What Went Wrong For Barack Obama

UShaditComing · March 6, 2008

I don't think anything has gone wrong with either Barack or Hillary. The extreme right media would like everyone to believe that something has gone wrong of course as they compare McCain's ratings with both of them. They fail to mention that if the popularity of both of them is combined as will happen when the decisoin is made soon for a Dem candidate, his/her popularity will swamp McCain about 4 to 1.

The chickens are going to come home soon and the Repubs are going to get the licking they deserve for trying to steal the country and nearly wrecking it.

Sadly this will not end the US wars because US consolidating control over Iraq's oil resources and establishing a permanent presence in the ME is absolutely essential for continuing US economic survival.

Shady · March 6, 2008

Nobody knows what was said and in what context. I am highly suspicious as to what was said merely on the fact that the Government interfered for their own self serving reasons. Nobody could convince me they did this out of a sense of duty to the American voters. If that were the case, they could be releasing all sorts of untold lies, especially during this past Bush/Cheney era.

Yes we do know what was said and in what context. We have the contents of the memo. And you don't know for a fact that the Government interfered for their own self serving reasons, you can only speculate. This is all just manufactured outrage from people who dislike Harper from the beginning.

There's only one fact. Obama's economic advisor DID meet with Canadian officals, and we have a MEMO detailing that meeting.

UShaditComing · March 6, 2008

This is Obama aligning himself with Harper and letting Harper know that he is a safe choice for Harper's gameplan. The gameplan which Harper and his rabid right team of liars have up their sleeve and can't reveal to Canadians. No matter that Obama represents the center in the US he still represents what is equivalent to the right in Canada and he also represents US interests. US interests which are completely consistent with Harper's interests.

Carinthia · March 6, 2008

Yes we do know what was said and in what context. We have the contents of the memo. And you don't know for a fact that the Government interfered for their own self serving reasons, you can only speculate. This is all just manufactured outrage from people who dislike Harper from the beginning.
There's only one fact. Obama's economic advisor DID meet with Canadian officals, and we have a MEMO detailing that meeting.

I don't believe we do know what was said. We have a memo from the Tory mouthpiece as to what HE said was said. To my knoweledge the conversation was not taped. If this conversation happened the way it says in the memo, can you give me one good reason why it was leaked to the media or what purpose this would have served? Why, if not to interfere in the election, would they have done this? If this was a well meaning and innocent disclosure why not report that Hillary also gave her assurances that nothing would happen re NAFTA, as per her "take it with a grain of salt"?

capricorn · March 6, 2008

The gameplan which Harper and his rabid right team of liars have up their sleeve and can't reveal to Canadians.

The secrecy of this game plan is so deep, so nefarious, they dare not even reveal it to their own membership. :rolleyes:

It's comforting to know that both the Democrats and the Republicans are willing to play ball with Harper.

Carinthia · March 6, 2008

It's comforting to know that both the Democrats and the Republicans are willing to play ball with Harper.

Yes, so comforting to know that they are all on the same page and play the same sleazy games. I can sleep at night now. :rolleyes:

guyser · March 6, 2008

I think you are trying to make him sound White.

No no no...dont confuse Barry White with Barry Obama. Barry sang " It's Ecstasy When You Lie Down Next To Me" . The other Barry is running for President. Not to mention the first one is dead.

And dont confuse the two when you are looking to get a little loving. Barry Whites voice and words melt women, and probably men too , but it is music to play chesterfield rugby by.

The other Barry doesnt have a record deal....yet.

UShaditComing · March 7, 2008

The secrecy of this game plan is so deep, so nefarious, they dare not even reveal it to their own membership.
It's comforting to know that both the Democrats and the Republicans are willing to play ball with Harper.

Well they don't really 'need' Canada militarily but they do need Canada for appearance sake and Harper is willing because it would be economically destructive to Harper's support if he didn't bow to US wishes. In fact the US is desperately trying to get more nations onside with the their plans at the moment in order to lend some justification to their wars. Harper is their perfect patsy because he would rather pretend that it's Canada's involvement in Afghanistan in support of the people and that gives him an excuse to not take the moral highroad along with most European countries and of course most other countries.

Which is all fine if some Canadian gungho kids want to go and play war games in another country and get themselves whacked but it's not fine if we begin to feel the repercussions at home because of our interference, in the same manner the US got it's comeuppance on 9/11. We'll see in time and let's hope we don't learn the same lesson Spain learned for their support of the US plans for world hegemony.

