How can we all sleep at night knowing...

[Moonlight Graham]

How can we all sleep at night knowing that many tens of thousands of people are dying every day due to preventable causes?

The fact that you are reading this now proves you live in an industrialized country. We, as citizens of 1st world countries have been a dismal failure to the rest of our brothers and sisters of the human race. I read this in a doctors office a few years ago:

"Did you know that today 27,000 children will die of preventable diseases such as diarrhea, measles, and malnutrition? That's the same as if an airplane full of children crashed every 16 minutes, killing everyone onboard."

- Aug. 2005 edition of 'Warcry', official magazine of the Salvation Army

This statistic disgusts me. So much so i ripped the page out of the magazine & brought it home with me. These numbers have only increased over the past few years. Where is our morality in all this? This holiday season we are busy buying Plasma TV's and Guitar Hero 3 for others, and for ourselves the rest of the year when at the same time people in 3rd world countries are dying at an alarming rate (and many living pretty pathetically in our own cities as well). Why don't we care much about people if they happen to live outside the artificial geographic borders we have constructed?

And please don't give me the "aid to 3rd world countries gets eaten up by corrupt dictators" B.S. excuse. If we wanted to, we could give the aid directly to most people who need it. I'm not very religious, but most of us in North America are Christian, and yet we are complete hypocrites in the teachings of Jesus. If he we alive today i'm sure he wouldn't be buying new rims for his truck or a Nintendo Wii while others are dying of disease & malnutrition not far away.

This holiday season enjoy that warm fuzzy feeling when you give $50 to the local homeless shelter or Unicef, and enjoy the splendor afterwards when you go home to watch "Its a Wonderul Life" with your family on your 50" Plasma TV while an ocean away babies are drinking black water laced with human feces.

The Industrial Revolution has given us the wealth and the technology to do something to stop this. Poverty is the #1 problem facing humanity today, not empty paranoid nuclear threats, because people are ACTUALLY dying. I believe we have absolutely no excuse for this B.S. to continue. It is fundamentally unethical. It is Nazi Germany x 1000.

I want to know:

- do you care?

- If not, why not?

- If you do care, what heck are you going to do about it?

Edited December 21, 2007 by Moonlight Graham

[Borg]

Actually, why do you not address this question to the countries it happens in?

They are ancient countries. Usually countries that have been living with the advantages of climate and possibly even year round food availablility.

They themselves do not seem to care as evidenced by the massive man made starvation in Etheopia. Or the destruction of a viable agricultural system by Mugabe. Or the civil war in Sudan. Or the removal of peoples hands by machete on the gold coast.

I think instead of being disgusted by this you need to ask yourself the following question:

If these countries have had advantages for years - why do they still not value life as we in the west do?

So, I sleep very well at night knowing that death and destruction continue on around me - as the people you seem so dearly wish to help are not interested in much more than power and money.

I am here - as are many others because our forefathers and mothers realized there was a better place - one simply had to go out and MAKE it!

Thank heavens they did.

Do not blame the person who lives in apparent health, wealth and happiness.

Blame the person who willingly destroys his own people for a bar of gold.

You only have to look into the heart of the vast majority of governments in Africa to see this - mostly crooked and corrupt with NO value of life. Other than their own of course. Or India and Pakistan or China. Countries that place more value on their nuclear weapons program, space program or modern army, navy or air force than they do on health, food and infrastructure for their people.

Now, perhap you like to get out and visit one or two of these countries. You might then understand.

As I am most familiar with Africa I will use that continent as an example.

As for your "aide" comment. Powdered milk and eggs plus wheat - delivered to Etheopia many years ago still sits on a ramp on a small airport - still guarded by soldiers and slowly being sold to those who actually have something to offer - sex, money, whatever .....

Aide gets to Africa in the billions every year. Most of it does not get to where it needs to be - at least in my opinion. To ensure it does would take guns and soldiers - aide does not get to the right places unless peacde exists.

You have to MAKE peace before it can be kept. You do not seem to realize this.

Nazi Germany x 1000?

No, it is worse. Be that as it may you cannot help a country that does not want to be helped. Unless of course you are prepared to go to war.

So, are you prepared to kill more people - on both sides?

Are you prepared to pick up the rifle or the weapon and start killing?

You have all the advantages becaue YOUR father and mother were / are here - YOU take advantage of it - or waste it as you see fit.

I will leave you with this question to ponder: Most of the problem countries live between the tropics or near the equator. Ever wonder why the people who live north or south of the Tropic lines never seem to be those who are starving?

