Muslim father chokes daughter to near death

[Canadian Blue]

I am sure some silly liberal teacher told the kid that fathers have no say in their lives - and encouraged this child to rebel against a thousand year old tradition - I would say that those that tossed their secularist and feminist eccentric support behind this dead kid are in a way just as responsible for her death as is the father - this is a point - that shows the failure of this experiment to create a super society via multi-cultural fraud...what the hell do these engineers expect to happen

So the liberals who supported the female student to become a free thinker are at fault for her death. How much more ridiculous can you get.

There are mothers tossing babies off bridges and fathers hanging themselves in dispair - are we better than this Muslim fanatic? Look at the mess - this multi-culturalism - is a fraud - it is by design made to destroy all culture and create utlititarianism of the most secular kind -

You just stated that the her "liberal" teachers encouraged her to go against a 1000 year tradition. If anything that proves that secular society does create free thinking individuals, not theological fascists.

This simply shows me that religion truly does poison everything.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Canadian Blue

[Guest American Woman]

Again - why would you invite a group of immigrants into the nation - who harbour hate for us ? We are truely stupid - that's like asking the guy next door that hates you to move into to your home...this killer believes that all of our woman are whores and all our males dumb animals - seems that those decended from the Shemite traditions - Muslim and Jew - hold us in contempt - so - this "father" is a great embarrassement to the elitists - he lost it and will be punished for exposeing his hate that is to be kept secret.

We don't. We require an oath of allegiance to Canada don't we ?

You require an oath of allegiance from immigrants who live in Canada but haven't become citizens? I thought the oath only applied to citizenship. I wonder how many immigrants actually become citizens. Does anyone have statistics on that?

I can't believe that this father would get off on a 'cultural differences' defense. I'd like to ask those of you claiming he will-- do you have any previous cases to base your claims on? Has this happened in the past? If so, I'd really appreciate some links.

[August1991]

Yes of course, my mistake. Murdering your children never happens in wasp society, and if it did, we would all clamour and shout that it is a cultural problem.

....the fear and loathing of the racially insecure should be covered by medicare.

This strikes me as the core of the discussion here.

If some angry Christian guy kills his daughter or his wife, then we say that he's an abusive wife-beater.

If some angry Muslim guy kills his wife or daughter, then we say that he's a typical Islamic patriarch.

And after all is said, the tragedy here is that regardless of the reason, a young girl is dead.

[Wild Bill]

In Steyn's book "America Alone" he talks about clashes of cultures and mentions how the British in India were confronted with the Indian custom of "suttee" which is a tradition of burning widows on the funeral pyres of their husbands.

He quotes General Sir Charles Napier as "impeccably multicultural" by stating: "You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."

Anyone who thinks that all cultural traits are equally moral and valid deserves whatever "David Pearl" type of fate that some other culture chooses to hand out to them.

[Guest American Woman]

This strikes me as the core of the discussion here.

If some angry Christian guy kills his daughter or his wife, then we say that he's an abusive wife-beater.

If some angry Muslim guy kills his wife or daughter, then we say that he's a typical Islamic patriarch.

And after all is said, the tragedy here is that regardless of the reason, a young girl is dead.

I'm guessing the Christian guy didn't kill his daughter or his wife for refusing to go to mass or to confession or refusing to partake in some other religious belief. Christians aren't doing that, while some Muslims do engage in honor killings. This father was angry because his daughter refused to wear the hijab. That's not saying it's "typical" of Muslims, but it does happen.

Edited December 12, 2007 by American Woman

[Michael Hardner]

AW,

You require an oath of allegiance from immigrants who live in Canada but haven't become citizens? I thought the oath only applied to citizenship. I wonder how many immigrants actually become citizens. Does anyone have statistics on that?

I can't believe that this father would get off on a 'cultural differences' defense. I'd like to ask those of you claiming he will-- do you have any previous cases to base your claims on? Has this happened in the past? If so, I'd really appreciate some links.

'Inviting them in', meaning 'inviting them to be Canadian'. All immigrants have to become citizens after a certain time period, I think.

They have no links for you, AW. They only have their strawmen and shrieks that the politcally correct have destroyed the country. What that means is anyone's guess, although it seems to mean that if a single person utters a word in the father's defense at any time then their irrational fears will be validated.

[Guest American Woman]

AW,

'Inviting them in', meaning 'inviting them to be Canadian'. All immigrants have to become citizens after a certain time period, I think.

