Army Guy

That was not the question.....the question was what was the best aircraft for the job.....and who within DND picked it and why did they pick it......and why has that advice been thrown out the window....like it always is.....this aircraft is a political choice nothing more....you make it out to be about dollars and sense....and throw out any info that says other wise....it has nothing to do with the best aircraft, it has everything to do with off sets, and lower price....and yet not price comparison have been made available. DND does not need a procurement cell , it has got the liberals who are experts and all knowing.....they can tell at a glance what is need and how much.....all while bending DND over the table....and whispering in their ear , you better smile for the media .....or you'll get some more of this.....and then telling the public all is good , see what we bought...nice, shiny...these are not the driods your looking for......

So you do have SAR experience....great, tell the room what are some of the SAR aircrafts taskings going to be.....wait , you still have not researched it yet have you....i'll wait.... Experts , what experts....the liberal cabinet, the money guys what experts are you talking about...you and SmallC.....i'd like to know who knows better than the guys that originally seen all the aircraft in the line up and choose the C-27J......guys like SAR techs, and the airforce.....i'd be curious to know you trumps them.....dollars to donuts it is the money guy...

No , not a victim, more of a guy trying to learn of your plight....maybe learn a few things or two.....but that's not where this is going ....this is "you" who needs to yell or vent at some English person....any English person will do....because some how some one from NB is responsible for all your problems.....and to be blunt.....I don't give a rats ass....I have my own problems, in my own province.... From listening to you separation is only a matter of time.....great good luck with that.... I hope that Quebec does not separate....but that's out of my hands, so I don't lay in bed and lose sleep over it.....I will tell you if it does happen , it will be a major source of disruption, and discourse within Canada, our dollar will fall, as will our trade, our debt will grow, etc etc....Canada reputation will take a hit on the world markets....but hey you'll have your own country that is what you want....that may or may have the same borders as it does today, everything will be sunshine and rainbows....and we will all live happily ever after...........and 50 years from now no one will even remember that we were once one undivided country..... good luck with finding your next English person to torture.....it has been nice....

So it did happen LH did put it on the table.....then with drew it.....we have been operating C-130H on the east coast and sometimes in the west for years.....and after 14 years it is to expensive.....enough so to move the project to completion not really .....well not for 14 years any ways...... You know as well as I do no one from the public has seen the 40 year forecast......you know the one that is legally required for all major purchases.....and if you have one for 20 years I have not seen that either.....atleast one that compares all the aircraft that made a bid...

Lockheed did original submit a modified C-130J, maybe something similar to the US coast Guard variant, LH said it would drop out of the race due to unfair purchasing practices of the Canadian government .....IE the F-35 be eliminated with out due process.....or competition.....not dealing with a nation that has unfair or a dishonest purchasing program is not having a hissy fit it is called good business..... And in reality it would have meant less cost due to parts, sims, training, foot print, logistics tail, but shit.....what does the military know.....nothing because nobody has seen the 40 year forecast yet......the proof is in the proof baby......That and it is law is it not......once again it looks like a fast track or end round by the liberals trying to close files and promises....without doing it the right way......you know what i'm talking about , most liberals cried and cried , even kicking their feet....because the Cons had not produced the right numbers.....Numbers designed to scare the public.......but now it's OK....showing the 40 year plan was stupid.....IT's law baby show us the numbers......

What does ferry range have to do with anything....that's with no load or cargo.....not much good on a SAR call without no load is it....put some weight in the plane and you'll see the range drops a lot......what is the range with max payload anyways...... Neither are you or smallc but it has not stopped the both of you.....but once again your sticking up for however choose this plane because they can do no wrong..... over the experts with in DND, and the only point you can come up with is price.....but how can be...All the aircraft have not been priced out to 40 years.....and hear I thought that was law....or have the liberals changed that......

This is going round and round ......Why did the Military want the C-27J and why.....was it just because they liked the colors it came in, maybe it was the free lunch.....then ask this question why the C295......or do you have some insider information.....that your not saying...why the experts advice was not taken....

Yes because Canada has taken great care of our military by equipping it with the latest and greatest equipment available..... it has kept their numbers at a whooping 65,000 personal, that could take Toronto on a good day.....of course that's not saying much , it is Toronto after all....and our military has a long history of plotting coups and such things...... The military is not the threat that you paint it to be.....it does not have aspirations of taken over the country....with 65,000 people, or just under 9000 combat troops.... And nobody has said the military should not have oversight, but that is not what we have what we have is micro managing to the extreme, making it almost impossible to get anything done.....but don't take my word on it, check the media for retiring generals and see what they have to say......

