Queen of Canada

[Black Dog]

I think it's a mistake to think b_c2004 has a point here.

[AngusThermopyle]

Ripping the royals has become commonplace since the Lady Di fiasco.....they can take their lumps like any other "celebrity".

Well I can't disagree with you on that one. She certainly did a rip snortin job of destroying a centuries old image of dignity in a very short time. Pop star celebrity seeking just doesn't gell very well with the image Royalty is supposed to project.

[bush_cheney2004]

Mockery from a country where they swear allegiance to a piece of fabric?

Cue posts about Canada bombing Kosovo in 3...2...

Thank you for proving Ivan Pavlov's Theory of Conditioned Reflex...again.

Americans don't swear allegiance...they pledge allegiance to the flag, to wit:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

However, we do not utter..."God Save the Flag".

[guyser]

Americans don't swear allegiance...they pledge allegiance to the flag, to wit:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

But surely a capitalist as yourself doesnt pledge a Socialists anthem?

However, we do not utter..."God Save the Flag".

And I know you realize that no one does either......

But your pavlovian experiment worked, sadly.

[bush_cheney2004]

But surely a capitalist as yourself doesnt pledge a Socialists anthem?

Not anymore....I pledge allegiance to the shrinking dollar.

And I know you realize that no one does either......

But your pavlovian experiment worked, sadly.

Yes, I suspect that many MLW members know which buttons to push by now.

I really harbor no ill will towards the Queen, just the same royal notions that pissed off John Locke.

[Black Dog]

Thank you for proving Ivan Pavlov's Theory of Conditioned Reflex...again.

Meh. I have no love for HRH and no particular reason to rise to her defense beyond the fact you're one of thos epeople who just gets on my tits.

Americans don't swear allegiance...they pledge allegiance to the flag, to wit:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Pledge is a synonym of swear. It's the same thing.

However, we do not utter..."God Save the Flag".

"God Save The Queen" has no legal status in Canada, although it is considered as the royal anthem, to be played in the presence of members of the Royal Family or as part of the salute accorded to the Governor General and the lieutenant governors.

In other words, its a ceremonial piece of music, rather like "God Bless America" in that regard.

[Wilber]

I really harbor no ill will towards the Queen, just the same royal notions that pissed off John Locke.

It was James II that pissed Locke off. Not the only one as the Brits gave Jimmy the boot. Locke was good buddies with William and Mary was he not?

[bush_cheney2004]

Meh. I have no love for HRH and no particular reason to rise to her defense beyond the fact you're one of thos epeople who just gets on my tits.

I know....it is why I work hard to cultivate the image of Ugly American. I want to be your online stars and stripes punching bag. A troll? Perhaps, but to those who know my game by now, the thinking man's troll.

Pledge is a synonym of swear. It's the same thing.

No, Francis Bellamy felt otherwise when he wrote it.

"God Save The Queen" has no legal status in Canada, although it is considered as the royal anthem, to be played in the presence of members of the Royal Family or as part of the salute accorded to the Governor General and the lieutenant governors.

In other words, its a ceremonial piece of music, rather like "God Bless America" in that regard.

Oh...I thought it was just good comedy writing for Monty Python's Flying Circus.

[Guest coot]

In other words, its a ceremonial piece of music, rather like "God Bless America" in that regard.

More like "My Country, Tis of Thee," which blatantly stole the melody of "God Save the Queen."

[Guest coot]

....the thinking man's troll.

[Leafless]

Americans don't swear allegiance...they pledge allegiance to the flag, to wit:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

However, we do not utter..."God Save the Flag".

Americans must think their flag is God.

U.S. is the nation of wall to wall flags, no matter where you go in the U.S., all you see are flags and more flags.

I sooner sing 'God Save the Queen'.

[capricorn]

Leafless, if the US has too many flags then Canada has too few. I'd love to see the Maple Leaf fly in many more locations than we see today.

Good on the Americans for their show of patriotism which at times makes me envious.

[bush_cheney2004]

Americans must think their flag is God.

U.S. is the nation of wall to wall flags, no matter where you go in the U.S., all you see are flags and more flags.

I sooner sing 'God Save the Queen'.

Just as well....the Americans take their flag very seriously for union, war, bloodshed, and booting kings in the ass. Even my Canadian colleagues at work wear apparel with US flags / pins.

In 1965 when Canada retired the Red Ensign, they raised the Maple Leaf flag while singing "Oh Canada" and (royally) "God Save the Queen".

