Army Guy

Well poser, stop making claims that you can't prove or are false and i'll play nice. So which is it poser, you've been preaching the Afganis blame NATO for all thier problems, now your blaming the Pakistanis, are you shifting directions or slowly coming around. Your making a big deal out of nothing, thier are no freedom of speach issues in the military at all, in fact most CO's incourage soldiers to talk to the media, but to keep from commenting on issues they have no knowledge of or were not involved with. Infact the line you've highlighted is the reporters opinon his attempt to lead the readers some where else, twisting the soldiers words or in this case mislead the soldiers comments. No where does it say that the Public relations officer cut the sappers comments or edited his comments. The reporter just added his two cents worth because that is what he percieved, not what was said. There is not many reporters here that soldiers will not talk to because of just that. You've yet to prove that in any of your posts, infact you've proven to be a very unreliable source of info on just about everything. Stick to topics you know. As for forcing military and cilvilian employees being told to attend a function, Are you joking, Last time i checked the military pays thier wages and if they want them to attend a function on work time then they go, end of story. As for those that are going to whine and complain about having to go to a function and support those that they may never see again, i say there is the unemployment line, they've got the wrong job... You of all people know there is plenty of functions that military members are not given a choice to attend, Nov 11 is one, showing up to say good bye to comrads is another...But then again to the uneducated in military matters there must be a story there. When there is truely not...

I think one has to draw a line in the sand some where, one would have to agree that a dead tim hortons employee or god forbid a Canadian icon such as Rick Mercer would not carry the same leverage as one dead Committee member. and the countless dead soldiers that died protecting them. One would also have to ask what exactly would they be reporting on that has not already been reported...Whats next an eviromental committee, what about the mayors from all the soldiers home towns, where do we draw the line...at what piont do we say enough is enough... Are they going to report on something new ? or is it just a photo op ? what possiable facts could they possiable find that have not already been uncovered by the governments of the day. Lib, PC, or cons. I think O Conner made the right choice, why give the enemy a chance at victory, the risks are not worth the rewards.

Catchme "AKA POSER" I still do not understand why you continue to spread your poison about afgan when your facts have either been misleading or just false. You know absolutily nothing about this topic, and your views are distorted by half trurths or lies. I've made it my new mission in life to expose you for the POSER that you are. Nobody i repeat nobody that has spent 5 min in the military could be as un inform as you have. Save your self some embrassment now and atleast goggle your info... Is that true your now claiming to been in the Armour Regt...God help us all. Your reading the material but not getting the full gist of the articals, the link below is from DND new and mission briefs, it will explain in detail what we are doing in Afgan then and now. Canadian military forces have been involved in combat operations since we have hit the ground... DND page This has been explained over and over again, we are doing combat, humanitarian, and polictical missions all at the same time hence why there is a Battle group, and a PRT group. we have been doing this for some time now, and have not changed our mission despite what you may think.

weaponeer: I wish you luck, and may your ROTO have better luck than ours. The only advice i can give you is soak up every medical lecture you can, and make sure you have it down pat..and ask alot of questions, and one last bit of advice, buy some kit, drop bags for large medi packs, and another for extra ammo, Pet has alot of good kit available at the kit shops, buy it here in Canada or you'll pay thru the ass over in Afgan.. Never leave camp with less than 12 to 15 mags of 5.56, and carry a pistol with extra mags as well...the more ammo the better...

