buffycat

Well Scott, the uni I attended did in fact have a Christian room and a Jewish room. They may have had a Muslim room too - not sure - it could have been in one of the arts buildings which I never entered as none of my classes were in the 'arts'. But hey, feel free to believe what you will. Did you even read the article? The Muslim students rep said she thinks that the room will be very useful to those of that faith who wish to pray. It is a multi faith room - iow no displays of any of the religions - just a quiet space for spiritual reflection. BTW not all Muslims scream while praying - just as not all Christians speak in tongues. Man, talk about nasty generalisations.

Warning to Scott: Sit down and breathe deeply - it seems a 'quiet reflection' room is also being added at the U: U designates room for quiet reflection Of course, I see nothing wrong with this. When I was in Uni there was a christian room and a Jewish room for religious purposes - so what.

Betsy please see the above posted pdf, it's long but hey it's a credible source - just for you!! Point about the shoes: If Walmart knows these shoes are causing chemical burns on people (which the DO) they shouldn't still be selling them. PERIOD. sheesh

Gosh Betsy, can you not google for yourself? http://www.google.com/search?q=wal+mart+la....netscape:en-US results for 'walmart labour practice' over a million and half choices. Here's one: http://edworkforce.house.gov/publications/WALMARTREPORT.pdf It's a long one. Wal-Mart has also destroyed many a long time family business in areas where they have set up, condemning folk to work a low paying dead end jobs. Their hiring practice (of illegals) is also a problem. Their union busting puts all others to shame (recal there was one in Quebec who had managed to get enough support for a union and Wal Mart simply shut down). Not to mention the origin of much of their 'cheap' goods is from sweat shops and highly dubious factories in China and Indonesia where they indulge in basically slave labour standards. Wal-Mart - no thanks. edited to add the first few paragraphs from the above pdf: The retail giant Wal-Mart has become the nation’s largest private sector employer with an estimated 1.2 million employees.1 The company’s annual revenues now amount to 2 percent of the U.S. Gross Domestic Product.2 Wal-Mart’s success is attributed to its ability to charge low prices in mega-stores offering everything from toys and furniture to groceries. While charging low prices obviously has some consumer benefits, mounting evidence from across the country indicates that these benefits come at a steep price for American workers, U.S. labor laws, and community living standards. Wal-Mart is undercutting labor standards at home and abroad, while those federal officials charged with protecting labor standards have been largely indifferent. Public outcry against Wal-Mart’s labor practices has been answered by the company with a cosmetic response. Wal-Mart has attempted to offset its labor record with advertising campaigns utilizing employees (who are euphemistically called “associates”) to attest to Wal-Mart’s employment benefits and support of local communities. Nevertheless – whether the issue is basic organizing rights of workers, or wages, or health benefits, or working conditions, or trade policy – Wal-Mart has come to represent the lowest common denominator in the treatment of working people. This report reviews Wal-Mart’s labor practices across the country and around the world and provides an overview of how working Americans and their allies in Congress are seeking to address the gamut of issues raised by this new standard-bearer of American retail.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Decision2008/popup?id=3436820 It's interesting how the msm is so completely ignoring Paul's popularity. I guess they don't know what to do when truths are spoken - must be a foriegn language to them.

I haven't been to Wal-Mart in over 11 years as they are on my banned list. Did you see this: http://www.lamanaphotography.com/walmart2.htm Chemical burns from Wal-Mart's cheapie flip flops!! Wal Mart of course, is still selling these things and doesn't seem to give a flip. When has any mega corporation given a flip?

Wow, calm down Rue I think you are about to blow a gasket. Where did I say I was in Gaza? Hmmm can't seem to find that anywhere. Perhaps you could be so kind and quote it for me? Until then I'd suggest not making baseless insults just because you are on the losing end of this discussion - which btw you seem unable to address or even admit: Israel has not dealt in good faith and nor does she have intention to do so. B'TSelem issued another press release today wrt the illegal settlements and checkpoints in the WB - any comment on that? Do you really not think that these forms of collective punishment (a key part of ethnic cleansing) contribute to the ongoing problems? (I'm not expecting you to keep to topic, but it would be nice if you can manage to address the topic of the thread Rue).

