The Bush Administration and Kosovo

[kuzadd]

Next time those murderous extremist terrorist attack the U.S., don't complain.

Seems what you are saying the 'WAR on Terrorism' is all smoke and mirrors.

Playing games at the expense of your allies, are we?

you finally get it leafless!

The war on terror is all smoke and mirrors!

The US recognizesd Kosovo, cause it serves their interests to do so.

They even got their favourite gun runnning/drug dealing terrorist KLA in as the government, how beautiful is that for the US, it is the government of their dreams corrupt and easy to manipulate, get it?!

[Leafless]

you finally get it leafless!

The war on terror is all smoke and mirrors!

I am only responding to BC's post and his views and not the U.S. government.

The US recognizesd Kosovo, cause it serves their interests to do so.

Every country has its personal interest and the U.S. is no different.

[Leafless]

Hey leafless gives on a pretty clear picture of how American government operates, me first and don't even consider you.

Again I am only responding to the views of BC and NOT the U.S. government.

My biggest concern in all of this is that the U.S. by recognizing the illegal separation from Serbia is promoting the idea that 'self determination' pays off.

This is a bad example to be giving other groups in the world who could be thinking of doing likewise.

This is the recipe for possible wide scale blood shed.

Edited February 24, 2008 by Leafless

[margrace]

Several groups in Canada pushing seperation, maybe this is in the US interest as well.

[Leafless]

Several groups in Canada pushing seperation, maybe this is in the US interest as well.

The break up of Canada could very well be on the top of the list relating to U.S. interest.

Can you blame them??

[kuzadd]

I am only responding to BC's post and his views and not the U.S. government.

I am aware of that, and it is all smoke and mirrors.

Every country has its personal interest and the U.S. is no different.

I am aware of that also.

[kuzadd]

This is a bad example to be giving other groups in the world who could be thinking of doing likewise.

This is the recipe for possible wide scale blood shed.

Do you think the US government has not thought of that already?

still the benefits outweighed the costs.

[bush_cheney2004]

... My biggest concern in all of this is that the U.S. by recognizing the illegal separation from Serbia is promoting the idea that 'self determination' pays off.

This is a bad example to be giving other groups in the world who could be thinking of doing likewise.

This is the recipe for possible wide scale blood shed.

One member insists that the US is irrelevant, so what does it matter if recognition is forthcoming from Washington?

Hey, how do you think the USA was founded? Not everybody wants to wait for permission from the "throne" to be a sovereign state. I suppose this sentiment is completely foreign to the Canadian experience....if armed conflict be the only recourse, then armed conflict it shall be. I like Patrick Henry's version:

....Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation -- the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motives for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies?

No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us; they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer on the subject? Nothing.

We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves longer.

Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament.

Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne. In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope.

If we wish to be free -- if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending -- if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained, we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of Hosts is all that is left us!

They tell us, sir, that we are weak -- unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance, by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?

Sir, we are not weak, if we make a proper use of the means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us.

The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable -- and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come!

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, "Peace! Peace!" -- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!

- Patrick Henry - March 23, 1775

[kuzadd]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../wserbia223.xml

Serbian settlers plan partition of Kosovo

Kosovo, the world's newest state, is facing a partition of its territory only a week after it unilaterally declared independence from Serbia.

I notice the use of the word 'serbian settlers' great bs phrase!

did they just move there?

lol!

[kuzadd]

or the ultimate in hypocrisy from the US!

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3508909,00.html

US warns Russia not to encourage Georgian separatists

The United States warned Russia on Tuesday not to encourage separatists in the Republic of Georgia by comparing their cause to Kosovo's.

never mind that's what we did , don't you do it!

[bush_cheney2004]

Serbian settlers plan partition of Kosovo

Kosovo, the world's newest state, is facing a partition of its territory only a week after it unilaterally declared independence from Serbia....

Cool....aren't these the same folks who gave us World War I ?

[kuzadd]

Cool....aren't these the same folks who gave us World War I ?

why yes they are, history repeating itself?

[bush_cheney2004]

or the ultimate in hypocrisy from the US!

"Hypocrisy" is weak ammunition for this argument. Russia won't do dick about this, same as it did back in 1999.

Edited February 24, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Leafless]

Hey, how do you think the USA was founded? Not everybody wants to wait for permission from the "throne" to be a sovereign state.

Holding out the 'carrot stick' to entice groups to break away from a legal entity with the end result causing chaos and death could be interpreted as an act of terrorism in itself.

Just consider yourselves very lucky breaking away from Britain who just happened to be on the other side of the ocean.

Brave boys you were!

[bush_cheney2004]

Holding out the 'carrot stick' to entice groups to break away from a legal entity with the end result causing chaos and death could be interpreted as an act of terrorism in itself.

Just consider yourselves very lucky breaking away from Britain who just happened to be on the other side of the ocean.

Brave boys you were!

They were not "on the other side of the ocean"....see History of Canada.

The United States of America has recognized the Republic of Kosovo, along with SIXTEEN other nations. If you don't like that, tough noogies.

