Lukiwski tape......8 days is pretty fast compared to that.

[Carinthia]

Nope...it took 16 years to get the MP Tom Lukiwski tape......8 days is pretty fast compared to that.

If she had waited 16 years, Obama's Presidency would be long over.

The Huff is liberal and an Obama supporter, so why would one of their own do this, unless there was gold at the end of the rainbow.

[jbg]

The Huff is liberal and an Obama supporter, so why would one of their own do this, unless there was gold at the end of the rainbow.

Even if there was Huff's just reporting what it knows, which is a function of a free press.

[BubberMiley]

Even if there was Huff's just reporting what it knows, which is a function of a free press.

Maybe they just thought it was no big deal.

[sharkman]

Obama now just needs to worry that he may have offended the religious or gun lovers. But these folks would probably have voted for McCain anyhow, so not much to worry about there really.

There was an elderly Republican "ordinary dude" from Pennsylvania interviewed on Fox News this morning. He said Obama speaks the truth as far as he's concerned, although he said he has always been a McCain supporter. So if it isn't offending elder Reps, I doubt it will have much of a negative impact on Obama Dem supporters.

Obama hasn't offended, he has insulted. Not the religious or gun lovers, but small town america in general. That he tried to later explain what he really meant shows he realized his comments were damaging. I agree with others though that his supporters will suffer these wounds gladly or see nothing wrong with his views on the little people.

I'm sure McCain's camp is glad to receive this kind of ammo that Obama keeps on forking over.

[eyeball]

Barack Obama has had a "beer and popcorn" moment. In discussing his difficulties with working-class voters he stated, on Sunday, April 6: "It's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." His "retraction" wasn't much better (link to article):

This just shows a certain focus on "elites". The ordinary voters are ignored, at the peril of these politicians, whether PMPM or Obama.

I think the reaction to the truth of what Barack Obama said shows how effective the American right-wing echo-chamber and the likes of Rush Limbaugh have been at confusing millions of Americans. Oh well stupid is as stupid does I guess, people still need to take responsibility for their own ignorance, if they can't they'll continue to get the governments they deserve.

Methinks the biggest beneficiary from this brain fart is probably Senator McCain.

Nothing like a little political incorrectness to float your boat eh?

[WIP]

I think the reaction to the truth of what Barack Obama said shows how effective the American right-wing echo-chamber and the likes of Rush Limbaugh have been at confusing millions of Americans. Oh well stupid is as stupid does I guess, people still need to take responsibility for their own ignorance, if they can't they'll continue to get the governments they deserve.

Nothing like a little political incorrectness to float your boat eh?

Bullseye!

Obama is honest enough to say that his background doesn't equip him to fully understand the viewpoint of white, rural voters - unlike that "first black president," who claimed that his high number of black appointees gave him full understanding of the black experience! And Obama is absolutely right that Republicans have used guns and God to induce those same white rural and suburban voters to vote against their economic interests! Look at what George Bush offered Republican congressmen to run on in 2006:

1. fear of terrorist attacks

2. a defense of marriage amendment

3. a ban on embryonic stem cell research

No one in the Republican brain-trust would suggest tackling issues like: an exit strategy for the Iraq War or an economic policy to address the growing consumer debt load, which is now sending the U.S. and soon the rest of the world, into a depression. Bush and Bush's brain (Karl Rove) thought that they could keep playing the fear card. This B.S. isn't working in suburbia anymore, and soon it won't work on the farmers and others living out in the boonies either!

[sharkman]

Bullseye!

Obama is honest enough to say that his background doesn't equip him to fully understand the viewpoint of white, rural voters - unlike that "first black president," who claimed that his high number of black appointees gave him full understanding of the black experience! And Obama is absolutely right that Republicans have used guns and God to induce those same white rural and suburban voters to vote against their economic interests! Look at what George Bush offered Republican congressmen to run on in 2006:

1. fear of terrorist attacks

2. a defense of marriage amendment

3. a ban on embryonic stem cell research

No one in the Republican brain-trust would suggest tackling issues like: an exit strategy for the Iraq War or an economic policy to address the growing consumer debt load, which is now sending the U.S. and soon the rest of the world, into a depression. Bush and Bush's brain (Karl Rove) thought that they could keep playing the fear card. This B.S. isn't working in suburbia anymore, and soon it won't work on the farmers and others living out in the boonies either!

First, Obama claimed to know the viewpoints of the white rural voters with his remarks that started this controversy. He obviously doesn't know, and regardless of his background, if he is so out of touch now he has no business running for president.

I agree with your comments on Bill Clinton and Dubya's 2006 strategy in general, although his three main points did indeed keep Republican losses from being much worse. Their losses were mainly to do with the war and people's impatience with how long it's taking, which is to totally misunderstand their terrorist enemies. So be it.

