Muslim father chokes daughter to near death

[mikedavid00]

but it doesn't sound as cold blooded and planned as honour killings can sometimes be.

But the reasoning is the same as an honor killing. And you really have to try hard and long to sufficate someone to death.

NEWS IN: Supposeldy a family memeber was in the court room holding his heart all upset. Why? lol.. the lawyer for Parvez says that he has HEART PROBLEMS that need to be dealt with.

[guyser]

Well the tax payers shouldn't be funding their mortgage.

They dont. Relevance?

Look, Aqsa getting killed at 16 is a tragedy.

Yes it is, but that did not stop you from using it for your agenda.

She is a true hero in Canada that died for her right to integrate and make her own descisions as a women.

She's a true, true hero and an example to all the young, trapped women in Canada.

God bless her, R.I.P Aqsa

RIP I agree. She however is no hero .

[M.Dancer]

But the reasoning is the same as an honor killing. And you really have to try hard and long to sufficate someone to death.

She was strangled. You can do that in moments by crushing the wind pipe.

[Fortunata]

Krista Garbutt remembers walking down the street with Ms. Parvez earlier this year, when the two of them spotted Ms. Parvez's brother walking toward them. Panicking, the teenager quickly fumbled for her head scarf, trying to put it on. “There were times when we'd be walking down the street and she'd see her brother and she wouldn't be wearing her hijab and she'd have to put it on,” Ms. Garbutt said. “She said, ‘He'll kill me, he'll kill me.' I said, ‘He's not going to kill you,' but she said, ‘Yeah, he will.' And nobody believed it.”

Link

I think it's definitely a possiblity that the thought did cross the father's mind before he commited the act.

Anything is possible.

There are many teens in this country that choose to live with friends; anywhere other than home. This is not something new. Teens and parents don't always get along, hijab or no hijab.

I'm not saying she was or was not in danger; she thought she was and from the article AW posted, she said she thought her brother would kill her. It was the father that killed her (not the brother) and we cannot know, with only as much information as we have, whether it was preplanned or he snapped. Which, I must repeat, does not excuse the action.

And it is not that parents have not killed their teenage or younger children before, for reasons (I guess) they thought were legitimate at the time. So it happens whether they are from European backgrounds or Asian backgrounds. I don't think we should jump up and down and blame it on anything until we get a fuller picture. She's dead, the father has been charged with second degree murder and is in jail, the brother is in jail (anyone know specifically what caused the obstruction charge?). It's a tragedy all the way around.

[marcinmoka]

And you really have to try hard and long to sufficate someone to death.

I would not know.

[mikedavid00]

So it happens whether they are from European backgrounds or Asian backgrounds. I don't think we should jump up and down and blame it on anything until we get a fuller picture. She's dead, the father has been charged with second degree murder and is in jail, the brother is in jail (anyone know specifically what caused the obstruction charge?). It's a tragedy all the way around.

This happens in European homes? Please cite examples.

"Salam (means hello),I've lived all my life to witnessing this crap happen again and agian.For those who say Islam doent tell us to kill.We are instructed clearly to have dialogue, then to scare, then to kill the siblings that apposed the word of Allah.I attended a class for Al-Maghrib literally down the street from the Parvez home(victim's home)and the instructor Mohammad Al-Sharif clearly said, if dialogue doesn't work, then it's up to you to deal with it according to the Quran and Sunnah teachings! "

[Fortunata]

This happens in European homes? Please cite examples.

http://www.canadiancrc.com/articles/AP_Mot...ed_23NOV04.aspx

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/31/...ain327158.shtml

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/09/16/State/Fa..._daughter.shtml

http://trishwilson.typepad.com/blog/2005/0...r_kills_3_.html

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2007...en_then_him.php

Enough for you? Google father mother kills children.

[Guest American Woman]

And it is not that parents have not killed their teenage or younger children before, for reasons (I guess) they thought were legitimate at the time. So it happens whether they are from European backgrounds or Asian backgrounds. I don't think we should jump up and down and blame it on anything until we get a fuller picture. She's dead, the father has been charged with second degree murder and is in jail, the brother is in jail (anyone know specifically what caused the obstruction charge?). It's a tragedy all the way around.

Did you read the link I provided earlier? Another excerpt:

In 2000, the United Nations estimated that around 5,000 girls and women in at least 14 countries, among them Pakistan, Jordan and Turkey, were killed yearly because their families felt they brought dishonor on them.

But statistics in Europe are hard to come by given the fact that some honor-related crimes are recorded as simple murders or domestic violence.

It's not jumping up and down to point out that the reason he killed her was her desire to wear western clothes. It's a tragedy that possibly could be avoided in the future if we don't close our eyes to what's going on in the world.

I can't help but believe that if it were Christians committing honor killings, there would be a huge outcry from those dismissing the very real problem that exists. To recognize the problem is not to condemn Islam. I have the feeling some believe it is.

