buffycat

Well Buffy congrats. You have demonstrated for everyone to see you are full of it and jump to unsubstantiated conclusions. More to the point you just couldn't resist turning an incident of anti-semitism around to criticize Israel. Perhaps you would like to write BC Chick and explain to her why what you just did, so you both can sit there and claim its beyond both of you. I have not jumped to unsubstantiated conclusions Rue - as I did try to research this and it seems as though there is absolutely nothing outside of three articles. Nothing is even mentioned on ADL wrt this archaic and bigotted law. At least that is what the cursory searches that I have attempted in order to vett this piece of BS has shown! Believe me if this were the case it would be a well known fact - not some tiny article with NO evidence that this is actually occuring currently. How nice for you all. Guess what? I also have friends and relatives living in France, Germany, Austria and Czech Republic - and this proves what Rue? Sure it's hard to get good accomadations in ALL of Europe. I recall waiting for over an hour to view one apartment in Hamburg - one apartment - hundreds turned out to view it. SO WHAT?? First you apologize (for whatever that may be worth - nada) then you character attack again! What chutzpah Rue, I gotta hand it to ya! I take it you mean this ENTIRE bit - noting of course the spin you are attaching, as the part you quoted (I'll bold it for ya!) is about ALL non ethnic groups - not just those of Jewish faith: C. Anti-Semitism 58. In its communication of 16 March 1999 transmitting the Annual Report of the Government of Israel on anti-Semitic Trends in 1998, the Government of Israel noted that anti-Semitic propaganda and violence had increased considerably in 1998 compared with 1997. This coincided with the commemoration of the fiftieth anniversary of the founding of the State of Israel and the issue of the recovery of the gold and property of Jews seized during the Second World War and resulted in attacks on Jewish communities and synagogues and the desecration of Jewish graves in various parts of the world. 59. The Israeli Government and many Jewish organizations also believe that the denial of the Holocaust is one of the main common manifestations of anti-Semitism. D.Insidious and subtle forms of racism and racial discrimination 60. Unlike the violent manifestations of racism, anti-Semitism and racial propaganda, which are visible forms of racism, there are hidden, insidious and subtle forms of these phenomena that are not always subject to the law. 61. A circular of 16 July 1998 from the French Minister of Justice addressed to the procurators-general of the courts of appeal and government procurators of the courts of major instance on efforts to combat racism and xenophobia, transmitted to the Special Rapporteur by the French Government, provides some information about this type of racism and racial discrimination. It notes inter alia that: "Over the past 30 years, France has gradually put into place an arsenal of laws that seem to be equal to the task of effectively prosecuting the different manifestations of racist and xenophobic ideologies and protecting their victims ... "Despite increasingly vigorous and significant judicial responses, racially-biased crimes continue to affect social relations and threaten the fundamental values of our civilization. "Although there has been a steady increase in the number of sentences handed down by all French criminal courts, it should nevertheless be noted that because so few complaints are recorded by the police and gendarmerie, and referred to the prosecution service, the number of cases prosecuted does not at all reflect the reality as perceived by the associations that combat racism on a daily basis ... "The facts brought to the attention of the Ministry of Justice show that the manifestations of racism and xenophobia are becoming increasingly diversified in terms of both form and gravity. Moreover, racist discourse is becoming more sophisticated and is often couched in such terms as to escape being characterized as an offence ... "In recent years, daily incidents of discrimination, for example in connection with admission to discotheques or with the renting of apartments, have become commonplace. "Yet only 10 people were sentenced, in 1996, for discrimination with respect to the offer or provision of goods or services. "No one was sentenced for any other form of discrimination (employment, recruitment, dismissal and economic activity in general which covers all the other forms of discrimination). "Instances of discrimination in recruitment and in the workplace are much more widespread than it appears. It is up to the courts to prosecute any such cases that are brought to their attention and to hand down the relevant sentences. Discrimination can also be insidious and result in hindering an individual's career development or unfair dismissals ...". IV. Measures taken or envisaged by Governments, legislative and judicial bodies and other authorities *** So, it's not just Jews being discriminated against! Quelle surpise! (not). It is interesting that you cherry pick the one line - in another category (D vs C) in which to rest your oh so floppy case. Nice try. No one is denying that racism and bigotry exists - but false accusations do nothing outside of diminishing the ACTUAL cases when they do arise - again not just for Jews - but for all who may be treated differently.

