Army Guy

Here is some movement from our government. I'd like to add that it is good to see movement from the banks and others on a postive note as well. My Webpage

jbg: I would'nt worry to much about her, she has posted niether qty or quality, in fact she makes it up as she goes along.

Do we really owe this kid anything, at what piont do you stop being a Canadian citizen, where do we draw the line a revoke citizenship... And what to we do with this kid if our government does secure his release from gitmo.. KAdrs

Poser: Those numbers are not for the week but for the entire year....thats 2 entire roto's , and in case you missed it the first time i posted it's 365 days.... edmonton sun Actually numbers are down because the taliban have taken thier winter break. perhaps you can give us a link proving the numbers are up, What you mean is they increase over major operations such as madusa...go figure.. this has nothing to do with the old ROTO, read the damn news ....yes we are ready to go home, but we are well aware we are not done yet...but you've never been in combat what gives you the qualifications to judge any of these troops. why is it all your links have nothing to do with Canadian soldiers. Stop painting all NATO forces as the same. This is bullshit, i was on mudusa, and spents days on end killing these bastards, stepping over the dead, and smelling thier rotten stinking bodies, and although i never counted them personally they were every where, and most, if not all died fighting us... but because a reporter says it so , one that probablly never stepped foot on the battle field it must be true...but one one of our nations soldiers says something it's disregarded as government retoric and is dismissed...I can feel the love...give me a hug..

Figleaf: At our current state i think Afgan is still very winnable, I wish i could say, Bosina took over 16 years and this is far worst than that. to speed things up i really think NATO needs to step it up with more troops. Thats hard to say as well, maybe a year, the taliban are not that strong to pull that off right away, i think a major war or drug lord would step into that vaccuum.

Poser: Your piont would be what ? let me make it for you...only two civilians have died this year in accidental shootings by canadian soldiers, out of the thousands of checks and fire fights we have been in.... and over 10 have been wounded thats out of 365 days of combat.... When have i or any other military member on this board said we are above the law, or approach ...don't talk about Canadian standards this nations military wrote that book, we live that book every day here ...don't preach to me behind your computer safe and sound ...the same security that big bad men that are in our military provide you and your ilk. what i did say is that if you don't trust those same people that provide that security then it's time for you to pack your bags. If this is really how you fullfil your time slandering those people that have sacraficed so much and have asked for nothing in return except your support ...i think you really need to get laid...instead of slandering those who you claim to be once part of... personally it's time for me to come home, not because i do not believe in the mission, not because i'm sick of you and your kind draging my name in the mud..not because i tied of your whinning about every little thing...but because my tour of duty will be coming to an end very very shortly. Canadian soldiers have nothing to be ashamed of we have carried out duties well above any standards set by our nation, NATO and the conventions of genva. We've assisted a nation in re building itself, helping bring peace to the southern half of afgan, what have you've done in the last 6 months poser...

Poser: The key words in that statement are accused, not tried or convicted, just accussed. You have already made your mind up and have already convicted them. Why is that. This is your statement is it not ....What proof do you have, give me a link...give me a source...you don't have one or the findings would already be in the press....without proof you got shit...just false statements slandering the good names of those with balls enough to do a job aour country has asked them to do... And then you contradict yourself by posting your 2 and half of your post.... so which is it are we abusing prisoners or detainees or not make up your mind.... At the beginning of the mission we were handing over POW's to the Americans...the Canadian public freaked out after the stories came out of US prisoner abuses and they demanded we not hand any more to the US...infact it was decided to hand them over to the Afganis people ,thier elected government...since we are not equipped to handle POW's we hand them over to the Afganis, now your complaining about how they abuse approx 30 % of thier pows...perhaps a nice beach house in the bahamas, or better yet ship them to Canada. What you forget is these scumbags are responsiable for terriable crimes against humanity and all you can do is shed a tear for them...and shout poor bastards we want answers......Yes, prisoner abuse is bad but there is always two sides to each story and your only telling one....so i'll ask you if you were forced to watch the execution of your father or serveral family members for the crime of talking to NATO soldiers would you be so forgiving...would you be demanding those responsiable be treated fairly, shit they have to arrive without a scratch or there are inquiries launched, and our own countrymen demanding heads on a pole.... They are making judgements without all the info, assuming we are guilty because more than 10 years ago, a few men beat and killed a somolia teenager. for which DND has paid that dept off in full...don't trust your own military or government then you should be singing another tune, or packing your bags....I heard france is nice. I 100 % agree with Alexandra final comment...put up or shut the F###-up.