Edited December 12, 2007 by American Woman

[Fortunata]

Did you read the link I provided earlier? Another excerpt:

In 2000, the United Nations estimated that around 5,000 girls and women in at least 14 countries, among them Pakistan, Jordan and Turkey, were killed yearly because their families felt they brought dishonor on them.

But statistics in Europe are hard to come by given the fact that some honor-related crimes are recorded as simple murders or domestic violence.

It's not jumping up and down to point out that the reason he killed her was her desire to wear western clothes. It's a tragedy the possibly could be avoided in the future if we don't close our eyes to what's going on in the world.

I can't help but believe that if it were Christians committing honor killings, there would be a huge outcry from those dismissing the very real problem that exists. To recognize the problem is not to condemn Islam. I have the feeling some believe it is.

Has this been proven, then that this is an honour killing? I've pointed out that even in non Muslim homes parents kill children. What do we blame this on?

It may well have been an honour killing, although imv, it doesn't quite fit the profile. And we all know that honour killings happen with tragic regularity in some cultures. That doesn't mean this is. We do not know yet. And to not jump on the honour killing bandwagon doesn't mean that eyes are closed; what it means that it is not yet known.

[guyser]

This happens in European homes? Please cite examples.

Here you go.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/03/15/he...mony010315.html

[Guest American Woman]

Has this been proven, then that this is an honour killing? I've pointed out that even in non Muslim homes parents kill children. What do we blame this on?

It may well have been an honour killing, although imv, it doesn't quite fit the profile. And we all know that honour killings happen with tragic regularity in some cultures. That doesn't mean this is. We do not know yet. And to not jump on the honour killing bandwagon doesn't mean that eyes are closed; what it means that it is not yet known.

To recognize that this exists is not "jumping on the honor killing bandwagon." Obviously this has not been proven to be an honor killing since there has been no trial yet. But even if it is, as my link shows, it very likely may never be classified as one, but recorded as a "simple murder or family violence." So we do have to make a point of opening our eyes to what is going on, or it may be swept under the rug. That's my point.

It sounds to me as if the girl feared for her life. That much seems obvious. I don't know how anyone could refute that. I've read a couple of quotes from her friends that say she said her father would kill her or her brother would. That's not a simple matter of a father snapping. How many kids do you know that have a real fear that their father or brother will kill them?

I think in light of this tragedy, we have to look at the very real possibility that this was in the manner of an honor killing; that honor killings do bring about thoughts of killing in some men's minds. To question why the fact that this man is Muslim is being reported, as if it's just in light of 'anti-Islam,' is difficult to understand.

Again, if Christians were the ones committing honor killings and the father, brother, daughter in this case were Christians, I truly believe we'd be hearing a lot of outcries from the same crowd who seem to be trying to 'equivalize' the treatment of women in Muslim nations with fundamentalist Christians in our society. There is no comparison. Period.

Edited December 12, 2007 by American Woman

[Black Dog]

If this case is an indictment of how Muslim society treats it's women, what does the fact that Robert Pickton was able to kill as many as 49 women say about ours?

[mikedavid00]

http://www.canadiancrc.com/articles/AP_Mot...ed_23NOV04.aspx

That was a mother drowing her children due to insanity. Not becuase their kids were not wearning a head scarf and wearing western clothing.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/31/...ain327158.shtml

That was a mother with post pardon stress dissorder. Not becuase her child was not wearning a head scarf and wearing western clothing.

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/09/16/State/Fa..._daughter.shtml

That was probably the most common form of child death - a father killing the children and himself in order to cause his wife the pain that she caused him. Not a direct attack between the father and daughter becuase her child was not wearning a head scarf and wearing western clothing.

http://trishwilson.typepad.com/blog/2005/0...r_kills_3_.html

That was an attempt rob the mother of her children using the child as a pawn in a vandeta with the mother. Not becuase her child was not wearning a head scarf and wearing western clothing.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2007...en_then_him.php

Again, this was a father revenging his astranged wife, Not becuase her child was not wearning a head scarf and wearing western clothing.

You are now resorting to straw man arguments. Facts are, this stuff doesn't happen anywhere else but the third world, but manages to quickly make its way to Canada... kind of like Sars..

[mikedavid00]

RIP I agree. She however is no hero .

That's disgusting.. Shame on you.

[mikedavid00]

She was strangled. You can do that in moments by crushing the wind pipe.

Not when the daughter is fairly hefty and the father is 57 years old with 'heart problems'.

You are starting to grasp at straws now to defend the father.

[Black Dog]

mikedavid seems to have a somewhat prurient interest in the gory details of this crime...

[M.Dancer]

Not when the daughter is fairly hefty and the father is 57 years old with 'heart problems'.

You are starting to grasp at straws now to defend the father.

