Army Guy

Madmax: I'm on the main camp for some rear duties, got the night shift so it's pretty quite and got lots of time to burn. Poser: Concern for our well being or maybe it's just that it furthers cause to have us home..Your not an NDP peacenik are you, with another mission in mind ? you have yet to prove that your a former anything, infact numerous times you have proven anything but. even an ex plumber should know something about plumbing. All you've suggested is that thier is going to be an oil shortage, and those with oil will have power...now that is news, and has been for years, but what is crazy is you tieing it to Afgan, what was even more crazy was the pipelines and pumping station around our camp, only proving that you are making this up or your sources are full of shiiittt. As for our credibility we've already been judged by our actions, and sorry to burst your bubble but the Canadian people kind of like us....And deep down inside your tinfoil hat i know you like us to... Actually in our sector poppy eradication is not that big of a deal, in fact most of it is being carried out by afgan troops or police. As combat operations that have kept us pretty busy...But if the UN est that the profit from poppies out of afgan is only 2.5 bil a year, and finicial assistance for the country is well over that mark would it not make sense for the Afgan government to curb it's drug dealings for risk of losing it's aid.

Catchme: Thats kind of hard since the Afgan operation is dry with the exception of the very odd occasion of 2 beers per man. I was ref to all drugs, be it pot or hard drugs. .. What attitude would that be the battlefield is no place for drugs because it may get me or my section killed or the attitude if your sick get help which one i'm confused. You are on crack i'm now convinced that you have never served a day in your life and if you did it was on some secluded airforce base. Germany was a NATO mission, one that was to respond to any warsaw pact invasion that never came, which meant that every unit there was on high readiness and at full war TO&E, not some peacekeeping mission. that meant there was armed aircraft on the tarmac and live air defense systems active at all times and the brigades war ammo for it's fighting troops readily available sounds like peace keeping to me... tours of duty were min of 3 years with some lasting as long as 5 or more years. this info is nothing new even available on google if you had bother to check...or do you make this up as you go...How many lies do we have to catch you in before you give up this charade. i hear by brand you your new nik "poser" everyone for say "Aye" poser it is...

Your joking right ? Again your joking ?

Madmax: Perhaps i'm missing something here max, excuse me but it's very early here, and i've been at this all night. i've reread your posts and i'm still not sure if we are on the same page, can you sort me out.

Catchme: I did not suggest that our country does not show our military graditude, i was being sacrastic with you ensuring you that our government did not show that much graditude upon a soldiers death. And yes many people do have more important jobs in running our nation, most are payed very well but perhaps you could list all those that have unlimited liability, and why it would be asking to much for our nation to recongonze that with a better death benifits package ? Yes i can tell your very concerned about our well being infact you've said alot, but nothing that would suggest concern about our safety. Nor have you said with any facts why you want us home. other than make some crazy statements about drug and oil cartels and something about imaginary pipelines and pumping stations.

madmax: It was not you that i was ref to when i mentioned military service it was Catch me, who's claim to prior military service was called into question some time ago.

madmax: Which all may sound strange and foreign to you, but we agreed when we first started this mission that we were not there to force any form of government on the Afgan people that we would allow them to choose "thier" government one that would work for them did we not...and if that is thier interputation of islamic law then we have agreed to uphold it... When was the last time anyone was exucuted in a soccer staduim for the crimes or shall i say infractions that you mentioned, when was the last time someone was shot in the streets by anyone in the Afgan government for simply things such as dress codes, flying a kite, or having thier hands cut off for going to school.. All one has to do is make a list and compare the two the present day Afgan Government and the Taliban and one will find drastic differences and improvements... you pick which one you would perfer to live under...but that is not the piont is it, the Afgan people have not asked you to pick one or for that matter even like the ones they have picked. All they are asking is for NATO to establish security and to assist them in rebuilding Because they are islamic does that mean we can't help, does that mean our way of life is better, to the piont we look down at everyone islamic, or for that matter different, Is that the new Canadian way....is that how we built our reputation of being peacekeepers, peace builders. No it's time we put the peace signs away in the closet, it's time we start living up to our postion within the world. we has a nation can not help everyone that needs it, but do we use that as an excuse not to assist anyone. or do we make that our new foriegn policy if your not a white anglo nation then we can't help, and oh by the way we need to be done in a few years... If thats all you think we are doing in Afgan is providing security then your mistaken and ill informed.