Poser: I don't think you get the piont, Canadian public opinion is effecting the outcome of this war period. Not because your footing the bill, because the Canadian public can't make up thier damn minds what they want to do..A war that was supported by the majority of Canadians at the start, and is now being influenced by poor government coverage, poor media coverage, and lobby groups, or peace groups that have no real idea on the situation on the ground. Combine all of that with the opostion using it to grab votes. I find it ironic that your opinion matters because you pay taxes, and yet soldiers opinions are disregarded for no reason, and the last time i checked i did pay taxes, and i'm allowed to vote. And while your only contribution to this mission is a small protion of your tax bill, every soldier also puts his life on the line every day and still his opions are disregarded or brushed off as government heresay. I'll repeat my offer, not happy with the mission then send me your address and i'll give you back your tax contributution that is being used to support this mission. I'm not suggesting doing it for our moral, i'm saying if you had the balls to agree with the government to send us over here in the first place then you should show some conviction to see the mission thru...It cost you a few bucks to do so, while it may cost soldiers thier lives and yet they are still supporting the mission, WHY? Why out of Afgan, you have a more noble mission for us, perhaps we can try them all until we find one more to your liking. No thanks we have a mission , one that we have already heavily invested into, and we are not about to give up and go home because it does not live up to your standards, because Canadian soldiers are carrying guns with real bullets, and are actually taking lives. Protecting our lives, NO sir, you are putting them in harms way, by supporting the same objectives as the enemy. As for not doing what we came here to do , you need to check the first roto in here ask the PPCLI what they were doing when they got here. Our primary task was to hunt down them taliban scumbags and send them to allah, The government made this very clear, this was our job, not serving tea, not handing out teddy bears but taking the fight to the taliban. Spurious, really, Name one battle the Taliban have won, NATO has beaten them in every engagement. They know they can not defeat NATO in conventional fighting. But they are not fighting a tactical war they are fighting stratgic war. That war is being fought on your TV set, and in the minds of every Canadian. they know convince the people that this war is unwinniable, or bush quest for world power, what ever, once they convince you to change your minds, winning battles does not matter, when the people demand thier troops go home, governments will listen or fad into the sunset, giving them the victory they are looking for. So it's not us that are lossing this war it's you. Taliban numbers are not increasing, infact they are decreasing, the area that operation madusa covered is almost devoid of taliban how to you explain that, infact recently a Canadian media team went back into the area with out a miliatry escort, and reported those facts...how do you explain that.

Poser: You have this incredable knack for making a story where one does not exist. you story is so wrong on so many levels , but then again you know that being an ex military person. You give the impresion that our entire coast is protected by one ship, are we that guliable to think that for your defense buck that is all you get...Give me a break... What about our coastal radar, our coastal patrol ves, or maritime patrol aircraft, not to mention our airforce assets...nobody even mentioned those...what are they doing are they tied up as well "NOPE"...story does not say...it just what you don't say that speaks volumes....So is it really a story or a grab for headlines. Your story is about a fisheries patrol, you know patrolling our coastal fishing grounds for fishing violations. it says nothing about sovereignty patrols you know the ones they patrol and defend our coast line with. You forget to say anything about that, but if you did it would not have the same impact..we need that finger waving in the wind pionting at the CPC "shouting you guys blew it" I'll tell you who's to blame it's the Canadian tax payer who should be ashamed for allowing our government to put our military in thier current state.

I've been here for almost 5 months now and soon it will be our turn to rotate home. I've continuly posted on this forum because i thought i could bring a soldiers perspective to things happening here in Afgan, but instead found myself even more limited in what i could say or post due to Operation Security, but even with one arm tied behind my back i thought i could convince a few non believers into seeing what good we are doing here. But i was wrong, those that are again'st this mission will not be swayed, for many reasons, Our government has done a horriable job of getting our accomplishments out, the media for the most part are not telling the whole story, yes there is a few exceptions of reporters that have gone outside the wire with us, they have told the story , they have told the story first hand, but those are the exception ,the rare exception...when the bulk of the reporters here have not even been outside the wire. The press coverage has been so bad lately i've stopped downloading it on to my laptop to share with the rest of the platoon, because it was effecting moral. I don't think alot of Canadians know just how thier public opinion effects how this conflict is being won or lost. Nor do they care one way or another. Just as long as they have a cause or something to piont there fingers at , "this is bushes war, this war is unwinniable, what ever the cause. What is frustrating to soldiers is to watch all thier daily sacrafices being slowly eroded over what the public in Canada believe is happening over in Afgan. What i do know is in the weeks to come i'll be leaving Afgan to come home, knowing in the back of my mind that myself and my section have made postive changes here in Afgan, Changes that we are proud of, that we have done everything within our power to accomplish the mission that our nation has given us. The same Nation who's slim majority has forgotten why they sent us over there to start with. So when we all look back thru history let it clearly be shown that our nations military had done everything it was asked of and more. I've added the below link because it descrides a soldiers opinion better than i could. Canadian public opinion does matter, and it does reflect on the enemies tactics, and the lives of Canadian soldiers. And is starting to effect the moral of our soldiers... My Webpage