Your question was honourable, but you reasoning is oh so very flawed. Making me realize you are very inexpeienced in ways of the world.

Merry Christmas,

Borg

[Michael Hardner]

Moonlight....

Do not despair.

Do you realize the huge progress that has been made in this area ? Do some research and you will feel more optimistic.

[M.Dancer]

People who rip pages out of magazines in doctor offices drive me bonkers. They disturb my otherwise peaceful sleep.

[White Doors]

People who rip pages out of magazines in doctor offices drive me bonkers. They disturb my otherwise peaceful sleep.

it's a very selfish act to do that.

think of all of the other people that could have seen that ad and been motivated to action.

I think the only socially accepted thing to do would be to go put that page back in the magazine a la Tony Soprano.

[White Doors]

And if you really want to help impoverished people, encourage globalization.

Watch the WTO talks closely and hope they all agree to reduce tariffs.

[Guest American Woman]

First and foremost, MG, in order to be able to sleep at night, you have to know you are doing all you can do. You really can't lose sleep over what others aren't doing since you have no control over that. So you can ask yourself the question that you asked of us: what are you going to do about it?

Besides doing all we can ourselves, I think it's important to raise our kids with a caring/giving heart so they too will do all that they can do-- and the cycle will continue with them and their kids. One thing my kids and I do at Christmas-- when they got old enough, we decided rather than spend money on all the little stocking stuffers that I get just because I feel I have to fill their stockings (and that stuff adds up!), I would instead put a catalog from a charitable organization in their stocking that gives them the opportunity to buy a gift for a child/family in a third world nation-- a gift of a goat, chickens, etc., or school supplies, or fruit trees, or immunizations, or a year of schooling for a child, musical instruments, and the list goes on and on. My kids choose something meaningful to them, and that makes it personal to them as it makes them think of others.

I think we are getting more caring and giving as we are becoming a smaller world through air travel, the internet, etc. because I think our awareness is greater. So that's something to feel good about.

I do agree with some of the things Borg said, even though they aren't exactly comforting. It's true that lot of aid doesn't get through because of uncaring dictators/leaders. I think he's right in saying the only way we could immediately change that is through war, where too many people on both sides would die or be severely wounded for life. So I don't see that as an answer.

He's also right when he says our ancestors came here to make a better life for themselves and future generations, so we should appreciate that and enjoy the benefits so it wasn't done in vain, especially since I'm sure most of them suffered some hardships in order to make the move. So it's really not right not to appreciate what we have, and in being thankful and appreciative for all that we have, we find some peace.

Remember too, that being born in our rich nations doesn't necessarily guarentee happiness. Look at the suicide rate of our young people, the drug abuse (including prescription drugs), etc. And as you pointed out, we have plenty of homeless, starving people in our countries; people dying for lack of healthcare in the U.S.

A comment about those 50" plasma tvs, et al. If people didn't buy anything, people wouldn't have jobs. If people didn't have jobs, no one would have money to give. If we didn't spend money on entertainment, no one in the entertainment business would have work. So I don't think we should feel guilty about what we have if we are also doing what we can to help.

So really, it's a matter of each and every one of us doing the best we can. And there are a lot of people doing a lot of good. Travel to third world nations verifies that. There are a lot of caring people in the world. There are also a lot of people who don't care; who don't do anything. That's always going to be the case, I'm afraid, so we have to accept that because there's nothing we can do about it.

One last thing. You say we could give to the people directly ourselves. How do you propose we do that? I know of no way that that would be possible.

[jazzer]

Remember too, that being born in our rich nations doesn't necessarily guarentee happiness.

Or healthcare. Isn't there about 40 million of your folks not yet covered?

[AngusThermopyle]

I sleep quite well knowing these things, now days anyway.

I know what you mean MG. I did a total of six tours. Somalia, Yugoslavia, Rwanda and three glorious trips down to Haiti. Pretty much some of the most destitute countries in the world ( Yugo wasn't at first but did become so). The problem is as stated previously though, not so much from indifference in the West as the cruelty of man towards his fellow man. We do what we can to assist but you can not change situations so easily or quickly.

It took quite a while for me to be able to put those memories into perspective and find solace in that perspective. Part of it was realizing how many of those lives I had actually made a difference in (except Rwanda, that god forsaken piece of sh*t that is the U.N. made sure we didn't help anyone).

For instance Somalia. If we had not been there a lot of food and supplies would never have made it to the Somali's. Not to mention stepping in and preventing the wholesale slaughter of the non affiliated population when they tried to gain access to the supplies.

