buffycat

I guess your quite so short and simple statement is the classic admission that you cannot even explain to defend your simplistic argument - such a short tunnel-vision that it is. And of course I'm right! I never had any doubt about that! But, of course, with your having had the nerve - or having lack of knowldege - to compare Iranian-style of "internment" to that of ours was proof enough that you don't make any sense at all. Actually Betsy, I wasn't comparing Iranian style internment to the type employed by Canada - I was noting that according to YOU - internment is justifiable based on 'enemy' (read race/religion) status. Hence - if you feel that Canada had a right as a soveriegn nation to lock up a whole group of people based on where their genetic lineage originated from then by default Iran or any other country would have the same right. Note - I do not think you are right, nor do I think that any group is superior to any other (unlike you - the supremicist). Canada has many skeletons in her closet Betsy - but of course you riegn Supreme!! LOL

By Betsy's reasoning then one could assume that we should be locking up every Afghan immigrant here in Canada! (heck may as well round up every bloody Muslim - just to be safe!!) Let's just face it - the internment was wrong, racist and a shameful act on the part of our forefathers. Period.

Margrace, yes the weather changes - it always does - this is normal. The question boils down to how much human activity is affecting these cycles - and exactly what the variables are (CO2, methane etc). There are also variable which are not in our control, such as the output of the Sun, and indeed the whole of the influence of other cosmic activities (as mentioned in Tim's article). The point is - that even if we are affecting climate in some small way - there are other forces way beyond any of our control. So, before we jump on the bandwagon of Kyoto (or similar) which will cost a tonne of money etc. perhaps we should actually understand things a little bit better. That said, I certainly do not advocate a do nothing approach, as there are other very good reasons to reduce our reliance on fossil feuls and seek sustainable energy alternatives. Erring on the side of caution is always a prudent stance to take. Please note: Tim Patterson is not a Warming denier - he is a scientist and a darn good one at that. His warning is more about avoiding the 'sky is falling' chicken little approach of the Gore/Suzuki alarmists. He also has a very good point about the cooling effects of these cyclical warmings - please note: OUR climate maxima occured 6,000 years ago. We are already climbing the steps towards the next glacial episode. These warm spells along the way, according to the geological record are normal. The real question is what happens when the northern hemisphere becomes too cold to grow food? Too cold to live in? Sure it probably won't happen in our lifetime, but as with the younger dryas sometimes these spells can come on VERY quickly. I do hope others read this article, it's one of Tim's best. (Oh, and one more thing which I find is hardly ever raised by the chicken littles of the Global Warming Alarmist crowd: What about the massive amounts of CO2 released by all of these wars led predominantly by the US military? Gosh, they tell folks - walk don't drive, change your lightbulbs $$$$, but heck don't talk about the airplanes, bombs, bulldozers, tanks, hummers, ships, helicopters etc all consuming a tonne of fossil fuels to spread destruction and death on mostly innocent people! Don't forget to shut your lights off )

There's a clear difference between explaining and defending. Y'know, I'm sick of this horseshit. We have right wingers here on this board who explicitly advocate summary executions, torture, and indiscriminate mass slaughter. But that's a-ok. Someone of the lefty persuasion offers their opinion on the causal chain of terrorism, or questions Canada's involvement in Afhganistan or any other aspect of the "War on Terror" and they get branded as Osama's bin Laden's right hand. It's ridiculous, bullying behaviour (here I will note that there are "left-wing" posters here who are guilty of the same behaviour, but certainly not to the degree as the right and certainly I've seen no lefty speak out in favour of the kind of shit I see right-wingers offer their thumbs up to on a regular basis). The only explanation is that, for some, politics is just another way to excercise their tribal impulses, like sports fandom. It's not about values, morality, what's right (oh, sure, you guys like to mouth the platitudes, but you're not fooling anyone). For some (and again, on both sides) there's no atrocity that can't be excused when its their team that's doing it.</rant> WOW Nice rant. Well said Black Dog.