madmax: This is my second tour here in Afgan, as a military member that is not up to me, but i will continue to come back as long as our government deems it nessicary. Catchme: Again i am having problems with your link, as i'm doing this from butt crap nowhere in Afgan could you post the revelant info for me. And no i'm not interested in deflecting anything. just interested in where your getting your info... The info you keeping posting confirms that the world is dependant on oil, you have yet to prove how this relates to afgan. I can assure you that your pipelines are not in our AO which is pretty large the size of a small state, if they were they would be under constant attack as they would offer more of a target than just us...perhaps you can give us a location of these pipelines and pumping stations... Yes, we would not want to show any graditude for those serving our country, let alone those that have died for it...But rest assure your government does not pay out nearly enough or come close to those figures, DND has it's own issurance plan that most soldiers belong to called SSIP a canex org, related to DND. as 99 % of civilian issurance org will not cover anything in a war zone...but even that would not come close to those figures...I'm surprised that an ex serving military member would not know of that...

If the NIS has done 7 months of investagation do you really think they are innocent. Unlike another other institution any drug offense in the military is a serious one...I like to piont out that these indiv are military members and come under two separate justise systems, our civilian courts and our military courts and they can be punished under both. The investagation has proven that these were the only military members involved, not all were involved in trafficing .NIS does not investagate civil matters involving Civilians, strictly military members so although there may have been more involved they were not charged, what will become of that info i do not know.. And in the military simple possession is a very serious offence. The military does have rehab for any drug users, but for hard drugs this treatment is normally provided just before member is released, services no longer required. Drugs and the military do not mix at any time regardless of what drove them to use... yes they are going to get counsil but do not count out doing time in a military prison, and trust me there are no comforts af home there, it is strictly a military prison where most of your rights are left at the door... Don't give me that shit, there are no excuses for drug use in the military, none, got PTSD then seek help...the last thing i want is some F###ing pot head next to me on patrol in afgan with live ammo and the ability to wipe out a city block at the touch of a button....no thanks. hence why we have a double standarded hence why we have two completely different justise systems. Drugs are readily available overseas, in fact almost every patrol we go on we pass some form of drug either for sale or growing in fields. To combat this ,sections must have strong leadership, they must be aware of the personal at all times...getting caught overseas with any form of drug that is not prescribed is inviting a trip home into cells...and if your lucky a good beating by those comrads that have entrusted thier lives to you.. I don't buy that PTSD made me do it either, there is not a soldier over here that has not seen first hand the effects of war and have to live with that the rest of thier lives. Can't deal with the stresses of combat then say so you'll be removed and flown home for treatment. were as turning to vices is the cowards way out, as it puts those close to you in more danger...

Catchme: Sorry but they do not your link WWW.Tondispatch.com comes up with error requested URL could not be retrieved. As for you other links i could not find anything about Afgan mentioned within them. As this is the topic of discussion how can anything about Iraq be revelant. I'm not the one making all these claims... you have yet to draw any partnership between them and AFgan. as one thier is no profit to be made from oil in the area. and 2 the profits from the drug trade in Afgan are not worth any payout, atleast not from a government piont of veiw as you suggested. think about this why spend 10 bil a year is assistance when your gross profit margin is only 10 to 12 bil, even a army guy knows the risks are not worth the reward. And i'd be more than willing to read your research provided in relates to the subject at hand or backs your outragious claims. Again how does a link about Iraq explain your comments on Afgan. infact how does any of your links explain your postion on afgan or your slanderous remarks....they don't...