Have you researched any SAR exericises......NON Argument you don't know what your talking about.....SAR exericises these type of response all the time......and why is that.....And yes a response would involve as many depts as possiable.....just trying to think what depts would have short take off aircraft with the range to get to a remote area such as the north.....and what if the remote area does not have a landing area long enough to handle hercs....then what ...well there is LAPES drops or para drops.....not the best way to deliver equipment but it can be done....the best way is to have a plane land and off load it....but what in the hell do I know.....

I did not say this aircraft was inadequate for the job, what I did say was this aircraft is not as good as the C-27J, and if you had read my posts in a lot more areas than just payload, ....just for the record the C-27J was the number one choice by the Air force....you know the guys that fly them, it was also the number one pick by the SAR tech community....good fu**ing figure........they are the experts in the field......Now here is the tough question.....what is you qualifications , are you a pilot of a SAR aircraft....do you do SAR for a living....Next question, who has these qualifications with the government.....I mean someone must know something about this topic to disregard the militaries top choice.....maybe taken a ride in a plane once, seen a SAR aircraft at an air show once....maybe even talked to a SAR tech....WOW that would be enough...... Army Guy is just relaying that info that the airforce has made available to everyone......and now asking questions as to why not the airforces model.....the C-27J.....Price keeps coming up and yet no one has released any comparisons at all, nor have they release the 40 year costing that is required by law....this purchase was rammed down our throats because the Super hornet deal had seen the Liberals caught red handed trying to sole source them.....the same shit the cons tried and failed .....the C-27J was not chosen because Justin did not like it.....and because he is an expert on these matters.... keeping in mind I did the same when it was the cons in power as well.....Now i'm labeled a whinner,or complainer ...... just so happens this whinner has dragged young Canadians off the battle field, with injuries that are horrific in nature ....all because of poor choices made by our civilian government in the world of purchasing.... because it was cheaper, or made in a certain place, or they liked it because of the many offsets it provided.....not once was the life of Canadian soldiers taken into consideration as the prime reason to buy something......And over time you develop this attitude.....Many of you say you support the military, except when it comes down to money and funding....then it is fuc* them.....then don't need shit.....Ya I see all the eyes drop to the ground , you start kicking some dirt around with your feet....because you know it is true....I've earned my right to complain or whine.....I have paid my taxes just like you do......Don't like it then don't respond to my posts.....That is my rant for the day....

You seem to think that all SAR consists of is a plane a couple of SAR techs and they are good to go, and while that may be true if they are responding to a single engine aircraft loss , but the load rating s come into play when there is a multi engine aircraft loss in a remote engine.....with dozens or several hundred people on board....Now a few SAR techs are just not enough, lets complicate it even more and say it is in the winter.....Now dozens of SAR techs will need to respond, they will also need generators, tents, heaters, skidoo's , equipment to build a larger runway to bring in larger aircraft such as the Hercs. So you need a smaller aircraft capable of hauling larger loads into short temporary airfields to get set up and to assist with evac of wounded passengers......This is where the Buff and twin otter came in...... The Buffalo has been used in many other taskings other than SAR, as well....just because it is painted bright yellow does not preclude it from doing other missions......while in the artic on Op hurricane they had a Buffalo running fuel drums to remote airfields in the high north......it also delivers cargo when needed to northern communities when it is critical, all sorts of none SAR related tasks..... This is exactly why civilians should not have input on military purchases.....if the government wants to control purchases control the funding aspect.....here is your funding go buy something........this is why DND advice is so important as they are the experts in field... WHY did the air force want the C-27J, nobody knows because nobody cares......

On the other hand there is no evidence that this aircraft is capable of do the job.....as we have not seen any of the tests results or 40 year forecasts....

