Army Guy

Hydraboss/capricorn: Thats correct the entire Afgan threater is one based on volunteers, with a high percentage of those on thier aleast thier 3 tour and there are some on thier 4th or 5 th tour...it does speak volumes but not everyone is listening unfortunately.

There are approximately 800 service people missing arms or legs because of service to Afghanistan. We have what 2500 people there now? Do you really pull these numbers out of your ass, did you think someone might not aleast check up on them...My question is how can 800 servive members be missing anything, if only approx 300 have been wounded in threater. And thats with well over 15,000 of our troops that have rotated in and out of there. I know you have a bur up your bum inregards to our military, but either your on the bus or off the bus...you can't be both.... One minute your making comments like this one... Then your pulling info out your ass to make some kind of statement. Visit My Website I don't think anyone here is trying to Glamorize war in any form, but then again we've already established your opinion has no more wieght than any other person here.

Yes lets all bow and pray or give thanks to our past liberal leadership...hail "what was his name again", you know the little french guy....only for a year you say...got a link or quote...because that is funney....It was the liberals that sent us to AFGAN, and it was the liberals that sent us down south...period..grow up and take owership of those decisions it is what good leadership does... I'm sure most Canadians would sleep better at nite knowing our troops were doing nothing more than peacekeeping duties....but thats only because they hav'nt a clue in exactly what that means or entails....and it's not that they are stupid, they just never really gave a shit what there military was doing as long as it was re-worded, buffed down to a shine to sound like handing out teddy bears and candies... And well that may of sounded better to the Civilians back home "peacekeeping", it produced actually worse situtations for our military personal than the ones currently in Afgan. More sucides, drug abuse, were recorded during "peacekeeping ops" than in Afgan or combat conditions...something to think about... Don't paint us as if we are all just one naked ball of screaming drug addicts with severe emotional problems...We are the ones that have been standing the line for years, protecting , patroling, this nation , most of the time nobody even cared if anyone was on the wall...we have seen war and it's terrible side effects, and we lived with that every day, mostly at night but it comes with the job...one that we think we do pretty damned good at.

, There is some much misinformation out there it is scary, that and the fact that our government does little to set the record straight. And your welcome for the info, but don't let it stop there. There is plenty of people on this board with first hand info, that has been in afgan recently Weaponeer is one plus a few more. and there is plenty of reliable material out there.... Not true, your forgetting about the civil war that raged in the north and other parts of the country up until 2001, northern alliance was doing pretty much what the Taliban are doing today, bombings ,hit and run operations...basically making the country unstable. Here is another mis conception, that in order to have a democracy one must have it built on a north american model. When in fact aside from chosing thier own government very little reflects a western democracy, and since this is thier first one mistakes have to be excepted as part of the growing process...nothing is going to be perfect...and it will not represent anything like we want it to here in the west. The driving force to get the people to change is a strong one, the same one the wanted before the taliban came into thier lives...they want peace, jobs to so they can feed thier families, and look after thier clans...and for much of the country NATO has done that, atleast provided some what of a peace, according to regular Afgans any way. The jobs are being made everyday, more and more of the countries infra structure is coming alive, such as factories, market places, etc etc...They do see the difference but it is painfully slow...to all observers... y?Afgan see economy at bottom of link. And yes it is because we don't spend enough money, and the Afgan don't have enough money. We can't be sure of anything, nothing is garenteed in rebuilding a nation...but is it worth it, the average Canadian might not think so, but i've seen the difference in the 2 tours i've completed, ...But thats because i've seen the changes, our first tour in the early years we rarely seen any children out playing or working and yet today they are every where...the markets are full of people, the traffic is unbearable. It all pionts to growth and our nations efforts. Despite what the media is reporting the Taliban and terroist actives are not as strong as they were once (before op Madusa) and other operations, yes we are still hearing about the bombings and rocket attacks but what we don't hear of much is the organized attacks....these have dropped off..so it is in my opinion that so has the Taliban activity and our current operations are paying off and working. As forgeting democracy, that would be a huge mistake...it needs to be built at the same speed as our security efforts, hence why it is such a big part in the PRT reconstruction teams. it will be years before we see dramactic results in this nation, as with any long term nation we have been involved with...