Catchme: No below it what you said, and your whole last post explains nothing ,with the exexception of the last sentence of your entire rant. You did not even address this comment, that you so eagerly agreed with Again this is just slander, your opinon which you have provided absolutly no proof or even explaination, to why you believe that our nations military is involved in a useless murderous endevour. Again all you've done here is picked up a few peacenik catch phrases and ranted on, with total disregard to any good that is being done. let alone for our soldiers sacrafices...I'm sure this is the trash that your ex military comrads would love to here. So far i have seen one example of this , that being that man who wanted to covert to being a christian. our world governments intervened and crisses was adverted. do you actually have any more examples. So which one is it, oil or drug cartels ? must be the drug cartels, because it has alrady been proven that Afgans oil would not be profitable to exttract...protecting a what 10 to 12 bil dollar industry (est by the UN) , and thats on the north american street value ...you've got to be kidding me, so we are spending all this cash for an actual gross profit of only 10 to 12 bil... when our expenses are what close to those figures already... Can you please explain this ? just one thought, your link does not work, and no where does it even talk about Afgan, so how does it all relate to our current topic..Have you read this link ? My Webpage

Catchme: Perhaps you should get your facts straight, Islamic law was not re introduced after the election in fact islamic law never left AFGAN. What has changed is the interputation of that law. Comparing the present Afgan government to the Taliban government is apple and oranges. You are making a problem where there is none. "We Canadians who are finanicing this usless murdering endevour", Again did you read this in one of your peacenik web sites, Canada's contributions are strictly control with measures put in place to ensure not just anyone gets it, hence the problem with getting aid monies down to where they need it, and whats left over over does not add up to any signifcant finanicing of a murderous endevour. As to your tax dollars going towards our military murderous adventure, "send me your address" and i will gladly send you back the portion of your income taxes out of my own pocket that were spent on our mission here in Afgan. If it would stop your false accusations, your slandering, and your treading on the accomplishments of thousands of young Canadian soldiers, it would be worth it. And i have not even mentioned the extra cash i'd throw in just to hear you stop whinning ,bitching about every little negative thing that you find, with total disregard for anything good that has been accomplished. You sir or mam deserve a slap across the back of the head, former military member my ass. Sorry i was distracted oil rig just drove by, what was it you were trying to say, OH yes a rpivate army for the oil and drug cartels.... Do you have any proof, i mean real proof i thought we had already been over this one, as Dr Phil says that dog will not hunt...

scriblett: Well said, But i'd also like to add, the consquences of not helping or pulling out to earlier far outway those if we stayed.

Man, did this get off topic, it's good to have a good chuckle every once in awhile, "is it clear can i take my tin foil hat off now"...was i suppoese to take the big blue pills on monday and the big red ones tues or was it the other way around, i can't remember ...screw it i'm leaving my tin hat on.

normanchateau: I did not say it did not play a role, nor did i say a minor role, just after the 1 st 3 i mentioned. Not forgetting that Afgan is still deeply divided on tribal lines..it is human nature to look after ones family first, even here in Canada, next being tribal or clan or in case of Canada from ones home town... Most of our interaction with local afgan people we are dealing with family/ tribal related problems and solutions, leaving the religous problems to the Afgan government. Again it was not my intention to down play the religous problems at all, and no the forces are not down playing them either. Instead what we are telling you is about dealing with people on the tactical level, and not the stragitic level, a good example of that is we soldiers don't get involved with dealing with the incident you mentioned it was our own dipolmats such as those inbedded in the PRT that handled that one. We are briefed on not only thier constitution, laws ,customs, way of life, these briefings last over a course of 6 months, It by no means makes us experts but familar with the topic...keep in mind most of us are training for combat ops, and most of our energy was spent there....There is a big difference between the interputations of Islam with the current Afgan government and the Taliban, as is eveident with children going to school, or women recieving an education, or not listening to western tradio, or flying a kite to list a few examples.