Cheaper does not make it the best aircraft for the job....does it....and besides how would we know what each contract was worth, we have yet to see any 40 year prices and comparisons.....so how do we make a informed decision.....how do we know that the liberals just purchases this aircraft for it's own agenda....we dont' do we.....Have you ever asked your self "WHY" did the military want this specific aircraft.....was it the SAR guys that fell in love with it because it was all of that and more..... because you got your feelings hurt, big deal....business is business.....they had something we wanted....and because someones got punch in the hurt locker, will cross that product off the list...... As for the F-35 I guess we see it from different sides of the story.....I see it as a political mistake....a man trying to act like he knew all about the program.....and had made a decision even before he was briefed on it as PM.......and did not want to look bad.....now that is a good reason to turn down a product....because I said so that's why....it is the same....reason....LM did not want any of the hassles of trying to sell Canada anything after it got dumped for no reason at all from our 9 bil fighter project.....well not for no reason because it was a con project....and the PM did not like it..... There are thousands of aircraft that could be considered capable aircraft.....and we did buy one......just not the one the military wanted...you know the experts in the field....but what do they know .....and we wonder why we have so much problems with procurement in Canada....not just with the military but right across the board......

I did not say you could not debate, but that is not what you are doing you are pointing your anger at all English persons as if we were the ones that have done all you have said the English have done....My father grew up in , Montreal, area, in Verdun....it used to be an English area , not any more, but he does not share your anger....things change my point is your anger is coming out in your posts....and it is putting people on the defensive.....it is not debating but just you yelling...... The current government is not of my choosing....just one more assumption you have about English people, I voted conservative....on the last election....and just for the record, the current PM is Justin trudeau he is from Quebec, and he is a Frenchmen.....like you....he just does not share your views...at least not openly to the public....Why would it not become a number one priority to keep Canada together.....you seem to have this impression of the English want you guys out of our great nation.....but it is not true...most of us know the bill that it would cost if Quebec was to separate.....major comprise would have to come from both sides....IE on debt, who gets what, as in portions of the military, coast guard, rcmp...etc etc...and land brigde from the east to the west....which was a sticky point last referendum. a million questions would need to be answered and put into law....before Quebec would see a border change....not going to happen over night it would take years, before action could be settled and generations to finally ironed out..... Are you saying that the Acadians were not French men and women from France at one time that you share a common back ground with .....and yet over time they have separated from true Quebecois in Quebec.... and become something different Acadians, who do not think of themselves as Quebecois but rather Acadians whos' loyality lies with France....not Quebec....... , and as I have said before many of the French people from Quebec that I've talked to, don't even consider Acadians French.....and if all this is the case why do you care if PEI has only a few French schools....or NS had very little , they are after all Acadians....not true Frenchmen from Quebec.... I think it is just one more excuse for the French in Quebec to whine about..... I would hope so....one your population base is a lot larger than that of NB, plus the fact that French is required to work in most places in Quebec....not so much in NB....French is required in French towns and villages, plus most government jobs, federal or provincial ....the fact remains that in NB there is no fighting over languages, we have for the most part worked with French and English to make things work.....And if it can happen in NB where we don't have 1/1000 of your resources....then i'm sure things can work out between French and English in the rest of Canada.....Learning another language is popular in NB, in 2009 the school system had tried a 50/50 school year, for half the year everything in school would be French, the other half English.....it failed, but it was not brought in gradually.....families could not help with school work because parents did not understand enough French....the kids picked it up slowly and by the end of that school year were doing alright....but the program was canceled, and we returned to a French immersion program....which is still popular....I think learning a second language is important, is that second language to be French....not sure, here in New Bruswick sure, nut in alberta, sask, I think I would be studing Chinese, Russian, or something else.... This is what I mean....I have not tried to erase anything French from this country.....you imply that all English Canadians are doing this.....and yet most of our nations leaders have come from Quebec.....and are French....and some how the war is still ongoing.....I wish Quebec would see the same thing....the war is over , you lost....the English won....that was many many many moons ago....today we are one country with one flag.....that both French and Englishmen and women have stood up for and fought under the same flag, not once but 4 times....we have said to the world "WE ARE CANADIANS" and we will stand up for this country and all of her commitments, here and abroad.....................now that might not mean anything to you.....but it does to mean....and im sure it means a lot to the proud French members of the Vandoos, 2 RBC, and the rest of the French units that have served this nation with honor..... You might want to take a look at your history books, Labrador was given to NFLD in 1809.....in 1927 that was the year that the borders were being disputed by Quebec.....And while Quebec may be right the border may not be were it once was, Quebec has grown in other ways during this times as well, a lot of Ruputs land was given to Quebec to administer as well. besides how many people does it effect....that far up north.....is really something Quebec can not live with out.....and your right charging NFLD a fair price would have been reasonable......But that's not what happen is it.....that is why NFLD in 65 years will have made 1 bil....while Quebec manged to make 18 bil....is that a fair price....for a poor province...one of the poorest at the time.....and if it was so fair....why is NFLD now building under sea cable to transfer power to NLFD then on to NS.....at the cost of 22 bil, is it because Quebec treated them fairly....or because they got a raw deal ....and now Quebec will get 0 of the new power generation plants electricity. I'm not ready to spill any French Canadians blood, for me that would be the worst day of any Canadian lives.....to fight our brothers in arms...would be a sad day......but then again I do not make the rules nor do I make the decisions in this country........but if comprise of both sides does not work, then it may have to be settled in other ways.........the last referendum , do you think that the CF-18 from Quebec were sent on exericise by mistake in the US, once they arrived they're aircraft were grounded, under US guards......do you also think that most of 5 brigade was sent to New York state for exericise as well and they were not allowed to leave those bases.....do you think that was because Canada was afraid of what might happen in Quebec, that they were not willing to take some precautions by removing French military forces out of Quebecs area, so Canada does not lose control of them...................why was 2 Brigade put on alert, all leave canceled, soldiers put on readiness alert.....it had to have a reason....but why.....because the military option was there if need be.....so as much as i'd like to say they will be no armed forces that enter into Quebec ....after a separation vote...to secure interests of Canada.....I do not make the decisions here in Canada....nor do I know what is going to happen....but there are options....