That can't be right. I can't imagine people being forced to become a citizen. My grandma moved to the U.S. at age 7 and lived her life here until she died at almost 90 without ever becoming a citizen. I can't imagine that it's any different in Canada.

They have no links for you, AW. They only have their strawmen and shrieks that the politcally correct have destroyed the country. What that means is anyone's guess, although it seems to mean that if a single person utters a word in the father's defense at any time then their irrational fears will be validated.

The only information I could find points to the opposite of their claims; that the courts won't take religious beliefs into account regarding crimes/sentencing.

[guyser]

The only information I could find points to the opposite of their claims; that the courts won't take religious beliefs into account regarding crimes/sentencing.

True.

The Supreme Court refused to hear a case that was appealed to them because the man wanted to introduce his religious beliefs allowed him to kill his unfaithful wife.

There is a legal defence of "provocation" to reduce murder to manslaughter, but in this case he would not be successful .

Maybe some here are mixing the two up, or quite frankly have an agenda. I will go with the latter.

[August1991]

I'm guessing the Christian guy didn't kill his daughter or his wife for refusing to go to mass or to confession or refusing to partake in some other religious belief. Christians aren't doing that, while some Muslims do engage in honor killings. This father was angry because his daughter refused to wear the hijab. That's not saying it's "typical" of Muslims, but it does happen.

If a father or a husband kills or batters his wife or daughter, does it really matter what the ostensible motivation is?

I'd want to see data showing that Muslims in Canada are more prone to family violence than people of other religious backgrounds.

A quick search of google for "father kills daughter" seems to show a mixed bag. Among non-Muslims, murder-suicide seems to be more common.

As Morris Dancer noted above, it's not as if Wasps are exempt from family violence.

----

The specific case of this young girl is especially tragic in my view. By all appearances, she was trying to exercice her right to choose freely her own way in life. She faced traditional constraints. Third world countries are filled with similar stories as this one. Often, the young girl (or boy) commits suicide.

Many Canadians (in particular women) don't fully appreciate the freedom they enjoy.

All immigrants have to become citizens after a certain time period, I think.

Not true. A foreigner can keep the status of permanent resident without ever becoming a Canadian citizen. Edited December 12, 2007 by August1991

[Drea]

My mom worked with a young woman from Pakistan. She was supposed to marry some old bugger and didn't want to. She disappeared. Maybe ran away, maybe married off, maybe killed we will never know.

Men who abuse women should have their hands cut off, one finger at a time (as a warning) the first time they lose their baby finger.. the second time the ring finger... and so on. This way it would be easy to identify abusers and avoid them.... although I did date a nice guy who was missing the tip of his middle finger... hmmmm.

[ScottSA]

My mom worked with a young woman from Pakistan. She was supposed to marry some old bugger and didn't want to. She disappeared. Maybe ran away, maybe married off, maybe killed we will never know.

Men who abuse women should have their hands cut off, one finger at a time (as a warning) the first time they lose their baby finger.. the second time the ring finger... and so on. This way it would be easy to identify abusers and avoid them.... although I did date a nice guy who was missing the tip of his middle finger... hmmmm.

And I suppose women who abuse men should get the best free counselling available, right?

[guyser]

My mom worked with a young woman from Pakistan. She was supposed to marry some old bugger and didn't want to. She disappeared. Maybe ran away, maybe married off, maybe killed we will never know.

Men who abuse women should have their hands cut off, one finger at a time (as a warning) the first time they lose their baby finger.. the second time the ring finger... and so on. This way it would be easy to identify abusers and avoid them.... although I did date a nice guy who was missing the tip of his middle finger... hmmmm.

And the women who do this would be subject to what? No more VISA? All pants made to look fat in?

[Michael Hardner]

That can't be right. I can't imagine people being forced to become a citizen. My grandma moved to the U.S. at age 7 and lived her life here until she died at almost 90 without ever becoming a citizen. I can't imagine that it's any different in Canada.

So it is. Then indeed, Canada and the US may be allowing people who despise them to live there. That is, people who weren't born there already.

[Drea]

And the women who do this would be subject to what? No more VISA? All pants made to look fat in?

HOw can you take away something that belongs to her (the Visa).

Your sure seem to think that women are wholly dependent on men for their incomes... not the case anymore darlin'. We gots our own Visas now. Ps, it is 2007.... not 1957. Did someone forget to wake you?

