buffycat

Another fine example of the debating skills so eloquantly displayed here! Argus did you mispell your moniker? Forget an 'e' somewhere?

Ahhh,..yeah....you should have that looked after........ Dancer: Quit trolling. It's not adding anything to the boards. Do you have anything to say about the posted article? No? Then why respond to this thread? The Harper 'Conservatives' have advocated longer and 'minimum' sentencing for petty drug offences, as well they have given the nod to the idea of private prisons. The above situation is not an isolated event. There are many botched raids, of which the innocent parties have suffered injuries and like in this one, death. Now, talk about the subject or kindly refrain from comment.

ROFLMFAO Well, that was incredibly well informed and articulate! Congratulations Dancer, you're improving all the time, it adds so much to your argument and debating skills! Don't know about you, but I find it strangely convenient that just at the time an international inquest is about to be launched wrt Hariri, that all hell breaks out in Lebanon. But you keep on improving, Dancer, your comments are oh so enlightening.

Weaponeer and Scriblett: The analogy is false. Canada is not illegally occupying Quebec through the use of military force. Canada does not impose 'English only' settlements within Quebec connected by 'English' only roads, manned of course at numerous checkpoints by 'English Defense Forces' (EDF). Canada does has not arrested and detained close to 700,000 Quebeckers for daring to fight off the EDF, including children. Canada does not make flyovers nightly over populated areas creating sonic booms in Quebec. Canada has not built a wall securing the diminishing English neighbourhoods within the boundaries of Quebec, nor has Canada restricted travel between say Montreal and the Pontiac. Canada allows Quebec to fish and move freely about in waters off the Quebec borders! Need I go on? Your analogy is flawed.

I don't know if anyone will remember this. I know Kuzadd will, we discussed this on another board some time ago. Well it seems that not only did these cops raid the wrong house, killing the woman who lived there - but also it seems they planted evidence! Documents Reveal: Cops Planted Pot on 92-Year Old Woman They Killed in Botched Drug Raid Atlanta resident Kathryn Johnston's death has finally been exposed to be a case of police coverup in clear example of the insanity of the war on drugs. According to federal documents released this week, these are the events that led to Kathryn Johnston's death and the steps the officers took to cover their tracks. snip By 6 p.m., they had the legal document they needed to break into Kathryn Johnston's house, and within 40 minutes they were prying off the burglar bars and using a ram to burst through the elderly woman's front door. It took about two minutes to get inside, which gave Johnston time to retrieve her rusty .38 revolver. Tesler was at the back door when Junnier, Smith and the other narcotics officers crashed through the front. Johnston got off one shot, the bullet missing her target and hitting a porch roof. The three narcotics officers answered with 39 bullets. Five or six bullets hit the terrified woman. Authorities never figured out who fired the fatal bullet, the one that hit Johnston in the chest. Some pieces of the other bullets -- friendly fire -- hit Junnier and two other cops. The officers handcuffed the mortally wounded woman and searched the house. There was no Sam. There were no drugs. There were no cameras that the officers had claimed was the reason for the no-knock warrant. Just Johnston, handcuffed and bleeding on her living room floor. That is when the officers took it to another level. Three baggies of marijuana were retrieved from the trunk of the car and planted in Johnston's basement. The rest of the pot from the trunk was dropped down a sewage drain and disappeared. ***************** Ahhh yes, the War on Some Drugs - just as the War on Some Terror! All smoke and mirrors, based on lies, and complete with distortions! This is what Harper would like to bring here.