jbg, the mail I sent YOU was a response to an uncalled for mail you sent me. I simply asked you NOT to PM me again. I reiterate that here. Scathing? Far from it - time for you to get over my rejection of your Personal Message to me. Now, as far as you above answers go: You have NOT addressed the illegal nature of the settlements - established after the 67 war. You have not mentioned the thousands of villages which have been bulldozed to make way for many of these enclaves. Do you not think that watching one's home and livelihood be destroyed, the loss of everything to be somewhat influential as to how that person might feel? Does it justify suicide bombing? (IMO no - but it does explain why the hatred is there - and it's not anti-semitism it is hatred towards those who have destroyed one's life!). So: the destruction of villages and theft of lands (plus marginilisation) has resulted in some blowback - what a surprise! You also refuse to discuss the Wall - which has been deemed illegal by both the Israeli supreme court (who ruled that its course must be moved). This wall winds into Palestinian farms, lands and groves - making sure to keep valuable water resources on the Israeli side - fencing in Palestinians in such a way as to prevent freedom of movement even to their own fields, schools and families. And you wonder why any of these folks might be a tad upset? You also have not really answered what you think of the various members of the Knesset wanting Arabs out of Israel (you know those pesky Israeli Arabs or non-Jews). You only said that these folks are marginalised? Ever here of Avigdor? He isn't marginalised! (anyways I will assume you agree with the removal of all Arabs from Israel). I'm sure there is some hatred towards Jews - as there is just as much towards Arabs. Too bad, since all this hate and mistrust will result in a never ending cycle of violence from both sides - the Palestinians with their pathetic little rocket launchers and the IDF with their ultra modern killing machines. I think what has always astounded me, is that the Jews - perscuted for 'milenia' and kicked out of every darn country they've ever been in over time - could turn around and do the SAME to others. Of course - not all Israelis feel the hate towards the indigenous folks in the area, many rally and protest alongside their Arab brothers and sisters - for a more just, caring and truly democratic Israel - one which treats her neighbours with respect, one which includes all - regardless of religious affiliations. There are many of these voices - sadly drowed out often times by the thugs on BOTH sides of the 'fence'. It's too bad that you can't see both sides of this issue. And only lay the blame on the Arabs - sorry but it takes two to tango. Anyways, I don't expect you to say much wrt the illegality of land confiscation and destruction of Palestinian property - the underlying cause of so much resentment - and sadly so much retalitory violence against otherwise innocent Jews (suicide bombing) or the retalitaions of the IDF against otherwise innocent Palestinians. Keep in mind the ratio is about 5:1 (five dead Palestinians to every dead Israeli) In the last year that ratio has approached ten to one. And you wonder why they are ticked off? You may want to take a gander at some of these brave groups: http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ http://www.ifamericansknew.org/ http://www.icahd.org/eng/about.asp?menu=2 http://www.btselem.org/English/ http://gush-shalom.org/ http://www.cactus48.com/ All of these groups are peaceful, all working towards an understanding, all brave and filled with people of with big hearts! Or, are they all just Jew haters too?? (I guess to you they are! Why don't you write Jeff Halper and tell him he is a Jew hater? How about Uri, he must be one too, accoring to you!) That's it - though let me add one more thing: DO NOT ever PM me again!! (Scathing eh? oooooooo)

This is addressed to those who seem to be in favour of, or at least justifying, internment of people based on race/religion. By advocating internment (for whatever reasons - war security etc) would you then be understanding *if* say Iran interned her 20,000 strong community of Jews, just because of Israel's actions? Seems to me that some here would, using their own 'logic' wrt explaining why internment of the Japanese (or Germans) was acceptable. Personally, I find none of it acceptable.

How is this seditious or treasonous? Is the US not funding Fatah? Do you know who Muhammed Dahlan is? You might want to take a look at this fellow, no wonder many Palestinians don't like him much, nor the Quisling Abbas. IMO the biggest mistake was to ignore Hamas and cut off all aid to the PA back in 2006. (Note: previous to her election to the office of the PA Hamas had just completed a year of ceasefire - yet at the same time Israel still launched her incursions and flights and raids over Gaza and the WB). So, in your own words, and please without insult to my own character, how in the world is Carter treasonous or seditious for speaking the truth?

