Army Guy

I don't think your understanding what i'm saying...With ONLY a 20 bil dollar budget and NO outside funding DND can not meet it's purcurment goals....All one has to do is take alook at the small slice DND has left for projects each year. and then cost each of the projects we have currently on the books... It would take decades just to replace the capabilities we currently have... Thats Bull crap and you know it, we have not recieved any more new equipment since Lebanon with exception of the C-17's....Our Navy had to rent borrow, and steal....to get the equipment it needed to evac those people to cyprus where they bordered Civiy flights home to Canada.... C-17 Are stragic aircraft...meaning you don't risk them in a med intensity conflict, by landing them on an unsecured airfield...thats what we have Hercs for....and that option was struck of the list as it would have been to costly in regards to lifes lost...soldiers lives and civilians lives....we also had that rented RO RO ship you've talked about...but it could not get there in time , nor was it cleared for a combat zone as it's crew is civilian....So what did Haiti show us...I'm confused... In time of conflict here is what NATO looks for.....Combat troops, yes we have them very good ones...but if we add up all our combat arms personel it's 12,500 that includes Inf ,Armoured, Arty, and Cbt Engs.... you do the math.... It looks for modern tanks....We do have 60 Leo IIA4's sitting in a warehouse waiting to be upgraded, we also have leo A4 about 40 sitting in Edmonton....but they were made in the 70's.... Looking for mordern CCV....we have LAVIII made for Med intensity combat at best....but ours are worn out Looking for Heavy Arty...got none , sitting in a warehouse there to old We do have up graded CF-18....but when your looking for mordern equipment CF-18 comes up at the bottom of the list.... We do have a Navy that performs very well with US fleets...Thats is a bonous for now... We have x 4 C-17 excellent aircraft...but to few.... So what is it that we have to offer....i meqan when you put it into context we are a G-8 nation we are 7 th in spending in NATO.... That is right.... the orginal project was to replace the LAV III with New built LAV H "built in Canada" and supplement that fleet with Rebuilt LAV III to the same standard....so there would be enough vehs in the forces for all that use them to have them....The Bn i'm in now is lucky we have 2 companies worth of LAV's out of 3 and a few support vehs ...other Bn are running one 1 companies worth vice 3..... So the projects has been changed Now we will recieve rebuilt ones, have have to make do once again...with even less...as there is no vehs to replace the Battle losses in Afghan.... On scedule, contract was signed in 2009, they were suppose to make 100 vehs a day according to the contract....well sir it's 2010 and still no sign of this veh at any of the Brigade units....must be stuck in traffic...What i will give you is that we have recieved the Milcot version, or should i say the reserves have, but those can not be used as they burst into flames every once in while.... CCV My link New Patrol veh,: Entire program has been shelved, postphoned until when ever.... New Recce Veh,: This program has been postphoned as well No fuinding available... Not according to this article these projects have been canceled twice before already....and this veh is once again on the chopping block.... Tpav My link Really have you read this.... FWSAR My link Not according to this article, JSS has been around for years, still no firm design nor, contractor.... JSS My link Here is a funney article , most of what have been said i've heard from navy guys as well Navy My link Apparnetly some airfoerce officails are worring now.... F-35 My link All very much needed equipment, and all of it was required yesterday....most of it was pushed through , but you know as well as i do our purcurement sys is broken....and unless there is some policitcal edge to be had most of it will sit in limbo.... AN225 My link Having some big aircraft is not sucking , but it hardly puts us on the prower projection scale you think it does....like i said 4 c-17 might be able to get a company worth of men , supplies and vehs into battle hardly enough to scare any nation into action....but as a G-8 nation we should be able to do more than we can... Says NATO, says i don't remember how many US presidents, Govenors, shit even european coutries....have express thier opinions that Canada's military is under manned, under equiped, and in danger of become obsolete... I don't think the sky is falling i know it is ...I see it every time we go on exericise, and combat troops in a mech out are trucked or bused out because we don't have enough LAV's....that is just the start of the ice burg....the list of examples is huge...

Sorry Wyle, but they are not forgotten, I've been approached dozens of times by Afghan civilians who thank me and my comrads for thier service, and our sacrifices....as for Canadians we will remember them during the many rememberance day ceremonies....And at the Unit level thier Names will be scribed in our Units history, and read aloud on serveral occassions through out the year....Soldiers will sit down over some beers and tell stories of the fallen, the funney shit, the sad shit, NO sir they will not be forgotten...

based on what evidence ? No but the living sure appricate it....and as for the rest is your opinion....