Let's hope that Karzai gets his wish of bringing the Taliban on board with his government and then there will be no excuse left to be there fighting. It might just happen even though the US knows it's game over if he does because they wouldn't be able to make up a good enough excuse to fool Canadians anymore.

Stick with me here, we're going to be learning a lot!

August1991 · March 7, 2008

Which is all fine if some Canadian gungho kids want to go and play war games in another country and get themselves whacked but it's not fine if we begin to feel the repercussions at home because of our interference, in the same manner the US got it's comeuppance on 9/11.

Uh, are you suggesting that the US deserved the attacks of September 2001?

UShaditComing · March 7, 2008

Uh, are you suggesting that the US deserved the attacks of September 2001?

I am definitely suggesting that the US had it coming because those attacks were revenge attacks. Most people had a hard time coming to accept that but have long since realized that it was all about revenge. Osama Bin Laden spelled it out perfectly in his message following 9/11. Why would he want to lie about it?

bush_cheney2004 · March 7, 2008

I am definitely suggesting that the US had it coming because those attacks were revenge attacks. Most people had a hard time coming to accept that but have long since realized that it was all about revenge. Osama Bin Laden spelled it out perfectly in his message following 9/11. Why would he want to lie about it?

Works for me.....Iraq and Afghanistan are also "revenge" attacks.

sharkman · March 7, 2008

That's the same kind of short sighted thinking that got us into this mess! Nobody deserves a 9/11, a cowardly attack on innocent civilians. The U.S. didn't have anything coming, even if an Islamic extremist said so. And they deserve a round of applause for what they are doing in Iraq, there's a country that is now on the rebound and will soon be a force to be reckoned with. Even the nut bar president of Iran is now trying to curry favor with Iraq, he recently gave them 1 billion dollars.

capricorn · March 7, 2008

Well they don't really 'need' Canada militarily but they do need Canada for appearance sake and Harper is willing because it would be economically destructive to Harper's support if he didn't bow to US wishes. In fact the US is desperately trying to get more nations onside with the their plans at the moment in order to lend some justification to their wars. Harper is their perfect patsy because he would rather pretend that it's Canada's involvement in Afghanistan in support of the people and that gives him an excuse to not take the moral highroad along with most European countries and of course most other countries.
Which is all fine if some Canadian gungho kids want to go and play war games in another country and get themselves whacked but it's not fine if we begin to feel the repercussions at home because of our interference, in the same manner the US got it's comeuppance on 9/11. We'll see in time and let's hope we don't learn the same lesson Spain learned for their support of the US plans for world hegemony.

Stick with me here, we're going to be learning a lot!

I think what you're trying to say here is that it is dangerous for Canada to associate itself with the US and Harper is being used as a peon by the US. That if we continue with the mission in Afghanistan we will be attacked as the US and Spain were. What is clear is that you do not subscribe to the conspiracy theory that 9/11 was an inside job. Good for you.

Let's hope that Karzai gets his wish of bringing the Taliban on board with his government and then there will be no excuse left to be there fighting. It might just happen even though the US knows it's game over if he does because they wouldn't be able to make up a good enough excuse to fool Canadians anymore.

This I cannot decipher except that somehow our presence in Afghanistan would no longer be required.

capricorn · March 7, 2008

That's the same kind of short sighted thinking that got us into this mess! Nobody deserves a 9/11, a cowardly attack on innocent civilians. The U.S. didn't have anything coming, even if an Islamic extremist said so. And they deserve a round of applause for what they are doing in Iraq, there's a country that is now on the rebound and will soon be a force to be reckoned with. Even the nut bar president of Iran is now trying to curry favor with Iraq, he recently gave them 1 billion dollars.

I totally agree with you sharkman. Iran's President recently visited Iraq. That speaks volumes.

BC_chick · March 7, 2008

Harper wishes he had the power to sway Americans on the Democratic primaries. As if any Canadian politician has that kind of power on American politics.

I agree that this whole thing is much ado about nothing. Democrats and Republicans both lean more toward the views of their respective bases during the primaries, but bring a more centrist policy to the table during the presidential election. This is nothing new.