While I thank you for your concern, I began this ride in life on the other side of the fence Rue. I was a stringent a supporter of Israel and Zionist ideals as IMO you currently are, that was the environment I had growing up. Golda was an icon in our household, along with Netanyahu and the whole concept of Israel for the Jews. So, you see, I have known the other side and now do try to understand both. Rue, what happened to the European Jews in WW2 is not in question, nor all of the other humans who died - IMO there is no corner of the market on suffering - most all have experienced it at one time or another and many still do. I am quite well aware of what ethnic cleansing and genocide means, thank you Rue - and to a large degree what the diehard Zionists indulge in is exactly that - ethnic cleansing. Ben Gurion, Sharon, Mier, Shamir have all been quite forthright about their feeling wrt Arab natives inhabiting the Jewish State, and have done much within their power to see that a 'pure' Jews only state evolves. Whether it be housing and land permits, marriage arrangements, prefered immigration within Israel or the illegal settlements within the Occupied Territories the policy of colonialism and ethnic cleansing has been a hallmark of many Israeli administrations - this is part of what has contributed to the insecure position that Irael finds herself in, as well as the overall poor reputation she has in the world for being a troublemaker. These are not simple accusations Rue and you darn well know it. Or do you support the illegal settlements and the sort of behaviour we see occuring in Hebron for example? I certainly do not - but nor do I condone the use of suicide bombings against innocent Israelis either - something you certainly seem to miss. There are nasty folk on both sides of this conflict, and no one can say that the sides are equal. Umm no because nothing can go into or out of Gaza (including all humanitarian aid as well as their own tax monies, trucks, exports etc without Israel's consent. So, technically Gaza is nothing more than a wide open prison, under siege and with the many starving and malnourished - this is simply a fact. I won't bother to mention the other banustans scattered throughout the West Bank, cut off from one another by a web of checkpoints, roads built that no Palestinian can travel, water restrictions etc - I think you might just get the point. Slow starvation and mass demoralisation is part of the whole ticket. Keep in mind that not all inmates of the concentration camps died in the ways you describe either - many died of typhus and of starvation after the infrastructure was destroyed by the allies, now is that any better? Who knows - the whole thing was a tragedy, but hey lots of folk got nice and rich didn't they? What I always found so hard to understand growing up was how the Israelis could justify mass expulsions of Palestinians and the takeover of their lands after the same sort of thing happened to them - this is one of the things which I always found rather perplexing. Now, Rue you know that the above is simply not true and there are many examples currently being chewed over in Israel herself these days that illustrate that fact - any perusal of Haaretz, Jpost or Ynet will give you more than enough info to realize that what you are professing above is just not true. Gee, look at this one involving a Brit: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?ed...rticle_id=84314 (It's in lots of papers, I just grabbed the first one off the google block). This as you know is a normal occurance in Israel, as well as in the occupied territories. Has it never occured to you that if Israel would stop her expansionist agenda and the outright theft of other's properties that she might not have such a huge problem? Ummm the name Avigdor Lieberman ring a bell? Why would you think I am some kind of Hamas supporter? The above is simple hogwash designed to divert - come on Rue you can do better than that. Then why did you bother? Oh so you could play the old Holocaust and Anti-semite card? That does NO Jew any favours Rue, it's classic diversion and whining.

ScottSA - I would recommend that you and I no longer address one another and if we find ourselves posting on the same thread please attempt to keep your rebuttles on topic and not the character of the poster. Thank you and have a great day. Buffy edited to add the above post as I meant to hit the 'reply with quote' function. QUOTE(buffycat @ Aug 5 2007, 01:03 PM) * You like that word Booga Booga huh? Is it new for you? Thanks for asking if something is wrong with me though, your thoughfulness is oh so touching. I'll have to say that no, nothing is wrong with me though. Sorry if that upsets you. Now, back to the topic: Osama has no official connections to 911, or Madrid or 7/7... what was your point again? (I'm starting to think if there's anything wrong with me it's in my responding to any of your posts tongue.gif ) Why do you bother posting here? Your posts are 9/10 troll, you display a profound inabiltiy to grasp the simplest concepts, and you write as if you're in some flirty thirties chatroom.