What did you think combat was going to be like....a clean surgical enviroment...full of sane men taking thier time and making sane decisions ....you got a small visual sample of combat....Murphys law says anything that can go wrong will go wrong.... in the bad guys case thier entire day went to shit....in the medias case should have picked the winning side to film....Bad guys were out to kill some americans....the media guys were there to cash in on that film....both paid a heavy price... And to answer your question, Canadian ROE's are alot tighter but this scene would be a lawful shoot...

Murder....how so....tell me those armed insurgents were not out to engage american forces....as they had been doing all day.... does anyone not take an RPG out to the market....or go bird hunting with....Heres the rules of engagement...if your in a known conmbat zone and carry a wpn openly your a target period....those that were unarmed....well shit mister what do you think they were there for...they wanted to see thier boys get some....and while ROE have them as still civilians to be aviod if possiable.....the gunner did think key word here is think or percieved that they where going to fire an RPG on american forces....i guess those poor inocent civilains that came out to see some american get waxed....got more than his money worth ....The media crew where out to film the same event they knew the risk...and paid the price...guess they should have been in those Bradlys instead....

Then you don't understand the Taliban, or the other terrorist gangsters in this tragic event...sometime the only way to fight fire is with fire....and in this case the biggest stick wins.... Our losses as tragic as they are, have been light, compared to other conflicts this nation has been in....what you have lost sight of is everyone of those soldiers volunteered, they saw something about Afghan that they thought the risk would be worth it....let me ask you this every had that feeling....every sat down and thought if i accept this mission it could cost me my life.....Our soldiers are doing that everyday for years....Canadians think they know what freedom is all about....when really everyone needs to see what absolute caus looks like, smells like, tastes like....and once you see it...then you'll know what a great gift we could provide them with just a little peace....This is what our soldiers are providing and why they risk thier lives for.... The Civilians caught up in this conflict are what personally got me to come back 3 tours....each time i left i had to look them in the eyes and tell them i had to return to my family , friends and way of life...knowing full well life for them was going to be a day to day struggle, for food, shelter, water...who was going to keep the bad guys away in the middle of the night....the end of each tour was the worse for me....it ripped my guts out knowing in less than 12 hours i'd be home eating steak drinking beer, listening to my kids giggle and laugh....and while we might not be loved or even liked by all the population....those we did help are freinds for life....and trust me for every horror story you read about in the media there is 10 good will stories that did not get reported....because blood sells papers.... Down kanadar looks like any other middle east city, cars , trucks commerence, cell phones, lap tops in cafes ....everyone chasing a buck.....and while they are not all university educated do not sell them short...most of the men have good educations....doctors, engineers, etc etc... SO as most Canadians are letting out thier breath with our new reployment date in 2011, it's not something we should be proud of....it is what most Canadians want....it's not what our soldiers want...yes we are tired of this war, but we want to finish it, to be able to look our allieds in the face , shake hands , and say thanks for coming out....i want to be able to give those Afghan civilians the same .... a fighting chance at a stable life, without war and all of what it brings.... Nobody really knows what they have until they loss it...or see the consquences of lossing it....the gifts and freedoms we have here in this nation are plentyful....and i can not for the life of me know why we can not share them.... every time i land in Canada i kiss the ground and thank god for being Canadian...because i've seen the worse...and i know what a great gift we all have....

Some of the basic capital aquisitions have been listed for you , 20 bil a year will not allow any of that to be purchased..... I'm sure those Canadians stuck in Lebanon did'nt give a rats ass either until they had to be rescued by our military forces in rented, borrowed , stolen equipment.... Having the right equipment is more than being able to project power, having grand schemes of conquoring the world, it's about defending Canada as a nation here at home and abroad....it's about giving those soldiers who have decided this is what they want to do...the tools to do it with.... In order to be part of any alliance you must have something to offer, if our equipment is outdated or incompatable we are not going to be able to function as a team....your going to be sitting on the bench... Not even close....