No, I'm sure it is you.....and we are not counting when you were learning to drive, anyways you'll always be my favorite.....

Has anyone heard of the new maintence contract as part of the purchase.....

why don't you do some research on SAR exericises in the past....they regularly exercises responding to a large aircraft crash in a remote region.......how many people on a 747 anyway....you think you might get away with treating all those people with a pup tent and a few band aids....not to mention heaters, generators, canvas, skidoos, equipment to prepare runways for larger aircraft.....better yet research what our SAR techs do....and what equipment they have to do it....then tell me how do they get all that shit from airforce bases to remote regions..... It's not about the liberals .....hey kudos for closing the file.....but why go through all this effort if your not going to get it right the first time.....it's about getting the right equipment for the job....I know it is a alien concept to you.....but try it sometime.....

Your right SmallC it is the C295W my bad....as I have already suggested the price difference would be migrated by a common parts shared with the C-130J fleet, such as engines, and many other parts...by reducing the logistic footprint, and initial purchase of spares already in the military system.... They might have been arrogant....when telling us, they would not support ex US aircraft. but we were going to buy airplanes off of them, not take them to bed.....if they have a product we wanted , one that would service our needs....why not..... I don't hear you talking about why lockmart pulled out their offer, when our prime minister told the world we would not be buying the F-35.....Lockheed offered to provide a specialized SAR version of the C-130J....if I was in Lockmart shoes I would think that was a little arrogant , but we still do business with them on a daily basis....go figure... That is the go to statement for all liberals.....it was DND fault because they were dishonest.....how a source....to back up that claim.....maybe , just maybe they wanted equipment that would go the distance....and do the job when you get there.

Not sure what sources your using , I used airbus, and C-27J sites.....here is what I found.... Max speed for C-27J was 602 Km/H while the max speed for C295W was 576 kM/H , but wait a min......the cruising speeds get even better....for the C-27J cruises at 583 KM/H while the C295W cruises at just 480 KM/H .....cruising speeds are what the aircraft normally fly at.....and the difference is almost 100 KM/H.....not 11 as you suggested..... Payloads for the C-27J are 25,353 lbs vice C295W which is only 20,400 a difference of 5000 lbs.....why do we mention payloads...well there is more than just throwing a couple of SAR techs out the back.....the aircraft is used for all SAR duties hauling supplies/ materials etc... to and from a remote air crash, or what ever , along with picking up mass causalities from the site...5000 lbs could mean more people to evac.....so it does make a difference....it also means 5000 lbs more equipment hauled to the site.....such as skidoo's, medical tents, and equipment, more SAR techs.....the main difference is the C295W the floors in the the C295W are not reinforced to handle heavy cargo or vehs.....Kind of important..... Not only can it carry more it can carry it farther.....range is something you have to look at..... Not to mention SAR aircraft can be tasked with other missions, just as the others( Buffalo and hercs) where, artic re-supply of remote airstrips, med evac to remote artic areas, assisting other military pers in other artic operations.....such as OP Hurricane , replacing the back up batteries for the phone lines.....So there is more to their mission than you may think..... my other criticisms included the C-27J shares a lot of common parts with the C-130J.....hence a much cheaper, and manageable logistics tail....which would make up for the initial price tag difference over the bil years we keep them....Over all they make up some large differences.....important differences.... Why do you think the Airforce wanted the C-27J in the first place.....But what the F*** do they know, other than they fly those missions everyday, how many does the federal government fly again.....let me tell you ZERO.....they don't fly, the don't perform SAR missions, they know squat when it comes to SAR....and the info they think they know has been given to them by the military......shit I read a book about space flight once doesn't make me an astronaut does it.....

