"christian scammers/scandals abound"

[kuzadd]

now I usually just use the title of the article from the news story from the press, but, I thought in light of the allowance of the title wrt islam, this was an appropriate title, and actually is correct in it description christian scammers and scandals.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j9XJtq8...mPuBFQD8S38D9G0

TULSA, Okla. (AP) — Twenty years ago, televangelist Oral Roberts said he was reading a spy novel when God appeared to him and told him to raise $8 million for Roberts' university, or else he would be "called home."

anyway....................

Now, his son, Oral Roberts University President Richard Roberts, says God is speaking again, telling him to deny lurid allegations in a lawsuit that threatens to engulf this 44-year-old Bible Belt college in scandal.

lunacy runs in the family, or the ability and knowledge to run scams and dupe gullible followers.

sorry for the long list.......anyway the gist of it is:

Richard Roberts is accused of illegal involvement in a local political campaign and lavish spending at donors' expense, including numerous home remodeling projects, use of the university jet for his daughter's senior trip to the Bahamas, and a red Mercedes convertible and a Lexus SUV for his wife, Lindsay.

She (his wife) is accused of dropping tens of thousands of dollars on clothes, awarding nonacademic scholarships to friends of her children and sending scores of text messages on university-issued cell phones to people described in the lawsuit as "underage males."

The allegations are contained in a lawsuit filed Tuesday by three former professors. They sued ORU and Roberts, alleging they were wrongfully dismissed after reporting the school's involvement in a local political race.

Richard Roberts, according to the suit, asked a professor in 2005 to use his students and university resources to aid a county commissioner's bid for Tulsa mayor. Such involvement would violate state and federal law because of the university's nonprofit status. Up to 50 students are alleged to have worked on the campaign.

The professors also said their dismissals came after they turned over to the board of regents a copy of a report documenting moral and ethical lapses on the part of Roberts and his family. The internal document was prepared by Stephanie Cantese, Richard Roberts' sister-in-law, according to the lawsuit.

An ORU student repairing Cantese's laptop discovered the document and later provided a copy to one of the professors.

It details dozens of alleged instances of misconduct. Among them:

_ A longtime maintenance employee was fired so that an underage male friend of Mrs. Roberts could have his position. ( so Mrs Roberts like the young guys eh?)

_ Mrs. Roberts — who is a member of the board of regents and is referred to as ORU's "first lady" on the university's Web site — frequently had cell-phone bills of more than $800 per month, with hundreds of text messages sent between 1 a.m. to 3 a.m. to "underage males who had been provided phones at university expense."

_ The university jet was used to take one daughter and several friends on a senior trip to Orlando, Fla., and the Bahamas. The $29,411 trip was billed to the ministry as an "evangelistic function of the president."

_ Mrs. Roberts spent more than $39,000 at one Chico's clothing store alone in less than a year, and had other accounts in Texas and California. She also repeatedly said, "As long as I wear it once on TV, we can charge it off." The document cites inconsistencies in clothing purchases and actual usage on TV.

_ Mrs. Roberts was given a white Lexus SUV and a red Mercedes convertible by ministry donors. (generous donors?)

_ University and ministry employees are regularly summoned to the Roberts' home to do the daughters' homework.

_ The university and ministry maintain a stable of horses for exclusive use by the Roberts' children.

_ The Roberts' home has been remodeled 11 times in the past 14 years.

Edited October 9, 2007 by kuzadd

[ScottSA]

now I usually just use the title of the article from the news story from the press, but, I thought in light of the allowance of the title wrt islam, this was an appropriate title, and actually is correct in it description christian scammers and scandals.

Excellent! Feel better now that you've tried to draw a moral equivalency between, let's see..."illegal involvement in a local political campaign and lavish spending at donors' expense," and several hundred murders in the name of Islam around the globe each week? Doesn't it kinda make you feel on top o' the world?

[kuzadd]

Excellent! Feel better now that you've tried to draw a moral equivalency between, let's see..."illegal involvement in a local political campaign and lavish spending at donors' expense," and several hundred murders in the name of Islam around the globe each week? Doesn't it kinda make you feel on top o' the world?

no moral equivalency in actions, just in title useage, cause if it's good enough for you scottsa, it's ok for me, or anyone else.