Sorry above quote was for 2009, in 2010 tax breaks amount to 3.5 bil..... My linkwww.budget.gc.ca/2009 Tax Relief for Canadians Budget 2009 will deliver $20 billion in personal income tax relief over 2008–09 and the next five fiscal years. Effective January 1, 2009, this includes: Increasing the basic personal amount and the top of the two lowest personal income tax brackets by 7.5 per cent above their 2008 levels, so that Canadians can earn more income before paying federal income taxes or before being subject to higher tax rates. Raising the level at which the National Child Benefit supplement for low-income families and the Canada Child Tax Benefit are phased out, providing a benefit of up to $436 for a family with two children. Effectively doubling the tax relief provided by the Working Income Tax Benefit to encourage low-income Canadians to find and retain a job. Providing up to an additional $150 of annual tax savings for low- and middle-income seniors through a $1,000 increase to the Age Credit amount. Introduction and Overview No, i'm not about raising taxes, i'm about the even distribution of taxes, and not neglecting our military as i've grown qiut fond of my ass and would like to keep it....atleast for now... None, the link i provided you has plenty of excess if you look are you aware our government in 2009 spent over 85 bil in Improving Access to Financing and Strengthening Canada’s Financial System....if we can throw this amount around without blinking and yet choke when we talk about 5 extra bil for the military i think we have a problem.... Have you read the budget reports , are you telling me everyone is chipping in to pay down this deficit we are in...if it is such a big deal then everyone should be touched....does that mean they can cancel our 3.5 bil in tax breaks this year....i'm good with that....but thats not what is happening the first place everyone looks is DND to suck it up....and what i'm saying what little meat is on the bone will be gone after we pull out of this event....

What a crook of shit... Just a while back the Majority of Canadians wanted Canadian soldiers to go over a kick the guts out of the taliban....can we say now that was based on emotion....because we had a hard on for womens and childrens rights....we are the Canadians... warriors of basic human rights....were we thinking clearly when we decided to send our boys into battle.....who's kids were we thinking of then...when the first combat cas came home....I know you've been again'st this war since the start, so your off the hook, you hold no responsabilty for anyone actions....Yes. yes ....you've done your part to return the troops, you've attended rallys , joined a forum, to voice your displeasure....you've done your job as a citizen...If we where all thinking clearly we would have done things differently... Thier vioce needs to be heard, we all owe them that much.... Those other kids you talk about are currently soldiers in our nations Military....an armed force that has signed up to put thier lifes at risk in order to defend this nation.....we knew the risks before we got involved....same as most Canadians should have.... As for the Game....NATO will decide when the game is over....and as long as our allieds are over there risking thier lives we should be as well...our soldiers have recarved out our fighting abilities, regained our allieds trust in regards to dependabilty as soldiers....our soldiers have made this mission thiers because most Canadians dropped that ball long ago....this mission is almost at an end....we need to show the world we can and will stick by until then....anything else would be embrassing, and undo some of the work we've paided for in blood sweat, and tears....