Yes many are putting everything into this rebuilding effort, but one must also put into context it is a very poor nation and providing for ones family, ones clan is a day to day struggle for them. For most a cardboard box in down town toronto panhandling for change would be upper class citizens to them. For those that are assisiting in the reconstruction they do so for poor wages, no benifits, and under constant threat from taliban and others, not only agains't themselfs but thier families and clans as well. To further put that in context Afgan has approx 8 to 10 mil people, and must raise an army of 80,000, and have an armed police force of near double that number.... Canada has a population of 30 plus mil, and our armed forces is at only 56,000...and we've been trying to increase those numbers to 75,000 ...it is a slow process, and we have all the resources they don't..It is not an easy task... I'm not forgetting about the rest of your questions , pressed for time , sorry. www.csmonitor.com/2003/0508/p01s02-wosc.html

myata: I don't think anybody said they did not have the support of the Afgan people, you have to take a look at "WHY" The Taliban ideals "at the time" where exactly what they wanted, the made campaign promises that they had no intention of keeping...sound familar... In fact i've stated that not all Afganis want NATO thier either, be it the Taliban, some Warlords, some clans, the list is large..What i did state was the Majority of AFgan people do want us there. Not because they want to become westernized, but what we have to offer, a democractic country one of thier chosing...a country free of war, and terror, so they may start living the dream, raise thier kids in relative safety, to feed them, to give them a future. So WHY could the taliban provide this and NATO cannot... 1) they had the majority of support amoungst the people...the Russian conflict was brutal, and this is fresh in thier minds. They did not want a eastern ( communist) form of government, they wanted revenge...which they got. 2) After defeating the Russians and thier pupet government they did nothing, with the country, reverting back to fighting each other once again....it was here that the Taliban stood out from the crowd, promising a new government, a new way of thinking..actually an old way but after 30 years of war....And in a few shooking moves and a few years they had siezed control of the country which was back in caus once again...armed with thier new plan most of the people supported them... 3) once in control of the nation they had access to new monies, not just those from foreign countries but from Afgan it self...bils in funds...And when the could not live up to what they had promised the people they reveted back to ruling by fear....DON'T under estamate the power of fear it has been proven to work thru out history for thousands of years. Todays Afganis government is not ruled by fear, and reconstrution takes years to complete. And add to this problem a terror net work compounds that problem 10 fold...The Taliabn organization is a huge network of people, money, and equipment, keep in mind that bils of Afganis gold ,silver, etc where taken out of the country by fleeing Taliban forces...so they do have this funding plus funding from other muslim countries... NATO and present AFGANIS armed forces are just not enough to control the entire country night and day, take a look at the Canadian area of operations appox the size of PEI and the accomplish that with 2500 troops or about 1000 combat arms pers...The people know we can not offer security day and night to all areas, and the Taliban take advantage of that...when NATO forces leave they swoop in to terrorize the people once again....Until NATO forces get bigger, ot the Afganis army gets bigger this is going to be a constant problem...Which is why we don't need to be speaking about leaving but actually expanding our current commitment. Remember it is much, much more easier to run a terror net work than it is to defend again'st one. I know this does not begin to explain the questions you've asked, and aside from actually visting afgan you may not get the answers you seek.

The soviets actually pulled out in 89 leaving behind thier puppet communist government, And the mujahideen continued thier fight until 92 when they captured Kabul and installed thier own government. And i would not call them moderate...perhaps if you compared them towards the Taliban in thier hay day but when compared again'st other muslim countries no way...During this time they still recieved support for the US and other middle eastern countries. To describe it as a government with control over the country is wrong, and a stretch....more like a loose collection of warlords fighting each other....This is the period that most but not all US support stoped It should also be noted at this time that the mujahideen was made up of serveral factions, the Taliban being one of them, the Taliabn took control of Kanadar in 94, and then Kabul in 96. This was achieved because they were popular with the people who were tired of war, coruption, and the warlords brutal reign over them. So to sum up there was no real large army to fight, just a bunch of scattered warlords, plus they had the support of the people... Taliban history.