Obama is surrounded by sound economic advisors, he is well-aware of the overall value of free-trade. In his book he touches on this very issue whereby he claims that ultimately free-trade is more beneficial to a country than none. He discusses the steelworkers and he asserts that the industry is negatively impacted with free-trade, but that ultimately it brings the price down for all steel products thereby allowing Americans more purchasing power.

WRT the NAFTA/Canada situation, here's an excerpt from his website:

“The news reports on Obama's position on NAFTA are inaccurate and in no way represent Senator Obama’s consistent position on trade. When Senator Obama says that he will forcefully act to make NAFTA a better deal for American workers, he means it. Both Canada and Mexico should know that, as president, Barack Obama will do what it takes to create and protect American jobs and strengthen the American economy -- that includes amending NAFTA to include labor and environmental standards. We are currently reaching out to the Canadian embassy to correct this inaccuracy,” said Obama spokesman Bill Burton.

Accusing him of saying something he never did, only to call him a hypocrite double-talker when he clarifies himself... is I believe what is referred to as a straw-man argument.

UShaditComing · March 7, 2008

That's the same kind of short sighted thinking that got us into this mess! Nobody deserves a 9/11, a cowardly attack on innocent civilians. The U.S. didn't have anything coming, even if an Islamic extremist said so. And they deserve a round of applause for what they are doing in Iraq, there's a country that is now on the rebound and will soon be a force to be reckoned with. Even the nut bar president of Iran is now trying to curry favor with Iraq, he recently gave them 1 billion dollars.

I didn't say 'deserved', that was somebody else's way of putting it. It's a difficult question to answer on whether or not the people who died on 9/11 'deserved' to die. So I'll ask another question and maybe that will serve to answer that question.

Did the civilians who died in the Dresden firebombing 'deserve' to die. Answering that question will answer the first.

As for the US having it coming, of course they did because of their foreign policy in the ME. Do you know what Osama Bin Laden said? Probably not so I'll tell you that he mentioned US presence on the Arabian peninsula, the first war against Iraq which killed millions of Iraqis, and the US support of the apartheid regime of the Zionists in Palestine. (Israel)

As for Iraq, you are probably uninformed about that country too so I'll begin by telling you that Iraq accepted all religions prior to the current US war and it also had women working alongside men as equals. Now it is nearly just another Iran and will soon be Iran's close ally against the US. Pay attention and you will even hear recent news of Talibani and Ahmadinejad having a little kisses and hugs love-in while the US is spurned as the occupier who is not welcome. Some nutbar!

capricorn · March 7, 2008

As if any Canadian politician has that kind of power on American politics.

Thank you BC chick. This says it all.

The other laughable premise is that a future US President would hold a grudge against the Canadian government and Canada for words spoken here during a US election campaign.

August1991 · March 7, 2008

I am definitely suggesting that the US had it coming because those attacks were revenge attacks. Most people had a hard time coming to accept that but have long since realized that it was all about revenge. Osama Bin Laden spelled it out perfectly in his message following 9/11. Why would he want to lie about it?

Revenge for what? Isn't that indulging in "blame the victim" rhetoric? Citing bin Laden in support of your argument hardly seems credible.

Did the civilians who died in the Dresden firebombing 'deserve' to die. Answering that question will answer the first.

So you equate the US with Nazi Germany?

As for the US having it coming, of course they did because of their foreign policy in the ME. Do you know what Osama Bin Laden said? Probably not so I'll tell you that he mentioned US presence on the Arabian peninsula, the first war against Iraq which killed millions of Iraqis, and the US support of the apartheid regime of the Zionists in Palestine. (Israel)

The US military presence in Saudi Arabia was in response to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

Is Israel as much an apartheid regime as Jordan or Saudi Arabia? And why don't you call it Israel? Do you deny the right of Israel to exist?

As for Iraq, you are probably uninformed about that country too so I'll begin by telling you that Iraq accepted all religions prior to the current US war and it also had women working alongside men as equals. Now it is nearly just another Iran and will soon be Iran's close ally against the US. Pay attention and you will even hear recent news of Talibani and Ahmadinejad having a little kisses and hugs love-in while the US is spurned as the occupier who is not welcome. Some nutbar!

Saddam Hussein was a murderous dictator who posed a threat in the region and to the western world.

----

The US is a democracy that has existed for over two centuries. It's a society that attracts people from around the world because it offers them the chance to live well and in freedom. The US is not an Empire or a hegemony. At most, there are many countries in the world (so-called western liberal societies) that largely share the same principles and values of the US.

