KrustyKidd

Take the anti US remarks out of this thread and you will realise that if this country had been run properly with the same level of military expenditures we should have done a lot better. The US spends 400 billion and we spend 10. Where is the remaining thirty billion dollars?

I know I will. Thaks for the tip.

Yes you are right. However, right now this religion is the base for today's violence. To me and my family, a Spanish Inquisition that occured centuries ago is far less dangerous than Wahabbiism is today. You can point here and there but the past, while instructive, is the past and is not here right now trying to kill us.

I would imagine so. If their intention was to stay then they certainly would not go through all the pain in the butt efforts to build a democracy. Instead they would have just gone the simpler, less violent and inexpensive route by just installing their own evil - US friendly dictator from day one. The streets would be quiet and the only loser would be Saddam. The winners would be the US and the new evil dictator. That is not what they are doing though is it? All parties from the most radical Islamist to the Soldier getting shot at agree that they will get out. The problem is what is going to be left when they do. Will it be a warlord ruled chaos like the miltants want? A religious thocracy like the Islamists want? A same old - same old dictatorship like the former regeime members want or a democracy like every American and Iraqi wants? Incidently the oil contracts so far have mainly gone to European interests. Ender, in the world of business people sell a product for what it is worth. It matters not who the buyer is, what color they are or what religion. The only thing that matters is if they are paying the going price. Oil is sold on the world market on an exchange similar to the stock market. If the US pays the going rate then they will have oil. If they do not then they will not. It's really quite simple.

Bush, I'm off for a few days. However, when I take off again would it help you if I documented the EXACT PLACES THAT WERE HIREING for more than $12 an hour to unskilled people? Would that change your view any on job shortages? Let me know and I will. I won't bother if it you won't consider any of it though but will want to know why you don't want to hear the situation from the ground where the average American is.

I have no idea wher the unemployment is in the states. Wherever I go to they are sceaming for people to work. Maybe the average person doesn't know they are supposed to quit their job and start looking. Maybe for university types but for the minimum wage factory guys it is unbelieveable. As well, most of the stuff me and my guys are hauling is non survival related things like file cabinets, cable, aluminum, fibreboard for furniture and things like that. Another point, housing sales and starts are record high in the states, what goes into new houses? Nothing or lots of things like products manufactured by working people? Truely you have a gift for rhetoric Craig. This, however is not the mindlless type usually posted but such a strong and correct utterence I have not heard in a long time. Through the need for aid these people have reached out to the west via terrorism and goons subsequently amplifying their need for help. They have forced our hand and when sucessful we can show the poor of the world that democracy works better than oppression and torture. That is worth more than buying Sheila Copps a first class ticket to some fat fair anyday. Truely this is a great time to be alive!

Exactly Whistler. So many groups are vying for power that is almost unfathomable. Each has it's own dreams of superiority and none are of the average Iraqi. If sucessful in driving the US out you can be sure of one thing; THE VIOLENCE HAS JUST BEGUN. This is why the US must win this war.

And what needs to happen is that the third world nations have to get rid of this notion that they can have access to modern means of detsruction while not adopting modern thological respect for life. Pre Medival Power Mongers have no place in a world that seeks humanity. That, my friend is why they must be shut down. US, UN or thier own good graces, the stakes are too high now. If you think the US is sent by God or they think they are, you are wrong. They are only dealing with common sense. It is the radical that is sent by God. You can stop them I am sure by e mailing some protests. OBL may get them by camelback a few months from now but I'm sure he is listening.

By "they" do you mean the minute amount of headline grabbing antagonists that carry out these acts of violence against a government (Iraqi Ruling Council formed by the US to effect a transition to a Legitimate Iraqi Government) or do you mean the average Iraqi who is so out of touch with anything other than violence and terror to be not be able to recognize a benevolent government if it ran over them? As for forcing a Democracy, cut us some slack. Once the US leaves then they can chose to adopt the way of life they please. If given that chance I highly doubt it will be Torture by Dictator as you seem to infer.

Where do I have the examples? None of these ensure that one and a half billion Muslims are living in poverty other than their own government's making. Please connect the dots to that rather than tell me that Henry Kissenger carried out duties as Secretary of State just as any American would have done. For crying out loud CK, I don't even have anything here I can go with to think about much less argue or agree with. It's not even hypothetical crap, it's ......... nothing. Not even racist rant. You made areal broad and strong statement. There has got to be something, I mean, even if there was a story where Kissenger walked into Saudi Arabia as Secretary of State and said he wanted to eat Arab babies that would still not relate to how Muslims are downtrodden by the Jew today. I need a lot of hard examples with relevence today.