You like that word Booga Booga huh? Is it new for you? Thanks for asking if something is wrong with me though, your thoughfulness is oh so touching. I'll have to say that no, nothing is wrong with me though. Sorry if that upsets you. Now, back to the topic: Osama has no official connections to 911, or Madrid or 7/7... what was your point again? (I'm starting to think if there's anything wrong with me it's in my responding to any of your posts )

Scott - During the war, not just this month. I'll have to look that up, but you can bet your bottom dollar it is way more than 34 and way more than the loss of American life too. All of it is a tragedy don't you think? Got yer billboard yet? I posted Haaretz so you could read the articles and some of the feedback. Thought you might actually open your mind for two seconds and see what the Israeli press itself reports about. I posted it for interest. I don't need your permission, nor do I have to justify one thing to you. I am just being polite right now and explaining - for whatever good that might do. ciao

LOL@ you Scott. Hahahahahahha! Thanks for the entertainment!

Certainly: http://www.crimesofwar.org/onnews/btselem_...icial_killi.pdf I think you hit it well on the head with the use of the word 'despotic'. LOL Absolutely not. I imagine alot of women in Salem weren't too happy about the Christians trying them in various inventive methods either...

um hmmm Scott. I see you fail to mention the 700,000 or more dead Iraqis (thanks to those brave Christian soldiers huh? How about the displaced millions of Iraqis? Oh I forgot - they aren't people according to you. Your post has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, as usual you attempt feebily to divert. Sorry: http://www.haaretz.com/

Of course he is dead - but he is a very useful tool of government booga booga, so they kept him 'alive' even though no one has heard a peep out of him. That, and him not having anything to do with 911 should really make folk wonder - alas many just want to believe their government so badly, that even when obvious facts are staring them in the face they stick their fingers in their ears, close their eyes and sing...

I'm just thinking - how is the call for Rushdie to be whacked any different that extra judicial assassinations carried out by certain governments? (At least with the Rushdie contract it's not a state doing it?) Just wondering how the Muslim bashers here will spin that... [rolleyes]

So, I take it you have read the Quran? How about the Old Testament - lots of off with their heads there too huh? And burnings, and smiting!! Ain't religion grand?

Rue, You are free to start your own thread wrt Hamas (or other factions) lobbing of rockets into Southern Israel (which BTW I certainly do not condone, no matter how you might want to spin it. As stated the purpose of this thread was to present a side of the conflict that is NOT mentioned in our media here in NA, if it is it is often without context. There ya go - a REALLY short response unlike your verbal ramblings above. I really don't care whether you take me seriously or not - couldn't really give a hoot. Sorry if that hurts your feelings - but really I care not. Now, I provided Israeli sources for the other side of this conflict, which as I have stated does not get the airplay it should in order to understand what some of the problems are. If you would like to discuss the wrongs of the IDF and Israeli Admins fine, continue to post on my thread - if you are simply here to hurl insults and character assassinations then kindly butt out. edited to add: Settlers Attack UN Personell in South Hebron Hills and this: IDF censures ex battalion chief over shooting of innocent Palestinian *sigh*

Well, to be frank IMO allmost all of the 'points' are rather misleading and certainly myopic. For instance the standard LIE that Arab leaders told the people to leave - that has been completely discredited, even Vad Yashen now acknowledges the Nakba. No comment though on B'TSelem? Gush Shalom? ICAHD? Ilan Pappe? The fine humans who are associated with these organisations, and of course Pappe himself are the true brave ones, they see both sides, they see the truths and do not shrink from them, instead they try, hard as it is to make peace and inroads so that this mess can finally end - whether it's a two state solution as advocated by Averney (Gush Shalom) or a one state as advocated by Pappe. You might find this debate rather interesting: Two States or One State Here is Ilan's site - in case you would like to check him out, unlike the 'middleeastfacts' site there is NO demonisation on Pappe's site: http://www.ilanpappe.org/articles.html

