madmax

Federal Election Results 1988 Conservatives:5,667,543 Liberals: 4,205,072 NDP:2,685,263 Federal Election Results 2008 Conservatives:5,205,334 Liberals:3,629,990 NDP:2,517,075 After 20 years we see much of the same. Obviously the NDP had more votes in BC, More Votes in ALberta, More Votes in Sask and More Votes in Manitoba then did the Liberals. However this doesn't always translate into more seats. But if you look at the numbers. The Conservatives are down 462209 votes from their 1988 high. The Liberals are down 575,082 votes from their 1988 result. The NDP are down 168,188 votes from their 1988 high. If anything, the Liberals have lost the most ground. Harper has not achieved a Mulroney Breakthrough, thus no Majority unlike Mulroneys two back to back Majorities. And the NDP have managed to resurect themselves from the 1990s purgatory, to climb back up close to their 1988 highwater mark. All parties messages change throughout time. The Liberal Messages changes by the hour. Dion, pitches Green SHift over summer. Dion Green Shift is Campaign Plank, basis of which is used to fund all programs. Dion says to media Green Shift is NOT central part of his campaign. (very strange) Says media said it was. Dion Defends Greenshift in Debates, and promotes it. (Back on the table) Liberal Party to Ditch Dion and Greenshift. End of days.... Coming soon

Actually the GP were to lazy to work or run candidates for 20 years. The environment wasn't important enough to run a full slate. Not until they saw the opportunity for Government Money, $1.75/vote did it occur to them to run paper candidates. Roll in the dough on the Tax payers tab.... was the only purpose of the GP.

The only person responsible for reinvigorated BQ is Stephen Harper. They were down and out heading into the campaign. Harpers comments were not only foolish and typical of his behaviour, they created a rallying point for both the BQ and the Liberals to defend Quebec. If Harper had not bothered to make inane comments about culture and artists and then bury himself deeper, (as when he talks unscripted, he can't stop digging), there is every reason to believe that the CPC would have 4 more seats minimum. The BQ could have been reduced this election being replaced by Federal Parties RIGHT, LEFT, and CENTRE, but instead, the CPC is left with ....... Maxime Bernier as their intellectual flag bearer of the right. Fortier, the unelectable bagman looking to see if Harper will give him his Senate Job Back. And Duceppe laughing at the clowns who never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to reduce the BQ from political relevance. Bravo .... Harper.

People in Haldimand Norfolk, held their nose and voted for Finley over the Liberal, because they really didn't like Dion, let alone the Liberal Platform. People also like the GP Platform Less. Which left them with Finley, McHale and surprisingly, Nicholson who wasn't expected to do well and grabbed more votes then McHale, who got more spotlight along with the Lib and Finley. Finley also could meet the public outside of Caledonia without to much criticism because the feds came up with something for the Tobacco Farmers, and most people (General Public) were content with the money offered to the Farmers and not the details.

Harper won because the Campaign Team did a great job of locking him up and shutting him up when it was critical. The last week. They shut up Harper by not allowing him to stray from the platform. To do that, they held back the platform, so that he would have something to talk about and not spending time shooting himself in the foot or putting his foot in his mouth as he is prone to do. He cost them Quebec. Then they cleverly pulled him from the media on their terms, not like in previous years where Mr. Harper hid in a trailer because of his own stupidity. His team made the least mistakes and virtually ran a flawless campaign. Harper also won because DION lost. Dion should have been locked up, and let the pros go where they needed to get to. Dion had landed from another planet and people didn't want to vote for this green space alien. Not able to connect with anyone and knowing more then the handlers, Dion stick handled him and his party into his own endzone, and let Harper shoot the puck at an empty net. (Sometimes he missed) With Duceppe and Layton playing defence, they deflected as many shots as they could and sent the puck back into Harpers end zone. (Some call it icing the puck) But each time the faceoff was back in the Liberal Zone and Dion relied upon a Green Goaltender to back him up. The Green Goaltender hadn't figured out whose side or team she was on, so she just let the pucks go by one at a time, trying to read the puck that said "CENTRAL NOVA", but it was a 120mile slap shot that went right past her. The Lib/Green alliance was over. Dion was toast. That was the Harper Victory

