"christian scammers/scandals abound"

jefferiah · October 12, 2007

how about the christian resource? (crossleft)
written by karen Armstrong?

or the other article written by the Methodist Reverend?

please address those articles then if the one you mentioned does not "suit" your purposes.

The Karen Armstrong one does not even say anything to support your argument. It is a lot of opinion about the fundies. And that's it. I am in agreement with you on some of these things Kuzadd, but not to the extent at which you are saying it. You seem to say that people who believe in the rapture want to make it happen. That these multi-millions of people world-wide all support Israel for this one reason. And that they are trying to make it happen. That is plain ridiculous.

"Demonstrating the usual right wing...."

If you can take an example of Ann Coulter and say oh this is typical right wing thinking, then I suppose Stalin displays typical left-wing behaviour.

margrace · October 12, 2007

Jefferiah did you read what Ann coulter said, she works for Fox doesn't she and it may be the speaker for the US Government. How can you not see what fundamentalism is. You don't seem to have an opinion on Ireland either and the very fundamentalist Ian Paisley who preached for his pulpit that Roman Catholics were evil and all worshipers of the Devil.

guyser · October 12, 2007

Jefferiah did you read what Ann coulter said, she works for Fox doesn't she

No...

and it may be the speaker for the US Government.

...and No.

jefferiah · October 12, 2007

Jefferiah did you read what Ann coulter said, she works for Fox doesn't she and it may be the speaker for the US Government.

Yes, and I am paid by Stephen Harper to post here. :lol:

Edited October 12, 2007 by jefferiah

jefferiah · October 12, 2007

I liked the guys response, but then, what else would anyone expect from her?

Was Ann Coulter suggesting that he should be converted to Christianity by the sword, or that she believes Christianity is the right faith and that he should be one?

I have no problem with the latter, no matter what faith a person comes from. It would only make sense that they believe that their faith is the right one, or else they would not be very faithful to it.

It's interesting you should bring her up. I was in a right-wing American chatroom not long ago where the regulars were pretty much criticizing Coulter as well. They were saying that she does things for the attention, and that she is not a mouthpiece for the rest of them. But I don't hate her, and I defended her. She does make some really good points at times, and aside from that she is not a person you always take seriously. Part of her thing is entertainment value and even comedy. She is a character. To me she is more of a comedian than anything else, but she is not an idiot either.

Edited October 12, 2007 by jefferiah

kuzadd · October 13, 2007

The Karen Armstrong one does not even say anything to support your argument. It is a lot of opinion about the fundies. And that's it. I am in agreement with you on some of these things Kuzadd, but not to the extent at which you are saying it. You seem to say that people who believe in the rapture want to make it happen. That these multi-millions of people world-wide all support Israel for this one reason. And that they are trying to make it happen. That is plain ridiculous.
"Demonstrating the usual right wing...."

If you can take an example of Ann Coulter and say oh this is typical right wing thinking, then I suppose Stalin displays typical left-wing behaviour.

She is unfortunately typical "right".

She speaks at mega-churches of christian denomination and it ain't catholic.

She is regularly featured on "right" wing websites.

She certainly represents the "right" ideology, as espoused at this time.

She is anti- "liberal" anti-choice, anti-gay, anti-muslim, etc.,

In fact she is anti everything that is secular and progressive. She is anti everything/anyone that isn't "right" and "christian"

She made the comment about wanting to "perfect jews",because in her mind the only perfect people are christians.

She thought that was perfectly OK.

you can watch her here:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=555880339

Edited October 13, 2007 by kuzadd

DogOnPorch · October 13, 2007

You give Ann Coulter too much credit.

--------------------------------------------

Yippy-yi-ayyyy...Cow Patti. She rode into town to find the man who shot her Daddy.

Yippy-yi-ayyyy........Cow Patti.

---Jim Stafford

Drea · October 13, 2007

For those who do not think the "rapture cult" is alive and well and growing.... have you NOT ever seen a sign that says "Jesus is coming, are you ready?"

