William F. Buckley Jr. - RIP

[bush_cheney2004]

William F. Buckley Jr. has passed away, no doubt sent into arrest by the present dearth of talent in the present election. I watched Buckley's "Firing Line" as a teen, marveling at the diction lesson and tortured arguments.

A precocious controversialist, William was but 8 years old when he wrote to the king of England, demanding payment of the British war debt.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...;show_article=1

[M.Dancer]

Buckley vs Chomsky

Pt. 1

Pt. 2

[scribblet]

I was just going to post about that...William F. Buckley Jr. was a brilliant gentleman, his arguments where always made with intellectual sharpness. How many writers are there of his calibre.

[eyeball]

He was a pompous ass with a real talent for interrupting people and steering conversations into dead-ends.

[bush_cheney2004]

Buckley vs Chomsky

Pt. 1

Pt. 2

Thanks for the links....prime stuff. Buckley spent some time in Europe, and had that wonderful "British/2" accent. He could express total disdain for the opposing view just in manner and inflection, without harsh words. I'm surprised he suffered Chumpsky as long as he did.

Edited February 28, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[August1991]

"Since the Second World War, we became the world's major imperialist power. And Vietnam is simply one piece of an attempt to construct a very large integrated world system." Noam Chomsky, 1969.

Chomsky is an idiot-savant unfortunately Buckley wasn't the person to take him on. It took the experience of the 1970s and eventually the collapse of the Soviet Union to convince many people that the Noam Chomskys of the world are wrong.

Buckley was a pedantic gadfly, a dilettante. His claim to fame was that he had the image and the language of American Eastern liberals. I'm not even certain that the National Review advanced American conservatives anymore than Barry Goldwater did. Jimmy Carter, the fall of the Shah and Britain's economic collapse under Jim Callaghan accomplished much more.

[HisSelf]

Buckley created a national dialogue. The man was a pillar of the right-wing community and essential to the American political dialectic. I did not agree with Buckley's essential premise but the man created a forum in which it could be debated. This is quinitissential American democracy. Buckley was a pillar of American democracy.

There are no flies on Buckley as far as I am concerned. And I don't think there is a single time that I ever agreed with a single one of his ideas. I was informed by some of them though. OK, I'm still undecided...

"I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to an opinion..."

Something like that, anyways....

Put up statues to Buckley. The man had balls.

[UShaditComing]

Apparently Buckley didn't want to live anymore and some say it's because he was incapable of doing what he always did physically. He died at his desk writing and that's what he always wanted to do so I'm wondering if the reason he didn't want to continue could have been that everything he believed in was coming back to bite him. He had distanced himself from the Bush regime and he condemned Bush's war, or at least Bush's methods. A smart man such as Buckley surely must have started to realize that his ideals were beginning to destroy his country financially as the USD falls drastically compared to the Euro, some countries are changing to selling oil in Euros over the USD, oil price is skyrocketing due to demand and the simple fact that the US is now a have-not country, and conservatism is simply failing. He certainly did show signs in his maturity that his politics were changing and I think it was all to much for him to start to understand what we Canadians all understand at least to some degree. Socially respoinsible capitalism works fine but the US style of extremist greedy capitalism eventually will cause the people who are left out to rise up as they now appear to be doing with the Obama movement and the change the people will demand in November.

That, I believe, is what killed Buckley.

[eyeball]

His conscience? That's really got to hurt.

[UShaditComing]

Not just his conscience and that doesn't play a big role with extreme righties anyway. His whole way of life and everything he believed in was and is coming back to bite him. Europe and the European way is succeeding and America is failing and needs to be rescued soon by politics of a totally different mindset. Will Hutton's, 'A dEclaration of Interdependence' is a good book for everyone who wants to start to understand what's wrong with that country.

[M.Dancer]

I eagerly await an explantion of the differences between European Capitalism, extremist greedy capitalism and Socially respoinsible(sic) capitalism.

10 Euros says he doesn't know what capitalism is.

[eyeball]

Why don't you tell us what these are then.

[UShaditComing]

I eagerly await an explantion of the differences between European Capitalism, extremist greedy capitalism and Socially respoinsible(sic) capitalism.