QUOTE(madmax @ May 28 2008, 06:23 AM) The only difference between Jaffer and Bernier, is that Bernier will likely be able to hold his seat under any circumstance, and Jaffer faces nailbiters each election. Mr. Bluth Stated Hope I earned some credibility with that May 08 assessment. Back to reality..... Incompetent keeps seat.... Bernier Nailbiter MP Loses Seat...... Jaffer Now, I gotta admit..... I had no idea that an NDP candidate would do the honours of removing Jaffer. And I must admit, I didn't think Jaffer would marry Guergis the day after the election. I am not Kreskin.......

A good loyal Liberal going down with the captain of the ship. Aye Aye Mate. I still have one life raft left for you come Monday. Nope. Nor is the party that stupid to take him on for anything other then a Platform Monkey. Good guy to joust with, but he is losing his effect. LPC is going to have to dig deeper then Rae. Alot deeper, or be prepared to jump into a hole deeper then the one Dion Dug.

Exactly there are "supporters" from every party in every party, as often people change their political values or their voting intention based upon the current circumstances. Soon Green Voters will be flocking back to the Liberals... or NDP or Conservatives... I think the GPs hit a high watermark, but not enough to impress the media.

The GP invented the wildlife sanctuary park on Cape Breton Island.... oh wait, no, that was done in.... Well I think May lived..... Well, thats nice isn't it? I like Cape Breton and I like Gift shops and I like the Cabot Trail

If you are speaking of Central Nova. The NDP came as close to defeating MacKay as has been possible. Thus 2nd is still the 1st loser. The Libs and Greens after that. However, with the Libs surrending over 10,000 votes by not running a Candidate and NDP voters swallowing the GP Leaders propoganda that she could defeat MacKay, everyone found out after the election how brutal the election results where. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....amp;qpid=352628 Of course the article continues with a very harsh assessment.

Well that is the end of the line for May in Central Nova. The Liberals will run a Candidate next time, and the NDP vote won't likely drift to her again. Particularly because of her poor showing compared to the NDP challenge of 2 years ago, against the Conservative Incumbent and a competent Liberal Campaign not capitulation. Her results being worse then the previous NDP candidate has people talking and wondering what all the noise was. And if she does leave Central Nova, there isn't much there for any GP candidate to ride on. Perhaps the only place with Potential, yet a lower result then in the Provincial election. They went down while running a Pro Nuclear Candidate. I don't expect the LPC to sit on their hands there any longer. Guelph has got to be a major disappointment for Greens. Really not alot of votes for all the hype that they were going to WIN the riding. The Battle was between the LPC and the CPC and the LPC showed its strength as a Brand. OF course this was to be a CPC pickup that didn't happen, and the NDP was written off in Guelph did far better then expected, thus Guelph has the future potential for four party races, which is good for democracy. (Just don't have 74 day campaigns again . The CPC was failing in the By Election and drove home their vote in the National Campaign. A position felt in the Globe and Mail as well.

Ironically the GPs lost 100% of their seat. Yes the only seat they had in order to help manipulate the media into getting them into the debates, was lost. Seems no Liberals or NDP followed this lead and the GP and NDP votes were about equal, while the Liberals were quite strong. However the CPC Vote Grew and the Greens helped split the vote in That Sunshine Riding. At least its a pretty name for a riding. West Vancouver--Sunshine Coast--Sea to Sky Country Just not Green Sea and Sky often looks Blue

I think Dion will stay on as Leader Until Monday.... Federal Liberal Leader in 2009??? Lets see Volpe Back Again... He had those daggers out early. Revenge is best served cold.