That is what that means. Jesus is apparently going to come back and fix everything. Firstly the good Christians will be taken up into heaven then there will be seven years of "tribulation" (whatever THAT means). Then Jesus will come back again to get all those who have converted during the seven years. THEN... armageddon will happen (the whole planet makeover) and Jesus will rule for 1000 years.

It is in Revelations. It is used to scare people into submission. "Get sucked out (believe!) or live through the tribulation... then get sucked out (how nice of Jesus to give that second chance!) and then all will come back to live on earth in peace after the makeover. AND no one will ever die or be sick again. Hmmm, can you say o-v-e-r-p-o-p-u-l-a-t-i-o-n...

And lions will no longer eat meat.

LOL

kuzadd · October 13, 2007

You give Ann Coulter too much credit.
--------------------------------------------

Yippy-yi-ayyyy...Cow Patti. She rode into town to find the man who shot her Daddy.

Yippy-yi-ayyyy........Cow Patti.

---Jim Stafford

A quick perusal of almost every 'right' labelled website , has Ms Coulter on it. Articles etc.,

Actually I give her no credit, unfortunately the "christian right" does appear to.

kuzadd · October 13, 2007

I will credit her though for providing us with another "christian scandal"!!!!!!! :lol:

ScottSA · October 13, 2007

For those who do not think the "rapture cult" is alive and well and growing.... have you NOT ever seen a sign that says "Jesus is coming, are you ready?"
That is what that means. Jesus is apparently going to come back and fix everything. Firstly the good Christians will be taken up into heaven then there will be seven years of "tribulation" (whatever THAT means). Then Jesus will come back again to get all those who have converted during the seven years. THEN... armageddon will happen (the whole planet makeover) and Jesus will rule for 1000 years.

It is in Revelations. It is used to scare people into submission. "Get sucked out (believe!) or live through the tribulation... then get sucked out (how nice of Jesus to give that second chance!) and then all will come back to live on earth in peace after the makeover. AND no one will ever die or be sick again. Hmmm, can you say o-v-e-r-p-o-p-u-l-a-t-i-o-n...

And lions will no longer eat meat.

LOL

So these Christians are proactively killing sinners in the name of God all over the world?

Drea · October 13, 2007

So these Christians are proactively killing sinners in the name of God all over the world?

Oh no! I wasn't saying that at all. I was simply pointing out that "rapture" is part of the belief system of Christians. I was in no way shape or form comparing it to other religions. Just pointing out what it says in Revelations...that Jesus is coming -- are you ready?

My post has nothing to do with the beliefs or deeds of Islam, Buddism, Scientology or whatever. Only the information contained in King James version of the Bible (which is what the JWs use).

ALL topics on Christianity DO NOT contain reference to Islam nor a comparison to it.

this was about ONLY rapture from the point of view of a JW. .... and that sign I drive by every day "Jesus is coming.. are you ready?" sits in front of a Christian Mennonite church.

ScottSA · October 13, 2007

Oh no! I wasn't saying that at all. I was simply pointing out that "rapture" is part of the belief system of Christians. I was in no way shape or form comparing it to other religions. Just pointing out what it says in Revelations...that Jesus is coming -- are you ready?
this was about ONLY rapture from the point of view of a JW. .... and that sign I drive by every day "Jesus is coming.. are you ready?" sits in front of a Christian Mennonite church.

I suspect many Christians would argue that there's a distinction between "rapture" as you have portrayed it, and the "second coming." The first is an elaboration on the second, and I'm quite sure that if pressed on the issue, the Mennonites wouldn't insist that one day all good people will *poof* disappear and go to heaven, leaving bad people to do whatever bad people do. Were I you, I would read Thomas Merton and similar authors and leave cartoon portrayals of Christianity to...well, to the fringe sects.