Yes we are seeing some fighting , nothing on the scale they promised. Nor do they have to win any tactical battles, they are fighting on a strategic level, one in which they are winning at this time , if they can convince Canadian citizens that the situation is hopeless, they know we will pull out our troops hence NATO will start to crumble and they will be granted thier victory, and allowed to run havoc in Afgan again.

Now here is a worth while cause, a bunch of scumbags willing to kill over what, english signs now there is a cause.... Is this a major problem in Quebec, is there that much friction between the french and english.. This needs to be taken serious and quickly, hoax or not our government needs to send a strong message, terrorist activites will not be tolerated. you will be hunted down and punished, Or anybody with an axe to grind is going to start sending letters in with threats.

jdobbin: I agree, but body counts do sell papers don't they. Canadian military does not put much stock into body counts, and most of the time uses rough est, as that is how the public judges sucess. But below is an example of achieving security. My Webpage We will see come spring, The Taliban has promised to continue the fight thru the winter, but has failed to produce any real solid offensive. And with things changing in the south they may be forced to change thier tactics again.

Madmax: One could ask the Canadian military the same question, how long has it been that we have been trying to train an extra 5000 troops. Training an effective military force capable of operating together, in large numbers is very difficult. made in more difficult when there is no infra structure, or the pay levels are low, or there is no equipment, or what is available is of poor quality. Add to that, The fact that the whole method of insurgent warfare is entirily different than counter insurgent operations. Poser: It's not that funny at all actually, alot of this Afganis soldiers can not read or write, and they are learning how to soldier in actual combat conditions, more like learn it or die trying. as i said before they are excellant insurgent soldiers, but they are being trained for counter insurgent operations, two differnt beasts altogether. Don't let a few film clips fool you into thinking they are inept they have learned thier trade from 27 years of living it day in day out, and are quit capable of killing very effectivly..

normanchateau: Why is it not worthy of our support, one has to ask the following questions before cementing ones opinion. The main reason we got involved was to remove the Taliban leadership, that part is done for the most part, next was to get an elected government installed up and running. We have no say in who they the Afganis people elect, the only chioce we had was "would we support that government...and we choose yes.. It is easy to critise that government, for it's corruption, for it's religous values, and for the way they handle things..many of thier decissions do not come up to western values or ideals. But we need to remember that we can not compare the two systems, or the fact that the country has to rebuild from the ground up after 27 years of continueous warfare and the current government has only been doing that for a short period of time. And has made great strides forward. something that gets lost is the accomplishments, and the only things that get brought up are it's short comings..I wonder just how far along Canada was in it's first 10 years as a nation, and what BS they had to contend with..The wild west comes to mind. Islamic law will always have a say in thier government and values, that we will have to just live with, will it eventually tone down, i'm sure it will as the standard of living improves..but right now they still have roving bands of terrorist killing or terrorizing the people. And security is thier number one pri...So yes some of thier laws are going to seem tough, restrictive. Those Noble Canadians that are being sacrificed know what the cost of peace is, they don't die on command,nor are they robots, they are living ,and breathing and free thinking Canadians, they are just like you and the rest on this board. only they have access to more info, and are actually there on the ground, seeing and smelling and experiancing it first hand..If they can decide that this mission is a worth while cause, knowing that, thier decision may put thier lives in danger for a longer period of time. That has got to say something, perhaps the question that the rest of Canada should be asking is "why are they willing to risk thier lives for these people?".. If it was to preserve Canadian interests then why not, "highly unlikely" but why not. Afgan is a differnent case, NATO did not have to ask us, we were responding because the US was attacked and we were living up to our agreement. But in your case if NATO "asked" because we were not fulfilling any need or agreement then i would say we as a nation would have to carefully examine the situation. Something that was supposily done by the liberals.