Many men like big butts so wearing "fat" pants is a good thing for some!

And I suppose women who abuse men should get the best free counselling available, right?

Heck I am all for equality... those 12 or so women that have physically abused men to the point of disability or death.... well we can just do the same to them as well!

The thread is about a father who killed his daughter. Male kills female.

If it would have been a son and a mother, do you think mommy would have choked her son because he didn't want to be "traditional"? I highly doubt it.

Only men want to have complete control over the women in their lives (hell even my hubby still has vestiges of the partriarchy in his psyche.)

I am working on beating it out of him however <---- kidding. Just tryin' ta get yer goat. LOL

[capricorn]

IMO the religion of the murderer is a side issue and it is despicable that any perp would fall back on that to defend and rationalize his heinous actions. What all these cases have in common, i.e. men murdering the women in their lives is that they perceive they have ownership and power over the victim and/or the woman somehow brings him dishonour.

Man kills estranged partner because "if I can't have her no one else will". In some cases these men also kill their children and sometimes commit suicide.

Man kills daughter because "I am your father therefore you cannot disobey me". Or, "if you persist in this behaviour you are dishonouring me because I am superior to you and know what is best".

These men are not insane but they are sociopaths. They cannot be rehabilitated and should be locked up for life. Hopefully they would commit suicide after their hateful act so as to rid the earth of their scum.

[Guest American Woman]

Heck I am all for equality... those 12 or so women that have physically abused men to the point of disability or death.... well we can just do the same to them as well!

You are sadly unaware of reality if you truly believe women don't abuse men too. I suggest you take steps to educate yourself.

Only men want to have complete control over the women in their lives

Riiiight. There are no controlling women.

[Guest American Woman]

If a father or a husband kills or batters his wife or daughter, does it really matter what the ostensible motivation is?

It matters to the extent that in some cases they believe they are justified, and in some parts of the world they are seen as justified, so they feel as if they have the right to do it. This is the case in 'honor killings.' Do you really not see that as a problem?

[bush_cheney2004]

You are sadly unaware of reality if you truly believe women don't abuse men too. I suggest you take steps to educate yourself.

True...women abuse millions of males and females each year with extreme prejudice...in utero.

[guyser]

Your sure seem to think that women are wholly dependent on men for their incomes... not the case anymore darlin'. We gots our own Visas now. Ps, it is 2007.... not 1957. Did someone forget to wake you?

Many men like big butts so wearing "fat" pants is a good thing for some!

Women are independant, and I have no qualms with that.

What you missed obviously, (you know with the smiley face that makes you look imbecilic ), is merely a counter to your obvious one sidedness of penalties for injuries caused by men. Suggesting that women should have an easier penalty phase.

Heck I am all for equality... those 12 or so women that have physically abused men to the point of disability or death.... well we can just do the same to them as well!

No you arent, you just want to rant against men.

Only men want to have complete control over the women in their lives

Lesbians dont? Women dont want to control men? And I am in 1957?

(hell even my hubby still has vestiges of the partriarchy in his psyche.)

I am working on beating it out of him however <---- kidding. Just tryin' ta get yer goat. LOL

I doubt you are kidding

[August1991]

It matters to the extent that in some cases they believe they are justified, and in some parts of the world they are seen as justified, so they feel as if they have the right to do it. This is the case in 'honor killings.' Do you really not see that as a problem?

Does it matter? Son of Sam shot people because he said that the neighbour's dog told him to do it.

I'm willing to give extra attention to this case because it does show a "clash of civilizations". It's a Romeo & Juliet tragedy. A young girl defies her father and wants to choose her own life. Across North America tonight, how many teenagers are arguing with their parents about the freedom to choose? In immigrant families from traditional societies, these arguments are often deeply generational.

Nevertheless, it still amounts to an abusive father/husband.

You are sadly unaware of reality if you truly believe women don't abuse men too. I suggest you take steps to educate yourself.

By far, men are the physical abusers (although I have known a few women who beat up their husbands). Emotional abuse is different. If this young girl suffered only emotional abuse, she'd still be alive.

[bush_cheney2004]

What you missed obviously, (you know with the smiley face that makes you look imbecilic ), is merely a counter to your obvious one sidedness of penalties for injuries caused by men. Suggesting that women should have an easier penalty phase.

Yes...it was ironic indeed....punish abuse by chopping digits off.

Edited December 12, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[Drea]

Women are independant, and I have no qualms with that.