Drea · October 13, 2007

What is Christ going to do at this "second coming"?

Christians always talk about people being "saved". Does this not mean they get to go to the kingdom of heaven?

JW's believe the kingdom of heaven will be on a newly minted, perfect earth. ... as in "thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

I was just set straight LOL (JW's came by) JW's don't believe in the Rapture. They believe all will be resurrected to the newly minted perfect earth.

ScottSA · October 13, 2007

What is Christ going to do at this "second coming"?
Christians always talk about people being "saved". Does this not mean they get to go to the kingdom of heaven?

JW's believe the kingdom of heaven will be on a newly minted, perfect earth. ... as in "thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

I was just set straight LOL (JW's came by) JW's don't believe in the Rapture. They believe all will be resurrected to the newly minted perfect earth.

So really all you're doing is mocking a belief, rather than showing how it's in some way harmful?

Drea · October 13, 2007

I was not trying to come across as "mocking" -- is the belief in rapture "harmful"? Probably not.

I am not a believer but have been reading up and am trying to make an effort to understand the "religious" and what makes someone a believer as opposed to someone like me who does not believe.

I know in the past I have slammed all believers, but I am willing to listen to what makes those folks tick.

Read just the other day that Jesus laughed when his disciples pointed to the sky looking for god. He said "the kingdom of god resides WITHIN you".

It is interesting to read about Jesus if you look at him as a man rather than a "divinity". He was a great man, trying to teach those around him to accept one another. The only way to the "Kingdom of God" (peacefulness) is to follow his teachings. "You cannot reach the Kingdom, except through me" (his teachings of tolerance).

When hubby gets back from Rona (renovating we are!) I will ask him about Jesus' beliefs and religion (he has read a good number of books about Jesus' beliefs, etc. Jesus was not a Christian)

until then!

sharkman · October 13, 2007

What is Christ going to do at this "second coming"?
Christians always talk about people being "saved". Does this not mean they get to go to the kingdom of heaven?

JW's believe the kingdom of heaven will be on a newly minted, perfect earth. ... as in "thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

I was just set straight LOL (JW's came by) JW's don't believe in the Rapture. They believe all will be resurrected to the newly minted perfect earth.

I would suspect you need to be set straight on Revelations as well, your version sounds like Jesus will be using an elevator to get up and down so much.

at any rate, people's belief's are not a problem, it's their deeds that get them into trouble. Wasn't it YOUR MOM who believes aliens came to earth way back when? And you sounded like it's not that bad an idea when we last discussed it. How is that any less far out there than a rapture, which you like to poke a stick at?

Edited October 13, 2007 by sharkman

Drea · October 13, 2007

poke poke! /kidding

I am trying not to poke at it but understand it. Understand the thinking behind it.

Yes we discussed the possiblity that god(s) was an alien. We discussed all kinds of things. Open minded she was.

Personally I do not beleive in god as an actual entity. Perhaps the energy that surrounds us, but not an actual "guy"...

jefferiah · October 13, 2007

She is unfortunately typical "right".
She speaks at mega-churches of christian denomination and it ain't catholic.

She is regularly featured on "right" wing websites.

She certainly represents the "right" ideology, as espoused at this time.

She is anti- "liberal" anti-choice, anti-gay, anti-muslim, etc.,

In fact she is anti everything that is secular and progressive. She is anti everything/anyone that isn't "right" and "christian"

She made the comment about wanting to "perfect jews",because in her mind the only perfect people are christians.

She thought that was perfectly OK.

you can watch her here:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=555880339

Yep and Che is typically left judging by the popularity of his t-shirts among them.