You have to be kidding??? This election showed the true strength of the GP. They made the Leaders Debate. They increased their vote. They failed to win a single seat. They tried the strategic voting in Central Nova and proved to be a complete washout for them and their leader. They cost the LPC a number of seats because of Dions foolish endeavour to legitimize a fringe party. If the Greens rose it was not demonstratable in terms of anything. Some people parked their votes with them, but many have no idea what they are voting for besides a nice sounding name. Ironically many people who didn't want to vote Liberal because of Dions Green SHift had no idea that the GP version was the same only harsher. Infact many didn't know that the GPs had a Green Shift and many GP candidates kept that well hidden. I recall a GP candidate hiding their Green SHift and siding with the NDP Cap and Trade. Had to laugh, they could pull out two policies yet hide the bad apple no one was biting. The GPs biggest aid was to the CPC. A vote for the GPs turned out to be a vote for the CPC. Not that the CPC didn't enjoy the mess that May and Dion Made. Truly the alliance was a complete failure. With the NDP CPC and BQ able to focus on real battles, with each other, The Liberals where adrift and the GPs who were polling in the double digits obviously didn't have any real support. Regardless the GPs are going to get some federal bucks for their efforts. I bet the CPC might even increase the figure just to stick it to the LPC a bit. I fully expect the public to rebound in the next election and watch the GPs get taken seriously, which won't be a good thing for them. Me sources tell me the media is pretty tired to trying to legitimize a party that has little reason to be treated legitimately. THe media is completely shocked at how poorly Elizabeth May did in Central Nova. How could she finish with less votes then the NDP Candidate in 2006 who actually ran against Liberals, Conservatives and Greens??? How could the LEADER of the Greens have a lower percentage then the 2006 NDP candidate who nearly offed Peter MacKay??? The failure of strategic voting (an old Liberal Tactic) showed that it takes more then eliminating choice from the electorate. Elizabeth May made people stay home in Central Nova, rather then Vote Green. I guess there is a strategy to sitting on the couch, rather then vote for something you don't want . The Globe and Mail has a good analysis of the GP. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...NStory/politics Not quite a green machine Having set a new record for futility, it's time for the Green Party - and the green movement - to abandon some myths

Bob Rae abandoned NDP economic practices of Tommy Douglas and previous NDP governments... Those figures don't include Tommy Douglas reign of consecutive balanced budgets which would skew the results more. With the information that the LIBERALS run deficits, and are tax and spenders, and that Bob Rae did not behave as an Economic Socialist or CCF/NDP economic fiscal responsibility, lets look at the track record of Mr Silver tongue in denial. The following is a tax and spend liberal using keysenian policy, typical of the Liberal Record....and not typical of the NDP as the data from the Federal Government provides. He increased our taxes and ran a huge deficit. Gotta tell you.... Rae standing up with Dion Promoting the Green Shift and its tax increase while promoting an increase in spending is typical of Rae and I see no change in his economic behaviour. Ironically Jack Laytons Platform had more in common with Paul Martin and no Deficit spending then anything Rae backed in this campaign or his track record. He is a great speaker. And Very Likeable. But he will be crucified by the CPC, NDP and even the GPs. Not a wise choice for leader. At least he has now ran as a Liberal. His arrogance to be the leader of a party where he had no previous membership only demonstrates the level of arrogance this opportunists has. But what a friendly guy and a great speaker.

Iggy.... Rae..... Libs are in big trouble. Easy Pickings these guys. Rae couldn't pull 20 people when he came to one liberal held riding. More reporters then people. Iggy did worse. Rae always was a spend and tax Liberal. The very fact that he stood beside Dion to express his support for the Green SHift shows that he is NOT a Paul Martin Liberal but a Trudeau elitist, as his family roots demonstrate. Silver spoon, silver tongue. Won't get fooled again. Layton and Harper have more in common with Paul Martin Economics then either the intellectual Iggy or the proven failure Rae. I can understand Liberals desperation for a new candidate. It won't be these two guys..... as the next one.