By posting on this forum, you are benefitting from those exact values and principles. If bin Laden is taking revenge on the US, then he is also taking revenge on you.

In simple terms, Saudi Arabia (and the ME in general) cannot cut itself off from the outside world and limit contact with non-Muslims. Non-Muslims are going to live in the Middle East and they will spread their religion and culture and values among Muslims.

Edited March 7, 2008 by August1991

UShaditComing · March 7, 2008

I think what you're trying to say here is that it is dangerous for Canada to associate itself with the US and Harper is being used as a peon by the US. That if we continue with the mission in Afghanistan we will be attacked as the US and Spain were. What is clear is that you do not subscribe to the conspiracy theory that 9/11 was an inside job. Good for you.

No, of course it wasn't a conspiracy planned by the US. But don't for one minute fail to realize that the US used it very well to their advantage. The US needed to do Iraq and in the beginning following 9/11 they had no interest in going into Afghanistan. This is well documented. The US is no longer welcome in Saudi and it needs a country where it can establish a long term presence in order to consolidate it's interests over Iraq's oil and the ME region in general.

This I cannot decipher except that somehow our presence in Afghanistan would no longer be required.

If Karzai was able to bring the Taliban into the fold with his government, who would be left for us to pretend to be helping out there? Begin to come to the uncomfortable understanding that the Burqua is worn by women by choice and we just don't have any business interfering in their poitics. If we were really concerned about the people we would first be asking the US why they support the corrupt Saudi monarchy which chops heads off in chop-chop square in that country.

bush_cheney2004 · March 7, 2008

Revenge for what? Isn't that indulging in "blame the victim" rhetoric? Citing bin Laden in support of your argument hardly seems credible.

No..it's true...Canada deserved SARS because of the onerous head tax. Payback is a bitch!

UShaditComing · March 7, 2008

Revenge for what? Isn't that indulging in "blame the victim" rhetoric? Citing bin Laden in support of your argument hardly seems credible.

I'm saying that Bin Laden had several reasons to strike back against the US and he stated those reasons clearly. It is entirely credible and what is not credible is the US claim that Muslims want to conquer the world. Or whatever the current lie happens to be. They're jealous of our t.v. sets? We've heard all sorts of reasons haven't we.

UShaditComing · March 7, 2008

No..it's true...Canada deserved SARS because of the onerous head tax. Payback is a bitch!

Not even a sensible rebuttal but about all that you have apparently. You are right about payback being a bitch though, in a sense only, because the rewards for the US will be worth the cost once they win their war in Iraq. Does anyone 'really' think they are doing all this to rescue the Iraqi people from an evil dictator?

Your first lesson will consist of accepting the fact that the US needs over 20 million barrels of oil a day and they import over half of that. You will be expected to provide a figure for how much that costs the US per day. Calculators will be allowed.

bush_cheney2004 · March 7, 2008

Not even a sensible rebuttal but about all that you have apparently. You are right about payback being a bitch though, in a sense only, because the rewards for the US will be worth the cost once they win their war in Iraq. Does anyone 'really' think they are doing all this to rescue the Iraqi people from an evil dictator?

I am always right.

Your first lesson will consist of accepting the fact that the US needs over 20 million barrels of oil a day and they import over half of that. You will be expected to provide a figure for how much that costs the US per day. Calculators will be allowed.

Yes...right next to the 1,000,000 bpd that Canada imports in the east. Oil is good...the Americans and others invested in Canada even after your own government hosed it up (NEP).

BC_chick · March 7, 2008

Thank you BC chick. This says it all.
The other laughable premise is that a future US President would hold a grudge against the Canadian government and Canada for words spoken here during a US election campaign.

Don't get me wrong. Just because Harper didn't succeed in swaying the voters, doesn't mean he didn't try or that the leak was appropriate.

As for grudges.... Obama's not one to hold grudges because he's perfect. :rolleyes:

But other presidents... not so sure. I remember a whole beef and lumber incident when Chretien didn't play by Georgie's rules.

Edited March 7, 2008 by BC_chick

UShaditComing · March 7, 2008

The big issue is that Harper goon is now in trouble for letting it out. Who cares what it does against Obama. The important message is that Harper's gang is in bed with the pro-war Republicans and against the Dems. Most of us knew that and now it's publicly confirmed. It's the only reason why we are letting our troops get whacked in Afghanistan.