The Republican brain trust is all about an exit strategy, don't you think if they would have been confident about bringing the troops home they would have, and reaped the polling rewards, which would no doubt hand McCain the presidency on a silver platter? But to announce a date only fires up the enemy, something that is completely lost on democrats and liberals for some reason.

Your comments on the economy are not worth responding to.

[WIP]

First, Obama claimed to know the viewpoints of the white rural voters with his remarks that started this controversy. He obviously doesn't know, and regardless of his background, if he is so out of touch now he has no business running for president.

I agree with your comments on Bill Clinton and Dubya's 2006 strategy in general, although his three main points did indeed keep Republican losses from being much worse. Their losses were mainly to do with the war and people's impatience with how long it's taking, which is to totally misunderstand their terrorist enemies. So be it.

The Republican brain trust is all about an exit strategy, don't you think if they would have been confident about bringing the troops home they would have, and reaped the polling rewards, which would no doubt hand McCain the presidency on a silver platter? But to announce a date only fires up the enemy, something that is completely lost on democrats and liberals for some reason.

Your comments on the economy are not worth responding to.

Obama offered a hypothesis to explain why people vote against their economic interests. It sounded like he was trying to understand these hicks, not that he was claiming to know what they were thinking!

I'm old enough to remember that canard about "we can't say when we're leaving, or the enemy will assume we are weak," from the last time it was trotted out during the Vietnam War. After a long, expensive draw-down of American troops, Nixon left the South with an unpopular dictatorship that the majority of people could not support, even in the face of an impending invasion from the North.

So the exit strategy was U.S. helicopters evacuating the fortunate few from the roof of their embassy in Saigon. I'm expecting history to repeat itself if McLame or Hillary get elected, since she'll be too concerned with proving she's a wartime leader to set up a sensible exit strategy. The only viable exit strategy is WE'RE LEAVING STARTING NOW! Then the Sunnis and Shiites can decide whether they can cooperate to form a national government or would prefer the country to be divided up between Saudi Arabia and Iran - which will be the natural course of events if the Bush Strategy continues much longer! The only one with an exit strategy under the Bush plan is George Bush himself! He's gone next January, and he wants to make sure the War doesn't end in disaster until he's safely out of office!

[eyeball]

Knowledge, far from curing stupidity, tends to aggravate it. - George Jonas

This is especially true in the context of John Stuart Mill's observation that conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.

[sharkman]

This is especially true in the context of John Stuart Mill's observation that conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.

Okay, I'll trot out an observation calling liberals stupid: If you're not a liberal by the time you're 20, you haven't got a heart and if you're not a conservative by the time you're 30 you haven't got a brain.

However I must admit my heart isn't in it, I have seen to much to believe one side or the other has the franchise on stupidity.

Edited April 14, 2008 by sharkman

[sharkman]

I'm old enough to remember that canard about "we can't say when we're leaving, or the enemy will assume we are weak," from the last time it was trotted out during the Vietnam War. After a long, expensive draw-down of American troops, Nixon left the South with an unpopular dictatorship that the majority of people could not support, even in the face of an impending invasion from the North.

So the exit strategy was U.S. helicopters evacuating the fortunate few from the roof of their embassy in Saigon. I'm expecting history to repeat itself if McLame or Hillary get elected, since she'll be too concerned with proving she's a wartime leader to set up a sensible exit strategy. The only viable exit strategy is WE'RE LEAVING STARTING NOW! Then the Sunnis and Shiites can decide whether they can cooperate to form a national government or would prefer the country to be divided up between Saudi Arabia and Iran - which will be the natural course of events if the Bush Strategy continues much longer! The only one with an exit strategy under the Bush plan is George Bush himself! He's gone next January, and he wants to make sure the War doesn't end in disaster until he's safely out of office!

I would amend your canard about not saying when we're leaving, or the enemy will assume we are leaving. Maybe I'm naive to prefer to surprise the enemy. I don't think it will be much longer anyway, the Iraqis have taken to freedom in a big way and seem to be able to handle themselves when given the chance. I haven't heard of the Saudis having any designs on Iraq, although the Kurds seem to want to become independent.

[eyeball]

However I must admit my heart isn't in it, I have seen to much to believe one side or the other has the franchise on stupidity.

Yep, you're a fart smeller too I see.

[sharkman]

Yep, you're a fart smeller too I see.

Why, did you just fart?

[August1991]

Obama offered a hypothesis to explain why people vote against their economic interests. It sounded like he was trying to understand these hicks, not that he was claiming to know what they were thinking!

It has always been a source of surprise to me that leftists who claim to represent the interests of ordinary people have in fact a typical disdain for ordinary people.

WIP, it's nice to know that you think of the ordinary people of Pennsylvania as "hicks". It's also useful to know that Obama explains to rich Californians their attachment to guns and religion is the result of their frustration for being poor and ignorant.