[bush_cheney2004]

Leafless, if the US has too many flags then Canada has too few. I'd love to see the Maple Leaf fly in many more locations than we see today.

Good on the Americans for their show of patriotism which at times makes me envious.

In my neck of the woods, there are many displays of the Maple Leaf.....sports arenas, businesses, retail stores, etc. like this:

http://www.uponor-usa.com/Footer/About%20U...%20Company.aspx

[guyser]

Leafless, if the US has too many flags then Canada has too few. I'd love to see the Maple Leaf fly in many more locations than we see today.

Good on the Americans for their show of patriotism which at times makes me envious.

I am of the opinion that we fly as many flags as the Yanks do. I think we notice their flags in our travels . Ours since they are around all the time, dont get noticed.

[Guest American Woman]

One thing I'll never understand is criticism of a country for flying its flag. Why would that bother anyone? Why would that be a bad thing-- a cause of criticism? It's especially puzzling when its coming from citizens of a nation that love to wear its flag on their backpacks. Furthermore, when I travel to a nation abroad, I love to see that nation's flag flying.

I think you're right though, guyser. You're all used to seeing your flag, so it's sort of blends into the landscape. I know Canada's flag really stands out to me when I'm in Canada, so I imagine ours, which is so familiar to us, stands out a lot more in Canadians' eyes.

[Topaz]

More like "My Country, Tis of Thee," which blatantly stole the melody of "God Save the Queen."

Correction, do your research and you would find England had the music in 1744-45 and the US song was written in 1831.

[Leafless]

Just as well....the Americans take their flag very seriously for union, war, bloodshed, and booting kings in the ass. Even my Canadian colleagues at work wear apparel with US flags / pins.

In 1965 when Canada retired the Red Ensign, they raised the Maple Leaf flag while singing "Oh Canada" and (royally) "God Save the Queen".

I am just envious saying 'Americans must think their flag is God'.

I wish Canada took their flag seriously, the Red Ensign rather than to try to appease Quebec with the all Canadian Maple Leaf flag, which did nothing to lure Quebec to be part of Canadian ideologies as they are just as loyal to their provincial 'Fleur De Lise' flag as a symbol of Quebec 'nationalism' as they ever were.

Now our 'Maple Leaf flag' basically stands for nothing, since the country remains disunified, with the maple leaf flag representing 'no Canadian history' which was previously our proud association with the British and their history.

I would like to see a return of the the Red Ensign that represents our association as a 'Constitutional Monarchy' rather than play emotional flag games to appease Quebec.

[g_bambino]

I wish Canada took their flag seriously, the Red Ensign rather than to try to appease Quebec with the all Canadian Maple Leaf flag, which did nothing to lure Quebec to be part of Canadian ideologies as they are just as loyal to their provincial 'Fleur De Lise' flag as a symbol of Quebec 'nationalism' as they ever were.

Now our 'Maple Leaf flag' basically stands for nothing, since the country remains disunified, with the maple leaf flag representing 'no Canadian history' which was previously our proud association with the British and their history.

I would like to see a return of the the Red Ensign that represents our association as a 'Constitutional Monarchy' rather than play emotional flag games to appease Quebec.

Actually, even as a monarchist myself, I differ with you there. The Red Ensign really had no official status, and was rather ill suited as a national flag as it was actually a naval ensign. I also find it hard to believe the Maple Leaf flag was intended to clear away any reference to the country's past; the design was based on that of the Royal Military College's flag, and the colours were declared as Canada's official ones by King George V. The Red Ensign had no monarchical connection besides the Royal Union Flag in the canton, and we also can't ignore the fact that it looked remarkably similar to the flags of nearly every British Crown Colony.

No, as a national flag I think the Maple Leaf flag is a fine one. I just don't think it should be flown too much as its prevalence diminishes its meaning; it bothers me to no end that maple leafs are tacked onto every corporate logo out there just to make the company seem more "Canadian."

[Leafless]

Actually, even as a monarchist myself, I differ with you there. The Red Ensign really had no official status, and was rather ill suited as a national flag as it was actually a naval ensign. I also find it hard to believe the Maple Leaf flag was intended to clear away any reference to the country's past; the design was based on that of the Royal Military College's flag, and the colours were declared as Canada's official ones by King George V. The Red Ensign had no monarchical connection besides the Royal Union Flag in the canton, and we also can't ignore the fact that it looked remarkably similar to the flags of nearly every British Crown Colony.