I'd like to know "how many of you guys have started to dig your Nuk shelter yet" ...I for one are convinced that the us and israel leaked a highly secretive plan to bomb Iran back into the stoneage. I got shovels here going cheap...anyone... where did i put that damn tin hat again...WILMA....

Sorry for not being a little clearer, it's not life insurance, the military has it's own life insurance that covers war zones, and for about 70 dollars a month your covered for a max of 1/4 mil. most soldiers are required to have it before going on tour, although some do not... What we are talking about is insurance agains't your mortage, or veh loan etc..you pay an extra fee which entitles you for a pay out of your loan for accidental death. On my loan papers there is no mention of a war zone clause, just accidental death ie car accident etc. My wife is reading through our papers now, and has phoned our insurance company and our bank is covering it, but is going to revise it's contact in the future. My problem is petawawa is a small town and DND is the primary employer, and everyone knows this including those that are selling these for a "few dollars more you can get accidental death coverage policies"...which is a good thing when in my profession....and when asked if it is good in a war zone, the quit happily say yes...whats the odds a claim will be made....But like my policy the wife had to wait serveral hours for them to ensure we where covered.... I guess my bitch is, it is not being made clear.... up front that soldiers are covered only when not soldiering, or what we can do or not do, for instance i'm i covered here in Canada doing SAR , forest fires, ice stroms etc...Making preps for my death was something high on my list, and alot of those serving are assuming they are covered when they are not, hence why the panick.

I was shocked to read this in todays news, and it has me scrambling to check my own issurance... but this is not about me, it is about the spouses that have lost thier life long partners in combat...only to be told that these banks will not cover thier issurance claims, these same banks that have recorded record profits. I hope that this gets the same coverage as the alleged prisoner debate. army wifes.

Poser: And what actions are those poser ? perhaps you can give us an example, of how Canadian soldiers are emmulating american soldiers. Do you have proof of such a retarded remark ? do you have proof that prisoners or detainees captured by Canadian soldiers and then handed over to Afgan auth where tortured or mistreated...if you do then send that info to one of the inquiries, or that lawyer in ottawa...he could use some more TV air time. Again more unfounded and false remarks...but then again that is your trade mark is it not, making unfounded and false remarks...i think you need a boyfriend or girlfriend what ever your choice to consume more of your time, instead of making these false accuastions and tarnishing the good name of countries soldiers. your the one making these tall tales up in order to be heard on this forum, have you tried knitting.

BayLee: WOW, you mean you climbed out of your tree, just to type that, you sure put a lot of thought into that response. You must have ran out of mushrooms, or those big bad loggers shook you out. Either way i'm sure glad you graced us with more of your friendly banter. I'm sure you can string a few sentences together and enlighten us on our sorid past, hell maybe you can even figure out how to use that google feature and give us a link or two...I'm curious to know how you come to the conclusion that the actions of a few men, over 10 years ago, have determined the fate and dishonour of over 59,000 Canadian soldiers serving today. I'm beginning to think you don't like soldiers Bayleaf, maybe it's something in the mushrooms. Or maybe your not getting enough sleep, are you waking up in the middle of the night in cold sweats, dreaming of the sounds of chainsaws and trees crashing to the ground. Yes i did say "thier lifes", joining the military is a choice, in fact the military allows us to make lots of choices including the one to serve in Afgan or for that matter any combat zone or operation...We are not the mindless robots you paint us to be. Just Canadian citizens that have made the choice to serve our nation. Perhaps your ideas of doing something noble with your life is not the same as mine or the others that have chose to serve. But because you don't understand "why" we chose to serve our nation, does not give you the right to mock us. You have made some very generized remarks, painting us all with one brush, much like i have with you by suggesting anyone from BC is either a tree hugger or logger, thats not debate but a dick measuring contest. You want to debate then fine, you want to sling mud, i can do that to.

