UShaditComing Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 This thread is about US lies to justify war. We should all be very familiar by now about the US lies of the WMD in Iraq and the lies about the yellow cake. Most would know about the incubators lie prior to the first war against Iraq where it was claimed that babies were thrown on the cold floor by Iraqi troops so Saddam could use the incubators for making biological weapons. But apparently there are people who don't know about the US fabrication satellite picture evidence that Iraq had amassed over 100,000 troops and thousands of tanks on the Saudi border with Kuwait in preparation for an invasion of Saudi. The lies were exposed in this case by Russian civilian satellite pictures which were procured by the St. Petersburg Times which showed conclusively that there was no military buildup and hence no threat of an invasion of Saudi territory. The following link is one of many which can be found by searching for the subject on the internet. http://www.representativepress.org/LiesAboutIraq.html The main purpose of this thread was to bring this to shady's attention because he claimed to not be aware of it but I think a thread on US lies for war is a good idea anyway because there are so many lies told byy the US to provide justification for their wars against Iraq. And I would not limit this thread to just Iraq because the lies are starting up anew in the demonization of Venezuela which appears to be on the US hit list and also lies told to demonize Iran and Ahmadinejad. Specifically, the lie about his saying that Israel should be wiped from the map or the face of the earth, whatever the current version. He said no such thing. Any other US lies to justify war would be more than welcome on this thread but it is not meant to limit the topic specifically to US lies. The intention is to provide some latitude for other topics which relate to US proposed wars and past US wars. Quote When the US stops killing them over there they will stop killing Americans over here.
M.Dancer Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 I wasn't aware that an imminent attack of Saudi Arabia was used as a justifictaion for aiding Kuwait. I assumed the defacto invasion was reason enough. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
UShaditComing Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Posted March 12, 2008 (edited) I wasn't aware that an imminent attack of Saudi Arabia was used as a justifictaion for aiding Kuwait. I assumed the defacto invasion was reason enough. No, there were several problems which arose over attacking Kuwait to kill Iraqis and so the US needed some solid justification to do the job and to also convince Saudi that a US amassing of forces on their territory was warranted. The Saudis then felt threatened we are led to believe and allowed the US troop buildup in Saudi. Or at least that's what we are supposed to think. I think it is quite likely that the Saudi monarchy knew it was all US lies but needed the lies to sell it to the people. Of course the Saudi corrupt monarchy has always been in bed with US aggression and it's always been the people who expressed the real wishes of the country. This obviously became one of Osama's main motivations as his people were being treated very badly by the corrupt monarchy. And that is another stoy which could be talked about here. But we do know that the US did mercilessly murder retreating Iraqis waving white flags of surrender and then plowed the dead and dying bodies under the sand, creating the largest mass grave ever known on the face of the earth. Of course that was the endgame all along because Iraq's military might needed to be destroyed so it wouldn't and couldn't ever threaten the coming US occupation. Another subject which should be talked about is the April Glaspie green light to Iraq over their invasion of Kuwait. All these issues together help to put the piceces of the evil US puzzle together for us. Edited March 12, 2008 by UShaditComing Quote When the US stops killing them over there they will stop killing Americans over here.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 I wasn't aware that an imminent attack of Saudi Arabia was used as a justifictaion for aiding Kuwait. I assumed the defacto invasion was reason enough. No, the US only goes to war over lies....y'know, like the attack on Pearl Harbor! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
M.Dancer Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 Have you considered becoming a revisionist historian? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 ...Another subject which should be talked about is the April Glaspie green light to Iraq over their invasion of Kuwait. All these issues together help to put the piceces of the evil US puzzle together for us. Indeed....a similar "green light" has been spotted for Denmark to invade Canada. So it must be OK. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
UShaditComing Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Posted March 12, 2008 Indeed....a similar "green light" has been spotted for Denmark to invade Canada. So it must be OK. That is disruptive and off topic and only intended to cause trouble. If you wish to discuss the topic of my thread please do so or just leave it. Thanks anyway. Quote When the US stops killing them over there they will stop killing Americans over here.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 That is disruptive and off topic and only intended to cause trouble. If you wish to discuss the topic of my thread please do so or just leave it. Thanks anyway. You're welcome. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
UShaditComing Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Posted March 12, 2008 A good book to cover the subject of US lies for war and other issues about the first US war in Iraq is Ramsay Clarke's, The Fire This Time. Very easy reading for those who don't like the deep stuff and full of pictures of the horrors of the results of US use of WMD's on people. Quote When the US stops killing them over there they will stop killing Americans over here.