Hello Rue, wrt Morris, I understand his shortcomings - but even a broken clock is correct twice a day. At the very least he admits the ethnic cleansing did occur - as many other Israeli historians have now also done. Since, however, I do not belong to the 'anti-semite' camp (and I really wish folk would stop throwing that stupid term around) I really couldn't care less what those people might think or not (they are rather undefinable anyway - since to some fanatics anyone even saying a single thing wrt Israel's behaviour is labelled as one - either that or self-hater - IMO useless debate tactic meant to stop all discussion). Speaking of which - this thread which I started was to illustrate that there is much which both the IDF and the Israeli Admin should be answering for wrt treatment of Palestinian civilians, both in the West Bank and of course Gaza, which is litterally under siege. I would appreciate if you stay on topic and not attack other posters in my thread. If you want to have a "higgly" thread - go ahead and start one. If you would like to discuss the human rights violations in the Occupied Territories perpetrated by the IDF and Fanatical Settlers fine - stay and discuss. Afterall - that is the thread topic - not your love affair with Higgly. Thank you.

Rather one sided site, both of them. Thanks but I'll stick with B'TSelem, Gush Shalom, ICAHD and other Israeli sites who REALLY do promote peace and understanding instead of the obviously biased and agenda driven goobledegook on those two sites! You may want to read some stuff by Ilan Pappe, or perhaps even Benny Morris - who don't continue to perpetuate the lies wrt the Nakba and the ethnic cleansing of BM Palestine and the pfledgling Israeli state. Thanks though for providing the source of your '20' propoganda points!

I think that some of the threads on this board go to prove that no one is afraid of offending Muslims. Though I can think of a couple groups folks are afraid of offending.... Hitchens has already lost any kind of journalistic integrity he may have had - a long time ago. He is relegated to the rank of shill. Unflippin'beleivable! I think Kuzadd has nailed it though, wrt demonisation and propoganda - that is pretty much all that Hitchens and his cohorts are able to produce these days! ack

I can't believe this thread. It's a FOOTBATH - not a terrorist bomb for crying out loud. A footbath which the Muslim students were willing to pay for themselves! Good grief!! Heck, back in my uni days after a long three hour chem lab - I would've probably loved a little soak in a nice little footbath! Really unbelievable what some folks seems to get their panties in a knot over!! LOL

Got a link for that B.Max?

Although this report is a couple years old, it might enlighten some on this board who deny any wrongdoings on Israel's part: http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/images/inf...rief.php?ID=132 excerpt: Child Prisoners According to the Palestinian Prisoners Club, 3,000 Palestinian children have been arrested since 2000. Today, there are 300 Palestinian children in Israeli custody. Four percent of the incarcerated children are in administrative detention. The majority, 55 percent, were arrested for throwing stones at Israeli soldiers. According to Israeli military orders, Palestinian children 16 and older are treated as adults and are tried and sentenced by Israeli military courts as adults. Israeli military orders are applied to Palestinian children, even as juvenile legislation defines Israeli children as 18 or younger. Furthermore, Palestinian children receive the same treatment as adult prisoners. They are subject to torture, solitary confinement, and/or overcrowded cells. They are deprived of sleep, adequate education, medical treatment, family visits, and recreational programs. Defense for Children International and Save the Children have stated that Palestinian children are being "physically and mentally abused." They confirm Palestinian accusations that children are denied access to their families and legal representation during interrogation and are held in overcrowded and unsanitary conditions. ****** edited to add a link to some good videos wrt Settler violence in Hebron: http://www.btselem.org/english/Video/200705_Hebron_Index.asp