Well this year alone Canadians recieved 20 Bil in tax cuts....That in itself would go along way to reducing our debt and fund some more depts....all without increaseing taxes....and if you look at the national Budget there are dozens of programs in there that could be trimed or taken out completely...So ya there are funds, out there we just need to look at all these programs and ask ourselfs do we really need them.... LAV veh fleet: Currently being modified to rebuild current fleet....no new vehs in the forecast... ,New Patrol veh,: Entire program has been shelved, postphoned until when ever.... New Recce Veh,: This program has been postphoned as well No fuinding available.... new Logistic wheeled vehs,: In the works, still no funding or contract.... New AOR's : This program of JSS has been shelved,no funding ,no contract, no design, not even a builder interested.... New destroyers : Come on nothing is even on the screens , sure we have a few guys doing some research, but nothing planned , New SAR aircraft: Sole sourceing has this program stuck in limbo, last i read we could expect something operational near 2017....and yet no funding or contract in place... replacement for F-18,....Yes we've put funding away for this to pay for our access to tech , but we've yet to indicate or even sign onto the F-35 yet...so really this project is in limbo.... So my question is were is the funding...and if funding was available we should atleast have a project reporting everything is fine on scedule, contractors picked out.... Power projection (or force projection) is a term used in military and political science to refer to the capacity of a state to conduct expeditionary warfare, i.e. to intimidate other nations and implement policy by means of force, or the threat thereof, in an area distant from its own territory. This ability is a crucial element of a state's power in international relations. Any state able to direct its military forces outside the limited bounds of its territory might be said to have some level of power projection capability, but the term itself is used most frequently in reference to militaries with a worldwide reach (or at least significantly broader than a state's immediate area). Even states with sizable hard power assets (such as a large standing army) may only be able to exert limited regional influence so long as they lack the means of effectively projecting their power on a global scale. Generally, only a select few states are able to overcome the logistical difficulties inherent in the deployment and direction of a modern, mechanized military force. While traditional measures of power projection typically focus on hard power assets (tanks, soldiers, aircraft, naval vessels, etc.), the developing theory of soft power notes that power projection does not necessarily have to involve the active use of military forces in combat. Assets for power projection can often serve dual uses, as the deployment of various countries' militaries during the humanitarian response to the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake illustrates. The ability of a state to project its forces into an area may serve as an effective diplomatic lever, influencing the decision-making process and acting as a potential deterrent on other states' behavior. My linken.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Tanks for one, Heavy armoured support vehs, and while yes we can carry more than one lav in a C-17 , it is a stratigic asset, these aircraft are not flown into a hostile airspace, thats what the hercs are for...and they only carry one stripped down lav at a time....So really any load wieghing over 50 tones is a no go... Haiti what was needed in Haiti troops and supplies...nothing heavy...so ya haiti was a breeze.... From what your saying all you need is a few C-17 type aircraft to project power then there is alot of nations that can...The France,Italy,Spain,China, India, Pakistan, Japan, Germany,Qutar, UAE, most of the old russian warsaw pact countries...to name a few...in fact there is alot more if you want to include Amphb forces.... Having some big aircraft is not sucking , but it hardly puts us on the prower projection scale you think it does....like i said 4 c-17 might be able to get a company worth of men , supplies and vehs into battle hardly enough to scare any nation into action....but as a G-8 nation we should be able to do more than we can... Right now we are still in recover mode, with alot of ground to cover just to maintain our current capabilities....there is room in our budget to make some major changes,aas little as 5 additional billion every year would allow us to knock off some of these major projects , lets not forget, alot of these projects we've have already lost or will lose those capabilities shortly....SAR aircraft i mean come on....how old are they....Destroyers, not to mention many capabilites we no longer have such as Amoured Self propelled Arty, a modern air defense sys, a 120mm motar platform, and each element has it's long list of problems...

For what it matters i think Dizzy's theory is right on the money, for a couple of reasons, The lack of any roto assets did infact reflect on the death toll, you don't have to be a rocket sciencetist to figure out more road traffic will increase the IED threat...Deaths have been down by a huge margin since our current roto assets hit the ground....It should be noted that during our orginal order of CH-47F helos, the US offered to give us a prioty buy on used CH=47D models, we declined and stated we would wait....thats after the military briefing the government , screaming at the government that these machines would save lives....the following year we ended up buying those Ch-47D anyways....And the proof of all that is reduced cas figures...Helo's save lives...but then again what is a soldier worth? As for working from the Air, we are doing it all the time, chinooks give us the speed and mobility we lacked, it puts troops in any grid square at any time, with surprise....it gives us another tool in the box, and for soldiers in combat we need all the tools you can get...