Obama is sure to forge a winning coalition of black folks, limousine Hollywood liberals and white young college students. At the rate he's going, that's all he'll have left in November.

I find it curious that the reporter from the Huffington Post waited 8 days to make her little tape public. Gee, do you think maybe some loot may have exchanged hands in the course of this revelation?

I believe the journalist published it in a sympatethic column. If you read the contest, the journalist seems as clueless as Obama about the import of the comment.

I'm old enough to remember that canard about "we can't say when we're leaving, or the enemy will assume we are weak," from the last time it was trotted out during the Vietnam War. After a long, expensive draw-down of American troops, Nixon left the South with an unpopular dictatorship that the majority of people could not support, even in the face of an impending invasion from the North.

America won the Cold War. In any war, you can't win every battle but every battle counts. Vietnam like Korea was one battle in a long Cold War.

This war in Iraq is a minor skirmish in comparison. America will prevail in the end. At least, we should all hope so. (WIP, if you gave it some thought, you shouldn't wish for some things - because you may just get them.)

----

Look, Obama's fall campaign was snookered before this latest gaffe. He'll win the nomination but there is no way that the American people are going to elect him president. Walter Mondale had more chance of getting elected than Obama. Heck, George McGovern and Barry Goldwater had more chance too. Obama is way out there.

[BubberMiley]

The "controversy" over those remarks was completely manufactured to appeal to those who feel any politically incorrect remark is big news. But if the remarks weren't in fact true, I think they might have lowered Obama's stock. In terms of my trusty online betting sites, it has barely made a dent in his prospects for the presidency.

THose who think he doesn't stand a chace should put their money where their mouth is now while the odds are good. Today he's still 10 points above McCain.

[August1991]

THose who think he doesn't stand a chace should put their money where their mouth is now while the odds are good. Today he's still 10 points above McCain.

I went to the Iowa site to see if I could make a few bucks. The registration process is too complicated and I have a suspicion that the market is thin. I noticed that students are required to register as part of their classes.

Another election site took forever to load.

These election markets don't behave like any financial market that I know of except maybe the VSE.

[jbg]

And Obama is absolutely right that Republicans have used guns and God to induce those same white rural and suburban voters to vote against their economic interests!

I think the reaction to the truth of what Barack Obama said shows how effective the American right-wing echo-chamber and the likes of Rush Limbaugh have been at confusing millions of Americans. Oh well stupid is as stupid does I guess, people still need to take responsibility for their own ignorance, if they can't they'll continue to get the governments they deserve.

I happen to be Jewish and left-wing but side with "Christians" on this one. Osama Obama has no understanding of the country he seeks to lead or its common-sense common people. Whether Christian or Jewish America is a deeply religious country. This is somewhat ironic in the face of the strongest separation betweeen government and religion anywhere in the free world. This is a country where religion and conservative patriotic values spring from the very rock, dirt and city streets.

For Obama to believe this is the result of "bitterness" he'd have to believe that our land has been a "bitter" place for 232 years. More than that, Obama's own people surely did not return to Africa or flee anywhere when they were, in 1865, free to go. With all of the US's faults, we are the best place in the world for any black (with the possible minor exception of Barbados).

As far as getting governments we deserve, are Bob Rae and Glen Clark your speed? If that's what you like, keep it up there.

Obama is honest enough to say that his background doesn't equip him to fully understand the viewpoint of white, rural voters - unlike that "first black president," who claimed that his high number of black appointees gave him full understanding of the black experience!

I.e. he's clueless abouto a major chunk of the country. Or just looks down on it.

Look at what George Bush offered Republican congressmen to run on in 2006:

1. fear of terrorist attacks

2. a defense of marriage amendment

3. a ban on embryonic stem cell research

I agree with you on Number 3. As to Number 1, see next paragraph below last quote from you. As for "defense of marriage" why should North Dakota be forced to accept the bizarre construction of "marriage" by the Massachusetts Supreme Court?

No one in the Republican brain-trust would suggest tackling issues like: an exit strategy for the Iraq War or an economic policy to address the growing consumer debt load, which is now sending the U.S. and soon the rest of the world, into a depression. Bush and Bush's brain (Karl Rove) thought that they could keep playing the fear card. This B.S. isn't working in suburbia anymore, and soon it won't work on the farmers and others living out in the boonies either!

Maybe if we (meaning the English-speaking West) hadn't "exited" Africa and Asia before the people had a chance to organize themselves so their newly-minted countries would be democracies rather than thugocracies, we wouldn't have had Saddam prancing around threatening to wreak devastation on the US and Israel. Maybe Zimbabwe would still be a thriving, prosperous exporter of food. Maybe Kenya's 2007 election wouldn't have turned into a violent fiasco.