I was going to purchase a new ATV this fall, the new Can AM 650 base price here in Canada at 13,500 dollars...The same bike sells for 8200.00 US...And it's built in QUEBEC...And it's Canadian distributor has issued that any US dealers selling thier bikes to Canadians will have thier lic removed. This is not the only example, i checked the price difference on 6 other manufacturers and found the same difference in price over 5000.00 difference.

August: Just a question that has always bothered me, you stated that the most controversial portions are the public and commerical signs...i'll have to agree on that....In my line of work speaking French has never been a carear goal...more of a luxery item... My question is if it is line with the charter and Quebec can display "French only" road, and public signs would the other provinces be in line with the charter to post "English signs only". It might seem a silly question but one i'd like to know..

Not true...The taliban had large backing by US, CIA funding which was matched dollar for dollar by other middle east countries....As for sweeping the country in less time again not true They fought the russians for some time, also keep in mind they stayed in power thru shear terror...lets not forget the Religion police, or the soccer staduim per game executions. Not Ambivalent, The army is not paid well (which is being adressed), Afgans are very family orientated ,and they are away from them alot...and being in thier army is alot more dangerous, than ours, they don't have all the right equipment, nor do they have the same tech advanced wpns we do, and western soldiers do not have to worry about thier families safety when away....there is alot more to it than what i've explained here. but you can get the piont. Depending on if the time is right, if we leave before or just after 2009 then it will have a big impact on the mission, and Afgans future....we all forget the missions that have been marked sucessful and they were at a min 15 years in the making, in some cases 20 to 50 years and still in the making... Regardless of what party wins the next election, i don't think we can pull out...with out serious implications not just for Afgan but Canada as well. Lots, but for many differnet reasons, and alot of these reasons are being addressed as we speak...like the pay thing, or the leave...right now they have no leave so when they want to go home and see thier family they just up and go...and it is recorded as a desertion... But lets give them some credit , they risk thier lives for peanuts, and very little benifits other than making thier country safer for thier families...And it is thier families that the Taliban take thier revenge out on...There good people, excellent soldiers, but they are also husbands , fathers, and they need to provide for there families as well , in a land that is very hostile, and very poor...

Dancer has already explained the difference of brigades, divisions, corps, and armys. but i thought i'd add some numbers to it all, The Battle group is the smallest combat formation, in regards to organized formations...Canada now has a Battle group in Afgan right now aprox 2500 pers.. Brigade group = approx 5000 troops (like the one we are discussing here) to give some else for comparison there is approx 25,000 Coalition troops in Afgan to date and we are still fighting... Division = 3 or more Brigade groups....aprox 18 to 25,000 troops Corp = 3 or more Divsions..... 56 to 75,000 troops ( this is NATO's goal as you can see we have a way to go yet...) Armies 2 or more corps......= 150 to 250,000 troops

.You mean like the ones in the link i provided, such as: Campaign against terroism. Introducing new legislation, such as the Anti-terrorist act, and the public safty act. Improving cooperation with our allies. Spending 7.7 bil enhancing our security. Creating a new dept of public safety and emergancy preparedness and the Canada border services agency. Creating a smart border concept. Modernizing our immigration and refugee policies. New measures to freeze terrorist financing. Our military contributions to over 3 major operations. Working with the US and international community to prevent, counter, and respond to terrorism. Sounds like our government has place it on the top of the list for resources, rejiging certain aspects of our economy,and instututed border restrictions. How much more dollars, or lifes will it take before we are all on the same page...