In Christianity there is a belief that in the "future" Christ's followers will be perfected. In her own words she referred to herself as a sinner. So your assertion that she considered herself perfect (while Jews are not) is refuted by the snippet you posted. Whether you agree with this idea or not, it seems perfectly natural to me for a person to promote their own religion over another religion. Much different if she were to start force converting. To be sure, she has had quotes about how we ought to force convert etc etc. But I don't think anyone thinks she is really serious. She also says things like "I dont support social programs, but I would fully support a subsidized course which teaches logic to liberals." But I also don't think she is the type of person who should be speaking at churches perhaps. So there you raise a good point. But you have failed to show that millions and millions of rapture cultists are actively trying to make it happen. You have an "email". Whoop dee doodle.

I have spoken to Jews online who have said that Jesus is a false messiah, etc etc. And that is completely natural. All faiths are decidedly very different. Ecumenicalism only applies if you do a pretty thorough editing job on each religion. So if they are all not the same and we all decide that we feel one of them is right, it certainly stands to reason that we feel that others are wrong. A Jewish person cannot say Krishna is Lord. A Christian cannot believe that Christ is Lord and he is also a fake. If you believe one, you have discounted another.

Edited October 13, 2007 by jefferiah

margrace · October 14, 2007

poke poke! /kidding
I am trying not to poke at it but understand it. Understand the thinking behind it.

Yes we discussed the possiblity that god(s) was an alien. We discussed all kinds of things. Open minded she was.

Personally I do not beleive in god as an actual entity. Perhaps the energy that surrounds us, but not an actual "guy"...

Yes Drea, God is everything.God is part of everything including every human being, some we would rather not have but there you have it. So we can't be sinners because we are part of God and God is not a sinner is he.

betsy · October 14, 2007

now I usually just use the title of the article from the news story from the press, but, I thought in light of the allowance of the title wrt islam, this was an appropriate title, and actually is correct in it description christian scammers and scandals.

Yes, it is an appropriate title indeed.

Some who call themselves Christians do not truly practice the teachings of Christ. They are in it for the money or the power.

Just like Mohammad who call himself the "prophet of Allah" (but is said to never have made any prophecies), apparently did not truly practice the true Islam faith. Furthermore, he is said to have made some changes in the Quran.

Just shows you, every religion have their own scammers.

Edited October 14, 2007 by betsy

jennie · October 14, 2007

Mind pointing out where he said we should do it in the name of God, or because Chaves is not a Christian? I don't know if you really understand how silly you look trying to equivocate like this. Christians don't kill people these days because of God. They just don't, even if you can dig up some exception to the rule. Islam does. Islam kills each other and anyone else who gets in the way, because of Islam. I can post another body count of Islam murder in the name of religion over the last three months, if you want, and invite you to post a corresponding list of Christian murders, committed in the name of Jesus, but I promise you my list will be as a planet to your dirtclod. We all know it. Except perhaps you.

Scott, we are still waiting for your riding by riding election results!! Perhaps you should hold off on this next 'information project' until you finish one.

Melanie_ · October 14, 2007

Didn't Muhammad found the Muslim religion? And write the Qu'ran?

Minnesota State University Museum

The history of Islam centers around one person, Muhammad (also spelled Muhammed or Mohammed). He was born around 570 A.D. and was raised by his extended family after the death of his parents. As he grew, he became dissatisfied with polytheism and came to believe in one God, Allah. He began to have religious visions around age 40. During these visions, Muhammad would receive "messages" or "revelations" from Allah. He would memorize them and teach them to his followers. These visions are now recorded in the Qur'an (or Koran). Muhammad continued to receive these visions and messages until his death in 632 A.D.

jennie · October 14, 2007

Yes, it is an appropriate title indeed.
Some who call themselves Christians do not truly practice the teachings of Christ. They are in it for the money or the power.

Just like Mohammad who call himself the "prophet of Allah" (but is said to never have made any prophecies), apparently did not truly practice the true Islam faith. Furthermore, he is said to have made some changes in the Quran.

Just shows you, every religion have their own scammers.

As I recall, Christ didn't practice Old Testament Christianity either, and certainly made a few changes to the Bible too! do you consider him a scammer as you painted Mohammed?