And hear I thought you were Canada's favorite Cracker/ tree hugger.

Liberals have announced that it will go with EADS-CASA C295M to replace the long serving Buffalo Aircraft serving the west coast and the older C130H aircraft serving the east coast.....Good on the liberals for closing a file that has been open for more than 14 years, the same file that both the liberals and cons have kicked around for far to long.....and yet another example of how Canada can not purchase anything in short order....even when lives were on the line..... But why the C295M, is it truly the best aircraft for the job.... perhaps not, I've been told that it is the cheapest....but then again is the cheapest what we really want.....The C295M is the slowest of all the aircraft tested, it offers a smaller narrower cargo space....it's floor is not reinforced to haul heavy loads or vehicles, but it is cheaper to maintain.....The contract also covers all maintance on the aircraft for 25 years....with an option of 15 more years if needed.... The C-27J is faster, it is much wider, it's floors are reinforced to handle vehicles, or heavy cargo, it is also compatible with the C-130J, which include engines, and a vast array of other parts...so there is a savings when it comes down to parts and logistical costs.....It was the militaries favorite going into the competition because it could be used in other areas of the forces as well, such as an Airborne platform, hauling cargo into the north with skies , because it had a shorter take off and landing than the C295M.....Yes it is true the company that makes the C-27J said they would not support EX US C-27J if we purchased them....in the interests of protecting their company and products.....which may of caused some discourse among some Canadians....but then again some times we need to just get over ourselves and purchase the best machine for the job or jobs..... Another tid bit Lockmart aslo decided to offer Canada a specialized verision of the C-130J SAR, with a shorter airframe....but decided to drop that offer when Canada, or should I say the liberal party decided it would rule out the F-35 from it's fighter jet ...competition...imagine that.... It has been mentioned that sometimes the government needs to save the military from itself....at first I was not sure what the poster meant by that, as I was asking the question why is it that the government always picks the exact opposite of what the military expresses would be the best option.....Like some how, some where in the liberal cabinet there is a subject matter expert on military matters, that knows more about what our country needs than the men and women serving this great nation.....and this is the only dept that we do this with.....do this same people get involved with choosing the next RCMP squad car, or Helos....do they pick out Coast Guard ships.....That is not the role of the government, their role is to mange the file, and funding.... So while DND might need to be saved from itself , lets look at some of the choices our government has made for our Military.....lets start with the LSVW, built by western star in BC, now defunct, this vehicle had failed all of it's testing done in Canada, and was taken to the desert in the US in order to pass the basic tests...because we have so much desert here in Canada..... G-wagon, to replace the litis jeep in Afghanistan.....weeks after it's delivery an IED totally destroys a G wagon killing 2 soldiers wounding another plus taking the life of a diplomat, later it is found to be to top heavy, and prone to rolling over, which takes more lives of soldiers due to role overs.... Sea king replacement.....nice job on this one.....Britain continues to fly it's fleet of EH-101 for more than a dacade now....and we have completed delivery of how many operational aircraft ..... LAV III replacement project...intended to replace our worn out lavs out of Afghanistan plus replace the missing vehs requires at units.that were never ordered.....later the project is deemed to expensive then turns into an over haul of a large part of the lav fleet not the entire fleet....then with some saving s they purchase the TPAV intended to replace Coyote recce vehs.... The list goes on forever....the point is Our government has a long history of buying crap for our military, when they lack the experience or know how to do so......kind of like sending your wife out to buy your power tools.....yes sometimes she surprises you with wonderful things like C-130J and C-17....go thing there was no other example on the market.....but most of the time she brings home cheap shit....that does not do the job very well.....only these tools and machinery they are buying lives depend on that.....but lives don't matter....and think of this for a moment if our soldiers lives do not matter just what do you think yours is worth.....