You paint a pretty rosey picture, going back almost 10 years, your right the Forces budget has almost doubled in 10 years going from 10.6 in 2000, to almost 19.2 in 2009. keeping well above the inflation factor.... And yet even with staying ahead of inflation increases, the price of new equipment has more than doubled, in fact it has almost tripled in alot of cases. take alook at our orginal Leopard tank purchase each tank was est at 250 k per unit...our used Leapard II A4 ran close to 1 mil per, the cost of a brand new Leopard II A6 is over 2.5 mil per unit...So keeping ahead of inflation is a mout piont when talking about the way it effects the entire Forces budget...and how much new tech costs... But let me ask you this how many of those years did DND go into the red, actually over spending it's budget to get all the jobs it was assigned ? The first years of the Afghan mission ran DND into the whole, and while the goverment did extend it's budget , it came at a cost to DND as well with cuts to training, equipment purchases etc etc.... How much more funding good question, one can not really answer that until Canadians tell DND what it is they want us to do...A new white paper would be nice, but then again white papers cost governments funding....without a white paper, or going off the old white paper then we will need more, how much more would depned on what major projects they want to fund, such as replacement LAV veh fleet,New Patrol veh, New Recce Veh, new Logistic wheeled vehs, New AOR's for the Navy, New destroyers , New SAR aircraft for the Airforce, replacement for F-18, That is what is needed today in order for them to come in on time ....There is dozens of other projects that need to be looked at as well....just to allow us to maintain what capabilites we have.. Power projection is the abilty to land troops via the shore or via airbourne means and sutain them until further assets can be brought to bear or the mission is completed....normally equated with say an Aircraft carrier group, or a marine Amph Group, Having a few transport aircraft does not give you these capaibilites...it does give you the ability to drop troops any where, but getting them back is the hard part if things turn hostile....And our Navy is not large enough or have the firepower to support any landings for any great of time...let alone supply a ground force in combat. Keep in mind our C-17 are not the only aircraft keeping Afghan in business, our airbuses and Herc fleets run steady to keep our force of 3500 troops equiped....we still rely on other Nations to bring in the heavy stuff.. Yes the CF has been busy everyone of us had some role to play in those taskings, but to maintain that pace we just can't without high rates of burn out....But to accomplish that it took almost all of the CF...had anything else come up we'd been Screwed.... That big honkin ship, would be a start something in an LSD -17 would fit the bill, seen how we've already taken it out for a test drive serveral times already...some new destroyers to protect it... C-17 owners is actually quit a few, The US , Britain, Austraia, Canada, NATO Straticgic airlift program, Qatar, UAE,India is looking along with South Korea....But there are many other coutries out there with simlar Stratigic aircraft of russian design... I did not say it was...but in a major event, DND is the biggest show in the country, and we have had a hard time dealing with small events such as the ice strom , or Winnipeg floods....and would be very much overhemled in a major even..such as katrina, or earth quake...and while thier overwhelmed people are going to at risk becuase of it....

Thanks for sorting me out Waldo.

http://www.publicsaf.../index-eng.aspx Smallc we've had this conversation many times in the past, your of the opinion that we spend enough perhaps to much on our security Depts which include RCMP, Coast Gaurd, CSIS, DND, Customs, ETC.... I'm of the opinion that we don't, shit most Canmadians will agree we don't spend enough...It still does not deter from the fact that our military forces and rest of our security depts are well under manned and equiped to perform the basic jobs that are required....And if that is a fact then we are not properly funding these depts .... Projecting power....If you think those x 4 C-17 majically give us power projection your wrong....other than that what equipment do we have that projects Canada on a foreign shore or inland... And for a major earth Quake your right the military is not going to be the only responders , that being said just how many extra do you think this example you provided are going to provide, 1000, 2 5 10,000 what is the number you think this major event is going to actract....During the Winnipeg floods volunteers poured into winnipeg to help free of charge....thousands of them...all with good intentions , but most without training needed to operate equipment, as a result they where a burden onthe limited resources in place....such as shelter, food, the basics.... Your right it's not 2.5 they have downsized the number is 2.3 mil which does include national guard units and in a event such as a major earth quake I'm sure a state would agree to mobilze it's national gaurd...such as they have for Iraq and Afghan or Katrina.... But my orginal piont was even with 2.3 million troops to pull from and all the vast amounts of equipment they have they failed to arrive on time and when needed .....with 1000 times more capability and all the problems the US faced in Katrina....do you honestly think our Military has the resources to handle not only the wounded, but also the flow of people leaving the area, or getting food water, and supplies into the area.....Or would you say the military would bust it's nuts getting there but would be quickly over whelmed and in fact useless in many cases....