Catchme: If you are not concerned about what we think about you why are you editting your posts to cover your ass. But even with your edit, your info is still not correct, Reserves made up only a small percentage of the total force infact they were considered a rare commodity on the cambat arms side, infact for the most part a soldier had to be TQ 5 qual to even get over to germany. Yes it was a good posting, The airforce had a complete fighter wing based in Germany exact numbers i'm not sure,mostly based out of Baden, but the army had by far the most number of military personal stationed in Lahr germany with the RCR or PPCLI based in Baden. the army portion made up a complete war time strength Brigade group, well over 6000 pers. All our germany personal were part of a much larger NATO force who's sole purpose was to defend europe from the Warsaw pact forces, and to accomplish that we were on a constant war readiness posture.. not doing observer or peacekeeping duties but ready to defend europe at a moments notice.... Then why would you doctor your post if not only to cover your ass, why have you consistantly provided this forum with False info, your actions and info has lead me to belief that you are a "poser", a wanna be, someone who is taking advantage of the good deeds and sacrafices of those that have served this great nation..for nothing more than to give yourself some credibility. nothing about what you have said in ref to us being primarily peacekeepers is true, most of your facts about operations about afgan are false, and your facts on germany are just made up, It is the simple info that every soldier should know or atleast know where to find that info that is missing in your case... Infact you never even bothered to goggle your info just made it up.. Yes there is alot of reasons why military members speak out again'st the war, what is yours? perhaps you can give us one news article in one major paper where serving members have spoken out again'st our current mission. infact find one former soldier that has served in afgan that is speaking out about afgan. My piont is that it is rare, Soldiers have come back missing limbs or have had thier lives changed forever are speaking for the mission, and continue thier support for thier comrads..Many are volunteering to return to afgan despite all of the dangers, not because we crave the adrenline rush but because we know we can make a difference here, that we are making a difference here and our sacrafice is worth it...but that does not speak to you, our opinons do not count, or we've been brainwashed.

Madmax: I'm on the main camp for some rear duties, got the night shift so it's pretty quite and got lots of time to burn. Poser: Concern for our well being or maybe it's just that it furthers cause to have us home..Your not an NDP peacenik are you, with another mission in mind ? you have yet to prove that your a former anything, infact numerous times you have proven anything but. even an ex plumber should know something about plumbing. All you've suggested is that thier is going to be an oil shortage, and those with oil will have power...now that is news, and has been for years, but what is crazy is you tieing it to Afgan, what was even more crazy was the pipelines and pumping station around our camp, only proving that you are making this up or your sources are full of shiiittt. As for our credibility we've already been judged by our actions, and sorry to burst your bubble but the Canadian people kind of like us....And deep down inside your tinfoil hat i know you like us to... Actually in our sector poppy eradication is not that big of a deal, in fact most of it is being carried out by afgan troops or police. As combat operations that have kept us pretty busy...But if the UN est that the profit from poppies out of afgan is only 2.5 bil a year, and finicial assistance for the country is well over that mark would it not make sense for the Afgan government to curb it's drug dealings for risk of losing it's aid.

Catchme: Thats kind of hard since the Afgan operation is dry with the exception of the very odd occasion of 2 beers per man. I was ref to all drugs, be it pot or hard drugs. .. What attitude would that be the battlefield is no place for drugs because it may get me or my section killed or the attitude if your sick get help which one i'm confused. You are on crack i'm now convinced that you have never served a day in your life and if you did it was on some secluded airforce base. Germany was a NATO mission, one that was to respond to any warsaw pact invasion that never came, which meant that every unit there was on high readiness and at full war TO&E, not some peacekeeping mission. that meant there was armed aircraft on the tarmac and live air defense systems active at all times and the brigades war ammo for it's fighting troops readily available sounds like peace keeping to me... tours of duty were min of 3 years with some lasting as long as 5 or more years. this info is nothing new even available on google if you had bother to check...or do you make this up as you go...How many lies do we have to catch you in before you give up this charade. i hear by brand you your new nik "poser" everyone for say "Aye" poser it is...

Your joking right ? Again your joking ?