RE: murders around the world and moral equivalency:

The US has killed more people in illegal wars/covert wars and terrorism etc., in the past 20 yrs, then several hundred murders(allegedly) a week.

Just the facts scottsa, just the facts.

I know that's hard for you!

BTW: these guys are scammers, and they dupe the gullible!

In the name of "god"

[ScottSA]

no moral equivalency in actions, just in title useage, cause if it's good enough for you scottsa, it's ok for me, or anyone else.

RE: murders around the world and moral equivalency:

The US has killed more people in illegal wars/covert wars and terrorism etc., in the past 20 yrs, then several hundred murders(allegedly) a week.

Just the facts scottsa, just the facts.

I know that's hard for you!

BTW: these guys are scammers, and they dupe the gullible!

In the name of "god"

Try to concentrate for a moment. First, your article is not about the US killing people, it's about a Christian caught with his hand in a cookie jar. Second, the US does not kill people in the name of Christianity. Islam does, every day, across the globe, day in and day out. Those are the facts.

Edited October 9, 2007 by ScottSA

[kuzadd]

Try to concentrate for a moment. First, your article is not about the US killing people, it's about a Christian caught with his hand in a cookie jar. Second, the US does not kill people in the name of Christianity. Islam does, every day, across the globe, day in and day out. Those are the facts.

You should try to concentrate:

My article is about a "christian family/dynasty" helping themselves to donors money and abusing those donors.

Hence the correct title "christian scammers and scandal abound"

They are christians and it is a christian U, they are scammers and it is a scandal.

Your nonsensical title is a stereotype, about nothing at all

"Islam the sneaky buggers"

Nothing at all, just derogatory name calling of an entire group, there is nothing about crime, the entire title is a slam, as was the entire thread on your part.

If it was about crime the title should have made note of that.

At least my title, was somewhat descriptive of the actual situation.

Are you denying these people are scammers?

Or that this is a scandal?

Sorry can't deny that!

Edited October 9, 2007 by kuzadd

[Canadian Blue]

Try to concentrate for a moment. First, your article is not about the US killing people, it's about a Christian caught with his hand in a cookie jar. Second, the US does not kill people in the name of Christianity. Islam does, every day, across the globe, day in and day out. Those are the facts.

No Christian's simply kill people in the name of liberty. As well I believe that some Christian's massacred hundreds of people in Lebanon in the 80's.

Why don't we just get rid religion altogether, wouldn't the world be a better place then.

However I'm considering writing up a topic on how the Dutch seek to destroy the west. Everyone needs someone to hate.

Edited October 9, 2007 by Canadian Blue

[ScottSA]

No Christian's simply kill people in the name of liberty. As well I believe that some Christian's massacred hundreds of people in Lebanon in the 80's.

Why don't we just get rid religion altogether, wouldn't the world be a better place then.

You can't seem to grasp the very obvious...Christians rarely kill people in the name of Christianity. When you claim they kill people in the name of "liberty", you are conceding the point. The fact that one (1) instance from almost 30 years ago stands out is because of it's infrequency. That massacre is dwarfed by any good three month period of Islamic killing in the name of Islam since, and in any event it was for political reasons. Dissemble as you will, Christian preachers simply don't make a habit of calling for the deaths of non-Christians. Hell, it's hard enough to find one who will openly criticize other religions from the pulpit.

[Canadian Blue]

Well your talking about people killing in the name of Islam, but are you including the battles between the Shiite and Sunni militias in Iraq. If thats the case then that isn't Muslims killing people in the name of Islam, its more or less akin to the battles we've seen in history between protestants and catholics. Incidentally the clusterfuck now collectively known as Iraq was set off by the American invasion and the immense lack of planning on the part of the Bush administration.

By the way ScottSA, since you have such a strong dislike of Islam what is your final solution to the problems we face in the Middle East?

Dissemble as you will, Christian preachers simply don't make a habit of calling for the deaths of non-Christians. Hell, it's hard enough to find one who will openly criticize other religions from the pulpit.