No it may not be totally free, but it may be worth a look. below is a link that does a very extensive review on affordability, etc etc...and although the Canadian education system does not fair out that badly it still places us at number 11 out of 16 countries surveyed, and places those countries with "free edcation in the top third. And with our government continuly posting huge surpluses it might be worth some of our tax dollars. Could this also solve some of our other problems that we as a nation face as well such as lack of trained medical personal, or other jobs we as a nation have a shortage on? global education rankings.

polynewbie: Never thought i'd say this but i think poly is on to something, Education is the key, but here in NA it is becoming more for the wealthy than it is for the general mass. I've read in a post here a long time ago that education including higher education is provided free of cost to all citizens in certian countries. a few nordic countries have such a system, such as finland. Why would such a system not work here in Canada ? free education.

BC chick: Perhaps you back up some of your wild claims with some crediable links. I'll take a few minutes a discliam a few of your pionts. - also reject homosexuality. are you suggesting that all liberals except homosexuality or are you saying all Conv are homophob's Homo's - also believe that war is the answer for most conflicts.... well according to our history that includes the boar war, wwI and II korea,kosovo, afgan..How can you make that claim ,when there has been a liberal government at the helm for most of our nations conflicts. in fact there has been over twice as many liberal governments involved in conflicts than any other government in our history... So who is really the war mongers here... also believe (many do anyway) in capital punishment....check out the vote count on bill C-68 to abolish capital punishment and you'll find alot of liberals voted to keep capital punishment as well....or were they really convs waiting to cross... also believe in catering to the nation's powerful..... and past liberal schemes and boone dogles will support this 100% give me a break.... So pass me those mushrooms and lets make a list of liberal traits ....anyone...

Baylee: Your not looking for a debate but trolling, you've made a retarded comment looking for a retarded response. so you could sit there, in your chair behind your computer and feel superior, with king like qualities to pass judgement on those you feel are beneath you. Or perhaps it is envy or jealousy that clouds your judgement. Jealous that these men and women, are actually doing something noble with thier lifes, bringing peace to nation, assisting in rebuilding it from the ground-up, and you can't stand the fact that you have to look-up from your postion in life just to catch a glance at them. Either way, you were not there, you do not have any of the facts, nor do you have the qualifactions to pass judgement on those rare cases where Canadian soldiers have killed innocent civlians, Nor do you have the right to slander any soldier for thier decisions made in combat.

Poser: Actually everyone that is picked up on the battlefield is a prisoner of war, and all are handed over to the Afgan authorities. where they will face a trial or investagation to determine thier status...Detainees are those that are picked up in sweeps or raids not on the battle field, IE like the bomb builder, these personal are also handed over to the afgan authorities unless Canadians determine they are just civilians, in which they are released. One of our mandates is to assist Afgan authorities in thier operations, so we do pick-up suspected taliban members, bomb builders, raids on drug lords etc etc. unfortunitly sometimes Civilians are picked-up and then released due to bad intel, or what ever. We've already had this debate, Canadians did not want us to hand them over to the US, it was decided to hand them over to the Afgan government. We do not have the personal to run a detention facility nor do we want the hasle of what that brings... I don't know why he would say that, but you can call it what ever you want...when they issue me unlimited ammo, and a ROE that allows me to use it, then i call it a war....