Where do I have the examples? None of these ensure that one and a half million Muslims are living in poverty other than their own government's making. Please connect the dots to that rather than tell me that Henry Kissenger carried out duties as Secretary of State just as any American would have done. For crying out loud CK, I don't even have anything here I can go with to think about much less argue or agree with. It's not even hypothetical crap, it's ......... nothing. Not even racist rant. You made areal broad and strong statement. There has got to be something, I mean, even if there was a story where Kissenger walked into Saudi Arabia as Secretary of State and said he wanted to eat Arab babies that would still not relate to how Muslims are downtrodden by the Jew today. I need a lot of hard examples with relevence today.

CKidd, I'm trying to be as objective as I can here so please don't take me wrong. None of this had anything to do with Mulims or Jews except for the last (East Timor) We have Kissenger (Who is Jewish) doing things on behalf of the US government. OK. Same as if he was a Harikrishna. It has nothing to do with anything for crying out loud! As for the last part (East Timor) we have him, and Ford doing something that allows Muslims to kill Muslims on behalf of Muslims. OK, at least that has all the key elements to everything. A Jew, an American and Muslims dying. Then it also has Muslims winning so still we are at sqauare one, where is the conspiracy?

Thank you for that CK. How does this relate to oppressing Mulims? It seems to me that this group were trying to stop Muslims and Christians from killing each other. Muslims should love them for that. As well, the Jew was part of the group who was trying to save Muslim lives. Last, is this a bombshell and the main reason why Muslims feel they are downtrodden by the Jew? There must be more meat than this (not that this is even anything.)

Sorry Lonius. It was not a meandering interoggitive post. It was a point by point quote and relpy to CKNY Kid's. As for Kissenger, duh. Yes, I have heard the name mentioned once or twice in passing and after reading his memoirs and knowing the effect he has had on the 20th century I admire the man greatly however would take exception to your infference that he had a nefarious plan to propegate the Jewish race over his National (USA) interest. As for the "who" in the post, maybe you could go back and check it out to see the context in which the "who" is used and to what statement of CKNY kid's it is whoing.

Or Hilter, Jeffry Dahlmer, Jac Chirac, John Cretien or some smelly guy on a donkey in the mountains with a three month old grainy cassette tape of OBL. What kind of an argument is that?

If I was religious I might want to have 24/7 access to a bible or a picture of the Pope or whatever. If I was not religious I wouldn't care. If I was just trivial I would not want to ever see a bible and; If I was a meddling, trivial, no cause wanna be activist I would fight fights that I could win, not ones that made sense or that mattered.l Like, save a whale man, to some people this matters, is it really that big of an easy win that you have to deny some old person or parents that have a sick child some comfort? That is not trivial, that is evil.