The Greens didn't earn a single seat. The GP leader had it her way in Central Nova and she failed miserably. The Conservatives increased their vote. The NDP increased their seats. The NDP had more voters in each province of BC/ALB/Sask/Man then the Liberals. The Irony being that the NDP had nearly twice the votes of the Liberals in Sask and the Libs got a seat and the NDP didn't. The Liberals were in dreamland all campaign. The Greens talk big, on Bulletin Boards such as this and others and love to spin propoganda better then the CPC. But to think in a System where a Minority Vote can WIN a seat, you have to wonder why the GP can't win a seat with a MINORITY VOTE. Particularly the GIFT in Central Nova where Libs offered all there votes and the NDP voters backed May only to find out her hype and marketing were a FRAUD and that she was nowhere close to Mackay unlike the Previous NDP Candidate. The Greens LOST ground in Central Nova compared to the NDP Candidate of 06. I don't like agreeing with some of the posters on these forums But I have to tell you, the silent Majority, the 93% that some of the other posters are speaking of... rejected the GP and no one, not one GP candidate had the strength to win a seat , in a bi election or general election. All a strong GP candidate would have to do is win a minority of the vote to get in. The GPs even ran a pro nuclear candidate to take a seat from the CPC and couldn't succeed. Nothing like tossing integrity aside to win. Whereas, I have to wonder how the NDP managed to take out Jaffer. (Who I am very pleased to see gone, regardless of who beat him). How did the NDP make a breakthrough in Alberta??? As for systems, they are all fair, and they are different. The NDP would have benefited from a change in the system. But the Playing field is the same for all parties. Progressives, United Farmers, BQ, Reform, CCF, SOcial Credit, Communists, Conservatives, Canadian ALliance, Liberals, Liberal/Conservative, Progressive Conservatives, Independents and many many many many many more have succeeded where the GPs have not, yet continue to cry. I saw no independents with the TV time that May demanded. May played the old boys card, dismissing previous Conservative and NDP female leaders of the Past. I believe the LPC are the only federal Party never to have had a Female Leader. Yet with all the hype, the gifts from the networks, and polling numbers based on the hype as well as federal funding to help the GPs, there isn't alot to be said. The GPs will get more money from our pockets. So the GPs are a bust in political terms. May did not get the 12 seats she claimed she would. May lost the only GP seat gifted to her from a questionable Liberal/independent, and why put your colour on a marked individual? Meanwhile the knives are out for Dion. The Liberals lost this, and their calls for strategic Voting only cost other parties seats, and may have helped the CPC. Same is true for May as Peter MacKay gained votes while she lost ground. Obviously, Harpers Stumble in Quebec was not Exploited by the Libs, GP or even the NDP but was stopped by a resurgent BQ. Thus Harper Lost his Majority, which was coming at the expense of a LPC Meltdown. I expect in the next election, the LPC will get about 10,000 votes back from the Gps in Central Nova alone , by running a local, and the NDP will most likely recover their votes from the failed GP experiment. In the end, in terms of the current parliment and parlimentary system, The winners are the CPC, NDP and BQ and the Losers are the LPC and GP. And the end losers are the Publics out of pocket expenses of $300,000,000..... all for the purpose of feeding Prime Ministers Harpers ego and opportunism. Harper= Marginal Victory Dion= Strategic Loss Ducceppe= Tactical Victory NDP=Marginal/tactical Victory May=Marginal Loss -1 seat. Leader Seatless.

Erm NO regarding the NDP/CCF, and NO again regarding Reform/or its Social Credit roots. Let the GP and LP merge. The PC is a merger of the Conservatives and the Progressives. Todays Conservatives are a merger of the Reform and the Progressive Conservatives. So they must be Centrist too? Maybe all the parties should merge...... Except the NDP

Televison made a mistake allowing a fringe party with no track record to be part of the debate. That said, everyone involved including Harper, Layton, Dion, Duceppe, and the Networks all allowed the GP leader a chance on national TV to make their case. She did. They received no seats as a result.