10 Euros says he doesn't know what capitalism is.

Who doesn't know what capitalism is? Me or Hutton? Where to begin? A read of Hutton's book with be a good starting point. But first of all you appear to think that Canadian capitalism is not socially responsible and so you wouldn't yet recognise that European capitalism is also socially responsible. Woud you be hinting that everything to the left of US extreme right rabid capitalism is just socialism? That would be consistent with the US mindset and the Harper mindset. You know, the people who don't believe in global warming and don't believe in environmental concerns but have to lie and pretend that they do because 3/4's of the country does now.

[M.Dancer]

Who doesn't know what capitalism is? Me or Hutton? Where to begin? A read of Hutton's book with be a good starting point. But first of all you appear to think that Canadian capitalism is not socially responsible and so you wouldn't yet recognise that European capitalism is also socially responsible. Woud you be hinting that everything to the left of US extreme right rabid capitalism is just socialism? That would be consistent with the US mindset and the Harper mindset. You know, the people who don't believe in global warming and don't believe in environmental concerns but have to lie and pretend that they do because 3/4's of the country does now.

You answered too soon....I would have won 10 Euros had anyone taken up the bet.

But try again and explain what the differences are between canadian and american capitalism.

[UShaditComing]

You answered too soon....I would have won 10 Euros had anyone taken up the bet.

But try again and explain what the differences are between canadian and american capitalism.

I'm not here to educate others but we will dance again and again on this forum and you will learn over time what you could learn by reading Hutton's book. The title says a lot to begin with because it says right out from the betginning that the US needs to be interdependent with the rest of the world. You may also want to start to consider the differences in the way corporations are handled in Europe as compared to America where increasing profits completely trump quality and everything else. Top executives in America are paid outrageously high salaries and stock options as compared to Europe where the end product is still important. But thank you for wanting to know more.

I could also just direct you to dictionary.com for an answer to your question but I know you don't want to know the answer nearly as much as you want a fight.

We'll dance again soon!

[M.Dancer]

I'm not here to educate others ....

And you are doing a smashing job....of showing you really don't know what you are talking about.

Come again.

[UShaditComing]

duplicate post

Edited March 7, 2008 by UShaditComing

[UShaditComing]

And you are doing a smashing job....of showing you really don't know what you are talking about.

Come again.

Well thank you for the insult but what do you want to know specifically? If you want a dictionary definition of 'capitalism' then say so and I will get one for you and then explain what it means.

[M.Dancer]

Well thank you for the insult but what do you want to know specifically? If you want a dictionary definition of 'capitalism' then say so and I will get one for you and then explain what it means.

I want to see if you can distinguish between the supposed differences you claim exist, between american, canadian and european capitalism.

[DrGreenthumb]

Buckley was at least true to his conservative belief that the state should not be given too much power. He was very against drug prohibition, especially cannabis prohibition. It's too bad that the current crop of conservatives are the biggest proponents of the nanny state that Canada has ever had. Once upon a time, long long ago it was the consewrvatives who we libertarians would turn to to protect our civil liberties. It is really amazing to me that I now must go to the opposite end of the political spectrum, the NDP, to protect the rights of citizens from the over reaching arm of the government

[UShaditComing]

Buckley was at least true to his conservative belief that the state should not be given too much power. He was very against drug prohibition, especially cannabis prohibition. It's too bad that the current crop of conservatives are the biggest proponents of the nanny state that Canada has ever had. Once upon a time, long long ago it was the consewrvatives who we libertarians would turn to to protect our civil liberties. It is really amazing to me that I now must go to the opposite end of the political spectrum, the NDP, to protect the rights of citizens from the over reaching arm of the government

Are you one of the libertarians who support no taxation at all? Or do you support a flat tax? I like to hear about libertarian views because some have some very novel ideas.

[DrGreenthumb]

Are you one of the libertarians who support no taxation at all? Or do you support a flat tax? I like to hear about libertarian views because some have some very novel ideas.

I support a flat tax any time money changes hands, on any transaction. I also support the idea of income tax, on a scale that taxes the wealthy at a higher rate than the poor. Those who have benefited most from society and have the most to give must be encouraged by law to give back to the society that provided them with their wealth. The government must be able to pay for infrastructure.