Catchme: Excuse me for my spelling, did'nt know we were being graded. How does reading an material written from that period of time make me an apologists, perhaps we should have had a book burning party at the end of the war. maybe we should have put each and every german soldier on trail, and hung them all, i mean the are all NAZI's right ?, perhaps we should do the rest of the world as well start with the Russians, the the Japense, then who's next they are all the same according to your thought process. To set the record straight i am not an apologist for hilter or the Nazi party, i will freely admit that have read some of Hilters and the nazi party written material, i've also read, many other writtings from Granstien, to disney...if that makes me a bad man...then i guess your right i'm bad, but lets not discount other military members, historians, and many of the others that have done so as well... All of it, below is a list of all our current and past UN ops. since by your own admission the maxuim number of Canadian soldiers that have serve on peace keeping mission to date is 125,000. An impressive number, also mentioned in the below links My Webpage My Webpage My Webpage As for the peacekeeping being our primary focus perhaps you can explain these numbers , they are our NATO Commitments to NATO operations, they have nothing to do with any peace keeping or peace keeping operations. In Germany alone over 300,000 Canadian soldiers served in Germany alone , does not take into account any other DND member serving in any other NATO country. Bosina and afgan have over 58,000 soldiers serve in NATO operations. The below numbers do not include other NATO operations Such as the NAVY contributions or Airforce numbers in other NATO OPS, My piont being we are now well over 358,000 Canadian soldiers served in NATO operations well over twice your quoted number , but how could that be if Peacekeeping is our primary focus ? My Webpage My Webpage I guess i find myself in good company then, with the likes Retired Gen Mackenzie, and Currently serving Gen Hiilier whom have written articles debunking your myth. My Webpage Was it not Gen Hillier that was quoted as say We are soldiers our job is to kill, nothing peacekeeping about that quote. normanchateau: In most cases yes, it's not only my opinion but what they are instructing as part of our overseas package, keep in mind i did not say it did not have an impact, but when dealing with indiv Afgan his family,is always first, then his tribe/clan then Afgan and finally to religion...address those concerns first and in most cases you'll have it right.

jdobbin: After 27 years one would hope that the mission had turned to just keeping the sides apart. As for the rest of the comment i disagree Canada's pull out from Cyprus had alot with being over extended in Bosina, it was also the time that we had decided to increase our numbers there in bosina. As for us funding the mission, not true there was serveral contingents there the same size or greater, plus the British had a much larger force on the Island and for most part pumped more resources there than we did. The earily portion of the mission was UN and i don't think many will disagree that it was a diaster, with being not thought ourt or planned correctly , not enough troops on the ground, and was deployed way to soon. However it was not until NATO did get involved that things started to sort itself out, alot of that had to do with the introduction of armour, fast air and heavy arty...in other words a powerful force something that all the bad guys respected. Todays Bosina mission has been cut to under 70 pers most of which are reservist postions and are more involved in crime prevention than peacekeeping. The whole idea of rebuilding nations perdates Bosina, infact it is the Bosina model that was being used in the earily Afgan mission. I will agree with you that Afgan is a based upon Tribalism, and it does come before nationalism...I think Afgan loyalities are divided to first family, then to tribe or clan, then to Afgan then to religion has there fall back postion. That being said it does not mean that a peaceful postion can not be found here, just that it is making it far much more difficult and as such is takening that much longer. I will agree with you on Cyprus, but my indication of war is how much ammo our government gives it's soldiers, in Cyprus it was 20 rounds, in Bosina we were issued a full war load 150 rds, plus grenades and anti tank wpns, that remained the issued for more than 6 years, infact it was the basic load up until we left on roto 14 minus the grenades and Anti tank wpns.. Now in Afgan lets just say you do not leave the wire with under 12 mags of 30 rds each with most carrying far more than that. that is not including smoke, granades, anti tank wpns, etc etc..

Catchme: No you are using a few sources and declaring them as the only answer, and the only truth. What you have failed to do is to check out everyone elses sources. Or for that matter disregarded what they have said. Actually many military members have read Mien Kumpf which was written by Adolf hilter, or other publications such as "the good old days" written by an SS officer trying to get some insight or understanding of what germany's military was all about ,in fact many other quotes have been used by other German generals of the same period in most other militaries of the world including Israel. Such as quotes from rommel, etc.etc. Thier ideas about modern mech warfare are still being used today... But your comment you are putting all german soldiers whom have served thier nation into one basket. when a majority of them had nothing to do with thier Jewish solution, or the extermination of the unwanted. And is therefore false. Those interested in the military and it's history. You have seen one quote out of many and have taken offense to it, really it was just a quote ,no where do they promote exterminationist thinking. But then again it seems to be the theme of all your responses here on this forum. Perhaps you should take what ever action you need to, and return the focus back to the topic at hand. I did not say you did, Your proof has been discounted and proven to be incorrect, what is left is your opinion, which you are entitled to, you've made it clear that you are not going to change that...The Majority here will agree that our military primary focus has not been peacekeeping" and we are not going to change that fact. So lets move on shall we...