Is that what we are debating, whether or not we have declared war or not. is'nt that a rather mout piont now ? Foreign affairs calls it a campiagn, actually an inter national campaign agains't terrorism. The below link is what Canada is doing in regards to this campaign...As part of this Campaign Canada has agreed to send it's armed forces to battle terrorist elements. campaign . Like it or not our combat troops are very much at war, they live, sleep, and eat war for the length of thier tours. they live every day with the realities of war, they see the outcome, kids going to school , new business opening, new roads, markets, etc...in most parts of the country, in the other parts they see poverty, death, and acts of desparate terrorists, whose only goals are to claw the country back into the stone age....To our soldiers it is very clear, we the soldiers are at war, while Canadians at home are not sure what they are doing, or what they want..So for now we'll call it war and you , well you call it what ever you want...

And we are talking about "Naive" my ,my...perhaps you could provide a source that states clearly your above statement... This is so wrong, it's actually kind of funney. Yes the US did train thousands of mujahadeen fighters over the entire course of the war.. not tens of thousands but just thousands period...Your giving the US to much credit and not placing the blame where it truely needs to lie...you fail to take in account mother Russias true ambitions in regards to Afgan, and you also fail to take into account the Mujahadeen's ambitions and thier reasons for fighting... instead your placing the blame at the US government 's feet, over your lame excuse of oil pipeline deals and other fictional excuses... so yes, lets Please at least get the facts straight. Afgan history CIA involvement

Actually he said that the Afgan army should be able to conduct independant brigade level operations with little or no support from the coalition forces...Brigade level is only about 5000 troops...no where does it say they are ready to handle operations larger than that.

Or maybe the people will start taking the laws into thier own hands, and burning down more drug houses , taking back our streets from these thugs and scumbags.

.Good come back, ( alittle bit of sarcasim) "you must have read the wrong report"...do you have a link to the right report.

And here i thought you did'nt care. That would explain why your so bitter and twisted, Military life was not all you expected, must of sucked , being a man of your caliber, one whom wants it known "your the man" force to serve with ordinary Canadian citizens...and then forced to do what was asked of you, the Kingston pen, UN operations, train for a wpn that was late in coming...SGT Rock comic books never covered any of those topics...what a let done...Mean while kids of todays army have completed 3 and 4 tours of duty living the SGT Rock dream....and now your pissed...you need to get over it...I'm sure there are lots of todays kids that would have change places with you in a heart beat.... Yes military service does require a physical toll be payed, in the combat arms hearing, sight, knees and backs injuries are the norm...as for veterns affairs treating me differently you bet they're going to, todays soldiers are entilted to more and better benifits, but you already knew that did'nt you...there is serveral bills in front of parlment right now to correct this giving all vets the same coverage, again youy knew of this, heck your in office with the green party right... But right now yes we are treated differnently... I actually think i'm fully justified in doing my part, and i don't need your help in that dept, it is you who thinks we are not justified in the Afgan mission. And todate have failed to explain why... Here i'll spell it out for you, You've failed to admit that you have studied the Afgan problem, nor have you been there, so really your opinion is based on current media info, available "believe it or not" to everyone on this forum there fore your opinion is worth no more or no less than anyone else on this forum.. You seemed to be of the opinion that because you've spent a glorious carear in the military, are involved in polictics, spent some time on a movie set, become a millionare in realistate that you can push your way around this forum like we need to bow and pray to you the newly appionted forum god of knowledge and solutions to the worlds problems. And yet instead of convincing others to follow you and this profound knowledge and leading us into paridise, you've made bold statements and offered little in explanation...must be a green thing. When it is 150 dead needlessly and 1500 missing their legs and then my ideas are actually used anyway ,,, i hope you all remember and feel like shit for the parents of the next 80 who will die needlessly.(army estimates are for 150 dead and 1500 with limb (arms &legs ) losses to 2009) At yet the same soldiers that are making these sacrafices are not complaining, they are continuing to volunteer for more tours...something that you've missed in your "lets make them cry with the cas list and figures"....As for me feeling like shit, you have no idea what todays soldiers go thru, they've seen thier comrads die, they've seen the damage done to the enemy up close...they've held thier comrads broken bodies and watch them slip into death, making promises that we can't keep....No we are well aware of the pain that war causes. I just hope one day you'll see thier sacrafice the same way we all do.. Have you've asked any of them, some have been on national media, telling there story and you know what not a negative tale to be heard, a good example of that is that MCPL Medic who lost both legs during the blast that took the only Government MP life. He has picked up the pieces of his life, and is leading the way for others to follow, true leadership, true heroism, a true Canadian role model. Just some of the things he took with him after he left the service... DO you honestly think that sums up everything your family fought for. So they could place a vote, must of really sucked once that country was taken over by the commies...