I do not believe in giving money to the poor in the form of welfare. I would however support providing a minumum wage job, even if its make work, paying cash daily for only the ammount of hours worked. I would support government owned rooming houses that would provide the very basic needs of those without the resources to look after themselves. The government could buy an few highrises in each city and call it the poor-house for all I care. Provide security to make sure it is safe. A community kitchen, not unlike a hospital or sschool cafeteria that would make sure anyone who was hungry could get a decent hot meal. In the long run it would be far cheaper than the cash handout system they use now. No Cash handouts, no benefits for squeezing out puppies. People should be forced to learn that if they can't afford to look after any more children then don't have them. If you cannot provide for your children you don't deserve them. There are many families who can afford kids but medically aren't capable of producing them.

I definitely believe that the government has no business telling people what foods or medicines we are allowed to use. I think that as long as you can pay for whatever drug you want without having me pay for it then that is your business. If you can get a job that pays you enough to live plus buy alcohol and get drunk every friday, go ahead, but if you find yourself destitute don't expect me to buy you a bottle of whiskey in the form of a welfare check.

I should not be forced to use pharmaceuticals when Cannabis works as well or better and I can grow it for free.

If I want to eat french fries every nite till I have a heart attack well that is my business too.

I should be free to decide wether quality of life or quantity of life is more important to me. The government's only responsibility should be to make sure that adequate health information be made available and it should end there. In a free country a person must at least have autonomy over their own body. This is the most basic freedom of all.

[UShaditComing]

I support a flat tax any time money changes hands, on any transaction. I also support the idea of income tax, on a scale that taxes the wealthy at a higher rate than the poor. Those who have benefited most from society and have the most to give must be encouraged by law to give back to the society that provided them with their wealth. The government must be able to pay for infrastructure.

I do not believe in giving money to the poor in the form of welfare. I would however support providing a minumum wage job, even if its make work, paying cash daily for only the ammount of hours worked. I would support government owned rooming houses that would provide the very basic needs of those without the resources to look after themselves. The government could buy an few highrises in each city and call it the poor-house for all I care. Provide security to make sure it is safe. A community kitchen, not unlike a hospital or sschool cafeteria that would make sure anyone who was hungry could get a decent hot meal. In the long run it would be far cheaper than the cash handout system they use now. No Cash handouts, no benefits for squeezing out puppies. People should be forced to learn that if they can't afford to look after any more children then don't have them. If you cannot provide for your children you don't deserve them. There are many families who can afford kids but medically aren't capable of producing them.

I definitely believe that the government has no business telling people what foods or medicines we are allowed to use. I think that as long as you can pay for whatever drug you want without having me pay for it then that is your business. If you can get a job that pays you enough to live plus buy alcohol and get drunk every friday, go ahead, but if you find yourself destitute don't expect me to buy you a bottle of whiskey in the form of a welfare check.

I should not be forced to use pharmaceuticals when Cannabis works as well or better and I can grow it for free.

If I want to eat french fries every nite till I have a heart attack well that is my business too.

I should be free to decide wether quality of life or quantity of life is more important to me. The government's only responsibility should be to make sure that adequate health information be made available and it should end there. In a free country a person must at least have autonomy over their own body. This is the most basic freedom of all.

Ahhhhh yes, that's what I was hoping to hear! I bit of extreme leftist idelology, a bit of extreme right ideology, a hint of an appreciation for Nazi reform policies, and a lot of immaturity. You're going to make a good conservative when you learn to conceal your true feelings. The squeezing out 'puppies' think really put it over the top for me. But let me briefly comment on you fixation to french fries.

I would say that you should by all means enjoy your fries if it was a sure thing that you would die of the heart attack. Sadly, it is not guaranteed and it's likely they will save you and then you will become a burden on the system. We must look after all of our citizens no matter how irresponsible they have been because we don't let people die in the streets or go without adequate healthcare as they do in the land of the gun to our south.

If you choose to respond to that will you please tell me how you intend to "forced to learn'' and how you are going to stop people from having babies. (puppies?) Forced sterilization prehaps?

Sorry I can't continue right now because all of a sudden you have put a very bad taste in my mouth.

[M.Dancer]

Godwin's law

[AngusThermopyle]

Yay! Someone else who doesn't have a clue what the Nazi's and Hitler actually were. I love it when these guys show up with their feeble attempts to make comparisons to the Nazi's.