buffycat

The conditions proposed were utterly unjust to the Palestinians and rightly unacceptable. It really too bad that just when a real discussion was being attempted wrt the Saudi Initiative all this violence broke out. I guess funding and training a whack of Fatah Presidential Guard in Egypt then shipping them into Gaza was suppose to help the situation eh? Thank Elliot. Great timing. As usual poor little Israel is now left with no one to talk to!! So, she may as well contribute to the destruction of anyone left with a voice. Nice and convenient. Oh- and Scribblet - exactly WHAT kind of state would they have had? Would it have been contingenous throughout the West Bank? Would Israel had given up the land she has illegally settled? (BTW I don't expect you to answer the questions - as you never do address the reality on the ground).

jbg: What you're saying is that, for example, if some militiamen in Montana set about systematically attacking Alberta, the Canadian government would be helpless to pursue them if the US government were unable or unwilling to stop the incursions? Um... last I checked Canada has not occupied Montana - if she had then Montana residents certainly have the right to fight off the foriegn invaders! IOW your analogy is flawed.

How anyone can say that Israel is devoid of any kind of responsibility in this whole bloody affair is beyond me. Hello?????? Had Israel not been 'given' (silver spoon in hand) land by the British (who really had NO right to do so) this disgusting mess would not even be occuring. That said, it is clear we are stuck with this incarnation of Israel, whose desire has always been to be a Jewish State, too bad she did not actually embrace democracy and one man one vote. It was a grand opportunity lost. I don't think that the majority of Palestinians miss this FACT. Are Palestinians killing one another? Sadly, yes. Put any group of folk into an open air prison and deny them the control over their own destiny and what do you get? Warsaw Ghetto? Gaza? The point is, while Israel did evacuate her illegal settlers from Gaza, she never in any way whatsoever allowed for any kind of autonomy to the PA to govern. ALL borders and airspace was still completely controlled by her, all movement in or out - controlled by Israel. The overflights and sonic booms NEVER ceased - even though for many many months the ceasefire was held by the PA. Israel is like the little teacher's pet always provoking others then crying out when finally someone strikes back. She is a bully. Plain and simple. I often put of links to maps - have any of you who advocate letting the Palestinains have the West Bank even looked at them? Do any of you realize how the West Bank is carved up? How even there, there is little freedom of movement? How about the house demolitions? Not only in the WB but also in Gaza? So much is reported in NA without context. No wonder there is such hatred, such bigottry that folk need to use quotations to describe Palestinians and 'People'. Sad.

Wow, all this attention on lil' ole me, I'm gobsmacked! Figleaf, thank you for your chivalrous intervention, but I don't think the effort is worth it in sharkman's case. Best to just ignore him, and allow others to come to their own conclusions. Those who may read threads and not post will formulate their own opinions from what folks write. Sharkman's false accusations and methods of interaction on this board speak volumes in and of themselves. As I said, no group has the corner of the market on being and A$$hole. I could have used a different word, but to me jerk was simply not strong enough. Hyprocrit, liar, cad, boer come to mind but in the colloquiism of modern English and the informality of the board I figured that Asshole would do just fine. Point being that no matter which little enclave one shines a light on - there will always be trolls and goblins lurking in the shadows ready to pounce on the bit of light which exposes their wrongdoings.

Great little video runningdog! Thank you for posting the link. I hope others here will view this with open minds.

Hey Sharkie - aside from spreading lies about other forum members here do you ever actually address the topic of the post? Or follow the conversation? The topic, to be clear is the recent motion to boycott Israel (it hasn't passed yet), to which I added a link from and Israeli paper, ynet, explaining that many of those behind the boycott are themselves Jewish, as well as the REASON for the boycotts: Occupation. From there the thread digressed to name calling and insinuations of Jew Hating - nonsense designed to take away from any kind of rational discussion. Then you came along, making further false insinuations about what I happened to say. Which for you I will say again: There are assholes in every group - no one holds the corner of the market. They are those who seek to lie, to distort, to cast false witness, to murder and to steal, to abuse and to terrorize. No nation or ethnicity is without them. NONE. Good Day.

The Great Experiment I would agree.