Diefenbaker's decision was based on world events changing and the advent of nuk wpns, massive ground forces where expensive, and nuk wpns made them more expendable...was it the right choice depends on who you talk to....Personally i think it was the wrong choice, and set us on the path we are on today...other PM's have rode this pony for all it's worth until you arrive today....A military that is stretched to the piont where we can only afford to send out a meager force of just over 3700 combat troops....Sad when you think of it... Canadians have for sometime forgotten just how important our nations military is, they have forgotten just what services we provide...aside from our military role, we provide SAR, fisheries patrols, Assist other depts such as Coast gaurd, RCMP,CSIS, inter- national comms, because these depts have been gutted as well, we provide them equipment and personnel to complete thier basic jobs....we also are a major player in internal diasters, such as ice stroms , floods, forest fires, earth quakes major air crashes etc ...We are also our nations response to inter national diasters.... Instead they have come up with excuses to satisify themselfs such as Who would attack us, the Americans our favorite neibours to the south we love to slag... they will come to the rescue...we are a peace loving country , everyone loves to love us.... And yet a small internal problem such OKA, involved a major chunk of the CF, the ICE storm involved almost the entire CF, not to mention the Winnipeg floods....these events are on the small end of the scale..I ask you when katrina hit the US military with over 2.5 million troops had an extreme time responding in a timily manner...lets picture a major earth quake in Vancover BC, i hope the city has a good reponse team, because by the time we get there, we will be to late and a dollar short....History does not lie we just chose not to listen to it...and in the end Canadians will have to piont to themslefs " and say we are responsable for this....not Diefenbaker, not trudeau...

Waldo i don't think i'm following your thought process...From what i understand, is the public institution is not providing the scholarship, the scholarship and all it's funding is being approved and funded through a private source...All that is at stake here for the unversity is placing it's name on the program....This is no different than accepting any other student with a private scholarship, such as those provided from fallen policemen or fire fighters etc...or if the student themselfs had paid for thier education via cash payouts made from life insurance or DND compasation packages in event of death...Do they ask everyone where does the cash come from because we don't want in thier minds dirty money.... Does the unversity have the right to refuse entrance based on those facts....I think it boils down to the name of the fund, the "hero's project"....I personally like it, but then again i have a vested interest. Had the fund been called something else would there still be a problem...i doubt it... After all it is just what it says it is An offer of free education to one individual that meets the critera of the scholarship....in this case one has to have their mother or father die while serving this nation's military...it does not say that the student must follow in their parents footsteps, or follow the same polictical way of thinking, or any other thing these proffesors can think of....it leads to the question what are they afraid of...

I think some members here are lossing the main piont here. The piont is what was the intent of the hero's scholarship. The media has spelled it out in thier terms it was to remember our soldiers sacrifice, but is that the main intent. Or was it to Give something back to family members who had lost a loved one in the service of this country, in this case in Battle...I mean lets take a look at this for a second in most Military families the main bread winner is now gone, leaving "normally" the wife who has sacricficed everything, Moving every 4 to 6 years precludes any real advancement in any job, She has in alot of cases put her life on hold such as further education, Get a serious job, to raise her family ,taken postings that in most cases are only small towns with limited oportunties.... And yet some would say or introduce it by some deep twisted meaning that we are honoring our militarism , or furthering our countries passion for expansion, through military conquest....But what are we really doing here...A group of privite Canadians have set up a scholarship, with funding raised to give back something to families that have had a loved one killed in the service of our country....It ends there, no policitcal meaning, no other motives... It's another slap in the face that these families will have to endure, so i ask out of the over 140 Soldiers killed in battle how many even have family members ready for university, 5 or 6 and how many will choose to do that in Sask...I'd give it the same odds as me winning the lotto... This scholarship is no different than the dozens already out there for policemen, fire fighters, EMS techs, or for that matter any other private group willing to donate funding for education for any other cause....we really need to shake our heads...with the dozens of major problems effecting our country on a daily basis they have chose to campion this cause, a cause that won't even effect thier little lives or kingdoms and to make they're statement...once again on our dead soldiers backs....