You have a funny way of trying to make people see your issue, because it is to clouded with anger in all your posts....not addressed at the federal government but rather the English people here on this forum as if they had something to do with the current state of your culture......I get it your emotional tied to this topic.....but the rest of us are not, so much.....it is not that we don't care, it is just not in our top 10 things to care about....something you fail to understand.....as I am sure the price of lobster does not have a direct influence in your life...your taking out your frustrations at the readers here, not debating they should be directed at the federal government .,....who is a Frenchmen, with shin in the game.....why is he not making this a priority in his government ? The north of NB is the "North shore" and it is here that unless your familiar with the dialect and both languages, English , French, and Maritimer you will struggle.....so much so that even Quebecois have given up on them......see they don't fly the Quebec flag , they fly the Acadian flag.....those that I've talked to do not consider them self Quebecois.....but rather Acadian two separate cultures....in southern NB you'll find more traditional French, areas around places such as Moncton etc....not many Acadians here....It is in these areas that French schools are having issues with filling their schools with French students.....because only 25 % of the population of new students are fluent in French...The problem is not enough schools but rather finding the people to speak French....it is the culture in that part of the province , filled with small fishing industries or forestry, and farming....Not a lot of money in those industries....those that do receive higher education go on to work in other areas of the country, some in Quebec most in English Canada.....and yet they are provided with both languages and given free choice to decide.... I don't have a double standard, when I was 16 my father , who was in the military, serving in ST Hubert, at the time....I did not speak any French at the time....and to find work moved back to NB with my mother. Was I bitter NO, if one wanted to find work in Quebec one needed to speak French, that was the only solution.........I'd also like to remind you French is a minority here in New Brunswick, less than 30 % of the citizens that live here are French.....but once again you forget that.....and yet for a have not province it maintains both schools systems ....but at a cost...have you've driven on NB roads lately....we don't get big federal government contracts, nor do we have the tax base to make a real difference....and while you said it is not that expensive to do both.....I think Quebec and PEI, NB would differ with you.....here in NB both French and English schools are closing , at the rate of 15 -20 per year in order to save funding.....but enough about PEI....I find it funny that a self proclaimed Quebecois is complaining about the rest of Canada, when the only province that is bilingual is NB....New Brunswick is leading the way for both the English and French.....and not Quebec....who has declared it self unilingual..... Now if you step back for just a moment and take a look at Quebec, do you really think that French is not in danger of becoming a lost language....even English is in decline these days, take a look at western BC, where Chinese is a better language to learn than French or English....same can be said in a lot of major cities, where our grand melting pot is not so melted....and many different ethic groups still hold on to their cultures...... Our nation is evolving and what it will look like in 20 or 30 years is anyone's guess...but it will not look like anything we see today.....you either embrace change or get left behind.... NFLD stole Labrador, your funny .....man you guys don't give up......Labrador was transferred to NFLD in 1809, long time to keep a grudge.....since then Quebec's borders have changed even more.....since that date time to give it up..... I guess we have different stories.....here is the short story....in NFLD wanted to sell it's power to the outside world ...But it needed to cross Quebec first.......Quebec said NO, you'll have to sell your power to us... ....it had nothing to do with risks.....it was a project funded by NFLD and the federal government, only at the time , they did not have the funding/ tech available to bypass Quebec.....in other words, Quebec took advantage of NFLD state a poor province at the time....and forced it to sell for peanuts....what the hell it's just a bunch of English guys right..... It should be noted the second project will see under sea cable being run from Labrador to NFLD....then to NS.....Quebec will be by passed.....how's that for making friends , and promoting French culture..... Hey you want to call it poutin , call it poutin, but the rest of the world, including the UN, see's it as a province within Canada's borders....one has to win a referendum first before you get the title of nation or state.....as for the people of Quebec I think they are happy being Canadian.....they had a chance to separate and what happened....How is the Blocs power base any ways still as strong.....How much has all this talk of separation cost the country in dollars I wonder....and if you do separate I wonder what the borders will look like....id Quebec ready for a whole new look.....I briefly remember the last demands Quebec made before it said it would separate.....1/2 of everything, but none of the debt.... and do you really think the Rest of Canada will stand for no access to the Maritimes, there needs to be a land bridge.....wonder how much money will be spent sorting all that crap...not to mention the mass of people moving....major corporations moving....what will Quebec gain and what will it lose....my bet is everyone is going to come out big losers.....for what so you can call Quebec a nation.....there will consequences for all of us.....perhaps even blood spilt.....to solve them.....until then we are all Canadians, some happier than others....