Hi Gosthacked, I agree that the reporter wasn't the greatest, but as usual Ron was a breath of fresh air! Have you seen the piece in the WaPo? An Also-Ran in the GOP Polls, Ron Paul Is Huge on the Web excerpt:"If he had his way, the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Education, among other agencies, would not exist. In his view, the USA Patriot Act, which allows the government to search personal data, including private Internet use, is unconstitutional, and trade deals such as the North American Free Trade Agreement are a threat to American independence. But perhaps what most notably separates Paul from the crowded Republican field, headed by what former Virginia governor James S. Gilmore III calls "Rudy McRomney," is his stance on the Iraq war. He's been against it from the very beginning. After the second Republican presidential debate last month, when Paul implied that American foreign policy has contributed to anti-Americanism in the Middle East -- "They attack us because we're over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years," Paul said -- he was attacked by Giuliani, and conservatives such as Saul Anuzis were livid. Anuzis, chairman of the Michigan GOP, threatened to circulate a petition to bar Paul from future Republican presidential debates. Though the petition never materialized, Anuzis's BlackBerry was flooded with e-mails and his office was inundated with calls for several days. "It was a distraction, no doubt," he said. The culprits: Paul's growing number of supporters, some of whom posted Anuzis's e-mail address and office phone number on their blogs. "At first I was skeptical of his increasing online presence, thinking that it's probably just a small cadre of dedicated Ron Paul fans," said Matt Lewis, a blogger and director of operations at Townhall, a popular conservative site. "But if you think about it, the number one issue in the country today is Iraq. If you're a conservative who supports the president's war, you have nine candidates to choose from. But if you're a conservative who believes that going into Iraq was a mistake, Ron Paul is the only game in town.""

I disagree - how can one allow the Ten Commandments when the first is stated that there is only one true G-d? The arguments will start as to whose God is THE God!! Nonsense. I think the seven deadly sins should be taught though - Lust, Anger, Pride, Envy, Greed, Gluttony and Sloth. No need to bring some darn G-d into it.

jbg: Namecalling again?! Imagine my (lack of) surprise!! Me thinks thou dost protest too much sweetie

Simple: They shouldn't. http://www.palestineremembered.com/Maps/index.html I find maps help to illustrate just how much the Israelis are occupying in the West Bank (never mind Gaza - which although the Israelis took their illegal settlers out has not been in any way free or autonomous). Here is another good one from icahd: http://www.icahd.org/eng/articles.asp?menu...bmenu=3&map=yes

More nonsense from someone who can't abide with anything negative towards Islamist terrorists, but loves to smear the groups she loves to hate. Hi Sharkman, How are you today? Anything to add to the conversation? Perhaps a little insight from you as to why so many inhabitants of the ME hold rather negative opinions of the US and the West? You guys with your constant one-sidedness and undying support for a racist regime remind me of another racist regime from days gone past. Can you guess who that might be? Your rhetoric is resoundingly familiar! Just for the record, I do not condone terrorism in any form - whether it comes from a desperate fundamentalist strapping a bomb on his body - or a desperate fundamentalist who straps a few bombs to his plane and levels a whole neighbourhood. Get off your high horse of BS. Many in the ME have VERY good reasons to want to see the US OUT of their region. The hypocrisy on this board by the likes of you and your cohorts is astounding. There are Assholes in every group on this planet - no religious or ethnic group is spared - not even your precious Israelis and Saudis and Pakistanes, or Germans, or French, or Canadians, or Christians, or Muslims or anyone. So, comment on the thread - WHY do they 'hate' us? Can YOU answer that with anything other than your usual dribble and lies? No? Ha! didn't think so.

As usual, this thread has descended into a Hate thread itself against over a billion of the world's inhabitants. How nice and how reminiscent. Way to go guys.

I agree. This is the Israeli right's wet dream come true. How nice that the US and Israel are funding Fatah - and of course the thug Mohammed Dahlan. People here would do well to run a search on Dahlan, coupled perhaps with Elliot Abrams - heck throw Welch in there too for the Lebanese angle.

Osama bin Laden in his declaration of war in the 1990s said it was U.S. troops on the sacred soil of Saudi Arabia, U.S. bombing and sanctions of a crushed Iraqi people, and U.S. support of Israel's persecution of the Palestinians that were the reasons he and his mujahideen were declaring war on us. Elsewhere, he has mentioned Sykes-Picot, the secret British-French deal that double-crossed the Arabs who had fought for their freedom alongside Lawrence of Arabia and were rewarded with a quarter century of British-French imperial domination and humiliation. Almost all agree that, horrible as 9/11 was, it was not anarchic terror. It was political terror, done with a political motive and a political objective. from: But Who Was Right – Rudy or Ron? I think Pat sums things up quite nicely here - just as Paul did in the debate. They 'hate' us because we've been over there KILLING them. I think it is pretty simple, no need to bring religion into it.