Madmax: Perhaps i'm missing something here max, excuse me but it's very early here, and i've been at this all night. i've reread your posts and i'm still not sure if we are on the same page, can you sort me out.

Catchme: I did not suggest that our country does not show our military graditude, i was being sacrastic with you ensuring you that our government did not show that much graditude upon a soldiers death. And yes many people do have more important jobs in running our nation, most are payed very well but perhaps you could list all those that have unlimited liability, and why it would be asking to much for our nation to recongonze that with a better death benifits package ? Yes i can tell your very concerned about our well being infact you've said alot, but nothing that would suggest concern about our safety. Nor have you said with any facts why you want us home. other than make some crazy statements about drug and oil cartels and something about imaginary pipelines and pumping stations.

madmax: It was not you that i was ref to when i mentioned military service it was Catch me, who's claim to prior military service was called into question some time ago.

madmax: Which all may sound strange and foreign to you, but we agreed when we first started this mission that we were not there to force any form of government on the Afgan people that we would allow them to choose "thier" government one that would work for them did we not...and if that is thier interputation of islamic law then we have agreed to uphold it... When was the last time anyone was exucuted in a soccer staduim for the crimes or shall i say infractions that you mentioned, when was the last time someone was shot in the streets by anyone in the Afgan government for simply things such as dress codes, flying a kite, or having thier hands cut off for going to school.. All one has to do is make a list and compare the two the present day Afgan Government and the Taliban and one will find drastic differences and improvements... you pick which one you would perfer to live under...but that is not the piont is it, the Afgan people have not asked you to pick one or for that matter even like the ones they have picked. All they are asking is for NATO to establish security and to assist them in rebuilding Because they are islamic does that mean we can't help, does that mean our way of life is better, to the piont we look down at everyone islamic, or for that matter different, Is that the new Canadian way....is that how we built our reputation of being peacekeepers, peace builders. No it's time we put the peace signs away in the closet, it's time we start living up to our postion within the world. we has a nation can not help everyone that needs it, but do we use that as an excuse not to assist anyone. or do we make that our new foriegn policy if your not a white anglo nation then we can't help, and oh by the way we need to be done in a few years... If thats all you think we are doing in Afgan is providing security then your mistaken and ill informed.

madmax: This is my second tour here in Afgan, as a military member that is not up to me, but i will continue to come back as long as our government deems it nessicary. Catchme: Again i am having problems with your link, as i'm doing this from butt crap nowhere in Afgan could you post the revelant info for me. And no i'm not interested in deflecting anything. just interested in where your getting your info... The info you keeping posting confirms that the world is dependant on oil, you have yet to prove how this relates to afgan. I can assure you that your pipelines are not in our AO which is pretty large the size of a small state, if they were they would be under constant attack as they would offer more of a target than just us...perhaps you can give us a location of these pipelines and pumping stations... Yes, we would not want to show any graditude for those serving our country, let alone those that have died for it...But rest assure your government does not pay out nearly enough or come close to those figures, DND has it's own issurance plan that most soldiers belong to called SSIP a canex org, related to DND. as 99 % of civilian issurance org will not cover anything in a war zone...but even that would not come close to those figures...I'm surprised that an ex serving military member would not know of that...

If the NIS has done 7 months of investagation do you really think they are innocent. Unlike another other institution any drug offense in the military is a serious one...I like to piont out that these indiv are military members and come under two separate justise systems, our civilian courts and our military courts and they can be punished under both. The investagation has proven that these were the only military members involved, not all were involved in trafficing .NIS does not investagate civil matters involving Civilians, strictly military members so although there may have been more involved they were not charged, what will become of that info i do not know.. And in the military simple possession is a very serious offence. The military does have rehab for any drug users, but for hard drugs this treatment is normally provided just before member is released, services no longer required. Drugs and the military do not mix at any time regardless of what drove them to use... yes they are going to get counsil but do not count out doing time in a military prison, and trust me there are no comforts af home there, it is strictly a military prison where most of your rights are left at the door... Don't give me that shit, there are no excuses for drug use in the military, none, got PTSD then seek help...the last thing i want is some F###ing pot head next to me on patrol in afgan with live ammo and the ability to wipe out a city block at the touch of a button....no thanks. hence why we have a double standarded hence why we have two completely different justise systems. Drugs are readily available overseas, in fact almost every patrol we go on we pass some form of drug either for sale or growing in fields. To combat this ,sections must have strong leadership, they must be aware of the personal at all times...getting caught overseas with any form of drug that is not prescribed is inviting a trip home into cells...and if your lucky a good beating by those comrads that have entrusted thier lives to you.. I don't buy that PTSD made me do it either, there is not a soldier over here that has not seen first hand the effects of war and have to live with that the rest of thier lives. Can't deal with the stresses of combat then say so you'll be removed and flown home for treatment. were as turning to vices is the cowards way out, as it puts those close to you in more danger...