There may be change coming, but as your article suggests that by 2027, electric vehs will only represent a 25 % of the market share....that means that 75 % of all vehs on the road will still be run by ICE......Not enough to drive the market in any direction.....German is making a claim that it will not be able to keep.....Besides do you really think that all the fossil fuel companies are going to just role over and die.....they are not going to try to protect their trillions of dollars of annual income......Shit by 2030 we will still be using coal....let alone fossil fuels.....

You got anger issues, over something that you and I or for that matter anyone else on this board does not have the ability to fix......your preaching to the wrong crowd....but to you anyone that is English is the right crowd....when all your doing is setting everyone on the defensive......all of us here are concerned about what is happening in our own worlds....not 1000 kms away...... My impression is your angry.....and your expressing this angry at a crowd who, can not do anything about it...... French is dying.....here in NB they are having issues filling French only schools, because the French are no longer fluent in French.....and the numbers decline every year.....and it is not a Quebecois thing.....I mean really almost all the French from Quebec I've talked to don't even consider the Acadians French..... most of the time it is to enlarge French speaking numbers....but really Acadians don't speak French it is half French, half English, and half Maritimer....they don't fly the flue de lie.....they fly the Acadian flag or flag from France.... WOW, once again with PEI, the smallest province in the nation, also one of the poorest.....where tax dollars only go so far, as they do not have the tax dollars Quebec has nor the population......SO while now in 2009 they have opened a French school, another WOW......to preserve the French language in a province that is 95% English.....now I bring this up because French is not the primary language nor is it the secondary language.....if you want a job in PEI you have to speak English.....not French, Chinese, Japanese ....but English.....just like in Quebec one has to speak French, or you don't work......If the Acadians wanted to preserve their French....they can home school their children, or move.....but at the end of the day, if they want to work in PEI, they learn English.........end of story.....now in PEI there is not much for work, one plants potatoes, fishes, or works at the fries factory....Not many NASA scientist come from PEI......or for that matter the entire maritimes.....SO while you feel slighted that it has taken 2 centuries to get a French school....it has come at a cost of something else......kind of hallow victory.....Maybe if Quebec is so concerned about it's culture declining you guys can help out in provinces like PEI....with some funding....I mean shit how much has Quebec stolen from New found land in electricity over the last 20 years..... Welcome to reality, just when everyone thinks they know the rules they change them.....not just for the French.....but for everyone......feel slighted by the government get in line because it is a long one....still have not even begun to fix the native issue yet, so it could be a while.... ....want Mr trudeau to say sorry Quebec on TV......buck up....rub some dirt on it like the rest of us do.....and get on with it.... Quebec is a province.....that likes to think it is a nation.....your big dreamers, like everyone else in Canada.....separation is not just a French thing, the west has been looking at it for decades as well, they're tired of hauling our all asses around for all this time.....But for today Quebec is a province within Canada.....and while your at home call it what ever you like....but when we step out into reality it is a province.....one of many that makes up our great nation called Canada...... That's what I think that you do not want to discuss it, but rather fight over it.....because no one here can do anything about it....we all have something we don't like about our government.....Canada is far from perfect.....but I can tell you this.....there are plenty of worse places to be.....

Not sure where all this anger comes from, Benz you seem to think ALL English people are against you and the French culture....it is simply not true....maybe you , and Quebec should take a page from NB history....you know Canada's only Bilingual province.....where the French school districts have been up and running for decades....Here in NB the whole education school system is under attack, and it is the first place they look to make cuts....both French and English schools have suffered losses... But we , in NB are not whining and complaining that the world is out to destroy us....New Brunswick is leading by example , hoping that someone will follow instead Quebec declares itself unilingual and blaming their lost culture and language on the English pig dogs .....how is that working out for you....making any progress, gaining any sympathy in English Canada Sorry to break it to you but we live in a nation Called Canada....not Quebec or anything else, Canada....and we are all Canadians....regardless of what people want to call themselves in Quebec...... Now had the French been successful on the plains of Abraham, things might be different ...So now you have to play the cards you've been dealt.....