CKNY Kid, I nearly wore out my finger hitting the quotaton mark key in order to respond but I have a lot of questions. It seems that by the US helping Israel (who has been a stable and democratic friend in an area where there is nothing but despots and instability) this is taken as being a Jewish Lacky. Britain helps Australia and the US also helps South Korea just for two examples. What is wrong with being a friend? Most of your post is about Arabs doing to each other what they collectively would like to do to Israel. I didn't bother to round up questions by catagory but would appreciate it if you could pick a few and go into more depth about how the Jew is putting the boots to Malaysia and Indonesia. Maybe go into Somalia or Lybia as well. It should be easy to find concrete evidence instead of the inuendo "outsiders" and "proxy" I mean, this is a world wide conspiracy right? “Today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them. Few examples”] “1949: Outsiders back military coup deposing elected government of Syria.” Jewish outsiders? Who and why? “1953: Outsiders help overthrow the democratically elected Mossadeq government in Iran (which had nationalized the British oil company) leading to a quarter century of repressive and dictatorial rule by the Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlevi.” Jewiosh outsiders? Who and why? “1956: Israel, Britain, and France invade Egypt. U.S. does not support invasion, but the involvement of its NATO allies severely diminishes Washington's reputation in the region.” Make up your mind, here the Jews are engaging themselves and the US is out. “1958: U.S. troops land in Lebanon to preserve "stability" So the Arabs don’t slaughter each other and continue to attack Israel.. I would imagine that Jews would love the opposite; to watch Arabs decimate each other. “1963: U.S. supports coup by Iraqi Ba'ath party (soon to be headed by Saddam Hussein) and reportedly gives them names of communists to murder, which they do with vigor.” And how does this help the Jew? “1970: Civil war between Jordan and PLO. Israel and U.S. discuss intervening on side of Jordan if Syria backs PLO.” Well, here we have the Jew trying to help his Arab brother. “1973: Airlifted U.S. military aid enables Israel to turn the tide in war with Syria andEgypt.” Of course, nobody denies Israel being helped by the US. After all, it is the only democracy in the Middle East. You would prefer to see them vanish? “1973 75: Outsiders supports Kurdish rebels in Iraq. When Iran reaches an agreement with Iraq in 1975 and seals the border, Iraq slaughters Kurds and U.S. denies them refuge. Kissinger secretly explains that "covert action should not be confused with missionary work." And this helps the Jew by? “1975: U.S. vetoes Security Council resolution condemning Israeli attacks on Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon.” I would assume that Israel did this to just kill people or maybe kill the terrorists that attacked them then hide in these camps “1978 79: Iranians begin demonstrations against the Shah. U.S. tells Shah it supports him "without reservation" and urges him to act forcefully. Until the last minute, U.S. tries to organize military coup to save the Shah, but to no avail.” And the Jew benifits from this by? “1979 88: U.S. begins covert aid to Mujahideen in Afghanistan six months before Soviet invasion in Dec. 1979. Over the next decade U.S. provides training and more than $3 billion in arms and aid” And this helps the Jew by? “1980 88: Iran Iraq war. When Iraq invades Iran, the U.S. opposes any Security Council action to condemn the invasion. U.S. soon removes Iraq from its list of nations supporting terrorism and allows U.S. arms to be transferred to Iraq. At the same time, U.S. lets Israel provide arms to Iran and in 1985" So here we have a situation where the Jew is helping his Arab brother “U.S. provides arms directly (though secretly) to Iran. U.S. provides intelligence information to Iraq. Iraq uses chemical weapons in 1984; “ “U.S. restores diplomatic relations with Iraq. 1987 U.S. sends its navy into the Persian Gulf, taking Iraq's side; an overly aggressive U.S. ship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290.” Once again, here we have the US helping an Arab country and this has what to do with the Jew screwing the Arab? “1982: U.S. gives "green light" to Israeli invasion of Lebanon, killing some 17 thousand civilians.10 U.S. chooses not to invoke its laws prohibiting Israeli use of U.S. weapons except in self defense. U.S. vetoes several Security Council resolutions condemning the invasion.” It would also seem that the US was an equal opportunity "green lighter" as they also were seen to have given a green light for Saddam to invade his Arab bretheren in Iran and Kuwait. Israel invaded because it was being attacked by the PLO from Lebanon. That is not expansionism but protecting yourself. “1983: U.S. troops sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational peacekeeping force; intervene on one side of a civil war, including bombardment by USS New Jersey. Withdraw after suicide bombing of marine barracks.” And this of course helped the Jew by trying to stop Arabs from slaughtering each other. It would seem that peace in Lebanon would benifit everybody “1984: U.S. backed rebels in Afghanistan fire on civilian airliner.” Ahh, Jewish rebels right? And this has what to do with Jewish oppression of Indonesia’s Muslim? “1987-92: U.S. arms used by Israel to repress first Palestinian Intifada. U.S. vetoes five Security Council resolution condemning Israeli repression.” “1988: Saddam Hussein kills many thousands of his own Kurdish population and uses chemical weapons against them. The U.S. increases its economic ties to Iraq.” And this has what to do with Jewish oppresion of the Arab? “1988: U.S. vetoes 3 Security Council resolutions condemning continuing Israeli occupation of and repression in Lebanon.” “1991 : Devastating economic sanctions are imposed on Iraq. U.S. and Britain block all attempts to lift them. Hundreds of thousands die. Though Security Council had stated that sanctions were to be lifted once Saddam Hussein's programs to develop weapons of mass destruction were ended, Washington makes it known that the sanctions would remain as long as Saddam remains in power. Sanctions in fact strengthen Saddam's position. Asked about the horrendous human consequences of the sanctions, Madeleine Albright (U.S. ambassador to the UN and later Secretary of State) declares that "the price is worth it” And once again, this has more to do with protection of Iraq’s neigbors than the Jew. World oil prices would skyrocket if Saddam held Kuwait and took Saudi Arabia. Remember all the Arabs getting together to wring hands and try to find “an Arab solution?” “1991-: U.S. forces permanently based in Saudi Arabia. “ I suppose you are going to try and say this was part of an Israeli incursion into SA? As well, you should change the permanent into temporary as they are no longer there “998: U.S. and U.K. bomb Iraq over the issue of weapons inspections, even though Security Council is just then meeting to discuss the matter.” And this has what to do with the Jew? “998: U.S. destroys factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical supply, claiming retaliation for attacks on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya and that factory was involved in chemical warfare. Evidence for the chemical warfare charge widely disputed.” And once again this has what to do with the Jew? CKNY Kid. Yopu seem to have confused the US wanting to promote stabilisation throughout the world with Jewish expansionism. Please draw more of a connection to how these Jews are doing something nefarious. All I see here is the US refusing to let primitive people with modern means of destruction go to hell in a hand basket.