Docking their pay is certainly not the way to go - if Uhaul really thinks it is caring for it's employees. Perhaps a better way, as mentioned above, would be to include a bonus of sorts for all employees who are part of some kind of fitness program. That said - unless the tonnage is interfering with the performance at work it really isn't any of uhaul's business. (Though let's face it there are a lot of morbidly obese Americans and Canadians these days - which begs the question: What is so messed up in our society and our food sources that there are so many REALLY fat folks around? hmmm?)

Nah, Scribblet - you were the one who seems to think it is which of course the article doesn't actually say - so I think it's up to you to call up Nice and ask them!! pfft.

Did either one of you, Bonam or Kimmy READ the articles? There is NO proof that this is actually happening now - at all. If it were, obviously it is discrimination and should stop - but the point which BOTH of you seem to have missed is this: It's not happening - period. As far as discrimination goes, Israel DOES so on a regular basis to the Arab Christian and Muslim minority. Just recently with the hooplah surrounding the discriminatory practices of the JNF and the ILA - look it up - I'm not your research engine. Not to mention the unofficial policy of not issuing housing permits to Arab Christians and Muslims in Israel - then bulldozing the said structure, even though the permits are 'in limbo'! So, you take issue with something here - which IS not occuring - yet both of you seem to be fine when the Israeli Admins do it in Israel against others! What a double standard and what shear hypocrisy!! Amazing! You both need to read a little more and question when something so obviously trollish is posted. (I take it it's okay for one group but not for other eh?) Can you find any kind of evidence that this particular 'regulation' is still in practice? No? Didn't think so. Oh and Bonam - is adhominen the only thing you know how to post?

From what I can gather no Jews have actually been denied apartment rental. The law was on the books since the WW2 when France collaborated with the Nazis. Hence I am calling this whole non event BS. From ynet: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3371697,00.html Should the regulation be struck down? Of course - that is a no brainer Scriblett. Note also that this was first published in March, what took you so long to find it? How about the REALITY of Arab Israelis unable to buy or rent apartments in Israel? Hmmmm - that actually happens. Not like this utter nonsense. Really Scriblett I think you're slipping!!

Pfffft.... Reuters image of Russian sub claiming North Pole was scene from film "Titanic"

What the heck does 'muzzim' mean? If it is a slur jbg, is that not against forum policy? I have never seen that word before, and I am pretty sure it doesn't mean Imam. If it is a racist/bigotted name like the n-word, or the k-word then that is truly pretty petty and low of you.

Hey, Scott - I know this is off-topic and for that I apoligise to the thread starter - but - is that you in the picture on your profile? You look so familiar, it's scary.

Rue, can you please stop spamming this thread? Or is it your intention to completely derail the topic?

Hi Drea, Thanks for your thoughtful post - most of which I totally agree with. WRT the hours of labour - google and you will find many sites which discuss this. I am hesitant to give a specific link as I would rather you choose your own. (That way I won't be accused again today of some kind of contrived bias!). I agree too that sweat shops are a problem everywhere - even here in Canada. It is something which IMO doesn't get the media attention it should. If we were all informed about which corps use these practices then as consumers we can make better choices. To be honest - I don't buy much anyway as stated I am not a materialistic person. Hence when I do make a 'big' purchase I tend to be very careful about what it is I am sinking my hard earned $$ into! A company I did some consultation work for was considering having one of their units built in china. Thankfully I persuaded them not too - thus saving some Canadian jobs and keeping the $$ at home. Anyways, thanks for your nice post - how refreshing!

Rue, you just can't stick to the topic can you? The title of the thread is Palestinian casualites for the month of July. NOT the Holocaust or expulsion of Jews from Arab lands. Start your own thread. Instead of continually dredging up the past, why not attempt at least to talk about the current injustice? Or is that too difficult for you? I also find it odd that you seem so disturbed by what Higgly said that you have to continue to attack his character. WRT Jews fleeing Arab lands, there are various takes on that part of the ordeal. Some did flee - many left due to the promises the pfledgling Israeli state made them: Jobs, housing money etc. Many SOLD their businesses in various Arab lands before they left. Others actually stayed - many of whom still live in countries like Iran who hosts the largest Jewish population outside of Israel in the Mid-East. Traditionally speaking Jews have faired far better in Muslim lands over the last centuries than in Europe in the last. All that aside, how does the treatment of Jews have anything to do with the current treatment of the native Palestinian Arabs (both Christian and Muslim alike) which is taking place NOW in Israel? Care to answer that and stay on topic? (not holding my breath).

