Moonbox

In Red China, Chinaman not allowed wag finger. He get firing squad. Family billed for bullet.

Not true. The pagan Romans conquered it. They converted to Christianity on their own. Don't imagine. They would have burned most of them. The Medieval Catholic Church was one of the blindest and most vicious institutions the world has ever seen. The Islamic world, on the other hand, was a bastion of science, tolerance and enlightenment. Somewhere along the way (long before European colonialism and long after the Crusades) it decided to follow the way of European Catholics and turn stupid.

This is one issue I really have against the Conservatives. Biofuels and renewable fuels right now are just a giant waste of money and a pander to rural votes. It's inefficient, expensive and provides no noticeable environmental benefits. All it does is raise both food and gas prices and make farmers more wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

Fair enough, but serial killers and pedos I would contend are not so much an institutional failure in our society as they simply very visible and disgusting exceptions. We have lots of problems in our system. That doesn't mean we can't comment on the problems with other systems. The thread itself was set up to be a discussion on how a good number of nutjob fanatics wet their pants when anyone does anything they feel is hostile to their religion. Bringing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Catholic Church and whatnot into the discussion was a red herring. It's not really propaganda anymore when the nastiness that's talked about is enforced and confirmed by the other side. The difference between the fundamentalist Islamic world, and the western world, is that people flee to the west to tell their stories, while nobody in the west flees to the Islamic world. We hear the stories first hand here. I have two Persian friends (both women actually) who can readily confirm it. I know that's just hearsay on the forums, but we have enough people of different backgrounds to get an idea of how ugly things are over there.

You contradict yourself with your own point. Most would agree the treatment of women in some of these cultures is pretty ass backwards. Your defence for it is to bring up completely different problems we have in our own culture. Bringing up paedofelia in the Church system as a defence for barbaric treatment of women elsewhere is a giant red herring. No culture is perfect, but one that murders women for learning to read is not worthy of any respect.

No, you're missing the point entirely. Serial killers in the Western world are universally viewed as villains and violent nuts. They're put away and never see the outside of a jail again. Sure, some serial killers get away with it. Unfortunately you can't catch them all. The fundamental, and very important difference, is that those violent killers are not accepted in our society and we remove them, or at least try to. Woman are murdered regularly in many Arab cultures for doing things like trying to read or showing their legs. Their murderers are celebrated as men of honour and faith. Comparing the two is absolutely brainless.

I know in your clouded little world that Canadian soldiers are deliberately and maliciously handing prisoners off to be tortured, but even if that was the case we'd still not be on the same level as the Taliban. You can at LEAST put up an argument as to why torturing a murderer for information could save people's lives or something, but burning a girl's face off with acid for wanting to read is as plainly evil as it gets.

Because spending hasn't increased at all under McGuinty right? RIGHT?!?

You're right, which is why I view politics so cynically. I don't really like sounding like anything to be honest. There are a lot of things I don't like about every party and I tend to retch every time I cast my ballot, but I do know (and I'm not expecting you or anyone to share my views) that I am not really a very strong advocate of social program spending. Things like healthcare etc are important but then I think our welfare and EI systems are completely broken and the NDP seem to champion the cause of making it more broken and easier to abuse. It makes it hard for me to even look their way.

Madmax I'll agree with you that there are some issues with our tax system and Free Trade etc, but you generally tend to ignore that the deficit happens for two reasons. Social spending (past and present) is a HUGE part of our national debt and a main reason why taxes have to be high in the first place. You can blame corporate cronyism all you want for the deficit, but that's not where most of the money is going.

Afghanistan is easy to conquer. It's the backwards armpit of the world. Holding on to it and changing it has always been the problem, from Darius to present day included.

Intelligence agencies aren't really equipped/designed to understand 3000 years of Afghan barbarism and backwards culture. Big mistake yeah, especially because there've been lessons learned before (Soviets, Alexander the Great, the Persians etc) but now what?

Millions China Man/Woman move to Canada/US and tell their stories (not Red Chinese stories but real stories). I hear China stories from Chinese students all time. Few Western Man/Woman move to China, because not really allowed. Red Chinese don't want free people living there. We no want to anyways though. Rather move to South Korea or Japan. If you want me click your link, explain what it say first. If not, it just pointless link.

I don't think they realized how messed up a country it actually was. At this point now, it's all trying to get out while doing the least damage possible. Bailing out of nowhere will make it worse or at BEST no better than when they started. I think the soldiers that died there would appreciate it if what they did made some sort of difference.

No. It because you brainwashed China man and try to persuade us with made up lie. Hard to trust anything you say. When use Youtube videos to prove points, shows how stupid your argument is. Shows you have no proof and not understand how to argue well.

Mhmm...and al Quaeda wasn't training and operating from Afghanistan at all right??? I mean obviously we're in Afghanistan for their vast natural resources and bountiful land........................... The place was a wasteland worthless to even the ancients.

bjre: Youtube not good source for get facts. Youtube be very unreliable and there lots made up stuff. I can post videos there. Doesn't mean true.

Yes that's my point. The Liberals probably hold the biggest chunk of the middle class vote so I'm not so sure I agree with bloodyminded's claim they're the ones most vocal against corporate tax cuts.

Certainly not, but it leads us to question where you're drawing the lines. None of what you said really has any bearing either on my original premise, which was that the energy rate increases will hurt the people who are riding hardest on the green energy bandwagon. The irony seems to escape you.

I read your whole post and I agree with lots of it but I have an issue with this point here. Taxes and revenue are required, yes, but the question is how much is required and how much spending is just an outright waste of money, then there is the patronage and crap that goes along with it. I'm not saying the NDP's ideas are all bad, but there are a lot that make me cringe. Free trade is a great idea, in principle, providing there is a level playing field. Trade with China, however, or Mexico etc, is probably doing more harm than good. You're right, I can get cheap jeans and buy more shit, but generally it's just shit I don't need and never use. My life hasn't been improved at all.

Really? Just the middle class folk eh? We're all calling for higher corporate taxes? That's why the Liberals have been so anti-corporation for the last decade or so??

They invaded China??? This is news to me!

My point was that the people clamoring the loudest for environmental change and Green Energy are the ones it's going to hurt the most. FYI I'm part of the (young) middle-class majority. I'm not speaking from an altar. I just can't relate to idiots who run themselves off a cliff. Warren Buffet's so rich right now he can safely say whatever he wants. The world could fall down around him and he'd still be a billionaire.

bush this is priceless. Please don't stop. I want to bookmark this thread.

I sure do. The whole platform of the NDP last election revolved around it too.