Didn't Jerry Falwell blame gays, pagans, feminists, and abortion doctors for 9/11? Didn't Pat Robertson openly call for the assassination of a democratically elected leader? One only has to look at the Westboro Baptist Church to see hatred coming from christians. If you want to look at history, the Klan was largely made up of white christian men, and revived by a christian preacher. If your problem is with Islamic fundamentalists, then why take out Saddam Hussein who was for the most part secular and in fact had Christian's in his government.

I have a problem with fundamentalists in general whether they be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. So instead of calling all Muslims evil, why not instead side with progressive Muslims to help defeat Islamic fundamentalists everywhere.

[M.Dancer]

1)Didn't Jerry Falwell blame gays, pagans, feminists, and abortion doctors for 9/11? 2)Didn't Pat Robertson openly call for the assassination of a democratically elected leader? 3)One only has to look at the Westboro Baptist Church to see hatred coming from christians.

1) He said that God removed his protection because of the:ACLU, abortionists, feminists, gays, and the People For the American Way. I don't recall him mentioning pagans.

2) Pat Robertson never called an assassintation. He did call for his supporters to pray for God to remove the judges.

One justice is 83-years-old, another has cancer and another has a heart condition. Would it not be possible for God to put it in the minds of these three judges that the time has come to retire?"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/15/...ain563247.shtml

3) And once you have looked at Westboro, how long will it take to find another, and another? Westboro is an anomaly, not the norm.

[Canadian Blue]

2) Pat Robertson never called an assassintation. He did call for his supporters to pray for God to remove the judges.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4177664.stm

[M.Dancer]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4177664.stm

I sit corrected, you're right. I forgot about Chavez, he's so easy to forget....I was thinking about Robertson's other domestic blunder, the supreme court.

[ScottSA]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4177664.stm

Mind pointing out where he said we should do it in the name of God, or because Chaves is not a Christian? I don't know if you really understand how silly you look trying to equivocate like this. Christians don't kill people these days because of God. They just don't, even if you can dig up some exception to the rule. Islam does. Islam kills each other and anyone else who gets in the way, because of Islam. I can post another body count of Islam murder in the name of religion over the last three months, if you want, and invite you to post a corresponding list of Christian murders, committed in the name of Jesus, but I promise you my list will be as a planet to your dirtclod. We all know it. Except perhaps you.

[kuzadd]

oh Pat Robertson, another christian scammer/scandalizer.

yeah!

oh I forgot, he is a "businessman"

and he has had some beautiful dealings in Africa,btw.

Edited October 9, 2007 by kuzadd

[kuzadd]

isn't it weird?

Christians allegedly don't kill for God, or so scottsa claims, though what has been going on in the US lately "onward christian soldiers" that debateable.

But we can

kill for "freedom"

kill for "democracy"

kill for "liberty"

and that is all good right ,scottsa???

Well it all sounds "good"

what's the diff?

No matter the reason, IDEOLOGY, many, many people are DEAD!

Bringing freedom and democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan, as if that was ever true.

Edited October 9, 2007 by kuzadd

[ScottSA]

isn't it weird?

Christians allegedly don't kill for God, or so scottsa claims, though what has been going on in the US lately "onward christian soldiers" that debateable.

But we can

kill for freedom

kill for democracy

kill for liberty

and that is all good right ,scottsa

what's the diff?

If you don't understand the difference, then you don't understand this whole debate.

[jazzer]

"... it's about a Christian caught with his hand in a cookie jar...."

Getting back on track, this isn't "just" any Chrisitian. He is the son of one the most prominent evangelists in the country. He is also the President of the prestigious Oral Roberts University. While it is only alleged that he engaged in a wide range of improprieties, if true he joins the growing ranks with Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggert, Ted Haggard, Dick Dewert, Cardinal Bernard F. Law, not to mention the pedophile Priests around the world.

[kuzadd]

If you don't understand the difference, then you don't understand this whole debate.

What you don't understand is there is no difference.

ideology is ideology,

windowdressing isn't going to change that.

The US brought no freedom to Iraq, or Afghanistan, that was never then intention, that was just the sale pitch for the gullible.

[ScottSA]

What you don't understand is there is no difference.

No, you're wrong. The fact that you don't understand why doesn't make you right.