In a word, yes. Certainly, to the extent you are a Jew hater, not a self-hater. Well then, since I am not a Jew-hater - these brave folks certainly aren't self haters!! (BTW - your insults are against board policy are they not? Was that really the best you could do jbg?) So, to take your rhetoric further - I guess all those of the Jewish faith who are opposed to the Occupation (and there are many) are all either Jew-haters or Self-haters? Is Jeff Halper a self hater? Is Avnery a self hater? Is Finkelstien a self hater? Is Micheal Lerner a self hater? Is Ilan Pappe a self hater? I could go on but I would hope you get the point. (Though I am not holding my breath) For those of you here not blinded by hatred as jbg is, follow the links and see what is said by many of these brave individuals who have the moral fortitude to speak up against what is truly a crime - the illegal occupation of Palestinian lands and the slow genocide and destruction of an entire people.

Agreed, yet I think it's worse this time around due to the technologies available to really make a person's life miserable if they don't conform to statist beliefs.

Thanks Gosthacked, The reason I asked about an agreed upon definition is that usual saying: one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. So, by definition and for the sake of the thread is it agreed that a terrorist is one who consciously and knowingly kills innocents in order to further their idealistic desires? It's not the easiest thing to define. I also understand you want to keep religion out of it - but I am not sure you can - since many terrorist acts are defined by extremist sects (Xtian, Jew, Muslim doesn't matter). Sorry to be a stickler, but a definition is in order - a clear one. As far as the context, War on Terror - IMO it is no different than the War on (some) Drugs, or the War on Illiteracy or the war on whatever - you can't wage war on a noun. But, I'll give this: Why do they hate us? Perhaps because through many years and various institutions (military/banking/aid) we have yolked developing country's ability to grow, to advance and to seek their own solutions. IOW - the West has messed around far too long and people are pissed off. IMO it has nothing to do with our so called freedoms (which are dissappearing rather quickly). Make sense?

Here is an interesting report from ynet, which might expell some of these anti-semitic myths circulating around from the "Israel can do NO wrong" junta: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3413292,00.html Many of the key players in the escalating British campaign to boycott Israel are Jewish or Israeli, the Jewish Chronicle revealed in an investigation published Thursday. According to the investigation, the Jewish academics justify their stance as part of the struggle for Palestinian rights and ending Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territories. ********* Are they all 'self-haters'?

Those are good questions, but may I request an agreed upon definition of terrorist before we start?

Great interview with Paul here: http://innworldreport.net/video_launcher.php?2007-06-14i Enjoy!!

Ottawa? Heck nieghbour, come join me in the pool!! I find it bloody hot. ugh!! Did you look at the sky today? Strange things going on up there GostHacked.

It's hot here. Pretty much the way I've always remembered it. I put our little pool up the other day - if I'm going to work in the garden I need to dunk my head now and again. The problem as I see it, with the way that temperature changes are noted in the mainstream, is that all is measured in far too small a time frame. The life span of a human is miniscule compared to the natural ebb and flows of global temperatures and overall climate changes. Yes, there are exceptions - such as the Younger-Dryas - where a cooling came on VERY quickly ~ 70 years, and resulted in a thousand here deep freeze just after the end of the last glacial period. But, in general climate changes are cyclical and have many variables - something not often mentioned in the fear mongering GW hysterics. I agree that things are changing - afterall Nature is not a steady state system - BUT and this is a BIG BUT - how much human activity is affecting this is up for debate. Do we affect it at all? Obviously yes - how much is VERY difficult of say with any kind of accuracy. That all said - I still feel that it is best to err on the side of caution. It is about 35 with the humidex today. I'm off to float in the pool with a nice little drinkie - starting my weekend early!

You really have a thing for that particular event, doncha? One imagines you have this as your screen saver. Too cool. I'm going to plaster my walls with copies. Thanks. I understand, or at the least hope, that you are being sarcastic when you made this remark wrt the dead of Dresden. Never mind, you're probably serious. (ly sick)