Project Hero also provides $1,000 cash for qualified university applicants from those military families. Hardly what i'd call free education, whats 1000.00 get you in Unversity, would it even cover the cost of your books...And while any donation is well worth the ink it takes to apply, is this 1000 dollar donation really worth all the effort these 16 professors took to denounce it... Glorifies militarism....just when we where all scratching our heads and complaining that not enough history let alone Canadian military history was being taught in our schools....It's spelled out right here in black and white...Professors and teachers want to distance not only themselfs ....but future generations from anything Military.... god forbid we glorify anything these days... a glorification of Canadian imperialism in Afghanistan and elsewhere.....As a Canadian soldier who has completed 3 tours in Afghanistan, i can personally tell you there is no Canadian imperialism goning on in Afghanistan...but what would i know , so to make sure i'm on line perhaps someone with the same attitude or opinions as our professors could explain to me, what exactly is meant by Canadian imperialism as my defination certainly does not fit what is currently going on in Afghanistan....or maybe it's not me rather them as they are clueless on what is transpiring over there in their name... It states the U of R should not be "connected to the increasing militarization of Canadian society and politics." ....... Are you shitting me....Are we talking about the Same Canada, are we in the same universe ????perhaps i'm stuck on another plane of existance, or perhasp they slipped into my not sure as of yet....Perhaps we've all missed those MAY day parades in the capitol city, where streams of military personal and equipment flooded the streets with MR Harper taking the salutes....or maybe they are just misreading the size of our current military and added a few zero's to the actual 64,000 people in our forces today....thats one soldier for every 155 sq kms of land...Someone once joked that you could stick our entire military into the molson center, and still have seats left over.... These are the people who are responsiable for teaching our future leaders, captains of industry.... this behavior makes me wonder just what is the product they are producing and how is it effecting our nation right now..

Sad day indeed, correct me if i'm wrong but it was the U of O that invited and infact paid for MS Coulter to speak was it not...it leaves me wondering what where their motivies in doing so...when they had no intention of letting her take the stage...atleast that is the impression i'm left with. I also ask what are "they" afraid of, What are Canadians afraid of.... her stinging words, her threats, her opinions what exactly....I mean most of them are not new to us....this nation has produced some of the worlds finest warriors on the planet, we have proven that time after time in every major conflict around the world and yet this one women has our capital shaken in thier boots....and yet we can not come up with someone who can debate with Ms Coulter, proving or disproving her opinions, i guess not...instead we find some lame excuse to keep her from the stage, Security my ass...actions of cowards...not warriors or thinkers.... For those that might be offended and can not debate with her on that level have the opition of not attending, and yet these same people who cry foul...and threaten violence really pour fuel on the fire, they give credit to her cause giving her much more media coverage than she deserves...Since when is it OK in this nation to threaten anyone with violence just becuase we might not want to her thier words.... starting to sound like those middle eastern countries we slagged in regards to the cartoons of Allah. Is it OK for me to start hunting down some of the tinfoil posters on this forum, threatening them with violence if they post just one more retarded post....Since when does violence trump one of our rights... freedom of speach....i think it's time we wake up, She knew the rules and i'm sure one of her staff would have made her aware of our current laws in regards to hate speach....she also was well aware of the consquences of her actions....and yet she did not have to do a thing....just said BOO....and we all went screaming home ....sad day indeed...

I think this tech break through is great, but what concerns me is what effect it is going to have around the world... The US will be able to produce all of it's own energy, meaning prices will be heading south and no longer controled by OPEC nations, on the other hand what does Canada do with it's surplus we currently sell to the US...Canada becomes self suffient as well, meaning our oil prices will drop as well... How does this change the balance of power in the middle east ? or for that matter other oil rich nations.... What does this mean for all the cleaner alt fuel tech being developed now...such as elec cars, etc etc...does this get shelved ?

I just curious , do we all get our own offical thread....