The Liberals Collapsed............ ....a Harper Majority appears to have been stopped by the NDP and a resurgent BQ. The GPs pretty much were bust. The GP leader faired worse. Curiously the Previous NDP Candidate of 06 received More Votes then Elizabeth May did in08 and the NDP Candidate had to contend with a Solid Liberal Campaign in 06. 2006 NDP Candidate 13861 Against all parties 2008 GP LEADER 12,620 With Liberal Capitulation. In the end 300 million spent for nothing. An angry population, disenchanted with government and not interested in voting. What a waste. For the LPC an GP I see DEBT. Lots of DEBT> Don't know about the other 3 but I believe the CPC had a huge war chest.

There will be two and only two. Duceppe is done after this one. Dion is done if the CPC gets a Majority or Minority. Harper is on shakey ground with another minority or loss of government. The NDP has not been a party to usher out their leader regardless of the outcome.

Committed Voters - Quebec (N=214, MoE ± 6.8%, 19 times out of 20) BQ 31% (-9) Conservative Party 25% (+2) Liberal Party 24% (+2) NDP 13% (+8) Green Party 7% (-2) (*Note: Undecided 14%) What the above numbers show me, is that the NDP who have had virtually no prescence in Quebec, have been on a steady climb, actually surpassing the GPs. They used be less then 1% because there really hadn't been a party base within the Province. I see BQ voters parking their vote with the NDP. Perhaps these numbers will stick, perhaps not. As someone mentioned the BQ are difficult to count out. Exactly.

I recall an industry where the new US owner decided it would be cheaper to send out a product not heat treated and take their chances because they were running behind on a product that they had no capacity to produce on lines running fullout 24/7. Pure suicidal decision making from short sighted bottomline feeders. While this could result in a defective product, these kinds of decisions are deadly/catastrophic when its food, childrens toys or Nuclear related industries.

If you don't have the depth, you shouldn't govern. Nor is it likely for the NDP to assume those reigns federally, like they have done Provincially. Like Any Party they have had success and failure governing, the worst of those often thinking they can lead the LPC without ever holding a membership or simply running from their failures as leaders into the arms of the Federal LPC. Perfect arrogance for the arrogant party. Lately the CPC have shown a degree of stubborness that challenges any party to work with them including the LPC regardless of how ineffectual they are as an opposition. The CPC wasn't as effective an opposition party as was the Reform or BQ and the NDP hadn't been an effective opposition throughout most of the 90s because it is hard to be effective with 9 MPs. The NDP is an effective opposition, including when the LPC are in power or the CPC. Both parties having their difficulties with a minority parliment. I think Harper is making a Martin like mistake, after wandering around the donut shops. (My favourite place for shop talk). And some argue that Pat Martin, and Peter Stoffer are to far to the right. I like Stoffer and think he is better dealing with Military issues then the CPC blowhards who con the public. Ships with no fuel and better treatment of our personell coming back from Afghanistan as well as proper treatment for our veterans is what I like about him. All Parties have their left and their rights and all those voices in between, the Liberatarians and Freedom minded individuals who dislike government control of their lives. All Parties have their Ken Dryden types (who might have been the best choice for LPC leader to challenge the CPC) and hold off the parties on the left of the LPC. People might believe him. Not enough parties have people with the focus that Preston Manning had. He never took his eye off the ball for short term political points. He lead an effective opposition. Meanwhile their are some guys I like that appear to get things done for the better of the country. I like Jim Prentice from what I have seen of him. VS Party hacks that defend all policy of the parties and all the stupid stuff leaders and MPs say. And then you run for Leadership of the MLPC and free Manitoba from the communist hordes