No, as a national flag I think the Maple Leaf flag is a fine one. I just don't think it should be flown too much as its prevalence diminishes its meaning; it bothers me to no end that maple leafs are tacked onto every corporate logo out there just to make the company seem more "Canadian."

What is so great about an RMC clone? Where is the originality? Where is it shown it represents Canada's provinces?

It doesn't because that would only further offend Quebec that it is nothing more than a mere province in Canada.

You can call the Maple Leaf flag whatever you wish.

I call it an insult to Canada and in no way does it indicate a united Canada or our historical ties to the British empire and is just another failed excuse to appease Quebec.

As a matter of EITHER the Union Jack or the Red Ensign suits me fine as it would millions of other Canadians who used either one or the other of these two fine flags, onward from 1902-1965.

[Moxie]

God bless the Queen, I love the flag-- Maple Leaf and all. In fact I hope the Feds raise my income tax rate so I can be oppressed even more than I am.

Note: The job vacancy for the "Village Idiot" has been filled, no income tax (snicker yea right) deducted from payroll. I thank all applicants for applying but the best man for the job has been found.

[g_bambino]

What is so great about an RMC clone? Where is the originality?

I'm not going to gush over the Maple Leaf flag; but, I have to ask: what's so great about a British naval ensign clone that's been cloned all over the world? Where's the originality?

Where is it shown it represents Canada's provinces?

Where was it shown the Red Ensign represented the Canadian provinces?

Edited November 11, 2007 by g_bambino

[Leafless]

I'm not going to gush over the Maple Leaf flag; but, I have to ask: what's so great about a British naval ensign clone that's been cloned all over the world? Where's the originality?

I think it as it a proper flag from a country that gave us this great land 'Canada'.

Where was it shown the Red Ensign represented the Canadian provinces?

The Ensign did represent the provinces:

As new provinces entered Confederation, or when they received some mark of identification (sometimes taken from their seal), that mark was incorporated into the shield on the Canadian Red Ensign. By the turn of the century, the shield was made up of the coats of arms of the seven provinces then in Confederation.

In 1924, this unofficial version of the Canadian Red Ensign was changed by an Order in Council and the composite shield was replaced with the shield from the royal arms of Canada, more commonly known as the Canadian Coat of Arms. At the same time, this new version was approved for use on Canadian government buildings abroad. A similar order in 1945 authorized its use on federal buildings within Canada until a new national flag was adopted.

http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/cp...sc-cs/df5_e.cfm

It is easy to see the feds did not have the fortitude to implement the Red Ensign as Canada's national flag under pressure from Quebec who did not like or want anything British, thus the pressure for a new design to appease Quebec but really didn't help any.

[g_bambino]

I think it as it a proper flag from a country that gave us this great land 'Canada'.

Well, okay; but we can't then deride the Maple Leaf flag as being a clone.

The Ensign did represent the provinces:

As new provinces entered Confederation, or when they received some mark of identification (sometimes taken from their seal), that mark was incorporated into the shield on the Canadian Red Ensign. By the turn of the century, the shield was made up of the coats of arms of the seven provinces then in Confederation.

In 1924, this unofficial version of the Canadian Red Ensign was changed by an Order in Council and the composite shield was replaced with the shield from the royal arms of Canada, more commonly known as the Canadian Coat of Arms. At the same time, this new version was approved for use on Canadian government buildings abroad.

Actually, your quote affirms my point: Up until 1924 there were only seven provinces represented on the flag; and it was rather a mess. I can't imagine what another three shields added would have looked like. After 1924 the composite shields were replaced by the one of the Arms of His Majesty in Right of Canada; no provinces have been represented on the Red Ensign for 83 years. So, again, your argument in its favour falls rather flat.

As far as I see it, attachment to the Red Ensign is based solely its sentimental Britishness; which may well be a valid arguing point. But, I certainly don't feel much passion for it.

Edited November 12, 2007 by g_bambino

[Leafless]

As far as I see it, attachment to the Red Ensign is based solely its sentimental Britishness; which may well be a valid arguing point. But, I certainly don't feel much passion for it.

What sort of patriotic feelings does the maple leaf flag induce outside of the fact , yes, maple trees do grow in Canada and virtually leaves the importance of the nation and its provinces unattended.

The maple leaf flag lacks character and IMO is more representative of a cartoon drawing of a maple leaf rather than providing the character and historical importance of the nation.