shavluk: Do you consider yourself an expert on this topic, Have you studied the Afgan problem, have you been there, have you been involved in counter terrorist operations... then really your opinion is no more valued over thiers... Thats right your a reg force arty guy, king of the battle field, you are aware that the reserve force have played a vital part in most of our operations for some time now, I'd rather have some reserve Infanteer backing me up than some reg force bag of wind any day....sorry a regimental marksmen... I'm curious just how big that riding is, and do they know this is how you represent them...Is your thoughts and beliefs really the veiws of the green party... I thought the green party ran on an eviromental platform, not an anti military one, they must be proud to have an ex military member with a chip on his shoulder in thier ranks...

shavluk: I do not know why i'm responding , just can't get rid of this urge to right the unjustified comments... Perhaps you can show us all where in my posts do i belittle any of our servicemen. And if you have the time i\d like to know why you think the deaths of so many of my comrads are a waste. Yes the blue beret, please don't make it sound it was the head dress of the day, when in fact we wore it only while on UN operations, few and far between and depending on the unit on Nov 11. As for the myth of being peace keepers first and foremost, perhaps you can help with some math, add up all the personal that has ever gone a UN peacekeeping mission and then add up those numbers that have gone on NATO santioned operation, duty area tours and then tell me we were a peace keeping nation first and foremost...Try and keep it real. And here i thought you were versed in the black art of death, RCHA the king of the battlefield, able to bring down death from above from 20 Km's away, while safe in the gun pits. Just a note did you know Canada's top shot with the C-7 rifle this year was won by an Airforce guy out of gagetown, wonder if he's first in the dark arts of death. Actually still serving thank you this dec will mark 27 years. 1st Royal Canadian Regt, CFB Petawawa. You meant M-109 did you not, that must of been awhile back if you were going to be one of the first on the 109's, what year was that ? I think the piont they were trying to make has gone over your head, As i have said before i've completed 2 tours in Afgan, both tours i believe that we are helping the Afgan people, and thier cause is a noble one, in which i believe in very much. One in which i and most Canadian soldiers take to heart, so much that we continue to volunteer for over and over, despite the risks. The same must of been felt by your uncle, who believed in his cause that he was willing to risk everything including his life for. Perhaps your uncle wanted you to serve your nation, so that you could experiance this once in your life time. I've seen the misery this taliban scumbags inflict on the Afgan people, cutting off little girls hands for the crime of going to school , cutting off heads and placing them on pikes for Talking to NATO soldiers, being wrapped in barbed wire then dragged behind a truck, for not answering questions about NATO soldiers, the boy was a deaf mute... just some of the reasons why i'm going back for a 3 rd tour, not because i crave combat , or love war, but to assist the Afgan people in getting just a few of the same rights we take for granted everyday. The cost of this conflict has been high for me and my comrads, and yet we still continue to volunteer for a mission we believe is not about oil, or power but helping a nation that needs it.. And to call thier lifes "WASTED" belittles them and the sacrifice they have made on Canada's behalf to the Afgan people. Perhaps it is not thier lifes that were wasted but the years you spent serving this country, and coming away from all that service with your current beliefs and opinons you hold today...