[kuzadd]

Getting back on track, this isn't "just" any Chrisitian. He is the son of one the most prominent evangelists in the country. He is also the President of the prestigious Oral Roberts University. While it is only alleged that he engaged in a wide range of improprieties, if true he joins the growing ranks with Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggert, Ted Haggard, Dick Dewert, Cardinal Bernard F. Law, not to mention the pedophile Priests around the world.

But jazzer, they do it all in the name of "god" doncha know?

Cause "God told" him and his father both, GOD SPOKE to them

Richard Roberts, says God is speaking again, telling him to deny lurid allegations.

God spoke to him, his dad, GWB, Pat Robertson, yikes!!!

[kuzadd]

No, you're wrong. The fact that you don't understand why doesn't make you right.

No actually I am right, ideology is ideology.

You just can't accept that simple fact.

Ideology.:a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture b : a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group, or culture c : the integrated assertions, theories and aims that constitute a sociopolitical program

religion

democracy

ideology

Edited October 9, 2007 by kuzadd

[ScottSA]

But jazzer, they do it all in the name of "god" doncha know?

Cause "God told" him and his father both, GOD SPOKE to them

Richard Roberts, says God is speaking again, telling him to deny lurid allegations.

God spoke to him, his dad, GWB, Pat Robertson, yikes!!!

But you're just making that up. He's not claiming God told him to do it, and he's not claiming he did it in the name of God. In fact I'll bet he'll arrive at the usual tearful apology of Christian preachers and cheating presidents when this kind of thing happens. What you won't see him doing is thundering at the pulpit for the death of Jews and assorted infidel and claiming God told him to do it. What you also won't see newspapers across the globe celebrating his actions as truly Christian and a beacon unto the world.

[Canadian Blue]

Mind pointing out where he said we should do it in the name of God, or because Chaves is not a Christian? I don't know if you really understand how silly you look trying to equivocate like this. Christians don't kill people these days because of God. They just don't, even if you can dig up some exception to the rule. Islam does. Islam kills each other and anyone else who gets in the way, because of Islam. I can post another body count of Islam murder in the name of religion over the last three months, if you want, and invite you to post a corresponding list of Christian murders, committed in the name of Jesus, but I promise you my list will be as a planet to your dirtclod. We all know it. Except perhaps you.

I'm assuming you'll post the body count from Iraq. All that shows is how wrongheaded and mismanaged the American invasion of Iraq was. I also believe that the overall civilian deaths from the mission are now in the tens of thousands, or even the hundreds of thousands.

When you reference all, I believe you only refer to the few on here who blindly follow your jingoist leanings.

What you won't see him doing is thundering at the pulpit for the death of Jews and assorted infidel and claiming God told him to do it. What you also won't see newspapers across the globe celebrating his actions as truly Christian and a beacon unto the world.

No, he simply continues to rant about some "New World Order".

[ScottSA]

I'm assuming you'll post the body count from Iraq. All that shows is how wrongheaded and mismanaged the American invasion of Iraq was. I also believe that the overall civilian deaths from the mission are now in the tens of thousands, or even the hundreds of thousands.

No, I was thinking of posting the body count by Muslims in the name of islam for the last three months...not some other reason...for the last three months. Would you like me to? I can wait while you dig up some counterexamples of deaths by Christians in the name of Jesus. Let me know when you're ready. The only thing I ask is that you keep it to the last couple decades or so.

[Canadian Blue]

So basically you're going to reference the body count in Iraq, which is primarily fighting between Shiite and Sunni militias to show why the body count from "Islam" is so high. If you are going to do that then also show what the body count has been due to collateral damage from the previous decade due to the conflicts in Iraq, Israel, Lebanon, and the West Bank.

[margrace]

No, I was thinking of posting the body count by Muslims in the name of islam for the last three months...not some other reason...for the last three months. Would you like me to? I can wait while you dig up some counterexamples of deaths by Christians in the name of Jesus. Let me know when you're ready. The only thing I ask is that you keep it to the last couple decades or so.

Scott you are losing this argument, there have always been Christians killing each other and other people. What do you call the crusades, the Spanish inquisition and other items of history.. Better give it up. Read your history.