I'm not sure on what context you were intending here, but i'd like to clearify it abit. Mr Harpers intentions were not to send hard core sailors and Airmen trades people into combat , but what he was refering to was the support trades that are locked into navy and Airforce postions, like truck drivers, supply techs, admin pers etc..i mean a truck is a truck only differance is ours are green instead of yellow, and we drive with our lights on during the day and lights off at night " it's a army thing"... anyways these pers would still be required to complete the 6 month work-up as the rest of us do, and would not be sent into combat without it...this would take some preasure off the army support structure...that being said it was not intended to have sailors doing the infantries job, not possiable just like i could not do a sailors job on the ships. Some how the media got confused in the intentions.. Catchme: There are some and you are entitled to your opinion, and i can only speak for myself, it is not my intention to tell you that your opinion is wrong, but rather to inform you that some of the info of which you may be basing your opinions is wrong. jdobbin: Yes the pose dangers, but they are not so great as they can not be overcome or made into part of the solution. And yes we might be thier for years to come. what disturbs me is that why is it just this mission that has time constraints why did we not set the same conditions on Cyprus, Bosina, etc etc...The public expects a quick fix to over 27 years of war, it's not going to happen...not with a billion troops or a trillon dollars, so why have we chossen this mission to put time constraints on.

Catchme: I think things are getting way out of hand, and your not really thinking your responses thru. and i'll give you some examples. I think you have taken this quote and disregarded it's contents because it was made by Hilter, If you were truely ex-military as you said, the contents should mean something. Even histories most infamous people have had thought provoking quotes and ideas. Army.ca has a great reputation but it is a site taylored for military people or those of the same ilk. and is "NOT" a site for everyone, they have no patients for posers, or peace niks, (no i do not place you in those catagories) just warning you that you may not like the site nor it's posters. I'm glad that you are doing some research, but do not allow just one quote to discourage you. Go to the site again and read the COMBAT ARMS selections and you will get a brutally honest opinon, of whats going on in afgan or within the military, it will also give you some insight as to what drives our soldiers opinions. My piont is that i want to prove to you and others that my opinions are not off base but rather the norm. Yes your numbers are impressive, but if you had actually read my reply, at the extreme of our peace keeping duties only 3400 military were employed in Peacekeeping operations, and this number for only for a extremily short period of 1 year, the norm being no more than 1800 to 2400 pers every six months, while our NATO commitments where well over 12,000 pers in the 50,60 and 70's to over 7500 in the 80's up until the early 90's when we pulled most out of europe. So while 125,000 sounds like alot of people i'll let you do the math but remaining committed to our NATO commitments has always been our primary focus.. after that the defense of our nation, keeping enough troops in Canada to look after everything from SAR to Diasters, then came our peacekeeping duties... All of this is historical fact that can be confirmed by simply checking on Our deployments. I just want to add check on all 3 elements Army, airforce and our NAVY as well because they still have deployments as part of our NATO commitments and are some times left out. I also want to piont out our peacekeeping duties are not an imbrassment to DND , it is something we are very proud of. it is just not a fact that it is our primary focus. I'm