The media is not to blame for pouring fuel on the fire , how so, they've published a story with only half the facts, they leave it up to the reader to fill in the blanks. Attaran sent the information to the Military Police Complaints Commission, a civilian-run body that investigates complaints. Stanley Blythe, a spokesperson for the chief of staff for the commission, said the commission received the complaint a week ago. It alleges Afghans in custody were mistreated and that the military police failed to deal with it. It only recieved the compliant last week, again he done what he thought was right, and reported it, what would Attaran have to gain by going to the press other than personal gain, i mean i could see if the commision had sat on it for months but the just got the complaint last week... What info, DND had already sited most of the info was to be censored to MR. Attaran, it would also be cnesored to the press as well. so what new info did the press have , nothing other than what Mr Attaran has provided them...which at this piont is one sided as the investagation has not been completed, it's only a week old... No it is not, your making a big leap there by suggesting that those injuries were made during an interrogation. that would be torture....the same leap mr Attaran has suggesting...but all 3 of these men where noted that they did have marks and bruises on them after capture....and before interrogation... it is also noted that they were uncomplaint and extremily belligerant, if it takes 4 men in battle gear to subdue one man then there is a problem, and is going to result in some marks and bruises if not broken bones....it should also be noted that they were still extremily belligergent after they were zapped strapped... i'm sorry but if you head butt me or bite me, kick me while i'm loading you on to transport, your going down, and going down hard...hand cuffed or not, and at the end of the day you'll find yourself loaded on the transport. We do not use city cop rules here, there is no watch your head while you get into the car...the prisoner sets the tone, cooperate and your trip will go fine, mess with the bull and you will get both horns...until you play nice...

pass the mushrooms i think this is going to get good.

Actually the rules of egagement are very liberal compared to others we have been forced to use. Lethal force can be used if it is percieved that your life is endangered. That covers alot of ground... Prisoners serve alot of functions, remember these guys want to die killing us, it's a big moral boaster for us to haul one of these fanitics off the battle field screaming like a bady, it also is a big moral deflater for the taliban to see the same thing. They know they are not going to end up in Canadian pow center but a Afgan one, and that scares them.. Once they figure out we are going to treat them half decent they tend to offer alot of good intel... Following the genva convention is what separates us from them.. Remember the only difference between a dead enemy and a pow is the split second decission a Canadian soldier made to shoot or to check fire. Thats it...remember the ROE's it is if you percieve your life to be endangered that would cover just about everything... As for them taking prisoners has not happen to date, because we never operate in small groups, we always ensure we have the upper hand..be it numbers or superior fire power.

Now this is a story worthy of our national attention, worthy of those high wages that are paided to those we call journalists. I just wondering how long it will consume the left. But before we arrest a few soldiers on abuse or disband another regt to keep our nations good image intact we should be asking these questions. One Has to ask has Mr. Attaran been investagating "all" detainies captured by Canada's military? and for what purpose, yes he works for a human rights org, and if he is using his spare time to ensure that the military stays on track then i commend him for his efforts..But if his purpose is to undermind the mission, or use this info for personal gain or worse yet be employed by the bad guys then he himself should be investagated and brought to justice.. If he has'nt been investagating all the detainees captured by Canada's military how did he single out these 3, from hundards of detainees captured....inside sources "highly unlikely" or outside sources, are the taliban using this guy to make a big deal out this. We need to ask why he is doing all this....What was his motives for doing so, to have 5 mins of fame under the lights, or is he working to discredit the Afgan mission, or worse is he working for the bad guys. What does NON Complaint mean, it means that the detainee will not cooperate at all, not talking, not drinking, not eating , not walking or sitting he just refuses to do anything he is asked... What is "Extremely belligerant" mean...the detainee is using extreme physical violence to disrupt everything he is subjected to, IE capture, transport, interagation....which ranges from anything from bitting, head butting, kicking, using his entire body to inflict injury... I want you to remember that these guys were taken in combat by soldiers, not policemen ,downtown toronto. taking down a prisoner is a violent process, much like getting sacked by a 300 lb linebacker and if you resist then lets say measures will be taken against you to put you down, and to subdue you. They are extremily painful but are proven to be the quickest and most effective... they will leave marks and bruises, broken bones etc for more than a few days... That being said if these detaineees were beaten for someone pleasure by all means throw the book at who ever beat them, but if this is all about handling rowdy prisoners with kid gloves give me a break this is not the school yard this is the big leagues....mess with the bull and you will get both horns...