So Scott's site is wrong (or has a typo) afterall. Imagine my surprise. That is still more than the twin tower death toll. oh and btw - I am not a supporter of capital punishment.

Hi Cybercoma, I think one of the problems which walmart is accused of is they keep workers under the 40 hr mark thus they don't have to pay any of the 'benefits'. Currently walmart mexico is under investigation for using underage kids to do bagging and NOT paying them at all. They aren't exactly the nice guys. I don't shop there due to my disagreement with their labour practices as well as where they get their products from (in many cases, as stated, from Asian sweat shops). The economic power we do have as consumers can be a mighty tool for change - but only if one realizes what is going on and then has the fortitude to stick to their convictions. I am not a big consumer, as I am not a materialistic sort of gal (heck I own like four pairs of shoes!!), so for me it's not a biggie to ban Walmart. I have other boycotts too - french wine being the longest standing of all. gosh must be over 20 years now on that one! edited to correct: I own five pairs of shoes - I recently purchased some old fashioned canvas shoes made in Russia.

LOL well, that's fine. Others here can click on Scott's site and then take a gander at http://www.imemc.org/. Which btw doesn't demonise the Israeli people yet does address the injustices which occur in the Occupied Territories - which are under Israeli control and thus are their responsibility according to international law. Whatever.

hahahahahahaahhahahahahah YOU have got to be kidding me! Man you are really full of it today eh? Where's your old tagline? You know the one which had the very descriptive swearword in it? Man you really don't know what a hate site is do you?

Care to back that up with some actual examples??? I often link to Haaretz, B'TSelem and such - goodness me are those Arab sites? Or is this just more BS mud slinging from you? Hmmmm? Did you view Scott's site? Did you see some of the truly hateful things there?

Hello Gravitas, I would say it certainly, beyond a shadow of a doubt does qualify for ethnic cleansing and perhaps even genocide as well (if one include the systematic murder of all members of Palestinian villages in 48 - Dier Yassin comes to mind, yet there were many others). The Palestinians are a resiliant peoples, the adverse conditions which they have endured now for over 60 years is unimaginable for most of us (thankfully). If genocide means wiping out the race entirely, with no living members left - then certainly as Rue says it can't really be genocide - but then what can (outside of some groups of South Florida Natives who no longer exist - ie extinct). But genocide does not have to kill everyone, there are survivors. Perhaps a nice little definition would do for Rue: The international legal definition of the crime of genocide is found in Articles II and III of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide. Article II describes two elements of the crime of genocide: 1) the mental element, meaning the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such", and 2) the physical element which includes five acts described in sections a, b, c, d and e. A crime must include both elements to be called "genocide." BTW -Welcome to the board.

Dancer - they are using the SAME source material. The typo IMO is on the site which Scott referenced (A hate site btw)

You know what Scott? I am NOT going to answer that on this public forum since it is personal information and you stalk me enough here thanks. Whine all ya want - makes no difference to me. I walked by these rooms on a daily basis as they were right between my buildings (sciences) and the library.

Well Scotty I followed your links to the 'source' and guess what! I think your precious site may have a typo since they are using the Epsy files (the same ones on the site I directed you too). But go ahead and explain it otherwise - oh and btw that site is no better than stromfront and I would advise all to go visit it to see where YOU are coming from. sickening.

Rue I haven't said anything wrt the Holocaust outside of mentioning that YOU are the one who is always playing that card. Is what happened to the Jews (and others) during WW2 equivalent to and excuse to do whatever they like and damn the consequences? Of course not - yet it is used as such by you. Hence if anyone is belittling what they went through it's you and not I. Furthermore - I would prefer you comment on the topic - ie treatment of Palestinians in the OCCUPIED territory by the IDF. That is the topic - not Higgly, not me (and the crap you MAKE up about me). Can you stay on topic? If not - butt out. Thanks

I was going to say the same thing, but you beat me to it! University is not all about the academics - there is a social element as well. (edited for spelling)

Where is this claim made White Doors? Care to quote it? Wal mart has been brought to task many times over their shady pricing adventures - heck a google search will bring up almost 2 million hits. Why don't you do your own research - or do you need spoonfeeding?

I'm not so sure that the stats which Scott is throwing around are correct. From 1909 to 1991 a total of 6559 people were executed. This according to this site: http://users.bestweb.net/~rg/execution.htm So since it's inception the US has executed over 14,000 people. Scott I don't think your source (religionofpeace) is any better than a site which rants on about the protocols.

So then cybercoma, what were your thoughts on the Quebec store which was simply shut down?