just curious on what US tactics are being used in afgan? because as a military member you should know that there are only a few tactics that work on Counter- insurgance operations, and these tactics are used world wide...I also like to remind you that we are using the 3 block war concept, here in Afgan we are fighting, providing diplomatic solutions and providing humanitary aid some times in the same city at the same time.... Tactics developed by the US and taken alittle further with a Canadian twist put on them, hence why we have a Battle group, to do the fighting aspect, and we have the PRT which provides the diplomatic and humanitarian side...i'd also like to add that all three of those elements have a hand in each others mission, for instance some of the BG pers may be involved in road construction, providing security to that op but also doing the actual construction. as well as some of the PRT assets may be involved as well in combat operations.. You and others have this misconception that all we are doing is combat operations and that is simply not true. most of our work here involves developing reliable networks with local villages providing aid, and also providing security....These aspects don't make the news as they are not sexy, or whenm they do it's buried behind stories that have the blood and gore in them that sells papers. Hence why i have suggested to get your sources from across the media and read between the lines... madmax: On the tank comment No tanks can't go into the mountains, but 90% of the AO is not mountains and although tanks are a very powerful offensive wpn on the battle field and provide us with one more tool that we can use in our fight again'st the taliban the do have some draw backs , they are slow, the are a very intimadating wpn, which is good and bad, attrack alot of enemy attention... but most of us here are glad they are here. Actually the number is quite alot compared to other trades that are employed here, the medical facilties at KAF are multi national as they handle all our cas, those facilties treat mostly ISAF pers, that being said ISAF does run alot of mobile hospitals /clinics which deploy to villages themselfs, here the treat anyone that shows up...i also want to add that we are bound to treat and evac everyone off the battlefield including our enemies medicaql attention is not denied but freely administered. your,Wrong the taliban are just as concerned as we are about winning hearts and minds as we are, they have quit often told entire villages to vacate as the plan to use it as a future battlefield. knowing that it will allow NATO forces to bring MAX fire power to bear.. What they don't care about is if they win, they are not fighting a war which wins a tacticasl victory, they are concerned about is the stratigic victory, for example X- amount of NATO soldiers were killed, pictures of destroied NATO vehs, How much damage NATO causes , how many civilians NATO kills... They know they can not win on the battlefield, but they know they can beat us at the stratigic level, and a great part of that is right here in your living room, thats right they can influence you and every Canadian citizen, they are also very aware that without your support that eventually our nation will be forced to pull out , hence they win, without any victories on the battlefield. Take some time and check out some of Al quida's web sites it's in thier doctrine. it will give you some insight to just how long they plan this conflict for, not a couple of years as some have suggested but for years 10 to 20 years, they are prepare to carry this out as long as we let them...and when i say "WE" i mean each and every Canadian not just us here doing the fighting. Now here is the catch you'll need to find one of thier english sites or have them translated...but it will be worth your effort and will give you more insight into whom we are engage with, it will also give you the insight into why Canadian opinion is so important...