Listen bud, I'm not the one who is on record saying:

You can't blame the 57 year old Pakistani father doing what he did either to an extent.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Question: What's the definition of a millisecond?

Answer: The time it takes for an atrocity comitted by a Muslim to turn into a warning against "knee jerk Islamophobia"

Heck - why waste precious time?

The logical next step is for the local mosque / Islamic congress to issue press releases warning against Islamophobia the day before the train bombing. Efficiency, right?

[mikedavid00]

Here you go.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/03/15/he...mony010315.html

A mentally ill mother who is starving her son to death?

Come on. Show me where the man of the household is killing their daughters due to shame on the family. This has happened with a Sikh family in Vancouver where a sikh family sent out a hit on their daughter when she ran away to India.. but I'm not aware of any other circumstances.

Actually.. who remembers that brutal, disgusting mass killing of mostly young women in BC when they were marching down the street for a wedding in BC? They went ahead with the wedding becuase they do NOT value a womans life.

Where are all the feminists?

[Argus]

The right is falling over themselves and drowning each other in shrieking noises and hyperbole.

Of course this will be investigated. Unfortunately for most of you, there will not be a mass deportation to atone for this crime.

And fortunately for Muslim women the Left don't have their way. Or this sort of thing would be legal.

[Fortunata]

To recognize that this exists is not "jumping on the honor killing bandwagon." Obviously this has not been proven to be an honor killing since there has been no trial yet. But even if it is, as my link shows, it very likely may never be classified as one, but recorded as a "simple murder or family violence." So we do have to make a point of opening our eyes to what is going on, or it may be swept under the rug. That's my point.

It sounds to me as if the girl feared for her life. That much seems obvious. I don't know how anyone could refute that. I've read a couple of quotes from her friends that say she said her father would kill her or her brother would. That's not a simple matter of a father snapping. How many kids do you know that have a real fear that their father or brother will kill them?

I think in light of this tragedy, we have to look at the very real possibility that this was in the manner of an honor killing; that honor killings do bring about thoughts of killing in some men's minds. To question why the fact that this man is Muslim is being reported, as if it's just in light of 'anti-Islam,' is difficult to understand.

Again, if Christians were the ones committing honor killings and the father, brother, daughter in this case were Christians, I truly believe we'd be hearing a lot of outcries from the same crowd who seem to be trying to 'equivalize' the treatment of women in Muslim nations with fundamentalist Christians in our society. There is no comparison. Period.

I'm not saying that western treatment of women is the same as eastern treatment of women. Eastern treatment of women is apalling in so many ways. It doubles my appreciation of having the good luck to be born into the society in which I was.

All I am saying is that this cannot be automatically attributed to an "honour" killing without further proof. This case is high profile, and if it was, I am sure it will come out. There is so much interest in it that I doubt it will be swept under the rug.

Killings happen for a number of reasons, none of which are right and none of which make sense to those not involved or even to those who are involved. What does matter is that the father called to say he killed. He is in jail. This leads me to believe that justice will be done. It also leads me to believe that the father will not get off lightly just because of cultural differences if that is used as a defense.

[Argus]

Yes of course, my mistake. Murdering your children never happens in wasp society, and if it did, we would all clamour and shout that it is a cultural problem.

Most unfortunately, it is known to happen. However, it is virtually always a case of someone who is drunk, and a habitually violent sort shunned by others. No excuses are ever made by anyone for this horrible behaviour.

Unfortunately, in certain segments of the immigrant community, this sort of thing is considered acceptable. This man will actually be applauded and lauded for his noble actions in defending his family's honour. That's not something that EVER happens in the West.

Did that BC temple ever take any actions against the man who was a member of its govening council who'd had his niece murdered in India? Haven't heard of that case in a while. But that was where the mother and uncle got together to conspire to arrange for a woman's murder when she returned home for a visit to India because she was seeing someone the family didn't approve of. As I recall this man remained a respected member of the Sikh community, which showed no great excitement over his behaviour.

....the fear and loathing of the racially insecure should be covered by medicare.

Well, if you lefties hadn't pretty much wrecked medicare then maybe it would be.

[Argus]

especially with the welfare bums we HAVE ALREADY.......

Is the fact we already have welfare bums a good reason to bring in more?

[mikedavid00]

Listen bud, I'm not the one who is on record saying:

That doesn't mean I'm defending him.

But certainly I can udnerstand the alien culture he is from. As long as world trash settle in Canada, this will happen. They would have done fine in Pakistan if they stayed there.

[Fortunata]

Show me where the man of the household is killing their daughters due to shame on the family.

Show me where she was killed due to shaming her family. It more looks like she was killed by rebelling against her family's religious beliefs, not shame.

And fortunately for Muslim women the Left don't have their way. Or this sort of thing would be legal.

Show me one instance in this thread that anyone is saying this killing is justified or where someone is trying to defend the father who killed.