So, as you can see we do our best to change situations for the better. We just can't do everything at the same time. Believe it or not one excellent way to contribute is to join the Millitary. Lately all the focus has been on the war in Afghanistan. It's not always that way though. The Forces deploy to many places to assist and aid. One must be aware of the realities though, in order to help and aid it is quite often neccesary to bear arms and be willing to use them.

The world is changing and even though things may look bad they mostly are vastly better than in the past.

[Guest American Woman]

Sounds as if you've done a lot, AT. You must feel really good about it. I commend you.

Believe it or not one excellent way to contribute is to join the Millitary.

Another way to contribute, without making a lengthy committment, it through church missions. This is one of the reasons it irritates me when people say we should get rid of religion. Churches organize a lot of missions, giving people the opportunity to donate their time and services when they wouldn't have any other way of doing it. Also, sponsoring a child is another excellent way to help. Usually the community benefits from such sponsorships too, getting needed wells, hospitals, schools, etc.

Or healthcare. Isn't there about 40 million of your folks not yet covered?

That's correct. So there are people dying from treatable ailments in the U.S. too, for lack of treatment.

Countries that place more value on their nuclear weapons program, space program or modern army, navy or air force than they do on health, food and infrastructure for their people.

Ironically, that actually describes the United States.

[margrace]

Good posts, there are two sayings that I like and try to follow. One is Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me and the second paraphrased is there is only one beginning for change and it starts with me.

NO good telling other people what to do it one does not do it themselves. There have been some great things on the news later. A small School in Uptergrove decided to give something for every person in Orillia. It turns out that they gave 150 or more items each. This will keep the Salvation Army operational for three months.

We try to look after our people and keep dying people in their homes. I sent out about 40 prechristmas letters asking for help to keep our volunteers going. So far I have recieved answers to about 6 of them and I have nearly $2,000 dollars. People in our area are so caring, makes me proud to be part of it.

[capricorn]

We try to look after our people and keep dying people in their homes. I sent out about 40 prechristmas letters asking for help to keep our volunteers going. So far I have recieved answers to about 6 of them and I have nearly $2,000 dollars. People in our area are so caring, makes me proud to be part of it.

A bouquet goes out to you and your community margrace. People like you make a difference.

Thanks to AW for the good ideas she gave me.

Angus, I am grateful for your sacrifices. Thank you.

To all who posted here, Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year.

capricorn

[leonardcohen]

A bouquet goes out to you and your community margrace. People like you make a difference.

Thanks to AW for the good ideas she gave me.

Angus, I am grateful for your sacrifices. Thank you.

To all who posted here, Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year.

capricorn

Do what can where you live, I just volunteered

at a local food bank,it's a small thing but it is true,

Charity DOES began at Home, and it has an added

benefit of keeping you humble.

[margrace]

Do what can where you live, I just volunteered

at a local food bank,it's a small thing but it is true,

Charity DOES began at Home, and it has an added

benefit of keeping you humble.

Yes sir and I keep records on my stint at the food bank, there are times I come home trying not to cry at the injustices of the world. The odd time I would like to give someone a boot. Usually a young person perfectly capable of working. But the good thing is that while he/she might get food once or twice they will soon run into our food police, better prove you need this.

Edited December 22, 2007 by margrace

[Moonlight Graham]

Not a wise thing by me to make a passionate thread during the holidays when i'd be too busy to respond until now. My apologies.

Borg, i wouldn't say i'm inexperienced in the ways of the world. Though i will certainly admit i am not an expert on African politics, and am a bit inexperienced in that regard, though am learning all the time. I agree that corrupt governments are a large problem in many of Africa's impoverished nations. We have given hundreds of billions of $$$ in aid to African countries, and many times it is used to buy arms/fund wars, kept by the greedy officials, or simply invested poorly.

There definately needs to be reform in the way aid is delivered and made sure it is appropriated in the proper way. I don't think war is necessary in many cases. I'd imagine some corrupt & greedy gov'ts can be bought off, on the condition that aid is delivered properly (though i know its not always quite as simple as that). Instead of spending 100's of billions of dollars on a military operation, it would be much cheaper & much less bloody to promise the corrupt gov'ts money in exhange for their cooperation in aid. In cases such as Rwanda and Sudan and now Chad, military intervention should have occured, but of course powerful nations such as the U.S. don't have much of a history (if any) of helping other countries militarily on a moral basis if it doesn't directly benefit them (security, oil etc.)

I don't have an answer to the question you left me with, though i have tried to find it. Please enlighten me.

White Doors said:

"it's a very selfish act to do that.

think of all of the other people that could have seen that ad and been motivated to action.