Who's Doing What? Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 I wasn't aware that an imminent attack of Saudi Arabia was used as a justifictaion for aiding Kuwait. I assumed the defacto invasion was reason enough. IT wasn't for the aiding Kuwait. It was to convince an Arab nation (S.A.)to allow foreign soldiers on its land. This is not a good thing in the Koran. Quote Harper differed with his party on some key policy issues; in 1995, for example, he was one of only two Reform MPs to vote in favour of federal legislation requiring owners to register their guns. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/election/bio/harper.html "You've got to remember that west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into western Canadian society." (Stephen Harper, Report Newsmagazine, January 22, 2001)
UShaditComing Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Posted March 12, 2008 IT wasn't for the aiding Kuwait. It was to convince an Arab nation (S.A.)to allow foreign soldiers on its land. This is not a good thing in the Koran. You've got it. I think? But you need to understand too that the entire war was cooked up by the US to destroy Iraq and that was because Saddam was promising not to be cooperative with his oil resources. The US must continue to manipulate the price of oil by being completely involved in the business of the oil rich countreis. In that way the cost of the oil is returned to the US in labour to develop, to ship it, to have US companies pumping it, and other involvement. And of course to have control over the supply versus the demand in order to keep prices in a range at which the US can afford to buy it. At the present with the Iraq war going poorly and the oil not fully flowing, along with lack of enogh US control, the Us is being bankrupted by the high prices. It's an exact repeat of US control over Saudi oil and also has similarities which should be recognized with Canada's oil resources. Just consider what it costs the US each day to keep the cars running and the fires burning! This is what all the lies are about and this particular one is a good example. Quote When the US stops killing them over there they will stop killing Americans over here.
Drea Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 Thing is USHiC, if the US would have just come clean with it's citizens -- "Folks they are threatening our oil supply and we will be paying $10/gallon if we don't secure the region" -- everyone would have been on board for the right reasons and hundreds of thousands would still be alive. BUT. It's always better to lie and make up some unkillable enemy like "Islam". Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
UShaditComing Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Posted March 12, 2008 Thing is USHiC, if the US would have just come clean with it's citizens -- "Folks they are threatening our oil supply and we will be paying $10/gallon if we don't secure the region" -- everyone would have been on board for the right reasons and hundreds of thousands would still be alive. BUT. It's always better to lie and make up some unkillable enemy like "Islam". Yes, I think you're right because it's easy to overlook the human toll for Americans as opposed to wearing a sweater in their livingrooms and turning the thermostat down to 65. And that also begs the question of whether it is worth it or not. My morality will never allow me to say that killing people for economic reasons is justified but I don't speak for everyone. If a majority of them think it's justified then so be it. It's just that they aren't honest enough to just say it. Quote When the US stops killing them over there they will stop killing Americans over here.
M.Dancer Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 It was all about oil... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23578542/ Sure.... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
UShaditComing Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Posted March 12, 2008 It was all about oil...http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23578542/ Sure.... As it is my intent to let this topic stray to Iraq oil I will comment on that link. It's right on the money of course. The US will continue to pour bilions into Iraq's oil resources but it will also attempt to get the last drop from domestic supplies as well as find new domestic oil. Bring the price down by increasing supply is exactly what I have said. I'm pleased that you are now starting to understand what your war is all about! And now the logical place to go is to deal with the US lies and the plain fact that the US had it coming. Quote When the US stops killing them over there they will stop killing Americans over here.