Catchme: In some areas we are not using the roads as they are heavily mined, or have to many IED's so yes we drive thru the fields, however what your article fails to mention is that in most cases those farmers are compasated with cash for the damage. This is one of those catch 22 sit's get blown up by using the roads, or piss off a few farmers...i know what my chioce is.. Again this is how the media presents info, this area that the dutch operate in is hostile towards the taliban in fact in earily operations the village warriors were operating along side US special forces...So it's hard to take cas when there is no taliban operating in the region...as for our region we have only been there for less than 6 months now, and we are still throwing out the taliban out...comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges... Judging by your previous remarks i get the impression that you are not happy with the progress we as Canadian soldiers are making, that you are unhappy with the way we are doing our jobs. you are taking all your info from the media and treating it as gosple and disregarding offical news from the government as properganda. you need to find the right mix and read between the lines, there is lots of things happening here that i would love to share with you but can't because of OP sec. But there must be a reason why we soldiers are talking about the good we are doing and why we should stay...After all who risks everything by staying here and what do we gain by going home...just a question you have to ask your selfs...because as much as i love my job, i do value my life, and my family more and would not risk both unless there was something to it...

Catchme: No your piont was you signed up to peacekeep, To which i replied BS, And your quote about us being focused on Peacekeeping since the korean war is false, The military has always been focused on our NATO commitments, in europe and Norway, we have never had more than 2 Battle groups out of Canada on peace keeping duties and that was at the hieght of Yugo, when upto the early 90's we had 6000 soldiers in Germany on NATO duties, plus a Brig assigned to fly over to Norway, again both were in support of NATO duties. I don't recall Yugo turning into a disaster, in fact i believe thier has been peace in the region for over 10 years now... Our focus has always been on war fighting skills, up until we decided to take on the Afgan mission and now we are focused on the 3 block war concept. Just to set the record straight, yes you were right about who and when they purchased the Nyala's, but failed to address the other equipment they purchased or for that matter your only addition to my list was a small 234 mil dollar purchase, which was purchased for the Afgan mission only, in fact most of that equipment has been or will be replaced very soon exception being the nyala's...What the liberals failed to do was address our current state of our military. Something that you have to give the Harper government credit for. My orginal question was what has the liberal governmant done for the defense dept that i should be greatful for. Let me explain something, the only properganda we are fed is from either CNN, or our own news network, the military does not pass on the news just intel reports on the op that we will be on, and since i rarely watch the news, my opinon is based on what i've seen or done, or my inter action with Afgan civilians while on patrol.. But like i've said before doubt my opinion then go to the DND web site and e-mail someone else on the ground here, it's available on the e-mail a soldier...you could also write a soldier they'll be happy to respond.. That is your opinion , and i have mine, it's hard to get behind a party that has gutted an organization that i'm proud to be a part of. As for the rations, there excellant and so are the hot meals that we get. The US is still giving monies for the restruction effort, in fact again they are more than triple than what we are providing, plus they are also providing fyunding to Pakistan and many other surrounding countries, some thing we are not doing...And my piont is that without this additional funding this mission will have to be extended and that we both know is not going to happen unless Canadian public opinion changes, which translats for us soldiers here doing our part, that the mission will be extended again and we will remain in Afgan until the mission is sucessful or declare untenable by the US.. And the liberals are doing so much to push that thru are they not, infact some liberals do not want fast track the purchases...But you have not address the question Has the Harper government purchased more equipment in his first term than the liberals did in the 12 years they were in power Yes or no... Nice, your reaching now, this has already been address along time ago, yes the Afgan government has enacted the religous police again, but they do not operate under the same mandate as the once infamous Taliban did, they are there to assist with the Afgan popualation with religous and moral problems. really you should do some more reseach on this topic.

Canadian Blue: 3 RCR, Pet ont (home of the real Army) Infantry

Fleabag: No, don't get me wrong, there has been plenty of targetted strikes, actually pretty common and they do serve a purpose, but they are not as effective as having boots on the ground patrolling 24 hours a day, first it allows us to become familar with the area, the people, it allows us to monitor the re construction efforts , determine what a village needs in assistance or reconstruction efforts...it allows us to form a repore with the village it self, and some what protect them from roving taliban scumbags that punish them for talking to us or accepting our help.... i don't think you could ever replace patrolling...

Catchme: We would not be in Afgan today if it had not been for 9/11 period, As for that country having nothing to do with it is true however when they agree they will defend those responsiable it leaves little to discuss does it not, or do you think that those responsiable should have been left unpunished and left in afgan to plot more terror... I take it by your above statement that you are currently serving in the Canadian Armed forces, the last time i checked the Oath of allegiance no where did it mention peace keeping only, in fact no were does it mention you get to chioce at all , what it does mention is enemies of Canada both here and abroad. And your nation has declared the Taliban an enemy of Canada and is now currently engaging them on the battle field. Don't like that perhaps you should inform your chain of command, and make an appiontment with clothing stores to turn in your uniform...But then again i think your full of shit in your claim of being military, peace keeping only you make me laugh, i signed up to travel the world and get a great tan how and i'm making out. How many tours in Afgan have you completed, most in my unit are avg 2 to 3 with no relief in sight Your missing the piont it shows us that crietien did not take the advise of DND, and sent us anyways we were not ready for Afgan, ..He knew the current state of affairs in Afgan, and he knew the condition of his military, are you saying he knew something we in the military did not know, or like i was suggesting he did'nt care what it cost he wanted those polictical pionts...so he did not look bad for not getting involved in Iraq...Now that is showing leadership. Again i'm sorry and salute the liberal party... Who declared it short term, if we are honouring NATO commitments then we are commited to the mission until our NATO partners declare it over. or are we now saying our commitment is good as long as it is short term....Much like you saying i only signed up for peace keeping... The US still has more than triple the amount of troops than any other country involved has to say something plus the fact that they are pumping more troops in every month. sounds like the left us holding the bag.