I think the only socially accepted thing to do would be to go put that page back in the magazine a la Tony Soprano."

I don't think it was selfish. In the end, all i wanted to do was help people. The quote i tore from the magazine has been plastered permenantly on my myspace page for 2 years now, in signatures on some message boards i frequent, and shown by me in other ways such as to friends & in this very thread. More people have certainly seen that quote than would have if it had been kept in that office a few more weeks & then thrown away when the next issue came in. However, if i could do it over again i would have simply written down the quote, but i was pressed for time originally.

American Woman said:

"First and foremost, MG, in order to be able to sleep at night, you have to know you are doing all you can do. You really can't lose sleep over what others aren't doing since you have no control over that. So you can ask yourself the question that you asked of us: what are you going to do about it?"

I agree. At times it becomes depressing & overwhelming knowing all the suffering & strife that occurs in this world, but i'm proud to say i do my fair part to make the world a better place, though i can always do better. I educate myself & try to keep up with current events as best i can (newspapers etc.). I write members of my government telling them what i think, especially in times leading up to gov't budgets, G8 meetings etc. I am an active member of the Make Poverty History campaign here in Canada, and proudly where my white bracelet to inform others of the cause. I also bug my friends and family on issues i believe they should be aware of. I've also donated to charities and some local shelters some money & goods that i can spare. Trips to Africa or other impoverished countries would be an amazing experience & i'll consider it.

To the other posters, thanks for your input, some great posts here.

[Borg]

[snip]I don't have an answer to the question you left me with, though i have tried to find it. Please enlighten me.

I wish I could.

At present the bullet seems to be the only answer.

Not what I want - but until life has a value (there, not here) - and tribe over flag goes away - things will not change.

It is just that simple - unfortunately people who do not live it will never get it.

One cannot transfer their values to another culture by "wishing it".

Borg

[Melanie_]

The holidays are approaching, so let's bump this thread. This is something I struggle with every year, particularly because my husband is from a developing country. We always give something at Christmas time, but I certainly recognize that I spend excessively on my children and grandchild (soon to be grandchildren - this new baby isn't even born yet and I'm busy buying stuff!). How do we reconcile our "affluenza" in the West?

[bush_cheney2004]

.... How do we reconcile our "affluenza" in the West?

.....move to Haiti.

[Melanie_]

.....move to Haiti.

D'oh! Of course! How silly of me! Thanks, B_C, for such enlightening advice!

[bush_cheney2004]

D'oh! Of course! How silly of me! Thanks, B_C, for such enlightening advice!

No problem.....plus you'll still be in the 'West'.

Plenty of time to ponder the evils of "affluenza" too!

[Melanie_]

Do you see affluenza where you are? I'm just trying to help my kids see that the world is bigger than Winnipeg, and that they have ties to other parts of the world where children not that different from them live in very different circumstances. My kids are visible minorities, with family in developing countries, so it's important to me that they see beyond the privilege they live in.

[bush_cheney2004]

Do you see affluenza where you are? I'm just trying to help my kids see that the world is bigger than Winnipeg, and that they have ties to other parts of the world where children not that different from them live in very different circumstances. My kids are visible minorities, with family in developing countries, so it's important to me that they see beyond the privilege they live in.

I sure hope I see "affluenza"....that's why I go to work each day! Just got a new PS3....it's frickin' amazing!

As for the "visible minority" angle, the whole concept is whacked. Plenty of people do not live in "privilege" right here regardless of their "minority" status.

[Melanie_]

Yes, there are plenty of people who are underprivileged here in Canada, and I'm sure there are in the States as well. But we have a social safety net - if someone is really destitute, they will still recieve medical care, they can still send their kids to school, and there are still programs available to give them a hand up (not a hand out). My taxes already go to them. In other parts of the world, there are no programs available; and because my kids have roots in some of these places, I try to give them a connection to what it might be like for kids there.

[bush_cheney2004]

....My taxes already go to them. In other parts of the world, there are no programs available; and because my kids have roots in some of these places, I try to give them a connection to what it might be like for kids there.

How do you do that.....Poverty Day? I think it is presumtuous to define "privilege" strictly in affluenza terms, as if that is the benchmark for poverty that others must feel deprived about, unless you mean clean drinking water.

My family has "roots" in Africa, but no desire to make any such "connection" unless it's on a DVD or Blu-Ray disk.

[Melanie_]

It is about clean drinking water for us. Maybe our roots are more immediate, as my husband immigrated as a young adult, and still has family in Kenya. I don't really want my kids to feel guilty, but rather to have an awareness that there is more beyond their priveleged life in suburbia.