M.Dancer Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 As it is my intent to let this topic stray to Iraq oil I will comment on that link. Bring the price down by increasing supply is exactly what I have said. Shame logic and facts don't support that proposition, i wish you were right. Unfortunately the US can do very little about the price of oil because: 1) It does not export enough to flood the market in any sizable way 2) The prices are set on the open market 3) OPEC sets the number for what the production of oil will be 4) The US is not a member of OPEC On top of that, Iraqi oil production is still below what it was prior to Saddam's ouster and ceratinly far below the levels prior to the Gulf (it's about oil) war. Your proposition doesn't hold water (or oil) Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
UShaditComing Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Posted March 12, 2008 (edited) Shame logic and facts don't support that proposition, i wish you were right. Unfortunately the US can do very little about the price of oil because:1) It does not export enough to flood the market in any sizable way 2) The prices are set on the open market 3) OPEC sets the number for what the production of oil will be 4) The US is not a member of OPEC On top of that, Iraqi oil production is still below what it was prior to Saddam's ouster and ceratinly far below the levels prior to the Gulf (it's about oil) war. Your proposition doesn't hold water (or oil) Of course Iraqi production is still below previous levels and the plan is to exceed previous levels by millions of barrels a day. You're completely out of touch with reality. Of course the US doesnt' export enough to influence the price but they are now involved in influencing the price by increasing Iraqi production and by pouring billions into Canada's tarsands production. Again you are totally out of touch with reality. The US manipulated prices prior to the first war agaisnt Iraq down to $14/barrel in order to put economic strains on Iraq in an effort to convince Iraq to invade Kuwait. As well as aiding Kuwait with it's slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields. And along with causing the Kuwait monarchy to oppose it's Iraqi 'brothers' who had protected them during the Iran/Iraq war. Along with persuading Kuwait to increase it's production. Again you are out of touch with reality and so poorly informed on the issues that it's hardly worth talking to you anymore. I wouldn't but most of the other US apologists are hiding and trembling in fear of getting more lickings for lying. Edited March 12, 2008 by UShaditComing Quote When the US stops killing them over there they will stop killing Americans over here.
M.Dancer Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 Of course Iraqi production is still below previous levels and the plan is to exceed previous levels by millions of barrels a day. You're completely out of touch with reality. Of course the US doesnt' export enough to influence the price but they are now involved in influencing the price by increasing Iraqi production and by pouring billions into Canada's tarsands production. Again you are totally out of touch with reality. The US manipulated prices prior to the first war agaisnt Iraq down to $14/barrel in order to put economic strains on Iraq in an effort to convince Iraq to invade Kuwait. As well as aiding Kuwait with it's slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields. And along with causing the Kuwait monarchy to oppose it's Iraqi 'brothers' who had protected them during the Iran/Iraq war. Along with persuading Kuwait to increase it's production. Again you are out of touch with reality and so poorly informed on the issues that it's hardly worth talking to you anymore. I wouldn't but most of the other US apologists are hiding and trembling in fear of getting more lickings for lying. There is not enough tinfoil to deal with all those claims.... 1)Please provide sources to back you claim that the US manipulated the price of oil prior to the first gulf war. 2) Slant drilling, please provide credible proof they did that Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Shady Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 This is my favourite part of UShaditComing's posted reference: "We have to take on faith that the image is what the Soviets say it is," Zimmerman said. "I think that is reasonable assumption, because they would not have a motive to misrepresent it. Yes, the Soviets wouldn't lie. They'd have absolutely no motive whatsoever to undermine American foreign policy. Quote
AngusThermopyle Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 As it is my intent to let this topic stray to Iraq oil I will comment on that link. This is my favourite part. The overwhelming egotism is simply breathtaking, a thing of rare beauty in its own perverted way. Quote I yam what I yam - Popeye