PM Chretien bombed Serbia in 1999.....was that "terrorism" too? Serbia says it was a crime. Shame, shame, shame......

[Leafless]

They were not "on the other side of the ocean"....see History of Canada.

Britain is on the other side of the ocean.

Your little rebellion just happened to get lucky with inadequate British forces forces to put you in your place.

The United States of America has recognized the Republic of Kosovo, along with SIXTEEN other nations. If you don't like that, tough noogies.

Mass mental retardation is nothing to boast about.

PM Chretien bombed Serbia in 1999.....was that "terrorism" too? Serbia says it was a crime. Shame, shame, shame......

This was a NATO endeavor to help stop the violence.

Perhaps NATO to-day is as corrupt as what you say American interest are.

[bush_cheney2004]

Britain is on the other side of the ocean.

Your little rebellion just happened to get lucky with inadequate British forces forces to put you in your place.

And they are even more inadequate today. The United States of America is arguably the most successful "little rebellion" in modern history. As with Kosovo....no balls...no blue chips.

How is that Quebec thing going?

Mass mental retardation is nothing to boast about.

No boast...just fact. Deal with it.

This was a NATO endeavor to help stop the violence.

Perhaps NATO to-day is as corrupt as what you say American interest are.

Violence to stop violence.....music to American foreign policy ears. Does anybody even care if Canada recognizes Kosovo, besides the Serbs?

[Leafless]

And they are even more inadequate today. The United States of America is arguably the most successful "little rebellion" in modern history.

With the help of France, Spain and Holland.

Shame!

How is that Quebec thing going?

Very little progress at beating down minority racism and discrimination, as the White English speaking majority as usual, refuses to take a more direct political stand on the issue despite pleas to MP's.

No boast...just fact. Deal with it.

The sixteen countries might have to deal with it.

But that's okay, come crying to Canada for support.

Violence to stop violence.....music to American foreign policy ears. Does anybody even care if Canada recognizes Kosovo, besides the Serbs?

Quebec does.

[bush_cheney2004]

Very little progress at beating down minority racism and discrimination, as the White English speaking majority as usual, refuses to take a more direct political stand on the issue despite pleas to MP's.

Viva la Revolucion !!

The sixteen countries might have to deal with it.

But that's okay, come crying to Canada for support.

I think you have it backwards....Canada went crying to them for support (Afghanistan)

Quebec does.

An interesting domestic pickle, but irrelevant to the new Republic of Kosovo.

[capricorn]

This is interesting. Eric Margolis thinks Bush and the US are on the money with recognizing the independence of Kosovo. The article is chock full of historical information.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/...4872343-sun.php

IMO, I find it worrisome that sections of countries can unilaterally declare independence. Here at home, I'm certain many Quebecers want just that. I expect that is why the feds are treading lightly on this issue. Can't blame them.

[moderateamericain]

I would watch these situations candidly. If you recall this region of the world has caused not 1 but 2 world wars in the passed 100 years. Granted we did not get into the 2nd war until the bombing at pearl harbor. The balkans and its associated areas are a powder keg just waiting to happen. God forbid it ever be so, but if a religious war ever did occur. Kosovo/Serbia would be ground zero. Maybe what these people need is seperation from eachother. I dont see the tention slowing down anytime in the next 1000 years.

[bush_cheney2004]

IMO, I find it worrisome that sections of countries can unilaterally declare independence. Here at home, I'm certain many Quebecers want just that. I expect that is why the feds are treading lightly on this issue. Can't blame them.

Quebec already has a legal mechanism to become an idependent, sovereign state (Clarity Act). Are the "feds" treading lightly because such a process would not be honoured?

Margolis (whose mother was born in Albania) suffers from selective amnesia when he writes this:

It certainly is a tonic seeing people abroad joyously waving American flags and blessing the U.S. This is what my America used to be about.

Edited February 24, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

I dont see the tention slowing down anytime in the next 1000 years.

This is music to the ears of military-industrial-complex's everywhere.

[capricorn]

Quebec already has a legal mechanism to become an idependent, sovereign state (Clarity Act). Are the "feds" treading lightly because such a process would not be honoured?

I wasn't clear. I should have added many separatists in Quebec would want to by-pass a referendum in favour of a unilateral declaration of independence. They have already lost 2 separation referenda and are losing patience.

I think the feds are hesitant because the Kosovo declaration did not follow a referendum. Why give the Quebec separatists a bone to pick on. In the grand scheme, it won't make much difference whether Canada drags its heals on approving or disapproving of the move by Kosovo.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I think the feds are hesitant because the Kosovo declaration did not follow a referendum. Why give the Quebec separatists a bone to pick on. In the grand scheme, it won't make much difference whether Canada drags its heals on approving or disapproving of the move by Kosovo.

No, it doesn't make any difference at all. The world is not going to remain frozen in time on such matters just because Canada and Quebec have not resolved domestic issues. Kosovo didn't even need a sponsorship scandal.