Thank you Dr. Patterson! Read the Sunspots excerpt: n the sediment, diatom and fish-scale records, we also see longer period cycles, all correlating closely with other well-known regular solar variations. In particular, we see marine productivity cycles that match well with the sun's 75-90-year "Gleissberg Cycle," the 200-500-year "Suess Cycle" and the 1,100-1,500-year "Bond Cycle." The strength of these cycles is seen to vary over time, fading in and out over the millennia. The variation in the sun's brightness over these longer cycles may be many times greater in magnitude than that measured over the short Schwabe cycle and so are seen to impact marine productivity even more significantly. Our finding of a direct correlation between variations in the brightness of the sun and earthly climate indicators (called "proxies") is not unique. Hundreds of other studies, using proxies from tree rings in Russia's Kola Peninsula to water levels of the Nile, show exactly the same thing: The sun appears to drive climate change. However, there was a problem. Despite this clear and repeated correlation, the measured variations in incoming solar energy were, on their own, not sufficient to cause the climate changes we have observed in our proxies. In addition, even though the sun is brighter now than at any time in the past 8,000 years, the increase in direct solar input is not calculated to be sufficient to cause the past century's modest warming on its own. There had to be an amplifier of some sort for the sun to be a primary driver of climate change. Indeed, that is precisely what has been discovered. In a series of groundbreaking scientific papers starting in 2002, Veizer, Shaviv, Carslaw, and most recently Svensmark et al., have collectively demonstrated that as the output of the sun varies, and with it, our star's protective solar wind, varying amounts of galactic cosmic rays from deep space are able to enter our solar system and penetrate the Earth's atmosphere. These cosmic rays enhance cloud formation which, overall, has a cooling effect on the planet. When the sun's energy output is greater, not only does the Earth warm slightly due to direct solar heating, but the stronger solar wind generated during these "high sun" periods blocks many of the cosmic rays from entering our atmosphere. Cloud cover decreases and the Earth warms still more. The opposite occurs when the sun is less bright. More cosmic rays are able to get through to Earth's atmosphere, more clouds form, and the planet cools more than would otherwise be the case due to direct solar effects alone. This is precisely what happened from the middle of the 17th century into the early 18th century, when the solar energy input to our atmosphere, as indicated by the number of sunspots, was at a minimum and the planet was stuck in the Little Ice Age. These new findings suggest that changes in the output of the sun caused the most recent climate change. By comparison, CO2 variations show little correlation with our planet's climate on long, medium and even short time scales. ************* This real research - not the Gorzuki political spin. BTW Dr. Patterson is a very approachable person - give him a call he'll talk to you. He is not funded by the oil industry and pretty much tells it like it is.

Just wanted to know for the next time someone says I'm close to a fruitloop I can honestly say thankfully I'm quite far from it. Gee, nice little insult there Dancer - do you feel better now? My only regret here is that I actually responded to you. Anything to say on topic? Care to address the same questions I have posed to Scriblett? (Or anyone else for that matter?) hmmm? Show me where I have insulted you personally. A nice big quote would do just fine. Otherwise, all I see is insults from you. fruitloop? wingnut? How very mature and intellectual of you! Now, care to talk about the reasons why these boycotts are being proposed? (Whether or not you agree with them or not - there are reasons and they should be discussed). Or will you simply hurl some more insults and derail the topic? Why on earth would I address a fruitloop? Tell you what, when you stop making ignorant insults I will stop thinking of you as a wingnut.

"Why the boycott?" - Because there are people for whom the idea of a pro-Western, modern country ever succeeding is anathema. "Why are such measures even being considered? - To the extent there is any reasoning at all, see answer 1 (I am trying to avoid accusing you of hating Jews) "What REASONS, using FACTS, do those who advocate the boycott use?" - To the extent there is any reasoning at all, see answer 1 (I am trying to avoid accusing you of hating Jews) Nice - insults and name calling and certainly not answering the questions. Well done. So, the illegal settlements have nothing at all to do with the boycotts? How about the restrictions on movement? How about the destruction of property? Livelihood? No, of course not - it's all just Jew hating to you. What utter nonsense. jbg - what DO you think of the Wall? What do you think of the illegal settlements on Palestinian lands? What do you think of some members of the Knesset calling for the forced transfer of all Arabs (christian and muslim) out of Israel proper? Can you answer without insulting me? Thought not.

Just wanted to know for the next time someone says I'm close to a fruitloop I can honestly say thankfully I'm quite far from it. Gee, nice little insult there Dancer - do you feel better now? My only regret here is that I actually responded to you. Anything to say on topic? Care to address the same questions I have posed to Scriblett? (Or anyone else for that matter?) hmmm?

In a word: YES. Especially since many of those interned lost everything, and were more often than not Canadian citizens. So, yes it was wrong.