Catchme: Sorry but they do not your link WWW.Tondispatch.com comes up with error requested URL could not be retrieved. As for you other links i could not find anything about Afgan mentioned within them. As this is the topic of discussion how can anything about Iraq be revelant. I'm not the one making all these claims... you have yet to draw any partnership between them and AFgan. as one thier is no profit to be made from oil in the area. and 2 the profits from the drug trade in Afgan are not worth any payout, atleast not from a government piont of veiw as you suggested. think about this why spend 10 bil a year is assistance when your gross profit margin is only 10 to 12 bil, even a army guy knows the risks are not worth the reward. And i'd be more than willing to read your research provided in relates to the subject at hand or backs your outragious claims. Again how does a link about Iraq explain your comments on Afgan. infact how does any of your links explain your postion on afgan or your slanderous remarks....they don't...

Catchme: No below it what you said, and your whole last post explains nothing ,with the exexception of the last sentence of your entire rant. You did not even address this comment, that you so eagerly agreed with Again this is just slander, your opinon which you have provided absolutly no proof or even explaination, to why you believe that our nations military is involved in a useless murderous endevour. Again all you've done here is picked up a few peacenik catch phrases and ranted on, with total disregard to any good that is being done. let alone for our soldiers sacrafices...I'm sure this is the trash that your ex military comrads would love to here. So far i have seen one example of this , that being that man who wanted to covert to being a christian. our world governments intervened and crisses was adverted. do you actually have any more examples. So which one is it, oil or drug cartels ? must be the drug cartels, because it has alrady been proven that Afgans oil would not be profitable to exttract...protecting a what 10 to 12 bil dollar industry (est by the UN) , and thats on the north american street value ...you've got to be kidding me, so we are spending all this cash for an actual gross profit of only 10 to 12 bil... when our expenses are what close to those figures already... Can you please explain this ? just one thought, your link does not work, and no where does it even talk about Afgan, so how does it all relate to our current topic..Have you read this link ? My Webpage

Catchme: Perhaps you should get your facts straight, Islamic law was not re introduced after the election in fact islamic law never left AFGAN. What has changed is the interputation of that law. Comparing the present Afgan government to the Taliban government is apple and oranges. You are making a problem where there is none. "We Canadians who are finanicing this usless murdering endevour", Again did you read this in one of your peacenik web sites, Canada's contributions are strictly control with measures put in place to ensure not just anyone gets it, hence the problem with getting aid monies down to where they need it, and whats left over over does not add up to any signifcant finanicing of a murderous endevour. As to your tax dollars going towards our military murderous adventure, "send me your address" and i will gladly send you back the portion of your income taxes out of my own pocket that were spent on our mission here in Afgan. If it would stop your false accusations, your slandering, and your treading on the accomplishments of thousands of young Canadian soldiers, it would be worth it. And i have not even mentioned the extra cash i'd throw in just to hear you stop whinning ,bitching about every little negative thing that you find, with total disregard for anything good that has been accomplished. You sir or mam deserve a slap across the back of the head, former military member my ass. Sorry i was distracted oil rig just drove by, what was it you were trying to say, OH yes a rpivate army for the oil and drug cartels.... Do you have any proof, i mean real proof i thought we had already been over this one, as Dr Phil says that dog will not hunt...