A good read. Afgan

I'm not reading anything into your statements, your blaming DND for not treating this guy, for his poor judgement in choices, choices that he has made by himself. I have also stated that DND does have a treatment program, in fact it , for your area it used to be in Halifax... and if he has not gotten the help or treatment that is required then it is his, and his chain of commands fault. he has either failed to request it thru the proper chain of command or his chain has denied him access. If that is the case he is aware that DND has policies in place to allow him to side step his chain and push his request higher... Becoming an addict is a personal choice, he knew before he started using that there was a good chance of becoming one, and yet he deided to take that chance. he needs to own that problem and take 100 % responsibilty for it. Being sent to edmonton with no treatment prior perhaps was not the best solution in this case, But i do know that edmonton also has a treatment center that is available for inmates. Again i do not know why it was not made avail to him. As for the Edmonton not offering him anything for most cases, edmonton is a wake up call and not many reoffend. it should have served as another warning encouraging him to stop or once again face the consquences. So yes it did offer something. If you mean have i balled all drug users into the same ball, and condemned them all yes i have, and for good reasons, i have put to many soldiers into plastic bags,for uncontrolable circumstances, using drugs is a controlable circumstance... would i want to put more into bags because someone wanted by personal choice to use drugs NO....I commend you in all you have done for this indiv, you may have saved his life. But DND has rules in place for good reason, and they should be inforced to the max...As for him not getting the treatment he needs he needs to take that up with his chain of command, which have failed him on this matter. Again i think we've covered this, he needs to take this up with his chain of command, or by going higher up the chain, and if he is still not getting the help he needs as a last resort there is the obudsman available to every soldier, his number is available on the DND web site, or DWAN... I apolgise for my tone or remarks that may of suggested that i was in a pissing contest, I just wanted to inform you that there is help available, and that Drug use in the military is a serious event, and users are more than not blackballed from the military...

helping_hand: I'm not sure whom you were adressing with this comment, but how do come to this conclusion. You make him out to be the victim here, correct me if i'm wrong but using drugs is a personal choice is it not, being in the military he understood what the DND's policies were did he not. so he knew what the risks were before he decided he'd become a drugie/ dealer...He roled the dice and lost. Treatment is available to everyone that has a drug or booze addiction, in most cases it is manitory for all those caught with a problem, it is also available to all that ask for it..I may also remind you it is also available will in dentention...And if he did not recieve the treatment then his leadership has failed him, but being in the military he also knows there is recourse actions available to him when his leadership has failed... By condenming you mean releasing him from the CF with services no longer required. can you garentee that his addiction would not be a problem in the future, say like in Afgan where pot grows to over 20 ft and covers millions of acres, or harish sold by the pound, or perhaps herion available readily by the baggie full. DND has not condemned him just told kim his services are no longer required, thanks but no thanks. Stop blaming DND for this guys problems, he made the choice and is now paying for his actions, end of story...If he's not getting the help he needs then he needs to inform his chain of command, until he does... As for me not knowing anything about it , your wrong serveral guys did not make this rotation in Afgan because of drug problems and they are being charged, treated and released...Drugs and DND do not mix, at all. Don't like the process i would suggest not doing drugs.

something like a racket ball eyewear, light not bulky...but anything will do were really not picky...it's kind of funny, that they are concerned about us lossing an eye playing ball hockey, but rules are rules... something i forgot to add to the list is wet naps, showers are few and far between...and gum, anything that is funny, a good laugh is hard to come by...or just a letter, which is the best thing i have recieved, it takes your mind off the war, and gives us something to do like write back...tell them about whats happening in your town or city, something funny..remember not all of us have access to computers or radios so any thing negetive is not good, local or at home...I've stopped sharing my computer for that very reason, the media was effecting my troops moral...