Would you mind giving me a rough estimate of how far from Toronto you are? Well, truly it's none of your business where I live. But I will say it is thankfully quite far away from TO. (Nice place to visit - but I would never in a million years want to live there). Now, if only Scriblett would answer my questions!! Why Scriblett is the boycott being considered? What role do the illegal settlements play? What role does the Wall play? What role does the illegal occupation play? C'mon Scriblett - I'm still waiting!!

In Iran (where else - this is a Scriblett post afterall).

Indeed, this should be stopped. How pray tell, do you suggest that happen? How about a boycott ?

Wow, congratulations Scriblett!! You're back on topic!! Way to go! Now, can you answer the questions that I have directed to you? I'm still waiting. Here there are again, if you're not inclined to look for them: "Why the boycott?" "Why are such measures even being considered?" "What REASONS, using FACTS, do those who advocate the boycott use?" One cannot even begin to talk about the boycott without including the illegal occupation and the continual building of Jewish only gated settlements in the West Bank - on Palestinians Lands which have been bulldozed, and their groves dug up. Now, keep to the FACTS - not opinions from 'Kay" of the NaziPost. (Hint: It's not anti-semitism).

By definition a 'Muslim' state or 'Jewish' state cannot be pluralistic.

So, Scriblett, can you answer any of the questions I posted to you wrt the boycott (proposed) against Isreal's illegal occupation? I'm still waiting.

In the drawer next to those the Shin Bet and Mossad use to launch their own attacks Seriously, you can look at any of the maps - take a look at these form B' TSelem: http://www.btselem.org/English/Maps/Index.asp I think the major sticking stone here, especially wrt terrorism perpetrated by Palestinian factions is the Occupation and Illegal settlements on Palestinian lands by Israelis. House demolitions are also a factor along with the checkpoints and Jew only roads. B'TSelem has info on that as well, as I am sure you are well aware Rue. To be frank, I have always been more of a One State person myself. One Man, One Vote. A real democracy - where no one is a second class citizen - ie - Shepardic Jews and Israeli Arabs. I will maintain that Israel missed a golden opportunity, one that would have solved many problems and one that is simple beyond belief. Even if there would have been a few die hard nutbars on either side - overall it would be better for all involved - all PEOPLE - regardless of ethnicity or race. Sad when such opportunities are wasted.

HEY SCRIBLETT: CAN YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION? CAN YOU KEEP TO THE THREAD? CAN YOU FOLLOW YOUR OWN ADVICE? "maybe it would be better if everyone just stuck to the subject without the inflammatory remarks" *sigh* Why is the boycott being considered? What reason does the Occupation play in these proposed boycotts? Are Israeli Settlements in the Occupied territories legal? Moral? Just?

As far as I recall, there was a passport recovered from the dust of WTC 1 and 2, along with a bunch of stuff at the airport parking lot - a Quran, papers etc. Very convenient, those terrorists like to help with the job! *snicker*

It's quite entertaining to see quotes be taken out of context! How refreshing and intelligent! Thank you Scriblett! Anyway Scriblett - care to answer any of the questions posed? Care to keep on topic? Really, I'm flattered you pay so much attention to little old me! I guess my hugs and kisses just win you over eh? ROFLMFAO!!

Actually, this is a very notable propensity shared by many of our Israel-supporting interlocutors on this forum -- a characteristic avoidance of straightforward responses to simple and direct interogatories. Any basic question whose answer might shed real light on the issue is quickly buried in non-sequiturs, imputations, and emotive outbursts. Yeah, I know - but I couldn't resist sending her a kiss and a hug on the other thread, afterall - she tries so hard!! Edited to add: WRT Hamas and democracy - what democracy has ever existed in Occupied Palestine? Me - can't think of hardly any - since even if they do elect, democratically, their own leaders - it makes NO difference since Israel guards all the gates. Thus any talk of Democracy in Palestine is moot until Israel leaves her territory!

ROFLMAO @ you Scriblett! Still nothing to offer which is on topic? Such as "Why the boycott?" "Why are such measures even being considered?" "What REASONS, using FACTS, do those who advocate the boycott use?" Can you answer any of these things? That IS the topic Scribbles, get with it honeypie!! (kisses and a hug!!)

Comeon figleaf, its not one sided here, don't these comments p!ss you off too... or is there a double standard here.... its against the rules too. "Get off your high horse of BS. Can YOU answer that with anything other than your usual dribble and lies? "Since the majority of your above post is simply BS... Horse shit. " and so on Scriblett: STAY ON TOPIC::: The BOYCOTT of ISRAEL! Good Day Sunshine!