sharkman Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 This is my favourite part.The overwhelming egotism is simply breathtaking, a thing of rare beauty in its own perverted way. Yes, but at the bottom of it all, what we have here is just another racist and his name says all you need to know about him. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 (edited) There's a definate problem with that article re: the Soviet commercial satellite. 1: In 1990, the Soviets didn't have a civilian space program...commercial or otherwise. 100% military. 2: There is no such satellite as a Soyuz-Karta which they claim to have take the picture. There's apparently no company by that name either. 3: The only online reference to Soyuz Karta leads back to the various articles mentioned (St Petersburg). 4: Russia's three big launch services have no mention of this company either...including RSC Energia and Starsem which runs the Soyuz program these days. ILS is the other and it handles the Proton launches. Can you provide a link to this company, please? (Soyuz-Karta) Maybe I'm just missing something... Thanks. -------------------------------------------------------- Let's go!! ---Yuri Gagarin: Vostok 1, 1961 Edited March 12, 2008 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Melanie_ Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 But we do know that the US did mercilessly murder retreating Iraqis waving white flags of surrender and then plowed the dead and dying bodies under the sand, creating the largest mass grave ever known on the face of the earth. "The largest mass grave ever known on the face of the earth?" Is this hyperbole, or do you have something to back this statement up? Quote For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela
UShaditComing Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Posted March 12, 2008 What would the denial monkeys do without denial of their evil deeds? Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | No casus belli? Invent one!Heller's curiosity had been aroused in September when she read a report of a commercial satellite - the Soyuz Karta - orbiting and taking pictures over ... www.walden3.org/No_casus_belli_Invent_one!.htm - 52k - Cached - Similar pages Lies About the Iraq Threat to Saudi Arabia in l990The TIMES bought the missing photos of Kuwait, as well as a photo of part of Saudi Arabia, from Soyuz-Karta, a Soviet commercial satellite agency that sells ... www.iraqwar.org/bush.htm - 18k - Cached - Similar pages The Gulf WarThe trail begins in St.Petersburg, Florida with two satellite pictures taken by a commercial Russian satellite company. Soyuz Karta. ... www.missionislam.com/nwo/gulfwar.htm - 57k - Cached - Similar pages KK-FORUM: No casus belli? Invent one!of a commercial satellite - the Soyuz Karta - orbiting and taking pictures over Kuwait. She wanted to see what the only independent ... www.itk.ntnu.no/ansatte/Andresen_Trond/kk-f/2003/0286.html - 12k - Cached - Similar pages Satellite Press?Soyuz. Karta. told them that "for. a. good. customer. we can even arrange a. satellite launch." But. the. agency. will. not. sell pictures ofthe Soviet ... www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/238/4832/1346.pdf - Similar pages Mainstream Media Manipulation and the Gulf WarAnother interesting footnote is that the only paper to carry the Soyuz-Karta satellite photo story regarding 'missing' Iraqi troops during the U.S. buildup ... flag.blackened.net/revolt/issues/war/gulf_media.html - 44k - Cached - Similar pages How Both Bushes Attacked IraqMaybe the Pentagon should buy its photos from Soyuz Karta, the commercial Russian satellite. Powell made points when he read earnestly from the thick ... www.new-enlightenment.com/like_son.htm - 19k - Cached - Similar pages Comment: War in Iraq | World news | The GuardianThe Pentagon claimed to have satellite photographs to prove it. ... to buy two photos at $1600 each from the Russian commercial satellite, the Soyuz Karta. ... www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/dec/05/iraq.comment - 60k - Cached - Similar pages This time I'm scared US propaganda fuelled the first Gulf war. It ...We now know from declassified documents and satellite photographs taken by a ... at $1600 each from the Russian commercial satellite, the Soyuz Karta. ... www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Iraq/ThisTimeI'mScared_Iraq.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages Alexander Cockburn: Colin Powell and the Great "Intelligence Fraud"... the Pentagon invoked satellite photos of 265000 Iraqi troops massed to invade ... at $1600 each from the Russian commercial satellite, the Soyuz Karta. ... www.counterpunch.org/cockburn02152003.html - 30k - Cached - Similar pages -------------------------- And talk to the St. Petersburg Times because they aren't American denial monkeys. ya think they made it up? And btw shady, did you even try to do your homework assignment? Quote When the US stops killing them over there they will stop killing Americans over here.
DogOnPorch Posted March 12, 2008 Report Posted March 12, 2008 I see that Google has many references to the St Petersburg article...but no independant references to 'Soyuz Karta'. I'm asking you to provide a link to the Russian company. No need to get insulting and call me a denial monkey...that's against forum rules. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Do I know what a rhetorical question is?? ---Homer Simpson Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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