What you missed obviously, (you know with the smiley face that makes you look imbecilic ), is merely a counter to your obvious one sidedness of penalties for injuries caused by men. Suggesting that women should have an easier penalty phase.

I wasn't the one who said women have it easier in jail.. another poster mentioned how easy Homolka had it.

No you arent, you just want to rant against men.

I doubt you are kidding

He is bigger and stronger than me.

I was hit once in a relationship. I left that very moment. As I would never stand for abuse, I would not expect any man to either. So, yes I was actually kidding.

If you have been keeping up with various topics you would see that I am an advocate for men's rights with regard to divorce, custody, birthcontrol, and the like. I certainly have no need to "rant against men".

Abusive men are more likely (not exclusively) to use physical violence. The vast majority of abusive women bitch and nag but that never put anyone in the hospital nor killed them. I know of men who are emotionally abusive and it's a terrible thing. It cannot cause death so it is not quite as terrible as getting a beating. No?

Yes, of course there are cases of abusive women who physically beat the men in their lives. But this woman-on-man abuse occurs less often than the man-on-woman abuse.

Even in our culture (and yes, on MLW) there are men that believe women should be "controlled". The level of what "control" means may differentiate western men from the Muslim man who kills his daughter or wife in an attempt to control her, but it is still there.

Yes, again... there are controlling women, but in most abusive situations it's obvious that our culture still has vestiges of the inequitable era when the partriarchy ruled and women had to obey.

Edited December 12, 2007 by Drea

[gc1765]

-Immigrants came from Pakistan a year ago.

-Father is 57 years old (why is he here??)

-Daughter was refusing to wear hijab.

-Father strangled daughter to near death and is now at Sick Kids Hospital in grave condition.

Anyone want to tally up what this is costing the tax payer? I know what I just said is mean and insensitive, but the only way to have avoided all this from hapenning is to stop families from wandering into Canada who are of no benefit to us, and our economy.

Robert Pickton:

-Born in Canada

-Mid fifties

-Found guilty of killing 6 women (and likely killed many, many more)

How much did this trial cost the tax payer? A heck of a lot more than your example.

...so, what the heck was your point again??

[Lazarus]

From what I can gather from the news radio at work, the father himself called the police stating he thought he had killed his daughter.

Many years ago I was a cop and attended more then my fair share of violent domestic disturbance calls. Usually the violence doesn't just happen, a slowly escalating series of events leads towards a snapping point and in a fit of anger and rage, someone does something causing harm to another. Odds are this is what happened here. The issue was the daughter refusing to wear the traditional head scarf and going against her father's authority. Words were said, tempers flared, harsher words were said, neither side willing to back down, both believing they are in the right, then something snapped and violence occurred, leaving a young girl dead, her father now murder and a family shattered. I give him some grudging credit, he knew he had done wrong and he could of attempted to cover it up, hide the body or pull the old, my daughter has gone missing routine, he didn't do any of these things, he called the police and turned himself in. Judging from what little I have heard, I would say that this killing was done in the passion of the moment and was not premeditated, and hence he will be charged with second degree murder and when convicted will do prison time.

Their religion has little to do with other then being the catalyst. He could well of been a good Christian man who got angry with his daughter for sleeping around, or doing drugs, or whatever and could of snapped during an argument over her lifestyle. The majority of these types of killings, be parent killing child, child killing parent or spouse killing spouse happen in the heat of the moment.

How many here can honestly say that they have not been pushed close to the brink by a family member or loved one, where you have come close to or actually have snapped and lashed out, or have been on the receiving end of being lashed out at? Such violence is in-excusable, however it is understandable. The man will have his day in court and he will be punished by the laws of Canada.

But what is almost as sickening as the act, is that there are those that would use this tragedy to push their own political agenda, namely the anti-immigration, anti-Islam, anti-nonwhite pro-Eurocentric Christian only agenda. Listening to these bottom dwelling mouth-breathers, I can hear the echo's of May 23, 1914 resounding as once again, the scared and insecure White men of Canada attempt to hold back the "Brown Invasion".

[August1991]

Lazarus, it would be mistaken to ignore the fact that the family is Muslim. This has played prominently in news reports for a reason. It matters both for the crime itself and for the public perception of this tragedy.

Women in traditional Muslim families do not have the same freedoms as men. This is a source of friction when such families live in North America.

It is foolishly politically correct to pretend otherwise.