The Salvador Option in Beriut excerpt: According to United Press International, Stratfor's report on the Hariri crime concluded that the Lebanese assassinations were "so sophisticated that few in the world could have done it." Burton told UPI that only five nations had such advanced resources- Israel, US, Britain, France and Russia. "This type of technology is only available to government agencies." Burton then asked: "Suppose that these bombings were 'merely collateral'? That the true target in the plot is the Syrian regime itself? If Damascus were being framed, who then would be the likely suspect?" "Israeli intelligence is standing behind this crime", claimed German criminologist Juergen Cain Kuelbel. In his book "Hariri's Assassination: Hiding Evidence in Lebanon" he wrote: "Syria is innocent and has nothing to do with that crime or the other assassinations." Kuelbel discovered that the jamming system used to disable the Hariri convoy's electronic shield was manufactured by Netline Technologies Ltd of Tel Aviv, an Israeli company co-developed with the Israel Defense Forces and Israeli law enforcement agencies, and sold through European outlets. The UNIIIC dismissed Kuelbel's findings as "ridiculous" and irrelevant. But two months after the Hariri convoy was destroyed, Israeli-manufactured weapons began to appear near the homes and neighborhoods of politicians in Lebanon. On April 14, 2005,UPI reported that Lebanese security forces had discovered six Hebrew-inscribed mortar shells manufactured by Israel on a deserted beach near the southern Lebanese village of Ghaziyeh. Similar missiles and dynamite were also found along a road frequented by Hezbollah officials, and on December 10, 2005. four anti-tank rockets attached to wires ready for detonation were found planted on the road leading to MP Walid Jumblatt's Muktara Palace. In February, 2006 Lebanon's Daily Star and An Nahar reported that Hebrew-marked 55mm, 60mm and 81mm rockets were discovered close to MP Saad Hariri's Qoreitem estate. Similar rockets had also been uncovered near the Majdelyoun home of Saad's aunt, legislator Bahia Hariri near Sidon. While the pro-US/Israeli “March 14” government automatically blamed Syria for the findings, one of several Israeli spy rings was captured trying to assassinate Hezbollah Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah. AFP cited nine "well-trained, professional" paramilitaries who were intercepted with an arsenal of B-7 rocket launchers, anti-tank missiles, pump action shotguns, hand grenades, AK 47 rifles, revolvers, silencers, computers and CDs. Then, in June 2006, Mahmoud Rafea, a mercenary from the South Lebanon Army, (created by Israel during the civil war with $10,000 bonuses) was caught on camera after car bombing two members of Islamic Jihad, the Majzoub brothers. Israel's ynet.com reported that Rafea confessed to committing the Majzoub slayings for Israel's Mossad, as well as to a number of other high level assassinations. ******** Good article with much to think about given the current situation, as well as the recent 'false flag' articles on Entebbe. Same old same old....

I saw these yesterday. Wondered if there would be any mention of this in the so-called NA msm!! Nope - notta - zilch. Given Israel's long history of these type of false flag opertions (which began of course before the state was even created) it makes me wonder exactly how many of these so called jihadist groups are legitimate extremists bent on wiping Israel off the map (!) or how many are just organized patsys set up to further legitimize Israel's "measured" responses (You know targeting of children and civilians and infrastructure). I have to say I am not surprised at all by this. Of the top of my head I recall the Lavon Affair, probably the best well-known example of Israel's false flag propensity. Then there was of course the USS Liberty, which had it it been successful would have been blamed on the Egyptians (yet again), recently too there has been evidence of Mossad setting up fake al-Queda cells in Palestine (more patsys). There is also the favoured use of Canadian passports to carry out these 'missions'! etc etc. One could go on forever - or if anyone here is remotely interested they can google it, or read a bit of Ostrovsky (who is still on a hit list). Interestingly, when one thinks of Zbignew's recent warning of a false flag to be used in order to launch a unilateral strike against Iran. Will it happen? Is it already happening? IMO the biggest threat to Israeli are her own rulers - the idealistic Zionists and racist right wing extremists. It would be good for all to remember the very real terror attacks used by the likes of Hagannah and Irgun against not only the Brits and Arabs in British Mandate Palestine, but also against their own - in order to whip up even more resentment towards the native populations (which of course included Arab Jews, Christians and Muslims). That said, it isn't only the Israelis who use these methods - just recall the SAS is Basra only a couple of years ago! (which is one that we know of!). I think it's pretty safe to say that much of what we see happening in Iraq has false flag written all over it. Margret Hassan's kidnapping and eventual murder comes to mind. IOW for MI6, MI5 and CIA (among others) the use of false flags is SOP. Anyway, great that you posted this. I look forward with eager anticipation to the intelligent discourse that this article may generate on these boards /sarcasm. edited to add: Shin Bet involved in 1976 higjacking Haaretz article Ynet News

Well then, unless you are a total hypocrit I guess it would be fine in your world for the Palestinians to carpet bomb Israel (if they could - as you know they HAVE no military) and these kassams are pretty much a nuisance when compared with the artillery availble to the IDF. BTW - what government? Half of the unity representatives from the Hamas party have been kidnapped by Israel, there is factional fighting going on not only between the main groups of Hamas and Fatah, but also loosely associated extremists whose loyalty to either 'side' is questionable at best. Not to mention that the civilian population has been literally starving for over a year - and you expect WHAT exactly? Both leaderships have made this mess - Israel and PA. Sadly citizens of both groups pay the ultimate price - loss of innocent life and truth be told the deathtoll of Palestinains far far exceeds that of Israelis. Looking back, it would have been better to have recognized Hamas as the elected government and worked with them to impliment the Saudi peace initiative, instead of starving a whole people into chaos and anarchy.