CKNY, I am not stupid. I am not very receptive to ranting or rhetoric. Facts and reason are the only things that are going to win me over. I am not trying to be difficult, I am quite receptive to the two afore mentioned things. Not being familiar with any big Jewish conspiracy I await you to spell it out for me piece by factual piece. Name dropping and inuendos will not cut it. You said the Jews are running the Arabs into the ground or running the world or something like that. Report facts, not what you suspect. OK, I'm ready to hear and understand. Which Islamic countries were subject to his evil plans? Remember, don't bother to cite the Palistinian/Israeli problem. That is theirs and thiers alone. It is the rest of Islamic society we are talking about.

We all know that Israelis/Jews have difficulties with Palestinians. I thought I made it clear that my question was about a WORLDWIDE Jewish conspiracy. Jews and Palestinians can fight and terrorize each other until the cows come home, the Malaysian PM's comments were directed at the Jews who oppress him and his people. How do they do that? Your post is invalid as it only adresses issues that are applicable to Palestinians and Americans. We all know Palestinians are oppressed. So are the Israeli women and children who die by suicide bombers. This was not the question. Americans may be oppressed but they were not the ones speaking at the Islamic confrerence and complaining. It was the Islamic societies of the world whom you did not even give a glancing comment. Please adress that. Thanks.

Some just view it as a mental exersise Ned. They challenge the legality of things and the human rights violations of people in GitMo that they know want to kill them. I will reiterate what said before; America will probably allow enough time to elapse to get it's civiliians and representatives home then unleash a very culturally insensitive total bombing of the country that harbored the people who attacked it. If they are wrong there will be no appoligies and they will move to the next most likely suspect. In the meantime those who protest will have little means to do so as they will be under martial law here at home with no internet and only state fed news. Land of the free will have been transformed into cage of the tiger overnight. And nobody will be able to blame them for it Everybody at the Un will be wondering what the hell they can do to get home as airports close down and police the world over have barricades up everywhere. Lots of fun. Left and Right become confused as imaginary terrorists are reported comming out of anything .and everywhere. People are arrested for the smallest thing. A new Islamic country with terrorist roots, an angry anti US population for leaving them at the hands of fundementalists and ties two terrorist supporting nations on either side. This is the alternative to failure in Iraq.

No, not proof of him being a stategic threat but remember the nieghborhood. Third rate armies, rations delivered in a series of dump trucks (seen it with my own eyes) one has turnips, next has carrots, next has bottles of water and so on. Armies equipped with Korean war era weapons. It doesn't take much of an edge to be more powerful than your neighbors. That was what Saddam sought. He had no illusions of taking over Texas militarilly. The things I quoted were all weapons he was forbidden to have and that he had said over nad over he did not have. Blix couldn't find any of it. So far they have found in the forbidden (and justification for war) missile programs beyond 150 km, nuclear programs still in progress, chemical programs still in progress and these. Nothing like being caught naked with the farmers daughter but ishowing enough intent that we all know he didn't give a damm about any or all resolutions. Wonder what he would have done next when the US had left? Turned everything in to the UN?

Hi Lonius, I know that so many place blame on both sides in the Palestinian Israeli conflict that I considered that moot in this discussion. There is so much ammo to throw that it completely clouds both sides opinions so I have simply adopted the present in this situation. Facts are facts and Israel is not going anywhere. However it is dealt with is the problem of those involved. To the present thread though; My question was how is the Jew oppressing those unrelated Islamic people, people that are far removed from Israel? I mean, Indonesia has no borders with Israel. How is the Jew trying to put them down? How is the Jew responsible for poverty in their country?

I came across this a few minutes ago. You people have probably seen it but I never did. It's a note found in one of the hijacker's cars.'

Tripped over this article probably just like these guys tripped over the weapons LOL. This is everyday stuff to Kay and his crew in Iraq. No French connection? LOL, I won't even try to make anybody like the left eat any words. This kind of stuff just keeps on comming out of the woodwork. I'll dig up the hundreds of Al Queda that were training in Iraq in a few minutes.