I just want to set some facts straight, First off the OKA crises is not one of Canada's finest moments in it's history , and when i say that i mean for both sides....stupid shit was done on both sides..and franklly i'm surprised it ended as well as it did... And you may be right, i've served with a great many native soldiers, all good soldiers, but the ones i knew i doubt very much would have been involved with the likes of Lasagna,or Noriega..., and while you've said above many have served as Navy seals, or Spec ops warriors ....those at OKA where definately not of that caliber, not even close...in fact according the the Warrior publications a blog written by Mohawk warriors, they say the exact opposite of your quote...and from what i seen on the ground as a young soldier at the time i would not put most even in the soldier catagory.... Now things may be different today, but back then...NO way... You might want to read the Great Law and study Mohawk tactics sunshine. The 25 Mohawk Warriors "held off" 2500 troops. That is a fact. That doesn't mean they went head to head in armed combat, silly goose. It means they managed to outsmart, out maneuver and outlast the Canadian Armed Forces and all the political will in Canada. That is really what conflict is about. And that is why Mohawks are survivors of 500 years of attempted genocide. The Dutch, the French, the British and now Canadians couldn't beat them so instead they made allies out of them. Without Six Nations (among others) help in the American Revolution and the War of 1812, it is likely that we would all be Americans. Kapeesh? And of course the game of war or conflict is about who can outlast the other. 25 men did a superb job of keeping the Canadian Armed Forces at bay until the end, without firing a shot. The Canadian Military could take a lesson from that. Your numbers of warriors is way off, in fact they numbered well over a hundred, and maybe 75 or more when the military showed up....25 or less is what was left on the last day of the stand off...the others had faded into the woods, and i'm trying to be nice...There was serveral different levels of command during OKA, those radicals or Warriors types like Lasagna,Noriega or Rambo....then there was also the old and wise also viaing for control....it is this last crew that really set the tone, of the conflict ....without them it would have been a blood bath...i don't know how many times drunken warriors almost started a fire fight or how close they came to have thier foreheads opened up with a 7.62 rd at over 800 meters.... What scared me as a soldier was how many times we exericised a take down of OKA , using maximum force, on Canadian citizens...So was i scared shitless ya i was, not because the warriors scared me...but rather i'd spent my entire carear up to this piont training to kill commies....not Canadians... Did they outsmart the government, i don't think so, I'm glad the military played it out the way they did, without use of lethal force, because trust me it would have been a blood bath , a one way blood bath and it would have changed Canada forever. All it would have taken was for one person to fire one round and things would have escalated from there...those 25 that were left on the closing day, would not have lasted 5 mins...not with the fire power we had one the ground...in the air or in the water... Below is the link to the warrior blog, it describes thier side of the story... My linkwarriorpublications.com/

None the less they are warnings, not everyone has the same experience as you do,or the benifit of say growing up in the area. I've done alot of camping and outdoor recreational activities, even in high fire risk areas and have been visted by rangers or park wardens and never been given a ticket , if they see your responsable taken the precautions etc etc ...they normally leave you alone...i say normally...because there pricks in every crowd.... You and i both know how these things get started someone heres about it and asks another buddy are you going bring the beer...the last question that gets asked is "IS it going to be dangerous"...One would think a responsiable event organizer would have explained the dangers of atending to the crowd before the event, and maybe explained the emergance proceedures of what to do in case of avalanche....or min equipment required to attend...Maybe your right someone should be checking into this line of thinking... But you've already stated you've already mimimized the risk,using common sense, judgement, experience and proper equipment....these guys did not... But the area was chosen because of the high risk, and like someone said in the story, it is'nt extreme unless there is a high risk of avalanche ...So they it sounds like they went out of thier way to chose a spot where the risk was the highest, it's part of there sport or event.... SO is it an honest mistake....we both know if you don't show mother nature the proper respect, it will take a chunk out of your ass....

Yes it is your choice and as it is not again'st the law it's within your rights to be in these areas. The government has highly suggested via warnings that these areas should be avoided, for public safety and for the most part they are... You've said that when you and your buddies go into the back country you pack your own gear and rely on your experience and judgement to make it back, I'm assuming that when your judgement and experience tells you that conditions are unsafe you return or don't go at all....I also assume that you don't expose family, kids and friends, to the same risk..It is after all your choice and your risk.... But this case is not the same.... this case is about the exact opposite, they knew the risk was extreme, they knew there was a very good chance of this happening , hence why they where there....but they took it a step further and made it into an event, and invited spectators friends and family...Was the risk explained to all of them....did everyone have the right equipment, did they have the same experience and judgement to make the correct choice.... And while you may not expect any rescue attempt to be made, One is made for everyone that is reported missing, like it or not someone is going to come looking for you, sooner or later...be it to find you alive or retrieve your body but they are coming...they don't have a choice and while they are paid to do so, your decision that you make to risk it all, is going to impact they're lives as well...they depend on all of us using common sense, judgement, experience to minimize that risk. Mother Nature is unforgiving, she needs to be respected, or she will quickly snuff out your life...this entire case is seeing how far mother nature could be pushed....kind of like swimming in shark infested waters with dead fish tied to you...or jumping without a reserve chute ...you call it extreme sports i call it not being responsable....kind of russian roulette like...

Kimmy i read the article and all the comments people made, i just don't get it...they all figured it's they're right to do what they want, regardless of the risk it imposses to themselfs and to others... I wonder how many of those that attended this event , will be there next year....maybe thats all part of the rush getting dug out of the snow...