If- and that is a big IF - this does turn out to be the case, how pray tell is this any different than the US funding covert terror cells and death squads? I'm no fan of the ruling admin of Iran - but bombing them is certainly not the solution. Now especially, that they have entered the enrichment phase - or does fallout not concern you? Or could this be a nice little false flag so you two get your wish and get to begin more annihalation of even more innocent human beings? How anyone can so callously call for bombing and killing innocent civilians sickens me, no matter which side it comes from - though oddly I only seem to see it from the one side one this site. *ack*

No, Dancer I'm quite fine thanks. Standing in Baghdad Iran is certainly north of me! Now if I'm in Mosul, Turkey is north of me: Hence: North/northeast and North/Northwest! Now that you've had your fun with diversions here - anything to say about police violence - or is that okay doakey with you?

For those of you here who don't seem to think that Israel has her own homegrown extremists: Eliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings. *** Click on link for full text. I guess this dude extends the same morality to the Palestinians who fight back against the illegal occupation? No? Oh okay. so you see, there are nuts on all sides here.

No one has been calling for war against Turkey,...even though Turkey is massing troops on the iraqi border and may even cross to fight the terrorists ...... Want a map Dancer? Iran is north/northeast of Iraq. Turkey (which has nothing to do with this conversation) is to the north/northwest of Iraq. And the Turks are a little pissed off with the Kurds... but that is a whole other story - why don't you start a thread on it Dancer? Edited to add a bracket and ask Dancer is that was the best he could come up with.

Should this post not be named, "Woman beaten for resisting arrest"? Yes, in fact the Memri link doesn't even use the title that Scriblett wrote: "Police, Improperly Clad Women Clash In Tehran" That is the title from Memriblog. Or should I call it 'selective' memri blog? Anyway - for those here who seem to think anyone is condoning this - please see your reading counsellor or adjust your font size. No one has condoned this, nor the archaic laws which these police are enforcing. What has happened is that it has been pointed out that police violence is not confined to Iran. Is beating and tasering a non violent offender acceptable if it's done in the US or Canada? What about the insane drug laws they have in the US - is it okay then? Or is this just thinly vieled racist attack on Iran - you know since so many of the warmongers these days want to repeat Iraq in her northern neighbour? Would Scriblett have even posted this, say if it occured in Israel? How about the American woman who was beaten very badly on that bus in Jerusalem by orthodox Jews? How's that fit with your freeper view Scriblett?

Gosthacked: Buffycat, is there an english translation for that page?? I can make out about half of it, but my french comprehension is not good. ** No, I haven't found one yet. But this dude Claude Moniquet seems like another Ledeen incarnate. google him and find out for yourself. Warmonger. Fearmonger. "The source for this story is one Claude Moniquet, the head of the ESISC, a Belgian terrorist research center founded in 2002. An interesting fellow, Claude is. This site creates the strong impression that Moniquet is just another neocon yarn-spinner -- Michael Ledeen with a French accent. (He even looks a bit like Ledeen.) Regarding a previous ESISC report on the Western Sahara: "Contrary to all expectations, what emerges in the pages of the report is an embarrassingly amateurish, poorly researched, factually inaccurate, and badly written hatchet job. The most disturbing aspect of the report is not so much its poor quality...but the clear malicious intent of Claude Moniquet and his crew." from a random google sample at this site: http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2007/05/ira...ming-aieee.html (I've never been to cannonfire before - I just grabbed it) If you can find more, post it! Though I think this is bunk

I agree that reduction is key, just not for the same reasons ie global warming. I am no advocate of the over use of fossil feuls as the problems associated with them and the oil industry as a whole are not limited to GW. I would actually argue that the oil industry's sideline products, such as plastics etc., are FAR more worrisome to our ecology - which we all share with every other life form on this planet. I am not a GW supporter, but I am a keen environmentalist - they are not mutually exclusive. I stand by my assertion that GW Hysteria is a diversion for political and financial reasons. However, that is not saying that we need to address our reliance on the fossil feul and petroleum market all round. I think that point is very important to keep in mind - just because one doesn't jump onto the bandwagon of the GW machine does not mean they don't see problems and want sustainable solutions!