Thud: Yes i did say our forum, if the forum is full of snakes why stay ? or is it because your the forum police, sent here to rout out all us cons, Piss away, but why us , why this forum , got a better forum ?

shavluk: I really hate possers, i mean they really do a disservice to those that have served and to those that are serving. And right now i really think your a posser... When did all the Canadian forces wear blue berets ? No, we don't need tanks, in fact we don't need those big bad army guys at all, just a few construction guys some heavy equipment and we'll be set...one question though what do we do when the taliban have your construction guys bent over thier graders screaming thier heads off while they are slowly being hack off with a dull knife...whats your plan then ? flowers, group hugs more talks with Jack. Have you served in Afgan, if not who are you to call thier sacrafice a waste. Last i recalled our military was voluteer was it not, these soldiers chose this way of life, they chose to voluteer to serve in Afgan, they knew the risk and have paid for that choice in full. Don't dishonor there sacrafice by calling it a waste...i don't give a rats ass if you don't believe in our military, or the mission. But don't dishonor our dead, that sir is over the line. I know lots of guys in the army, whom are not "versed in death" what unit did you serve in. and when did you get out.

Tbub: Your a busy guy, causing quit a stir, which is good for the forum, Maybe you should examine your own posts # 3, 11, 14 and 30 some of your comments And my personal favorite :"especially in this cess pool of a forum, amongst the likes of people like you." Most people like it here, and are fond of this forum, and an attack on the forum is an attack on all of us. This being a intra net forum one of many, it is you that have chosen "our forum" to piss in our pool and then demand respect like your some demi god from the forums above.... Fair enough, much like i connected the dots, NDP to cape and tights... Here's a bold statement, well i don't mean to burst your bubble but so is the military again'st blindly following orders, in fact it forms a lage part of military law, laws set out in the genva convention, and inter national law as well, but you already knew that. I take it from the rest of the quote you are refering to mans need to prove himself on the battlefield,and us as a race not learning a damn thing with the exception on how to do it better, faster, and quicker. War is an insane undertaking, but there are times when it needs to be done, someone needs take thier head out of the sand and say enough, and put those words into action. Much like we did in the second world war. and different results are achievable some good and some bad. I guess that helping out the people of Afgan to attain some of the rights we are taking advantage of right now is to much for you. The left is full of excuses Can't be done, russians could not do it niether can we, Afgan , taliban are no threat to us, we'll make ourselfs a target....I'm glad our fore fathers did not think that way, perhaps we would be goose steppingright now. You may think that your outside the box, but don't kid yourself, history is full of examples of meek and peaceable, lets talk first countries, most where crushed under someones boots. I don't condone aggresive military actions, but everyone must be willing to fight for what the enjoy, if not that nation is living on borrowed time. Come on this is Canada not mother Russia. you make it sound like were all hidding in your closet waiting to pounce and strip you of what you have....thats not an illusion but disillusioned. Lets not forget that our military is made up of Canadian citizens, from across the country, not some storm troopers off a Star wars movie. your rights have been fought for and perserved by those people, ordinary regular Canadians... You may not think credentials are important, but do you attend any lectures without knowing something about the speaker, back grounds often dictate the speakers knowledge of certain topics. But hey thats your choice, and i will assume nothing. Well thats what we do here, we debate , learn from each other, see both sides of the debate , right or wrong...it's all about learning something, i can only speak for myself. But it was not me whom used your approached , kick the door in and yell all your cess pool conseratives out of the pool, that was you.... I don't have to justify anything in my mind, i've completed two tours in Afgan with the Infantry. I know exactly what i was doing, what i was accomplishing and whom i was helping. i knew before going over, when i volunteered for a second tour and soon a third tour. Not because i like combat, or the "rush", but because i think that Canada is offering these people a gift that they want most peace, a way to stop the continueous combat that has plagued this country for 30 plus years. And the only people standing in the way of millions enjoying those freedoms are a couple thousand extremists....and it is my job to hunt these cruel heartless scumbags down and exterminate them. It's a job i do not because i like it, but because it needs to be done. And like it or not i do it all under the Canadian flag, our flag, both yours and mine.

You mean like your introductory post, attacking our forum and the people in it and now you want us to be reasonable....Something must be in my drink....anyone else having the same problem...

Does that mean we can't keep him...come on one more chance, even a die hard NDP er deserves that.