AAAARRRGH! more moral then me! for shame! lol,lol, lol........................................... *snicker*

4.6 here.

Hey guys, I took the test. I really do think that what we call 'morality' was founded in beneficial alturism which became encoded during our evolution, as I stated. I find it interesting that the rats wouldn't shock one another, yet when a similar experiment was done with humans almost all of the participants had no problem shocking and causing pain to another - if they thought they were absent of blame, ie not responsible. What does that say about the rats? Or the people?

My glasses are fine Scribblet, but thanks for asking. I was concerned perhaps that yours were a tadd too dark and you might be missing out on some rather key points here! But, alas you are just being you! No comment on how Western women have only recently aquired any kinds of rights eh? What about blacks? Oh it was okay to beat them not even 50 years ago! But oh, our societies are SO much more superior eh? Bah! Go see the eye doctor.

Indeed Kuzad. Here is their homepage: http://www.esisc.org/index.asp They forgot to mention that Iran has a Death Star!!

Ha! Perhaps you need a prescription for your glasses? Perhaps a reading primer? NO one here has condoned the beatings - what they have pointed out is that is occurs elsewhere and continues too. Scribblet - women haven't even had the vote for one hundred years in the West - do you have a comment for that? That how it is only recently that women in the so called enlightened west have even had rights? Give them time, quite screwing with their countries by supporting radical movements, which in turn result in LESS rights for women - just like we see in current day Iraq. Again - the only one here who is saying anyone condones this behaviour is YOU. Ah, but then black and white is such a nice easy way to view others' when you're just about to bomb them to the stoneage eh? As BC Chick said: The dehumanisation begins.

The only one saying that is you Scribblet. I don't think any moral human would suggest for a moment that beating by police is a reasonable approach - whether it happens in Iran, Canada, the US or TimbuckF***two.

Both sides have the right to defend themselves. But I know for you guys the Palestinians are simply animals and should be wiped from the face of the earth eh? Do you need reminding that Israel is occupying Palestinian lands illegally - and thus the Palestinians under international law are actually allowed to resisit that occupation? Also, these Quassams are the equivalent of a third graders' spitball - while the Israeli military might would be the equivalent of the teacher using and Uzi to take that third grader out. Oh, one more thing wrt the baby which was rescued - no one is saying that there are not Israelis who do care - anyways one baby saved amongst how many who have been killed through 'collateral' damages. Get a grip on the numbers - almost 1000 children have been killed by Israeli forces since 2000. No comparison. None.

You have a quote for that? I sure do!! Here ya go: READ it and weep! The Telegraph "Van Creveld is deeply pessimistic about Israel's future, menaced on one side by an increasingly violent and fissiparous Palestinian population and on the other by a would-be nuclear Iran. But he expects his country at least to go down fighting. "We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions," van Creveld declared in an interview in September 2003. "We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that this will happen before Israel goes under."" You may want to read the whole article. Oh, btw Van Creveld is a well recognized Israeli military historian.

With all the discussion in various threads about morality being 'religiously' divined I ran across this article and thought I'd toss it up for discussion. When reading the other threads here I kept thinking that morality was born of a natural alturism, demanded by our evolution as a social creature. It seems that some neurologists have found out this might actually be the case: If It Feels Good to Be Good, It Might Be Only Natural excerpt: "The results were showing that when the volunteers placed the interests of others before their own, the generosity activated a primitive part of the brain that usually lights up in response to food or sex. Altruism, the experiment suggested, was not a superior moral faculty that suppresses basic selfish urges but rather was basic to the brain, hard-wired and pleasurable." snip "Grafman and others are using brain imaging and psychological experiments to study whether the brain has a built-in moral compass. The results -- many of them published just in recent months -- are showing, unexpectedly, that many aspects of morality appear to be hard-wired in the brain, most likely the result of evolutionary processes that began in other species. No one can say whether giraffes and lions experience moral qualms in the same way people do because no one has been inside a giraffe's head, but it is known that animals can sacrifice their own interests: One experiment found that if each time a rat is given food, its neighbor receives an electric shock, the first rat will eventually forgo eating. What the new research is showing is that morality has biological roots -- such as the reward center in the brain that lit up in Grafman's experiment -- that have been around for a very long time." ************ VERY interesting - though I admit it is along the lines that I have always thought.